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Running last night's game, I had a witch cast Baleful Polymorph on the party wizard. (no, she did not turn him into a newt. She turned him into a weasel) He failed the fort save (obviously) but was fortunate enough to pass his will save, so at least he has retained his personality.
The witch was killed, and the following day the party Cleric is trying to figure out how to change him back, but there are no guidelines in the spell description. After some discussion, we decided that the polymorph is a permanent magical effect which can be dispelled. That sound right to everyone else?
The cleric, unfortunately, failed his caster level check. Just for fun, I ruled that the failed attempt altered the spell, transforming the wizard into a duck. (I had in mind that seen in the movie Willow, where they're trying to change the sorceress back to her true form and they need to go through a dozen animals or so before they get it right.)
Obviously, spellcasting is out of the question for the fellow, as is speaking. What else can he do while he's waiting for the Cleric to get him back to normal?
break enchantment should work
He could go for a swim. Depending on the species of duck, he could catch some fish while he's at it. And quacking. Lots of quacking.
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Yeah, he's got quacking down pat. Flying has come in handy already.
Unfortunately the Cleric is only 6th level and the party has no access to higher level spells for hire at the moment. The DC for the dispel is a 23, so he needs to roll a 17 for his caster level check. This could take a while. :P
Now taking suggestions on what other animals I can turn him into when the coming dispel checks fail.
Our party Bard once got turned into a Bunny during a big combat. Luckily he retained his mental capacity as well and started Dancing to inspire courage(just needs to be perceived to be effective)!
It was just plain Awesome! We all call it the Dancing Bunny Campaign now.
The possibilities are endless!! For humour you can start turning him into specific species of animals (example: a leopard frog instead of just a frog, or a skink instead of just a lizard).
But here are my thoughts:
-Platypus
-Goat
-Owl
-Mouse
-Newt
-Lawyer
If you want to be nice for a session, turn him into a Grizzly Bear or a Tiger and let him actually participate in combat!
The possibilities are endless!! For humour you can start turning him into specific species of animals (example: a leopard frog instead of just a frog, or a skink instead of just a lizard).
But here are my thoughts:
-Platypus
-Goat
-Owl
-Mouse
-Newt
-LawyerIf you want to be nice for a session, turn him into a Grizzly Bear or a Tiger and let him actually participate in combat!
Lawyer? I don't think the spell can transform anyone into a life form that lowly.
I think he should be tranformed into a swallow, then we can argue if it's an african or european swallow and what his overland speed is and if it would be changed if he were laden?
Did the wizard have a familiar? I wonder who the familiar would react to his master being an animal? "hey let's play", if you turned him into a rat, would his feline familiar taunt him?
Yeah, he's got quacking down pat. Flying has come in handy already.
Unfortunately the Cleric is only 6th level and the party has no access to higher level spells for hire at the moment. The DC for the dispel is a 23, so he needs to roll a 17 for his caster level check. This could take a while. :P
Now taking suggestions on what other animals I can turn him into when the coming dispel checks fail.
Why not fudge the rules so that a failed check puts the spell on "wild randomization" instead of "single switch"? Pick a number between 2 and 18. Whenever the Player rolls that on a d20 the PC switches to a new animal.
If you wish to have a list of animals you can, but a GM can always delegate. Have Players make suggestions at the spur of the moment, and if you can't pick one quickly the Players get to thumb wrestle to make their animal choice "win".
Unfortunately the Cleric is only 6th level and the party has no access to higher level spells for hire at the moment. The DC for the dispel is a 23, so he needs to roll a 17 for his caster level check. This could take a while.
Assuming typical stat distribution, the cleric should be able to prepare three dispel magic castings per day. Each one has a 20% chance of success. That amounts to a 60% chance of success each day.
Not that the player knows that.
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Assuming typical stat distribution, the cleric should be able to prepare three dispel magic castings per day. Each one has a 20% chance of success. That amounts to a 60% chance of success each day.Not that the player knows that.
That's not how percentages work. The actual percentage with three attempts is 48.8% or so.
Still, it shouldn't take too long.
If you want to be nice for a session, turn him into a Grizzly Bear or a Tiger and let him actually participate in combat!
'Fraid it doesn't work like that. Baleful polymorph only turns people into relatively harmless animals.
For a powerful combat form, you will need polymorph or something similar.
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The Cleric could cast tongues on the duck - that way he can cast verbal only spells.
Maybe the next failed check could get him something that could use somatic components, like a monkey?
A talking, spellcasting monkey. With a high intelligence.
:)
Could eventually get permanent tongues. He'll never want to go back to being whatever he was before!
