No halflings! Drat! :(
Will we get to see more previews?
Looks good!
Just a matter of curiosity about the thought process that went into it; Not to criticize, but why use Rolling for character creation?
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Doing it as a subscription product means those people get free PDF and the people who don't want it...unsubscribe.
I would like to add one counter argument to this wide spread statement. I have been a subscriber since the beginning of Pathfinder and even if I am really glad each time I get a new shipment, I hardly come on the site to see news and upcoming products anymore.
Paizo has done a very good job with their product line since the beginning, to the extent that I now felt fully confortable in trusting them with my subscriptions. I felt confident I would find monthly new products I want every month in the mail without needing to come here and micro-manage my shipemnts/subscriptions. I think it has been a good 6 months since I had last visited here, until recently when I had a problem with one of my received books and wanted to order some additional products. Had it not been for this fortuitous timing, I would probably have gone many more months before coming back here.
What does that mean? Yes, cancelling/resubscribing is all easy and available and easy and available and easy (repetition is voluntary), but the problem remains. I could have ended up not having any idea this product was coming and would not have had time to cancel it before being charged the extra customs/taxes by the mail delivery cie.
So my final question is this: What about trusting customers who will not see this coming? What about customers who will find themselves with a surprise $50+ extra customs/taxes (on top of the already expensive item price and shipping) to pay for a product that is more or less related and useful to them?
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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What about trusting customers who will not see this coming? What about customers who will find themselves with a surprise $50+ extra customs/taxes (on top of the already expensive item price and shipping) to pay for a product that is more or less related and useful to them?
Djoc, your argument makes sense, and is probably the most coherent one I have heard for not including this product in the Subscription. I personally am looking forward to this item, but I can see how the final price could come as a big shock for someone who isn't expecting it. Do you think it would help if Paizo sent out an email, say, a month before the product comes out, explaining the potential issues with shipping and/or customs and directing users to unsubscribe/resubscribe if they wish?
Even if they only did so for international customers (who would be hardest hit by shipping and taxes), I think that would be a good move from a customer-service standpoint.
So my final question is this: What about trusting customers who will not see this coming? What about customers who will find themselves with a surprise $50+ extra customs/taxes (on top of the already expensive item price and shipping) to pay for a product that is more or less related and useful to them?
So do you not even read the e-mail they send that says: We are about to ship X to you for price Y plus Z shipping? You would have about a week at that time to contact customer service to change your order.
I understand that international customers have strange shipping and customs requirements. But I can say that if I were an international customer I would be paying attention to what each monthly shipment's postage is going to cost. If a larger box is required I'd be tossing in extra items to maximize my product per shipment. Actually, I do that anyway to top off orders that are close, but not quite over $100.
Chief Technical Officer
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Just a matter of curiosity about the thought process that went into it; Not to criticize, but why use Rolling for character creation?
I think it's easier to understand and explain than point buys... plus it's how most of us built our first characters. And dice are fun!
Doing it as a subscription product means those people get free PDF and the people who don't want it...unsubscribe.
I would like to add one counter argument to this wide spread statement. I have been a subscriber since the beginning of Pathfinder and even if I am really glad each time I get a new shipment, I hardly come on the site to see news and upcoming products anymore.
Paizo has done a very good job with their product line since the beginning, to the extent that I now felt fully confortable in trusting them with my subscriptions. I felt confident I would find monthly new products I want every month in the mail without needing to come here and micro-manage my shipemnts/subscriptions. I think it has been a good 6 months since I had last visited here, until recently when I had a problem with one of my received books and wanted to order some additional products. Had it not been for this fortuitous timing, I would probably have gone many more months before coming back here.
What does that mean? Yes, cancelling/resubscribing is all easy and available and easy and available and easy (repetition is voluntary), but the problem remains. I could have ended up not having any idea this product was coming and would not have had time to cancel it before being charged the extra customs/taxes by the mail delivery cie.
So my final question is this: What about trusting customers who will not see this coming? What about customers who will find themselves with a surprise $50+ extra customs/taxes (on top of the already expensive item price and shipping) to pay for a product that is more or less related and useful to them?
This cohort also have to ignore their "This product is about to ship..." email (since it's still not too late to cancel it there).
