Why PF over D&D 3.5


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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DeathQuaker wrote:
joela wrote:
cibet44 wrote:
Now with PFRPG we will have a DMG for every player, seems a bit wasteful, but that's what it takes.
I'm confused. Why does each player need a GameMastery Guide (GMG) each?
He's talking about the fact that the PF Core Rulebook contains the equivalent contents of the 3.x Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide. And is more expensive than just the 3.5 PHB.

Ah!


joela wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
joela wrote:
cibet44 wrote:
Now with PFRPG we will have a DMG for every player, seems a bit wasteful, but that's what it takes.
I'm confused. Why does each player need a GameMastery Guide (GMG) each?
He's talking about the fact that the PF Core Rulebook contains the equivalent contents of the 3.x Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide. And is more expensive than just the 3.5 PHB.
Ah!

Yes. Exactly.

Also, thanks all for the mentioning of the PDF and PRD. I am aware of them and often use the d20SRD now and I'm sure will use the PRD when we switch. As far as the group goes though we like to have a physical PHB for each player and DM during play sessions so it won't really help in our purchases.

I guess we got our moneys worth out of our 3.5 core stuff after 8 years of regular gaming. I hope the PF stuff lasts as long. Although, if it does, everyone in the group including me will be almost 50 years old. My god, how long are we expected to play this game? Sorry Paizo for spiking your age based demographics.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
I think you meant "I prefer my heavily housruled 3.5" here. :)
People played 3.5 without houserules? O.o

+1


cibet44 wrote:

Yes. Exactly.

Also, thanks all for the mentioning of the PDF and PRD. I am aware of them and often use the d20SRD now and I'm sure will use the PRD when we switch. As far as the group goes though we like to have a physical PHB for each player and DM during play sessions so it won't really help in our purchases.

I guess we got our moneys worth out of our 3.5 core stuff after 8 years of regular gaming. I hope the PF stuff lasts as long. Although, if it does, everyone in the group including me will be almost 50 years old. My god, how long are we expected to play this game? Sorry Paizo for spiking your age based demographics.

I sincerely hope you get your moneys worth (and I certainly expect you to).

As for the cost of the core rulebook, I think its kind of a damned if you do damned if you dont depending on the group. For instance, my group which is rather large, has multiple games running at once, and in 3.5 days, most of us dmed and owned a copy of the dm guide and monster manual. So for us it was cheaper to pick up copies of the core rules instead of several phbs and dmgs seperately.

Either way, welcome to pathfinder and happy gaming!


JJJ wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:
Because Paizo listens to their community.
Could not have said it any better. 3.5 seemed to me to be all about quantity over quality. What we really wanted was a quality game. That's what I get from Pathfinder

+1


I loved the volume of books in 3.5, primarily because my party didn't take optimization to the extreme. We do play pathfinder now, but it does feel more power gamey to 3.5, maybe that's just because i didn't know how strong clerics and wizards were/are back then.

I'd like to see more character options in the form of feats which the ultimate combat and magic should be providing soon. Also the archetypes are really helping to create different characters but I think a system that lets you use the variant abilities without going all or nothing would be nicer. They could be considered heavy feats or something, but i am sure this would make balancing a nightmare for the developers.

One down side (not to sound nit picky) is that I find the product releases to be a bit odd. An example is the kingmaker adventure path came out and then i think 6 months later the supplementry map pack was released. Luckily our group hadn't started it yet so we were fortunate to be able to use that resource. It'd be nice if the all the supplements to an AP were available on the printing of the first book.

The FAQ will be a great resource once it is completed and hopefully there will be an app released soon.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Sarrion wrote:
One down side (not to sound nit picky) is that I find the product releases to be a bit odd. An example is the kingmaker adventure path came out and then i think 6 months later the supplementry map pack was released. Luckily our group hadn't started it yet so we were fortunate to be able to use that resource. It'd be nice if the all the supplements to an AP were available on the printing of the first book.

That's because all of the maps for an AP aren't completed until the last book goes to print. While I know the latest path always seems exciting, I always recommend starting one that is already completed. There are plenty of great ones to choose from at this point, and I doubt any group has played them all.


fjw70 wrote:
I have played a little 3.5 and never played PF, but I have been interested to give it a try. So why do you prefer PF over D&D 3.5? Is it because it is in print? Do you think the system is superior? Other reasons?

In Pathfinder it feels like the classes are more balanced to me.