Assuming typical stat distribution, the cleric should be able to prepare three dispel magic castings per day. Each one has a 20% chance of success. That amounts to a 60% chance of success each day.Not that the player knows that.
That's not how percentages work. The actual percentage with three attempts is 48.8% or so.
Still, it shouldn't take too long.
You're right; I was being lazy to illustrate the point. .8^3 odds of failure. Shrug.
tounges wouldnt work, because a duck doesnt actually have a language or the ability to speak at all. Tounges doesnt imbue the ability to speak, it's just a universal translator.
tounges wouldnt work, because a duck doesnt actually have a language or the ability to speak at all. Tounges doesnt imbue the ability to speak, it's just a universal translator.
You sure you're not thinking of comprehend languages?
A good way to determine animals the Player can be changed into would be to take the Familiars available to Witches/Wizards/Sorcerers and use them as alternate forms. Eventually the Player is going to get tired of being an animal, however, so having an enemy NPC throw a Dispel Magic, and having it work, and having the Wizard being able to go nuclear (note that nothing is preventing the Wizard from memorizing new spells, just casting them in their current form!), possibly even getting revenge on the other PCs for any indignities he might have suffered while Polymorphed....
WHY has no one mentioned squirrel form?!
WHY has no one mentioned squirrel form?!
Because they are Evil incarnate and would lead to large amounts of uncomfortably low-brown Nut jokes.
If you want to be nice for a session, turn him into a Grizzly Bear or a Tiger and let him actually participate in combat!'Fraid it doesn't work like that. Baleful polymorph only turns people into relatively harmless animals.
For a powerful combat form, you will need polymorph or something similar.
*reads spell description*
You are correct. That's what I get for not reading the spell before opening my maw. Haven't working with this one yet.
Squirrel = another good idea
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If you want to be nice for a session, turn him into a Grizzly Bear or a Tiger and let him actually participate in combat!'Fraid it doesn't work like that. Baleful polymorph only turns people into relatively harmless animals.
For a powerful combat form, you will need polymorph or something similar.
Since we're already in house rules territory here, and it is actually the failed dispel that is changing his form rather than the original polymorph, I might allow it in the name of fun. Actually I would probably stick with mostly comical and harmless animals, but throw in a few potentially useful ones as well, and make the roll random. I would probably have the player himself roll for it, in the name of fun.
Here's a sample random list
1 - fluffy pink bunny
2 - woodpecker
3 - koala bear
4 - sidewinder snake
5 - gecko
6 - bullfrog
7 - kiwi
8 - miniature poodle
9 - hairless cat
10 - pigeon
11 - hairless molerat
12 - flying squirrel
13 - fruit bat
14 - swan
15 - Shetland pony
16 - sloth
17 - praying mantis
18 - snapping turtle
19 - Tasmanian devil
20 - burrowing owl
tounges wouldnt work, because a duck doesnt actually have a language or the ability to speak at all. Tounges doesnt imbue the ability to speak, it's just a universal translator.You sure you're not thinking of comprehend languages?
Tongues does not enable the subject to speak with creatures who don't speak. straight from PRD
There is a spell called True Form in the APG... That's how the wizard gets back.
I dont see true form on the clerics spell list and it still seems there is a caster level roll needed, Dc is 11+caster level. So what level was the witch? I dont think this gives him a better chance than before...
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Tongues does not enable the subject to speak with creatures who don't speak. straight from PRDtounges wouldnt work, because a duck doesnt actually have a language or the ability to speak at all. Tounges doesnt imbue the ability to speak, it's just a universal translator.You sure you're not thinking of comprehend languages?
So? If you cast tongues on a squirrel it will be able to talk to any creature that has a language, like humans, elves, and dwarves.
I fail to see how your rules quote would prevent a baleful polymorphed wizard from regaining his ability to cast verbal component spells.
As written:
This spell grants the creature touched the ability to speak and understand the language of any intelligent creature, whether it is a racial tongue or a regional dialect. The subject can speak only one language at a time, although it may be able to understand several languages. Tongues does not enable the subject to speak with creatures who don't speak. The subject can make itself understood as far as its voice carries. This spell does not predispose any creature addressed toward the subject in any way.
Tongues would allow the duck-wizard to speak by RAW. If he can speak then he can cast spells with verbal components.
I would rule (houserule as I think by RAW he would still be able to) that he still can't do the somatic components due to a lack of learning how to do them in that form. If he got a form with hands (like a monkey perhaps) then he'd be able to do the somatic component.
Squirrels can't talk. The Spell specifically calls that out and says that it cannot give the ability to speak to creatures that can't speak. Including squirrels.
A wizard in squirrel form still has the inability to speak just as it has the inability to wear pants.