If someone has signed up for an RPG rules subscription without realising that it could potentially include an introductory game and if they dont keep an eye on upcoming releases and if they dont read their email notification that their product is about to ship - they may end up paying a high customs charge which they didnt expect or end up with a product they dont want (as a side note, I really fail to see why an intro set is regarded by some as terribly out of place in this subscription). I dont agree that it's reasonable for Paizo to be looking out for these people (at the expense of other customers) on two grounds:
First, I think if you are signing up for a subscription like the RPG line (which inherently has more variance than the other lines, imo) without vetting each credit card charge, then you are taking a risk that you'll end up with something you dont want or that you'll end up being caught by an unexpected charge. You are free to take that risk, but it's your choice to do so - not Paizo's.
Second, I think the above 'set and forget' cohort is a considerably smaller group than those whose needs Paizo are meeting with the current arrangement. If there was nobody who benefitted from doing it the current way, my argument would be different. My view has always been that there are two competing groups and Paizo have to make a call - there isnt any way to ensure everyone ends up with exactly the process they want. (Note that the 'opt-in' option faces the exact same dilemma you allude to with the 'opt-out' option - namely there may be someone who misses the opportunity who will be just as upset).
I don't think anything is going to please everyone - I havent heard an argument which suggests that there is anything better than the direction Paizo have chosen to go.
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stuff
I don't fully disagree, but I think there will be a relatively large number of subscribers that are not interested in this product. I also think Paizo could anticipate people having reservations about this item more than others in the line of products associated with the subscription.
Most subscibers seem to be interested in the product, but I think it is a slighty more aggressive push to sell/promote their products and honestly I do not mind a single product like this, but the product varies from the other products in the line significantly enough to warrant some discussion.
I subscribe to get the products I will get sooner or later anyway at a discount, this product is the single product sofar I would not be interested in buying and well.. I want Paizo to know that not all established customers are interested in subscribing to this line of products if there is a significant change in the kind of products that are produced. I am just here giving some counter feedback in response to all the people that are pleased by this addition in the RPG line.
Just a matter of curiosity about the thought process that went into it; Not to criticize, but why use Rolling for character creation?
I think it's easier to understand and explain than point buys... plus it's how most of us built our first characters. And dice are fun!
Fair enough. :)
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stuffI don't fully disagree, but I think there will be a relatively large number of subscribers that are not interested in this product. I also think Paizo could anticipate people having reservations about this item more than others in the line of products associated with the subscription.
Most subscibers seem to be interested in the product, but I think it is a slighty more aggressive push to sell/promote their products and honestly I do not mind a single product like this, but the product varies from the other products in the line significantly enough to warrant some discussion.
I subscribe to get the products I will get sooner or later anyway at a discount, this product is the single product sofar I would not be interested in buying and well.. I want Paizo to know that not all established customers are interested in subscribing to this line of products if there is a significant change in the kind of products that are produced. I am just here giving some counter feedback in response to all the people that are pleased by this addition in the RPG line.
Would it be too much of an ask for Paizo to send an extra e-mail to RPG subscribers about this product? Something along the lines of: "The next instalment will not be a rules supplement for a standard PF game but will instead be a beginner's box designed to introduce the game to new players."
stuffI don't fully disagree, but I think there will be a relatively large number of subscribers that are not interested in this product. I also think Paizo could anticipate people having reservations about this item more than others in the line of products associated with the subscription.
Most subscibers seem to be interested in the product, but I think it is a slighty more aggressive push to sell/promote their products and honestly I do not mind a single product like this, but the product varies from the other products in the line significantly enough to warrant some discussion.
I subscribe to get the products I will get sooner or later anyway at a discount, this product is the single product sofar I would not be interested in buying and well.. I want Paizo to know that not all established customers are interested in subscribing to this line of products if there is a significant change in the kind of products that are produced. I am just here giving some counter feedback in response to all the people that are pleased by this addition in the RPG line.
I don't disagree with you either really. I'm a big believer in telling companies what you think of their products/practices.
My point is that there are inevitable losers here, no matter what path is chosen. It's likely some people are going to be unhappy when they receive it. But what's the alternative? Everyone whose expressed their opposition are being provided with a relatively easy out.
Fair enough. :)Just a matter of curiosity about the thought process that went into it; Not to criticize, but why use Rolling for character creation?
I think it's easier to understand and explain than point buys... plus it's how most of us built our first characters. And dice are fun!
Is there any other way to create a character?! Roll the dice, 3d6 in order! And get off my lawn! :P
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An option might have it sent to somebody in the states and your friend could then bust it up into two different packages to make it less than four ponds.
Have one package as the box un crushed. The other books the pure books to go media mail or cheaper. Guess International First class would work as well.
Basically get it under four pounds and combine the "game" components and the "book" components so the taxes are better to.
