Becoming an Evil Cleric?


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I've got a cleric in my game who worships Nethys, At some point he's going to go from CN to NE.

Is the cleric's channelling positive/negative energy set when they start taking levels in a class? or if a neutral cleric becomes evil, but is still within one step of his deity's alignment: do they suddenly shift to channelling negative energy instead of positive energy?


Since he is CN, at first level he chose between channeling positive energy or channeling negative energy. Whichever he chose became permanent (p.40 CRB). Though, reading through the CRB, I didn't see anything in the cleric section about what happens to your powers (such as channeling energy) if the cleric were to experience a dramatic shift in alignment such as that.

Also, how do you know this shift in alignment is going to happen haha? Is this something your cleric has openly decided? Others will probably know more than I, but that seems like something that would be up for the DM to decide?

EDIT: Since he is neutral, if he already chose to channel negative energy then there would be no problem. Though if he chose to channel positive energy, I could see where the DM would rule that he would automatically shift to channeling negative energy. AND YES, the cleric's ability to channel is in effect beginning at first level of being a cleric.

Silver Crusade

I don't think there is meant to be any way in PF for an evil cleric to channel positive energy. So I would say that it is GM's call as to how they start channeling negative energy...IMO, at the moment the alignment changes, whatever act motivates the alignment switch, they cease to be able to channel positive energy and go to negative. Or, if you are a truly eeeeeeviiillll GM, you could say that because they chose to channel positive energy at the beginning of their career and it is permanent ("Once the player makes this choice, it cannot be reversed." PFSRD), they no longer can channel energy period.

Just my two cents...


My interpretation of RAW would be that the cleric starts channeling negative energy.

Quote:

PRD:

A good cleric (or one who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures. An evil cleric (or one who worships an evil deity) channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures. A neutral cleric who worships a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the cleric casts spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see spontaneous casting).

Once your cleric goes to Evil, he ceases to be a "Neutral Cleric" (The context of the term neutral above relates to the good-evil axis), and becomes an "Evil Cleric", and thus would follow the rules presented for evil clerics. If the character were ever to return to neutrality, he would resume channeling whatever choice he made when he attained his first level of cleric. The wording says the choice cannot be reversed, not that you will forever channel that type of energy.

Corrected some typos and just using the wrong words. Friends don't let friends post tired :/

Liberty's Edge

Robb Smith wrote:

My interpretation of RAW would be that the cleric starts channeling negative energy.

Once your cleric goes to Evil, he ceases to be a "Neutral Cleric" (The context of the term neutral above relates to the good-evil axis), and becomes an "Evil Cleric", and thus would follow the rules presented for evil clerics. If the character were ever to return to neutrality, he would resume channeling whatever choice he made when he attained his first level of cleric. The wording says the choice cannot be reversed, not that you will forever channel that type of energy.

Perfect answer IMO.

Of course, the fun thing for the GM is that the Cleric realizes he is now channelling Negative Energy after seeing the result of his Channel (ie, harming his fellow PCs, or healing their undead opponents)


I forgot the part about which deity you worshiping affecting your choice.

I find it surprising that he will even manage to become evil as he channels positive energy over and over (which is a good act, as I recall).

Slightly off-topic - is casting a lawful/chaotic/good/evil spell an act of that type? I keep saying it is, but I can't find it in the book anywhere, just about channeling energy.

Grand Lodge

TheRedArmy wrote:
I find it surprising that he will even manage to become evil as he channels positive energy over and over (which is a good act, as I recall).

This idea has been creeping in (since 3.0, to be honest) but I prefer to avoid making such a direct connection. Positive energy is a natural force. It preserves life, eases suffering and damages undead, which are mostly evil. Good people and Good deities approve of these effects. However, it can also heal an innocent so he can suffer more, heal an evil creature so it can do more evil, or strengthen forms of life that cause harm to others.

In any case, the question seldom comes up, because few evil creatures can channel positive energy and so it's unlikely ever to become an alignment violation.

TheRedArmy wrote:
Slightly off-topic - is casting a lawful/chaotic/good/evil spell an act of that type? I keep saying it is, but I can't find it in the book anywhere, just about channeling energy.

Probably, but even if opposed to the caster's alignment, it's a very minor transgression. I'd be more interested, for alignment purposes, in what results the caster intended and achieved.

Liberty's Edge

Seraphimpunk wrote:

I've got a cleric in my game who worships Nethys, At some point he's going to go from CN to NE.

Is the cleric's channelling positive/negative energy set when they start taking levels in a class? or if a neutral cleric becomes evil, but is still within one step of his deity's alignment: do they suddenly shift to channelling negative energy instead of positive energy?

Robb's answer above sums up my thoughts on what will happen regarding channeling.

I'm curious about this bit, though: "At some point he's going from CN to NE." This is a two-step alignment shift; it's a pretty strong change. If it happens, it should be a two stage process. He worships a Neutral god. That means that the only route that would preserve his class powers would be a shift from CN to N, and then a further shift from N to NE.

If this is a new character whom the player scribbled CN on the page, but is acting NE, consider a conversation along the lines of, "It looks to me like the character is really NE based upon his actions...let's just change it now." If it is a developed character who is going through change, the future tense seems somewhat pre-ordained.

Edit to consolidate posts:

TheRedArmy wrote:
I find it surprising that he will even manage to become evil as he channels positive energy over and over (which is a good act, as I recall).

In SRD 3.5 and D&D 3.5, channeling positive energy is explicitly a good act and channeling negative energy is explicitly an evil act. This statement doesn't exist in PRD, leaving it up to individual GM/playgroups to decide.

TheRedArmy wrote:
Slightly off-topic - is casting a lawful/chaotic/good/evil spell an act of that type? I keep saying it is, but I can't find it in the book anywhere, just about channeling energy.

The alignment tags limit what spells can be cast by clerics based upon their alignment and the alignment of their deity, but are not explicitly an act of a given alignment.

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