I'm sorry, but it seems to me that a prerequisite for the ability to speak a particular language is the ability to speak any language, which typical animals don't have. I wouldn't allow tongues cast on a gelatinous cube even if you got it's Int up to a normal level.
I understand what the words say in the spell description and I interpret them to be about granting languages to those who don't have them, not granting speech to creatures incapable of it.
A wizard in squirrel form still has the inability to speak just as it has the inability to wear pants.I beg to differ.
those are fluffy squirrels, it's a prestige class and they get wear pants and aprons at 5th level.
You could also have it become permanant but allow him speach.
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Interesting suggestions. Maybe I'll have him turn into a parrot at some point, so that he can talk. :)
The witch was 12th level, btw, and she cast the spell on the wizard in retribution for the fact that he killed her familiar. Shortly after that, the witch suffered a max damage critical from the archer and expired. (That was in retribution for the fact that she very nearly killed the archer with a Phantasmal Killer spell)
The REAL question is does the dead witch weigh as much as the wizard duck, if so you need to burn her.
+1 to Glutton! :D
...and all the talk about talking immediately made me think about this Order of the Stick strip :)
The REAL question is does the dead witch weigh as much as the wizard duck, if so you need to burn her.
Thank you for asking the hard questions.
Did the witch have the flight hex? Because that would have made her lighter, and given her a +4 to swim, so yes, she would have floated, like the duck, and thus been made of wood!
Here's a sample random list
1 - fluffy pink bunny
2 - woodpecker
3 - koala bear
4 - sidewinder snake
5 - gecko
6 - bullfrog
7 - kiwi
8 - miniature poodle
9 - hairless cat
10 - pigeon
11 - hairless molerat
12 - flying squirrel
13 - fruit bat
14 - swan
15 - Shetland pony
16 - sloth
17 - praying mantis
18 - snapping turtle
19 - Tasmanian devil
20 - burrowing owlDont forget my personal favorite:
Miniature Giant Space Hamster
Go for the eyes Boo! YAARRGH!
Squirrels can't talk. The Spell specifically calls that out and says that it cannot give the ability to speak to creatures that can't speak. Including squirrels.
A wizard in squirrel form still has the inability to speak just as it has the inability to wear pants.
It says "does not enable the subject to speak with creatures who don't speak."
A Human cannot speak with an animal either. He/she can speak at but speaking with implies participation from both sides.
I can agree that it was probably not the intention for the spell to grant the ability to speak but as it's written, that's exactly what it does.
Squirrels can't talk. The Spell specifically calls that out and says that it cannot give the ability to speak to creatures that can't speak. Including squirrels.
A wizard in squirrel form still has the inability to speak just as it has the inability to wear pants.
It says "does not enable the subject to speak with creatures who don't speak."
A Human cannot speak with an animal either. He/she can speak at but speaking with implies participation from both sides.
I can agree that it was probably not the intention for the spell to grant the ability to speak but as it's written, that's exactly what it does.
Agreed. It says you can speak with any intelligent creature that can speak. It doesn't actually say much about what it grants you other than the ability to speak and understand other languages. I'd imagine it would require the ability to speak BUT I'm sure some creatures speak using anatomy that humans don't have, and Tongues would allow a human to vocalize those sounds or whatever, which would be the same thing as giving a squirrel the ability to use common speech.
Personally, I say turn him into a monkey and if one of your players thinks to prepare and cast Tongues on him, I'd allow him to cast. If you want to keep him limited, turn him into a parrot. He should probably have SOME somatic-less spells to cast. If not...maybe drop him a partial spellbook with some in it?
What if a Druid cast Speak with Animals while someone else simultaneously cast Comprehend Languages? The latter spell does not designate whether or not the spoken words of the creature need to be a standard language, and the former allows a person to understand animals as if they spoke the same language.
Then again, perhaps Awaken could work here?
As I understand it, the squirrel in question has a language, he may be physically a squirrel, but on the other hand, has the mind of a high intelligence wizard. The wizard has a language, and can probably understand what is being said completely, as he retains all his former knowledge and personality, so therefore tongues should work imo.
on another note, this would make a very strange campaign setting, something similar to Mouse Guard.
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Baleful Polymorph has become the go-to finisher for the Witch in my campaign last couple of nights. Once, there was a science experiment let loose on a town to stalk and kill the townsfolk, hoping that the people would pray to their gods for the "angels" to come down and stop the killing. The party stepped in, and after my fiance's character got mauled, the witch Baleful Polymorphed their enemy. Out of character, she ask for animal ideas. Immediately, sloth was chosen. So the party had a little mascot for a while.