Just an idea. I know I have done it for forum friends with Dwarven Forge items. Not exactly the same didn't bust those down but sent them a different method than was offerEd by Dwarven Forge which was cheaper.
Sean
Or just remove the "game" components entirely. Dice and tokens aren't hard to come by. Not quite the same product, no, but depending on the savings it might just make sense.
Or just remove the "game" components entirely. Dice and tokens aren't hard to come by. Not quite the same product, no, but depending on the savings it might just make sense.
Dice and tokens aren't hard to come by if you know what you're looking for and where to find them. (For example, dice were a pain to find living on a military base overseas as a kid.) Including them in the box means one less barrier to get people playing right away.
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Sounds like there's a market here for someone to sell a "Beginner Set" for the overseas folks, consisting of purchasing a Beginner Box, removing the objects that cause customs issues, and selling that to the overseas folks.
I bet, given what customs and shipping will do to the price, that someone could net $5-$10 per box and still save overseas customers a *lot* per box because of the reduced shipping.
I'm not volunteering, mind you - I did my stint as an eBay seller and quickly realized that only under very limited circumstances is it actually worthwhile. But if there was some other kind soul out there who was willing to take it on, I bet there'd be some non-zero number of grateful overseas customers.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Cool thanks.We are working on something behind the scenes, but I don't want to promise anything until it is actually ready to go.
No matter what happens with that, the Beginner Box itself is really designed to open up and run with no prep work whatsoever. Just hand out the four pregens and their corresponding pawns, unfold the Flip-Mat, turn to the intro adventure in the GM book, and it'll guide you through the rest.
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I don't fully disagree, but I think there will be a relatively large number of subscribers that are not interested in this product. I also think Paizo could anticipate people having reservations about this item more than others in the line of products associated with the subscription.
Most subscibers seem to be interested in the product, but I think it is a slighty more aggressive push to sell/promote their products and honestly I do not mind a single product like this, but the product varies from the other products in the line significantly enough to warrant some discussion.
I subscribe to get the products I will get sooner or later anyway at a discount, this product is the single product sofar I would not be interested in buying and well.. I want Paizo to know that not all established customers are interested in subscribing to this line of products if there is a significant change in the kind of products that are produced. I am just here giving some counter feedback in response to all the people that are pleased by this addition in the RPG line.
I couldn't have said it better. I called and canceled and plan to resubscribe following this product, hopefully before I miss Bestiary 3. Customer support at Paizo is incredibly easy to work with so canceling this for one product is painless. Yes, its an minor inconvenience, but that's about it.
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I couldn't have said it better. I called and canceled and plan to resubscribe following this product, hopefully before I miss Bestiary 3. Customer support at Paizo is incredibly easy to work with so canceling this for one product is painless. Yes, its an minor inconvenience, but that's about it.
Understandable. I thought about it myself, but opted to go ahead and get it. Mostly because I think (hope) it will be a good way to introduce new players to the hobby. Which right now with the massive PH book for Pathfinder can be a bit of a problem. I have seen people get a lot less enthused at seeing the huge book and asking if they got to read all that. So hopefully the box set will help with that and that is really the only reason I am picking it up.
Will the monsters have simplified stat blocks? (e.g. no attributes, one entry only for AC etc.)
We are working on something behind the scenes, but I don't want to promise anything until it is actually ready to go.
I hope that means that you are working on a better solution of international customers.
This release should have been handled in the sam eway as the Rise of the Rune lord complied edition - a pre-order opt-in that then acts as if it where part of the subscription. If it had been done that way no-one would have 'lost-out'
There where numerous complaints and a fair number of suggestions on ways to address (includng the one above) this months ago, all of which where completely ignored.
I can only assume that this is for one of two reasons:
1. International customers do not matter and are not important because they are not american.
2. They intend to force-sell this to everyone, including those international customers who do not realise that a $35 boxed game is going to cost then $120.
I am sorry to say that by including this boxed game in the Pathfinder RPG book subscription Paizo suddenly moved from a company that I trust explicitly to a company that I can no longer trust.
I now must monitor every subscription with a microscope to make sure that you are not trying to sneak in computer software, novelty food items and paizo branded underwear.
Disappointed and disenchanted,
Antony
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We are working on something behind the scenes, but I don't want to promise anything until it is actually ready to go.
I hope that means that you are working on a better solution of international customers.
This release should have been handled in the sam eway as the Rise of the Rune lord complied edition - a pre-order opt-in that then acts as if it where part of the subscription. If it had been done that way no-one would have 'lost-out'
There where numerous complaints and a fair number of suggestions on ways to address (includng the one above) this months ago, all of which where completely ignored.
