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Pretty much like the subject says. I never really looked at them closely because I've yet to play a character who'd want a bear.
It doesn't look like its a balance issue. Apes get Large at 4th level, gaining the same strength and attacks as a Grizzly Bear (not counting the companion bonuses). Wolves become Large at 7th level which, while undeniably awesome, makes even less sense. So why no Large bears??
They are black bears?
for some reason they chose the only bear default as a medium bear. a black bear presumably since I think the other medium sized bears are not terribly threatening.
why they didn't do 2 bears like cats is probably due to room.
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Don't they still have polar and dire bears?
As monsters, yes, but as animal companions, no. The Bear animal companion stats start out at Small until 4th level, when they grow to Medium. There is no further growth step. (I've always thought a second growth at 14th level or so would be appropriate for a lot of animals.)
Don't they still have polar and dire bears?As monsters, yes, but as animal companions, no. The Bear animal companion stats start out at Small until 4th level, when they grow to Medium. There is no further growth step. (I've always thought a second growth at 14th level or so would be appropriate for a lot of animals.)
Black Bears and Polar Bears are on the d20pfsrd site, but they're not official. The only bears in the Bestiary are Grizzlies and Dire, both of which are Large. Afraid I don't have a copy of Bestiary 2 handy to see if more were added there.
Although this doesn't answer the question, this is from the PRD:
"To generate stats for a smaller bear (like a black bear), you can apply the young simple template to the grizzly bear's stat block. To generate stats for a larger grizzly or a polar bear, apply the advanced simple template to the grizzly's stats."
Black bears, grizzlies, and polar bears are in the PRD.
The average Black bear seems to be 250 pounds for male, 150 for female, so just the top end of medium size. The world record for a black bear is well over 850 lbs, so large should be a possibility...
The average Black bear seems to be 250 pounds for male, 150 for female, so just the top end of medium size. The world record for a black bear is well over 850 lbs, so large should be a possibility...
...since apparently wolves can grow to the size of a horse. :)
The average Black bear seems to be 250 pounds for male, 150 for female, so just the top end of medium size. The world record for a black bear is well over 850 lbs, so large should be a possibility...
It's absolutely a possibility. Use the giant simple template.
The average Black bear seems to be 250 pounds for male, 150 for female, so just the top end of medium size. The world record for a black bear is well over 850 lbs, so large should be a possibility...It's absolutely a possibility. Use the giant simple template.
For a monster. Not for an animal companion.
Animal companion bears are more Boo-Boo than Baloo methinks (scale wise - they obviously don't wear the bow tie and develop into their owner's conscience until they are awakened ;)
Do they need to be large all the time though? Wouldn't it be easier to have a medium companion most of the time and just make it bigger when necessary?
Also, would it be unbalanced to have a large bear for a companion? I don't play druids nor do I have many in my games so I don't really know.
Do they need to be large all the time though? Wouldn't it be easier to have a medium companion most of the time and just make it bigger when necessary?
Oh no doubt, having a Large animal companion can be a PITA. Heck, even Medium ones can be. That's an issue with companions as a whole though.
Also, would it be unbalanced to have a large bear for a companion? I don't play druids nor do I have many in my games so I don't really know.
I don't think it would be, it's just a matter of designing them correctly. Other non-mount companions can be large without being unbalancing. Bears are almong the largest animals in North America, it baffles me that they're limited to medium size.
Ok, now I'm just ranting. I'll stop now. :)
Do they need to be large all the time though? Wouldn't it be easier to have a medium companion most of the time and just make it bigger when necessary?Oh no doubt, having a Large animal companion can be a PITA. Heck, even Medium ones can be. That's an issue with companions as a whole though.
Also, would it be unbalanced to have a large bear for a companion? I don't play druids nor do I have many in my games so I don't really know.I don't think it would be, it's just a matter of designing them correctly. Other non-mount companions can be large without being unbalancing. Bears are almong the largest animals in North America, it baffles me that they're limited to medium size.
