jreyst |
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First, Ogre has made clear in the past he doesn't like either me, or the site, or both but it doesn't matter. Here's the deal...
Second, thanks Ogre for making the content more known than it would otherwise have been. You've effectively done the reverse, I think, of what you wanted to do. Now many more people know about that content/area than before. Great job.
Third, we begin working on formatting new content as soon as we receive a PDF. In some cases it takes us a great deal of time to get it all done, especially in the case of larger books like the Bestiaries. We have to put the stuff we're working on somewhere and given that its in "collaborators > work area" that's where stuff goes until its ready to be made "generally" available. Google Sites, which is what we use for hosting the content, does not AT THIS TIME have page level permissions. There is no way to lock down specific portions of the site. It's either ALL open or not at all open. My contacts at Google inform me that Page-Level Permissions are *imminent* and as soon as the feature is rolled out, you can bet we will be locking down the work area.
Fourth, no publisher, not Paizo, nor any other 3rd Party Publisher has asked us one time to delay posting their content. IN FACT, some 3rd Party Publishers have SPECIFICALLY asked us to post their content AS SOON AS WE CAN because it helps drive interest in their product. HOWEVER, way back in Pathfinder RPG Beta days Jason and the guys asked us to delay posting content for at least 2 weeks from the time they release it. At that time the reason given was so they could track the number of downloads they were receiving of the Beta rules. We have SINCE, voluntarily extended that same 2 week delay to all new content, unless specifically asked for a longer or shorter window. Further still, we extend the 2 weeks from the date the content is "street" available, not 2 weeks from when we receive it.
Lastly, it is a fortunate (or unfortunate, depending on how you look at it) side effect of our success that we now can usually blaze through even larger books in a very much shorter amount of time. Having almost 200 volunteers actively collaborating and volunteering their time and energy has really sped this process up. Sometimes we can be 100% complete with a book before the general public has even seen it. However, we still delay posting this content for the 2 weeks we *voluntarily* offer.
So, in closing, I get it. You don't like me/us/the site/whatever. I think you'd have been better off had you not mentioned this though. Perhaps even just email me directly. Its not like my email is hard to find.
Erik Mona Chief Creative Officer, Publisher |
jreyst |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
We at Paizo appreciate the 2-week "delay" that d20pfsrd gives to our new products, and we appreciate the service the site provides to the community.
We have no beef with the site whatsoever.
Thanks Erik. Truly appreciated and you know I'm always open to adjusting the delay period as long as you guys want. All ya gots to do is say the word :)
Mahorfeus |
Mahorfeus wrote:I take it that this isn't the standard procedure for adding new source material to the site?it's a fan site, not a paizo site.
I know. I was raising the point that if this is the way new content is usually added to the site, then why is Ogre complaining? Though from what has been said, he just doesn't seem to like the site.
0gre |
0gre wrote:I don't think he said 'it is secret', he said 'it is less visible'. So all you have done is make it MORE visible.
If you make something public on the internet it's public. Saying "But it's a secret" is total BS.
I think it's hard to say that when it's already linked in what is likely to be one of the more long winded debates in the rules forum.
But clearly if it's cool with Erik it's an overreaction on my part.
Pale |
Nah, it's an overreaction on your part no matter what.
They aren't reproducing the fluff or presentation, they legally can't, they're just putting the crunch up for reference. No big deal. Plus, they won't be nearly done with the project before the first printing of the book is sold out at your FLGS.
If anyone is using the material in D20PFSRD in lieu of buying a copy of the book, I can assure you that they were never going to purchase a copy of the book.
d20pfsrd.com Beastmaster |
To look at d20pfsrd as only a resource for new material is doing both the site and yourself a disservice. We strive to offer so much more than that. We provide free conversions of older Pathfinder material, statistics for variant creatures (like all dragons), new tools (like the spellcard generator), an errata database, and access to third party material that many would never otherwise see (like psionics!). All in a handy website you can access anywhere - very helpful if you forgot to bring a book to your weekly game (who hasn't done that?).
And a final note on posting new creatures from new books - I don't think you have to worry about that anytime soon. I'm still trying to clean up creatures from Kingmaker for posting...though keep an eye peeled for the Blodeuwedd Queen, a variant creature mentioned in AP 33. It's been statted out, and is under review. Should have that one up soon!
For those of you who support the site, thank you. For those of you who have reservations about the site, please give us another try. You might find a diamond in that rough.
Thanks,
Brett
d20pfsrd.com Beastmaster
Drogon Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds |
If anyone is using the material in D20PFSRD in lieu of buying a copy of the book, I can assure you that they were never going to purchase a copy of the book.
