How many other DM’s run modules etc from their PC or Laptop? Can Technology play a greater role in table RPG.


Technology

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I swear by Combat Manager. It's the most amazing program I've ever encountered, and it's flippin' FREE!!!


Haunter of the Dark wrote:

The responses on this thread have been very interesting.

I've looked at Hero Lab, d20Pro and some of the others mentioned and whilst they are good ideas, I don't think that they adequately perform well enough for what they are intended.

I'm all for rolling dice and working out effects etc, I don't wish to move away from that, but what I'd like from Paizo and other table-top based RPG's is a piece of OFFICIAL software where maps can be viewed on a PC/Mac/iPad for use on linked applications such as a projector, 2nd monitior, online if required without the need for physical flip-maps and minatures. It's a bind having to draw the maps out in advance and cover over areas that the characters have yet to see/explore. Plus my drawings are a bit naff and the minatures never resemble what they ought to!

It's time we moved on a bit from the 70's & 80's I think. Paizo, Chaosium, FFG, Wizards of the Coast etc need to produce something for their respective games and take this whole thing forward in my opinion.

I think that's where you'll want to look at MapTool which has one port now to iPad (MaPnakotic) and will run on any other platform that supports Java (Mac/Windows/Linux/Android). Although I'm not sure if someone has made an Android version yet. MaPnakotic is still 1.0 and buggy, but it's there so VTTs are possible cross-platfrom.

Wizards is trying as well, but IMO they've shot themselves in the foot long term by going with Silverlight.

We are not yet at the point of a "holographic" or even projected table. Many of the technological components are there yes. However both price and integration are not. Ubiquitous projectors with multi-user interactive surfaces are still 5 to 10 years off from being consumer level friendly and affordable. Just look into the products schools and universities try using and you'll see the outline of what could be but not the fully realized form.

****
Something interesting to consider...

http://www.tuaw.com/2011/04/28/apple-approves-javascript-ios-games-that-byp ass-uiwebview/


I seen Hero Lab in action and its pretty nifty. What I like most about it is getting rules descriptions very quickly as well as keeping track of conditions on your character and cohorts.

Have Bless, click on Bless and it calculates everything.
Go into Rage, click on Rage and it calculates everything.

Condition tracker is by far the most useful in-combat feature.

Creating software is not easy - if it was everyone would do it. You have to spend many of man-hours to get even a half-way decent app going. That doesn't even count all the man-months to properly become a proficient programmer. Not everyone can do it. Even those who have the ability may not have the drive to do it. But the few who do we should encourage them and goad them on!

Add me to the list of those looking for a more rich gaming experience using all these new fangled gadgets and toolery.


Dorje Sylas wrote:
Haunter of the Dark wrote:


I'm all for rolling dice and working out effects etc, I don't wish to move away from that, but what I'd like from Paizo and other table-top based RPG's is a piece of OFFICIAL software where maps can be viewed on a PC/Mac/iPad for use on linked applications such as a projector, 2nd monitior, online if required without the need for physical flip-maps and minatures. It's a bind having to draw the maps out in advance and cover over areas that the characters have yet to see/explore. Plus my drawings are a bit naff and the minatures never resemble what they ought to!

I think that's where you'll want to look at MapTool which has one port now to iPad (MaPnakotic) and will run on any other platform that supports Java (Mac/Windows/Linux/Android). Although I'm not sure if someone has made an Android version yet. MaPnakotic is still 1.0 and buggy, but it's there so VTTs are possible cross-platfrom.

Agreed. What Haunter of the Dark has described is pretty much what MapTool does. Definitely worth taking a look at.


Any worthwile Andriod apps apart from the spell list online?

I wonder if I can load the pfd20srd on my HTC Legend smartphone...?

Grand Lodge

Shifty wrote:

Any worthwile Andriod apps apart from the spell list online?

I wonder if I can load the pfd20srd on my HTC Legend smartphone...?

Well you could easily either get one of the downloads of the site or download it yourself and then save it to the SD card and pop a link to it on your home screen :-D


My downloading website skillz are teh n00b.

I will take your suggestion though, and see if I can translate it down to simple steps and do so :)


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1) Like the DM's Familiar page on Facebook
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3) Drop me an email at todd@paladinpgm.com. I'll send you a registration code.

Liberty's Edge

Being a computer geek by trade...