Ok, now I'm just ranting. I'll stop now. :)
They are limited to medium size as an animal companion, not as an animal. Also, in North America, there are three species of bears. The polar bear is the largest but also the least encountered by most North Americans. The black bear is the smallest of the North American bears and the most common. So the PRD is essentially correct (if we are using North America as the base). I would think that the animal companion is represented by the standard entry in the Bestiary.
What we see from movies and television is usually a grizzly bear because of its size and ferocity. It's a perception difference though. black bears are more common and smaller.
So the PRD is essentially correct (if we are using North America as the base). I would think that the animal companion is represented by the standard entry in the Bestiary.
The entry in the bestiary for a standard bear is the Large-sized Grizzly.
Do they need to be large all the time though? Wouldn't it be easier to have a medium companion most of the time and just make it bigger when necessary?Oh no doubt, having a Large animal companion can be a PITA. Heck, even Medium ones can be. That's an issue with companions as a whole though.
Also, would it be unbalanced to have a large bear for a companion? I don't play druids nor do I have many in my games so I don't really know.I don't think it would be, it's just a matter of designing them correctly. Other non-mount companions can be large without being unbalancing. Bears are almong the largest animals in North America, it baffles me that they're limited to medium size.
Ok, now I'm just ranting. I'll stop now. :)
They are limited to medium size as an animal companion, not as an animal. Also, in North America, there are three species of bears. The polar bear is the largest but also the least encountered by most North Americans. The black bear is the smallest of the North American bears and the most common. So the PRD is essentially correct (if we are using North America as the base). I would think that the animal companion is represented by the standard entry in the Bestiary.
What we see from movies and television is usually a grizzly bear because of its size and ferocity. It's a perception difference though. black bears are more common and smaller.
The American Black Bear is similar in average size to black bears found throughout the world. The average male black bear is about 250 pounts and 4 to 6 feet in length. They're the same size as humans, but a bit heavier.
I would definitely put them in the "medium" category. Also, I've chased a black bear away from my food while on canoe trips along the Minnesota/Canada border.
So the PRD is essentially correct (if we are using North America as the base). I would think that the animal companion is represented by the standard entry in the Bestiary.The entry in the bestiary for a standard bear is the Large-sized Grizzly.
That's right. My bad. I was confusing the young template for the grizzly being the black bear and the druid animal companion.
For a monster. Not for an animal companion.The average Black bear seems to be 250 pounds for male, 150 for female, so just the top end of medium size. The world record for a black bear is well over 850 lbs, so large should be a possibility...It's absolutely a possibility. Use the giant simple template.
There are a lot of animals that aren't available as companions. Additionally, I'm not sure that taking the world record and demanding that the average in a game conform to that is an entirely logical conclusion.
I'm also kinda disappointed there's no option for a large bear companion. Bear-riding dwarven rangers, cavaliers or mounted barbarians would be seriously awesome.
Then again, I don't see why it can't be introduced in the game. Gallard's version looks cool - btw, the 4th/ 7th level abilities are all in addition to the regular ones, right? As in, the NA bonus would be +5 rather than +3?
I'm also kinda disappointed there's no option for a large bear companion. Bear-riding dwarven rangers, cavaliers or mounted barbarians would be seriously awesome.
Then again, I don't see why it can't be introduced in the game. Gallard's version looks cool - btw, the 4th/ 7th level abilities are all in addition to the regular ones, right? As in, the NA bonus would be +5 rather than +3?
Correct.
All I can say is they are afraid of bear cavalry, and for good reason to. It's a mighty force to reckon with.
Now the way my dm handled it for me, when I played a bear shaman archetype druid, was to just have it start at medium and grow to large at the size increase but use the normal stats. No extra bonus or anything, but it is an option to not be overpowering if you want to go the bear cavalry route.
First grievance:
RANGERS CANNOT HAVE A BEAR COMPANION*.
Second:
No Large Bear companion, period.
The first is the greatest ridiculousness, the second is just insult to the injury.
*The one 'technicality' of the Beastmaster kit notwithstanding.
Furthermore, I don't wanna even hear about this 'Grizzlies/Polar bears are uncommon' guff either, there's a metric smackload more of them than there are T-REX's and Idontthinkhesauruses last time I checked!