Very true. I point people at the SRD all the time. It's pretty easy to tell when someone has no real intention of buying the book they're looking at, and I make my life easier by telling them where they can get what they want for free. That way they don't damage any of my stock or have to feel guilty for trying to memorize stuff. Plus, I think the SRD has actually sold a lot of books for me. They get to test drive it before they buy it, so to speak, and that seals the deal.
jreyst |
...That way they don't damage any of my stock or have to feel guilty for trying to memorize stuff. Plus, I think the SRD has actually sold a lot of books for me. They get to test drive it before they buy it, so to speak, and that seals the deal.
Drogon - I didn't know you were a store owner. It's nice to hear from sellers who have an opinion one way or another about any impact the site has on sales. Obviously its better hearing you think its a positive impact. That does genuinely make me feel that we're HELPING expand the PFRPG market, not diminishing it, or reducing the amount of $$$ going to publishers. Thanks for your input.
Drogon Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds |
It's nice to hear from sellers who have an opinion one way or another about any impact the site has on sales. Obviously its better hearing you think its a positive impact. That does genuinely make me feel that we're HELPING expand the PFRPG market, not diminishing it, or reducing the amount of $$$ going to publishers. Thanks for your input.
I think the only way to harm sales of a product like this is to do what Wizards did and create an "Official" online character builder that costs money to use. Why would anyone buy D&D books when they're already spending money on something that gives them every single rule they need in a drop down menu?
If you ever get to that point, you'll lose my support. Otherwise, keep up the good work. Though you could speed up conversions of Paizo's 3.5 products (;
Beckman |
We at Paizo appreciate the 2-week "delay" that d20pfsrd gives to our new products, and we appreciate the service the site provides to the community.
We have no beef with the site whatsoever.
FYI, The presence of this site has not affected my decision to buy Ultimate Magic in any way.. I have the hardcopy ordered, and the PDF will be ordered as soon as it comes out. I am glad that a site like PFSRD exists, and it's valuable to me as a customer.
Sylvanite |
Erik Mona wrote:FYI, The presence of this site has not affected my decision to buy Ultimate Magic in any way.. I have the hardcopy ordered, and the PDF will be ordered as soon as it comes out. I am glad that a site like PFSRD exists, and it's valuable to me as a customer.We at Paizo appreciate the 2-week "delay" that d20pfsrd gives to our new products, and we appreciate the service the site provides to the community.
We have no beef with the site whatsoever.
+1
Agreed.
Snorter |
Third, we begin working on formatting new content as soon as we receive a PDF. In some cases it takes us a great deal of time to get it all done, especially in the case of larger books like the Bestiaries. We have to put the stuff we're working on somewhere and given that its in "collaborators > work area" that's where stuff goes until its ready to be made "generally" available. Google Sites, which is what we use for hosting the content, does not AT THIS TIME have page level permissions. There is no way to lock down specific portions of the site. It's either ALL open or not at all open. My contacts at Google inform me that Page-Level Permissions are *imminent* and as soon as the feature is rolled out, you can bet we will be locking down the work area.
While the site does not have page-level permissions, would it be possible to have a mirror of the site, for contributors only, with different passwords?
They can start work on formatting the conversions earlier, and only port over the content at street date (or later).
0gre |
@jreyst/ d20PFSRD Crew
I'm not sure what possessed me to use the wording that I did but it was way off base and I apologize for that. I still think there is a legitimate concern buried in there but after John's initial post I realized that we really see eye to eye on this and I just jumped to a stupid conclusion. Ultimately, I should have just emailed John with my concerns.
Wrong tone, Wrong venue, just Wrong in a lot of ways. Which is why after my initial post (and one which I deleted) I pretty much shut up and figured this thread would die a quiet death.
If a moderator could lock this thread I would appreciate it because it doesn't really serve anyone well. Also... the original post violates the "Don't be a jerk" guideline.
Anburaid |
@jreyst/ d20PFSRD Crew
I'm not sure what possessed me to use the wording that I did but it was way off base and I apologize for that. I still think there is a legitimate concern buried in there but after John's initial post I realized that we really see eye to eye on this and I just jumped to a stupid conclusion. Ultimately, I should have just emailed John with my concerns.
Wrong tone, Wrong venue, just Wrong in a lot of ways. Which is why after my initial post (and one which I deleted) I pretty much shut up and figured this thread would die a quiet death.
If a moderator could lock this thread I would appreciate it because it doesn't really serve anyone well. Also... the original post violates the "Don't be a jerk" guideline.
Just want to say, I respect you for this response. Not a lot of people own up to their mistakes these days. I wish more people did as you have done.
Owen K. C. Stephens |
While I think this issue has pretty well settled itself (And WOW is that rare on game forums nowadays!!), I wanted to post the following, only because a few fans have asked me about the site and it's use of some SGG material, and pointed me to this thread. So, just for the record:
We at Super Genius Games appreciate the 2-week "delay" that d20pfsrd gives to our new products, and we appreciate the service the site provides to the community.
We have no beef with the site whatsoever.
(And thanks to Erik for creating such nice wording for me to steal!)