Overall I think the rules are a wash. They simplified the rules, but then gave all the classes more bells and whistles.


tlc_web tlc_web wrote:
fjw70 wrote:
I have played a little 3.5 and never played PF, but I have been interested to give it a try. So why do you prefer PF over D&D 3.5? Is it because it is in print? Do you think the system is superior? Other reasons?

In Pathfinder it feels like the classes are more balanced to me.

Overall I think the rules are a wash. They simplified the rules, but then gave all the classes more bells and whistles.

Yes, but those bells and whistles are more intuitive than the bells and whistles of 3.5


Thanks for the replies (and the entertaining -- for a while -- monk unarmed discussion).


deinol wrote:


That's because all of the maps for an AP aren't completed until the last book goes to print. While I know the latest path always seems exciting, I always recommend starting one that is already completed. There are plenty of great ones to choose from at this point, and I doubt any group has played them all.

I agree that there are other great adventure paths to choose from. It would just be nice to be able to know you can purchase the first party assets for a more complete adventure from day one. Really I'm just dreaming of a complete product being released with all the bells and whistles but the reality is that Paizo is not in a position to deliver that kind of product yet.

Though I think it would be really cool if they sold boxed/packaged adventure paths. It'd be neat to be able to get a package "deal" on say the 6 AP's for RotRL with a map pack, the item card pack maybe a beastiary pack too. If reaper has made the relevant mini's a link to pick those up would be nice as well.

Again living in a dream world and of course I recognize the great effort that Paizo puts forward and in no way claim to know how to do the job better.


Sarrion wrote:
deinol wrote:


That's because all of the maps for an AP aren't completed until the last book goes to print. While I know the latest path always seems exciting, I always recommend starting one that is already completed. There are plenty of great ones to choose from at this point, and I doubt any group has played them all.

I agree that there are other great adventure paths to choose from. It would just be nice to be able to know you can purchase the first party assets for a more complete adventure from day one. Really I'm just dreaming of a complete product being released with all the bells and whistles but the reality is that Paizo is not in a position to deliver that kind of product yet.

Though I think it would be really cool if they sold boxed/packaged adventure paths. It'd be neat to be able to get a package "deal" on say the 6 AP's for RotRL with a map pack, the item card pack maybe a beastiary pack too. If reaper has made the relevant mini's a link to pick those up would be nice as well.

Again living in a dream world and of course I recognize the great effort that Paizo puts forward and in no way claim to know how to do the job better.

You know what would be awesome? If Paizo took the completed Adventure Paths that they have, and put up a bundled version of em with the maps / players guides and whatnot, and sell it at like 15% off the total price of buying everything individually!

That would be pretty sweet.


Kvantum wrote:

I really wish they had never called it "3.5" to begin with. It was more like "3e, Service Pack 1." Major fixes, some significant changes, but still the same game underneath.

Pathfinder I think of as Service Pack 2. Same game, just with more fixes, patches, and upgrades.

Really like this, lol.


Stomphoof wrote:


You know what would be awesome? If Paizo took the completed Adventure Paths that they have, and put up a bundled version of em with the maps / players guides and whatnot, and sell it at like 15% off the total price of buying everything individually!

That would be pretty sweet.

Is this available? or are you agreeing with me? If it is available already I'd be really stoked!

Dark Archive

Stomphoof wrote:

You know what would be awesome? If Paizo took the completed Adventure Paths that they have, and put up a bundled version of em with the maps / players guides and whatnot, and sell it at like 15% off the total price of buying everything individually!

That would be pretty sweet.

That's been discussed many times, and Paizo's reply has been consistent: folks would most likely drop their monthly subscriptions to wait for such a package (I know I would), impacting the company's steady flow of income.

Dark Archive

Sarrion wrote:
Stomphoof wrote:


You know what would be awesome? If Paizo took the completed Adventure Paths that they have, and put up a bundled version of em with the maps / players guides and whatnot, and sell it at like 15% off the total price of buying everything individually!

That would be pretty sweet.

Is this available? or are you agreeing with me? If it is available already I'd be really stoked!

Nope.


joela wrote:
Stomphoof wrote:

You know what would be awesome? If Paizo took the completed Adventure Paths that they have, and put up a bundled version of em with the maps / players guides and whatnot, and sell it at like 15% off the total price of buying everything individually!

That would be pretty sweet.

That's been discussed many times, and Paizo's reply has been consistent: folks would most likely drop their monthly subscriptions to wait for such a package (I know I would), impacting the company's steady flow of income.