Furthermore, I don't wanna even hear about this 'Grizzlies/Polar bears are uncommon' guff either, there's a metric smackload more of them than there are T-REX's and Idontthinkhesauruses last time I checked!
We weren't using their commonality to say why it had to be that way. The issue of "average" was in relation to black bears themselves. The world record is ~850 lbs (the record for a non-american black bear is about 300 lbs), but on average, they're only 250 lbs. So, if you had a black bear companion, a "typical" specimen would be a medium sized creature.
Now, if you let a druid have a brown bear as a companion, that should reach the Large category. And I agree, I would like to see brown bears available as companions.
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The averages seem to get chucked out the window - size M Stegosaurus for example :p
At the end of the day, calling it a brown or a black, or even a white is just fluff, the difference is a mechanical one (that in this case seems a bit spurious - size L in cat or wolf, but not bear?) and I'd have liked to see this change.
Still annoyed at the inability to have Grizzly Adams the Ranger with a Bear. So unjust.
Give the Rangers back their Bears!
The averages seem to get chucked out the window - size M Stegosaurus for example :p
At the end of the day, calling it a brown or a black, or even a white is just fluff, the difference is a mechanical one (that in this case seems a bit spurious - size L in cat or wolf, but not bear?) and I'd have liked to see this change.
Still annoyed at the inability to have Grizzly Adams the Ranger with a Bear. So unjust.
Give the Rangers back their Bears!
It's not fluff if you're referencing real world animals.
A black bear averages 250 lbs and is 4-6 feet long.
A brown bear averages 1500 lbs and is 8-10 feet long.
One of those is clearly medium, the other is large.
It's not fluff if you're referencing real world animals.
A black bear averages 250 lbs and is 4-6 feet long.
A brown bear averages 1500 lbs and is 8-10 feet long.
One of those is clearly medium, the other is large.
Awesome.
Now show me the 10' Wolves.
It's not fluff if you're referencing real world animals.
A black bear averages 250 lbs and is 4-6 feet long.
A brown bear averages 1500 lbs and is 8-10 feet long.
One of those is clearly medium, the other is large.
Awesome.
Now show me the 10' Wolves.
Sigh, if you read further up, I'm not opposed to large sized bears. Quite the opposite, I'm just pointing out, a real black bear is very much medium sized. Do fantastical versions of everything exist in pathfinder? YES! that's why we play it. It doesn't mean it HAS to exist, or SHOULD exist, but it is possible if that's what you want.
And similarly, the Black Bears can grow well in excess of the size shown, so if I want a size L Black Bear then it should be ok... unlike the wolves which (in PF) seem to have no hassle coming in size L.
The North American Bear Center, located in Ely, Minnesota, is home to the world's largest captive male and female black bears. Ted, the male, weighed 950–1,000 lb (430–450 kg) in the fall of 2006.[38] Honey, the female, weighed 555.5 lb (252.0 kg) in the fall of 2007.[39]
And thats without magic. :)
edit: I'm grouchy at the shonky limitations in the game, not necessarily with you :p
And similarly, the Black Bears can grow well in excess of the size shown, so if I want a size L Black Bear then it should be ok... unlike the wolves which (in PF) seem to have no hassle coming in size L.
The North American Bear Center, located in Ely, Minnesota, is home to the world's largest captive male and female black bears. Ted, the male, weighed 950–1,000 lb (430–450 kg) in the fall of 2006.[38] Honey, the female, weighed 555.5 lb (252.0 kg) in the fall of 2007.[39]And thats without magic. :)
edit: I'm grouchy at the shonky limitations in the game, not necessarily with you :p
I mostly agree. It's why I've grown fond of some other systems like PDQ, Fate or a bunch of others.
I live a couple hours away from that place. I've seen a lot of bears in my life (some of them I've chased, others chased me), most don't get that big. That region is also my favorite place to go camping. Nothing like a canoe trip through the BWCA.
That region is also my favorite place to go camping. Nothing like a canoe trip through the BWCA.
Always good to have a favourite camping spot.
I think a lot of people have no appreciation for the great outdoors because they seem to have seen very little of it :P