Combat maneuver as attack of opportunity


Rules Questions


can you trip, sunder, drag, grapple or such with an attack of opportunity?
It is an attack, and has full BAB?


Attacks of Opportunity

Combat Maneuvers

d20pfsrd.com wrote:
While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action.

Yep! Although there may be limitations on which maneuvers are available... Don't recall exactly.


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Gruuuu wrote:

Attacks of Opportunity

Combat Maneuvers

d20pfsrd.com wrote:
While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action.
Yep! Although there may be limitations on which maneuvers are available... Don't recall exactly.

If you need to take a standard action to do it (such as grapple and drag), then no. If it's instead of an attack (such as trip and disarm), then yes.

Sunder's up in the air - there's people who will argue both sides of that question.


Gruuuu wrote:
Yep! Although there may be limitations on which maneuvers are available... Don't recall exactly.

You may disarm or trip as an attack of opportunity - read the description for each, and unlike other combat maneuvers they only specify "in place of a melee attack." All others either specify that they are standard actions or a part of an attack action (an AoO is "not an action.")

A note on trips: Don't trip as an AoO if the AoO was provoked by a creature standing from prone. The AoO happens BEFORE the provoking action, so the creature will still be on the ground when the trip occurs, making the trip useless.

Edit: Ninja'd! Did I really take 13 minutes to type that out?


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Yeah, you disarm them when they try to stand up, and then trip them when they try to pick up their weapon.. repeat repeat repeat >D
Ah, dirty trip builds...

Lantern Lodge

On page 180 of the Core Rulebook it states "Making an Attack of Opportunity: An attack of opoportunity is a single melee attack..."

On page 199 of the Core Rulebook under disarm: "You can attempt to disarm your oppontent in place of a melee attack."

On page 201 under trip: "You can attempt to trip your opponent in place of a melee attack."

Also on page 201 under sunder: "You can attempt to sunder an item held or worn by your opponent as part of an attack action in place of a melee attack."

The way these read to me is that you can disarm and trip with attacks of opportunity, but not sunder. I think sunder is worded as it is so you know that if you use the full attack action you can use it on any number of your attacks, but since it's an attack action it has to be on your turn.

Is sunder with attacks of opporunity debatable as someone mentioned?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Sunder uses the Attack Action, which is a specific type of Standard Action. So you can't use it with AoO's, or with a full-attack or charge.

Some believe it was meant to be like disarm or trip and the usage of the Attack Action was basically a typo.

Lantern Lodge

Maneuvers such as bull rush and overrun specifically state they are standard actions and sunder is just an attack action. Full attacks and charges are still attack actions so sunder should work in both of these cases.


Just remember that using a combat maneuver as an AoO may also initiate an AoO from your target which should come before your AoO.


ForeverADM wrote:

can you trip, sunder, drag, grapple or such with an attack of opportunity?

It is an attack, and has full BAB?

Oh yeah! As long as its an "Attack" not a standard action.

I love using this when the AC 30 PC's says "yeah sure I'll take the A.O., like there going to hit!" Then I say "Ok, so whats your CMB vs Trip?" muhahahaha!


Note there are ways to attach maneuvers to a normal attack and damage routine. Shield Slam, improved grab, the Knockdown and Knockback rage powers (not normal damage, but same idea), etc...

Such options would let you use normally standard action maneuvers on an AoO as well.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Rendrin wrote:
Full attacks and charges are still attack actions

No, they're not.

The "attack action" is a standard action used to make a single attack.

A full attack uses the "full-attack action", which is a type of full-round action used to make multiple attacks.

A charge is a special full-round action as well.

As full attacks and charges are both full-round actions, they are different than an attack action, which is always a standard action.


And there are several feats in UC which make even drag, reposition and other maneuvers available for AoOs. Quicken -insert maneuver here- makes them able to be used anytime you can make an attack. It's pure gold, especially for bullrush/dirty trick. Sure you can run by me, but you're blind ... and fall prone or stop to clear it.

Lantern Lodge

After a lot of research I finally found the clarification I was looking for here. On Aug 19, 2009 Jason Bulmahn made two posts ( here & here ) where he states "An attack action is a type of standard action". This means that sunder can only be used, without some special feat or ability stating otherwise, as a standard action to make a single break attempt.

During my research I found discussions all over the place about people misunderstanding the term "attack action" and only two places did I find some official response that answers it, neither of those in a FAQ. The problem is word association: a wagon and a covered wagon are still both wagons and so people see attack action and full-attack action and assume that they are both attack actions because they both say attack action much like wagon and covered wagon both say wagon.

Another large point of confusion for people in the messageboards is on page 57 of the Core Rulebook where it states "A monk may subsitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows." This is the only place where that association between the three combat maneuvers exists because of the wording of sunder and Mr. Bulmahn's clarification of the "attack action".


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Sorry to necro, just putting this here for future internet searchers:

sunder is meant to be just like trip and disarm, usable during full-attack and AoO's

FAQ

As an aside, those three maneuvers (trip, disarm, and sunder) are also the three that use your weapon and as such allow weapon finesse (regardless of agile maneuvers), enhancement bonuses, weapon focus, etc. to CMB

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