I can only assume that this is for one of two reasons:
1. International customers do not matter and are not important because they are not american.
2. They intend to force-sell this to everyone, including those international customers who do not realise that a $35 boxed game is going to cost then $120.
I am sorry to say that by including this boxed game in the Pathfinder RPG book subscription Paizo suddenly moved from a company that I trust explicitly to a company that I can no longer trust.
I now must monitor every subscription with a microscope to make sure that you are not trying to sneak in computer software, novelty food items and paizo branded underwear.
Disappointed and disenchanted,
Antony
I'm sure this post wins the "most hyperboles per word" award for 2011.
Also, I'm an International Customer! Writing a one-sentence "Please cancel my RPG sub" request took far less than writing an essay about being betrayed and backstabbed in cold blood.
We are working on something behind the scenes, but I don't want to promise anything until it is actually ready to go.
I hope that means that you are working on a better solution of international customers.
This release should have been handled in the sam eway as the Rise of the Rune lord complied edition - a pre-order opt-in that then acts as if it where part of the subscription. If it had been done that way no-one would have 'lost-out'
There where numerous complaints and a fair number of suggestions on ways to address (includng the one above) this months ago, all of which where completely ignored.
I can only assume that this is for one of two reasons:
1. International customers do not matter and are not important because they are not american.
2. They intend to force-sell this to everyone, including those international customers who do not realise that a $35 boxed game is going to cost then $120.
I am sorry to say that by including this boxed game in the Pathfinder RPG book subscription Paizo suddenly moved from a company that I trust explicitly to a company that I can no longer trust.
I now must monitor every subscription with a microscope to make sure that you are not trying to sneak in computer software, novelty food items and paizo branded underwear.
Disappointed and disenchanted,
Antony
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
...
Wait? That was a serious post?
I now must monitor every subscription with a microscope to make sure that you are not trying to sneak in computer software, novelty food items and paizo branded underwear.
Finally! Paizo-branded underwear! Where is the pre-order page?
I can only assume that this is for one of two reasons:
1. International customers do not matter and are not important because they are not american.
It's this one. Totally. The Beginner Box sales are indicative of Paizo's jingoistic attitudes and imperialist agenda to take over the RPG world.
We are working on something behind the scenes, but I don't want to promise anything until it is actually ready to go.
I hope that means that you are working on a better solution of international customers.
This release should have been handled in the sam eway as the Rise of the Rune lord complied edition - a pre-order opt-in that then acts as if it where part of the subscription. If it had been done that way no-one would have 'lost-out'
There where numerous complaints and a fair number of suggestions on ways to address (includng the one above) this months ago, all of which where completely ignored.
I can only assume that this is for one of two reasons:
1. International customers do not matter and are not important because they are not american.
2. They intend to force-sell this to everyone, including those international customers who do not realise that a $35 boxed game is going to cost then $120.
I am sorry to say that by including this boxed game in the Pathfinder RPG book subscription Paizo suddenly moved from a company that I trust explicitly to a company that I can no longer trust.
I now must monitor every subscription with a microscope to make sure that you are not trying to sneak in computer software, novelty food items and paizo branded underwear.
Disappointed and disenchanted,
Antony
They havent actually said it, as far as I know, but presumably part of the reason the one-off compilation is being handled the way it is has been due to customer feedback.
I think the biggest disconnect is that people who know how to play RPGs are the only people who subscribe to the RPG line. Therefore, some of them feel aggrieved at a beginners set being included as a subscription. Whilst I don't feel the same way, I think this is a valid position to take. However, the ease with which Paizo allow one to cancel and resubscribe makes it pretty much a moot point.
The only people entitled to claim any kind of "damage" can't be aware of the issue yet, in my view.
James Jacobs Fiendish T-Rex Underoos...will that be in the Companion series?
Cold and frightened,
Doombunny
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Im getting the players guide, the adv players guide, the monster book, and the city of strangers.
Im STILL getting the beginners box because its so cool! Plus, Im a beginner, so Im thinking its going to help out tons!
I wish the minis came with it, and I wish it came with a few more tiles or whatnot but its still a great value to me, because Im actually going to learn with the box set and Im going to try helping others with it after Im done.
I cant wait!
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"novelty food items and paizo branded underwear."
What about Novelty food paizo branded underwear?
Candy Thongs made out of little high fructose d20s?
Or boxers made out of fruit roll up style material?
I can dig it.