I've been GMing using a laptop since about 2000. Even if at first adventures had to be transcribed into HTML pages and hyperlinked. For the curious, here's one from about 2002 or so. Now that PDF technology has advanced, decent bookmarking does the trick. The RPG Archive is constructed using web technology although for obvious reasons is running locally not online (buy yer own PDFs!), with each game system having one or more pages with images of the book covers, click on the cover and the PDF opens. Works well for online gaming and for reviewing as well.

I still prefer the sort of dice that actually get rolled on the table. I'm not a miniatures-user, but maps, illustrations, etc., can be stuck up on a screen for the players to look at quite nicely.

Nowadays, having had a stroke, I can no longer carry a pile of books when going out to play, so the laptop gets loaded with whatever game I'll be playing that night. (The full Archive lives on a 1.5 terabyte disk...) I also no longer write longhand, but oddly retained the ability to touch-type - the one thing I can still do with my right hand, even beer glasses have to be held in the left hand! - so can make any notes that I need to in a WP program.


Along the lines of a computerized tabletop idea, I have heard of projectors over a table, but I am surprised no one has implemented a reverse projection underneath a table using frosted glass or something similar. At least I could not find anything.

We should be at the point where technology is within an acceptable price range.


Uchawi wrote:

Along the lines of a computerized tabletop idea, I have heard of projectors over a table, but I am surprised no one has implemented a reverse projection underneath a table using frosted glass or something similar. At least I could not find anything.

We should be at the point where technology is within an acceptable price range.

Or just wait until this hits.


Oh sure. People are using reverse projection tables. They are also using wii motes to turn them into interactive white boards


Scott Betts wrote:
Uchawi wrote:

Along the lines of a computerized tabletop idea, I have heard of projectors over a table, but I am surprised no one has implemented a reverse projection underneath a table using frosted glass or something similar. At least I could not find anything.

We should be at the point where technology is within an acceptable price range.

Or just wait until this hits.

Uh... no. I think not. While 7,000 USD is cheaper (and in a thin package the MSs own Surafce) it isn't consumer grade. Not when projectors are still not somtheing most people are buying for home use. For less then 7000 I can get a MacMini(server*), 5 iPads, setup 5 or 6 simultaneous users on VNC and get them full acess to MapTool, plus acess to PDF/HTML reference material(around 4000, make it 5000 in estimation for a projector/tv).

Maybe replace the MacMini with a cheaper Windows laptop if you trick it out right software wise.

The trouble with under the table projection is two things #1 you either need a good short throw distance projector or #2 a good mirror arrangement to extend the distance. This creates a very deep. You don't need frosted glass. A wax paper layer should work as well. http://anselan.blogspot.com/2009/01/rear-projection-with-wax-paper.html

I haven't had the time to put such a contraption together myself, nor the space, nor the projector.

Another big issue is protablity. Giant game table screens aren't exactly something everyone has the floor space for.

Personally I'd look to using Player's own personalized tables/smartphones connecting to a portable "server" (3 channel WiFi N laptop). I realize I'm on a nerd rant but goodness, you could even get a Nook Color to act as a viewing/input remote client this way.

*:
I'm looking to forward to Lion and integrated server functions bunddled in the consumer OS.


Getting back to the OP, "Can Technology play a greater role in table RPG." -- the answer appears to be no.

Seems like the majority answer is using PDFs rather than books. While nice, those aren't leveraging technology to any significant extent. Using a VTT to allow you to play with gamers anywhere in the world is certainly leverage, but seems to be used by a small niche. Using a HTML SRD is nice, but hardly a leap in advancement.

Looks like most folks are still rolling dice, playing on a battlemap, the table crowded with books.


DMFTodd wrote:

...

Looks like most folks are still rolling dice, playing on a battlemap, the table crowded with books.

I think most people love the tactile feedback that real dice give you (also the belief that you can somehow affect the roll as well as the anticipation to wait for the dice to stop moving).

I prefer a real battlemap over of digital representation. I'm still waiting for the E-ink battlemaps that will be used with figurines (again tactile feedback).

And I think having the Core and APG books on the table is better in most cases over PDF. Where PDF shines in all the splat books. (Do you need to have a copy of Arms and Armory on your table? No, you can just have access to the PDF in your devices - phone or e-Reader).

HeroLab makes managing and generating characters easier. The condition manager is great! (Take strength damage, click on a button to reduce strength and then everything recalculates - still use real dice though).


Dice are a tactile and necessary part of the game... I'd never replace them.


Shifty wrote:
Dice are a tactile and necessary part of the game... I'd never replace them.

I'll put that in the same category as "I'd never use an ereader, I like the feel of books".

Sovereign Court

Every time I see a piece of electronics come to the gaming table it ends up just slowing things down. Even in the set up it takes longer to find room for the bloody laptop or whatever on the table, get the cord run which seems inevitably tripped over during the course of the evening or out of reach and then it's a lot of, "Hold on let me find it" that takes twice as long because you can't just flip a couple of pages.


DMFTodd wrote:
Shifty wrote:
Dice are a tactile and necessary part of the game... I'd never replace them.

I'll put that in the same category as "I'd never use an ereader, I like the feel of books".

And righhtly so, I do think that technology has a great and important place at the gaming table, and love the freedom and utility that it offers - however the game is still a social one and there is a history and tradition that is worth keeping. Dice are just one of those uinversal factors in all RPG's and one I think keeps the game a little more tangible - to remove those too just seems to be taking it one significant step to simply playing an online MMO.

I like MMO's a lot, but tabletop gaming is a different beast, because it offers that physical and social aspect the MMO's lack.


Shifty wrote:
Dice are just one of those uinversal factors in all RPG's

::cough::amber::cough::

::cough::Wildcards::cough::


Sorry, that came out snide. The thread though is how can we use technology.

Here was the the final battle my last campaign:
Efreeti, with class levels, 4 attacks per round, crit range 15-20. Flaming & Unholy damage as well.
6 Erinyes
Gnoll, Cleric 11

Now, maybe you've got a photographic memory and can remember all of the bonuses to attack and all the damage rolls for all of those NPCs. And you can remember the crit range and can roll those confirms. And you've got enough color-coded dice to handle the average of six attack rolls. Or maybe the game comes to halt while you look those up each round.
-- Or, you use a computer, you click one button, and all of those attack & damage rolls are made for you.

Maybe you're a math wiz and can adjust in your head all of the changes to attack & damage when the cleric puts a bull strength on the efreeti and a mass cat's grace on the erinyes. Or maybe you're getting those numbers all wrong each round.
-- Or, you use a computer and simply enter a +2 to STR and a +2 to dex for the NPCs. Then when you click the button for attacks, those adjustments come in automatically.

Maybe you're an organizational genius and can remember which 3 out of the six erinyes gets dispelled and lose the bonus. Or you get it wrong each round.
-- Or, you use the computer and simply remove the +2 Dex from the Erineyes that failed and you don't have to remember anything each round.

Maybe you're memorized every spell and don't need to look anything up. -- Or use the computer to quickly find those in the SRD or in your database app of choice.

Now, maybe you love your dice and those advantages just aren't worth it to you. Or, maybe you find a computer at the table a big hassle and those advantages aren't worth it to you. Or maybe you do have a photographic memory, are a math whiz, and an organizational genius and don't need the help.

But let's at least mention what the advantages are before we say it's not worth it.


Oh there is certainly a pile of math to be crunched in PF; its not like the old skool editions where the number of modifiers and multipliers were far fewer in number...

Which is why I use things like excel spreadsheets and Combat Manager to remind me of all the bits and pieces so they dont need to be looked up and recalculated. Worst case scenario I would have the majority all penned out.

So yeah technology has its place indeed, and in fact I'd agree the case for it is the case stronger than the one against, however when it comes time to cast the bones then my preference is for them to be real dice.

It also avoids people complaining things might be 'fixed' or shady programs etc etc.

My preference, and what I have described above was my rationale (and why), however if you think diffrently and want to roll on an iphone or lappy then by all means go ahead.

It's all Pathfinder, it's all good.

I just prefer classic flavour.

Liberty's Edge

A tangental thought can be the use of technology as props...

In a Spycraft game, the GC actually provided an encrypted CD for me to hack in game... so my hacker character sat there with his laptop and found the data we needed. (As I personally am a better hacker than my character, it was quite fun...).

If you can program a bit, you can have a bit of fun with a thing called an arduino - especially effective for SF games. Actually handing your Paranoia players a mysterious box when R&D give them the latest prototype to test can be... amusing!

Here's a link to a blog by a game designer called Duane O'Brien who's used arduinos and other technical bits'n'bobs to enhance his gaming experience.