Your enthusiasm is appreciated... what you're enthused about, perhaps not so much. :D
Im getting the players guide, the adv players guide, the monster book, and the city of strangers.
Im STILL getting the beginners box because its so cool! Plus, Im a beginner, so Im thinking its going to help out tons!
I wish the minis came with it, and I wish it came with a few more tiles or whatnot but its still a great value to me, because Im actually going to learn with the box set and Im going to try helping others with it after Im done.
I cant wait!
And that is the entire point!
Tomorrow I am starting the Legacy of Fire AP with some unexperienced beginners. I copied the cheat sheet from the gamemasters guide, but this would be a great thing for me to have tomorrow. I could run the group through this first and give all the players ideas of what to play.
It is a good idea.
Has the delivery date been pushed back? I have a couple pre-ordered through Amazon(usa) and it is saying delivery for the first week of December?? They are B-day gifts for my son and his friend, otherwise it wouldn't matter for me.
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Has the delivery date been pushed back? I have a couple pre-ordered through Amazon(usa) and it is saying delivery for the first week of December?? They are B-day gifts for my son and his friend, otherwise it wouldn't matter for me.
Pr0 tip: Ordering from Amazon is a very bad idea if you want your RPG products on time. Their ability to push release dates for whatever reasons and delay shipments is legendary. Paizo, while slightly more expensive, pretty much guarantees you that stuff gets shipped ASAP.
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Has the delivery date been pushed back? I have a couple pre-ordered through Amazon(usa) and it is saying delivery for the first week of December?? They are B-day gifts for my son and his friend, otherwise it wouldn't matter for me.Pr0 tip: Ordering from Amazon is a very bad idea if you want your RPG products on time. Their ability to push release dates for whatever reasons and delay shipments is legendary. Paizo, while slightly more expensive, pretty much guarantees you that stuff gets shipped ASAP.
Thanks for the tip. With my PRIME shipping I'm saving $40 plus on both sets, which is more money for other gifts for my son, but looks like I'll hafta cancel if I want them on time.
Edit- yeah, I'm basically paying twice as much through Paizo direct, I think these will hafta wait for Xmas gifts. Not complaining mind you, just working within the family budget.
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Fun overseas customer fact: if the product arrived today, I wouldn't have to pay import taxes on it. A bit of second guessing would say that if it arrived tomorrow I'd have to (and thus it would about double in cost or more). In other words, anyone who can stir some economic debates that makes the dollar stay low until it ships, so it's not such a risk to order it (or get a subscription)? ;)
All in all, it looks like a solid box - will most likely use parts of it at once, and having a better way to intro new players is always good.
1. International customers do not matter and are not important because they are not american.
Huh? *scratches head*
2. They intend to force-sell this to everyone, including those international customers who do not realise that a $35 boxed game is going to cost then $120.
Paizo isn't force-selling anything. Don't want the product? It's quite simple to cancel/restart your subscription.
$120? That's what I, as an international customer, pay for October in total (including products from 3 other subscription lines).
I am sorry to say that by including this boxed game in the Pathfinder RPG book subscription Paizo suddenly moved from a company that I trust explicitly to a company that I can no longer trust.
One product is all it takes? Your faith in Paizo must've been extremely tenuous to begin with...
I now must monitor every subscription with a microscope to make sure that you are not trying to sneak in computer software, novelty food items and paizo branded underwear.
Paizo isn't trying to sneak in anything. They've been VERY open about their distribution methods for the Beginner's Box. At the same time, they can't hold our hand all the time. Keeping up to date on one's subscriptions and what's coming up is, in my opinion, not above and beyond what Paizo can expect from their customers. And Paizo does give us the option of cancelling our subscriptions at any time and resubscribe at will.
I've preordered mine, so I get what I get, but my son really wants to know...
Are the Dice really red?
(He hopes they are)
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While I won't be getting this as a subscription (I have already unsuscribed until after it ships), I will get this at some point in the future, when I can ship it to someone that can bring it from the states for me.
I have preordered the Miniatures Set, my only problem with the Beginner's Box is that since it crosses the accursed $30 limit for toys, I'd have to pay almost $40 in taxes, plus special mail and storage fees, and go pick it up in person from a cramped and crowded central post office where I'd have to stand in line for something about two hours, based on prior experience.
Again, I love the product, but importing toys can sometimes be a big problem.
I've preordered mine, so I get what I get, but my son really wants to know...
Are the Dice really red?
Yes! :)
I already found an error!
Dwarves add 2 to Constitution and Wisdom, and subtract 2 from to Charisma.