Shifty wrote:

Which is why I use things like excel spreadsheets and Combat Manager to remind me of all the bits and pieces so they dont need to be looked up and recalculated. Worst case scenario I would have the majority all penned out.

So yeah technology has its place indeed, and in fact I'd agree the case for it is the case stronger than the one against, however when it comes time to cast the bones then my preference is for them to be real dice.

It also avoids people complaining things might be 'fixed' or shady programs etc etc.

Yep, yep on spreadsheets for combat tracing and bonus wrangling. Used it on my lap, am all to happy to move it to my iPad.

Again yep, yep. Random Number generators on a computers function in specific way. While faster computers can get you a "quick (more random)" result it is still dependent on a seed value and mathematical operations. People don't always trust that invisible process, especially folks who used the early generators. Had a player with a digital "R2" d6 which beeped and booped as it generated numbers from 1 to 6 when you pushed in the head. Horrible results created from a limited selection of seeds... actually I think it only had the one because we actually could predict the result with high accuracy once we tracked it.

The whole point of using technology isn't just for the technology sake but to make some aspect easier/quicker. This has almost always come down to familiarity. I still remember when I was in elementary school and we had group of older students as part of larger event do a "calculator" race. They had with an abacus against three people with calculators, the abacus user beat them to most basic answers... mostly because he was far more proficient with the abacus then his "opponents" were with their calculators.


Dorje Sylas wrote:
Again yep, yep. Random Number generators on a computers function in specific way. While faster computers can get you a "quick (more random)" result it is still dependent on a seed value and mathematical operations. People don't always trust that invisible process,

People don't trust dice either. You're not commenting on technology but on people.


DMFTodd wrote:
Dorje Sylas wrote:
Again yep, yep. Random Number generators on a computers function in specific way. While faster computers can get you a "quick (more random)" result it is still dependent on a seed value and mathematical operations. People don't always trust that invisible process,

People don't trust dice either. You're not commenting on technology but on people.

That and I am also commenting on the limitation of computer generated random numbers. If you know the formula or know a seed that gives a particular result, then you predict the outcome. If you can select the seed (in some cases changing the computer's clock to a particular value will work) you even outright select the result.

Computers (programs) can also be rigged in very subtle ways that dice can't. For example slot machines can be configured to generate a minor win if a certain number of failed results by a particular player. Something you wouldn't even notice but is "rigged" all that same. It's more obvious when dice are swapped out.

Former VP of Finance

Personally, my setup requires no paper on the GM end:

  • Game runs over voice chat (Mumble)
  • All books are in pdf form. The second monitor is dedicated to them. (Search is my best friend.)
  • Any BBEG I build is built and presented in Hero Lab.
  • Tactical combat is through D20 Pro.
  • Initiative tracking is on the iPad.
  • Campaign notes, etc, are in OneNote (which I've found is *amazing* for running a campaign. I highly recommend it.)
  • Dropbox allows me to quickly share (via public folder) anything that I need the players to see that can't be presented via D20 Pro.

Theoretically, my game could be completely paper free if the players don't print their character sheets.


DMFTodd wrote:

Getting back to the OP, "Can Technology play a greater role in table RPG." -- the answer appears to be no.

Seems like the majority answer is using PDFs rather than books. While nice, those aren't leveraging technology to any significant extent. Using a VTT to allow you to play with gamers anywhere in the world is certainly leverage, but seems to be used by a small niche. Using a HTML SRD is nice, but hardly a leap in advancement.

Looks like most folks are still rolling dice, playing on a battlemap, the table crowded with books.

It is probably more of a question on what you need as a player, versus being a DM. For a DM, managing resources is critical, versus a player who has everything they need available on paper. If you prefer books, then you are not going to buy into technology. In addition, it is not going to be an automatic success if you do switch, because it will involve some trial and error.

I don't think technology can replace everything, but in my case, if I had sofware I liked to manage combat, characters and monsters, then all I would need outside of a netbook would be dice, a battlemat, some miniatures, and dry erase markers. If flexible display technology becomes affordable and portable, then the only old school item I would have left is dice.


I've been looking at ways to gamemaster Warhammer Quest games from my iPad. A year or so ago i had programed the entire monster deack and dungeon deck into the TableSmith application. Unfortunately, iPad and TableSmith dont play together. I've created my own game-agnostic, cross-browser random generator construction tool for the web dxContent.com that will hopefully help all those non-pc using DMs out there. Its in beta release, so Im still ironing out wrinkles.

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