I wish they would do this for the older APs. Rise of the Runelords being a good example. I agree it could be a mistake for the stuff that is less than a year old.


joela wrote:
Stomphoof wrote:

You know what would be awesome? If Paizo took the completed Adventure Paths that they have, and put up a bundled version of em with the maps / players guides and whatnot, and sell it at like 15% off the total price of buying everything individually!

That would be pretty sweet.

That's been discussed many times, and Paizo's reply has been consistent: folks would most likely drop their monthly subscriptions to wait for such a package (I know I would), impacting the company's steady flow of income.

I agree that some people probably would drop their subscriptions but just like movies that are in a trilogy format, you will have early buyers and the people who wait along with the people who purchase both.

I don't expect that part to change at all, really i just hope that in the future supplementry materials can be provided closer to the release date of the adventure path instead of after it is completed.


joela wrote:
Stomphoof wrote:

You know what would be awesome? If Paizo took the completed Adventure Paths that they have, and put up a bundled version of em with the maps / players guides and whatnot, and sell it at like 15% off the total price of buying everything individually!

That would be pretty sweet.

That's been discussed many times, and Paizo's reply has been consistent: folks would most likely drop their monthly subscriptions to wait for such a package (I know I would), impacting the company's steady flow of income.

Wouldn't you miss the free PDFs that come with the sub?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

There has been talk of possibly making a 5 year anniversary edition of Rise of the Runelords, probably in a nice hardback. Has not been announced, but certainly a possibility.

They did have some discounted AP bundles around the holidays, I suspect they will return again next December. I was not in a position to take advantage of it at the time. Of course, I'm only missing Curse of the Crimson Throne. And I have books 1&2 already.

So I don't expect them to reprint any AP in hardback that isn't already at least partially sold out. Which may be never for some APs. RotR and CoCT are the only two that could be remotely possible at the moment.

Liberty's Edge

I prefer PF over 3.5 because while it has not fixed enough issues I have with 3.5 it fixes some. I also no longer have my 3.5 core and other related sourcebooks os rebuying them again would be more expensive than buying PF. Besides an occasional 3.5 game mostly everyone seems to have switched to PF which leads me to the last reason being in that it is in print and being supported.

Dark Archive

fjw70 wrote:
joela wrote:
Stomphoof wrote:

You know what would be awesome? If Paizo took the completed Adventure Paths that they have, and put up a bundled version of em with the maps / players guides and whatnot, and sell it at like 15% off the total price of buying everything individually!

That would be pretty sweet.

That's been discussed many times, and Paizo's reply has been consistent: folks would most likely drop their monthly subscriptions to wait for such a package (I know I would), impacting the company's steady flow of income.
Wouldn't you miss the free PDFs that come with the sub?

Nope. I'm pretty much a print-with-pdf-as-last-resort kinda guy.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
joela wrote:
fjw70 wrote:
joela wrote:
Stomphoof wrote:

You know what would be awesome? If Paizo took the completed Adventure Paths that they have, and put up a bundled version of em with the maps / players guides and whatnot, and sell it at like 15% off the total price of buying everything individually!

That would be pretty sweet.

That's been discussed many times, and Paizo's reply has been consistent: folks would most likely drop their monthly subscriptions to wait for such a package (I know I would), impacting the company's steady flow of income.
Wouldn't you miss the free PDFs that come with the sub?
Nope. I'm pretty much a print-with-pdf-as-last-resort kinda guy.

Actually, the biggest advantage of PDFs is that you can copy-paste stuff from it (stablocks, maps, handouts, artwork) and use it whatever way you seem fit - I always extract all the statblocks from an AP episode and create a handy mini-bestiary for the adventure.

Also, ctrl-f sometimes can save your life :)

Dark Archive

Gorbacz wrote:


Actually, the biggest advantage of PDFs is that you can copy-paste stuff from it (stablocks, maps, handouts, artwork) and use it whatever way you seem fit - I always extract all the statblocks from an AP episode and create a handy mini-bestiary for the adventure.

Which I don't do. I'm a bit old-fashion that way: I have the mod behind my GM screen where I can look at all the statblock, maps, etc. I use scratch paper to jot down hit points and the like, and battle mats to lay out/ draw out locations. If I truly need a copy of something, my printer is also a copier.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
joela wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:


Actually, the biggest advantage of PDFs is that you can copy-paste stuff from it (stablocks, maps, handouts, artwork) and use it whatever way you seem fit - I always extract all the statblocks from an AP episode and create a handy mini-bestiary for the adventure.

Which I don't do. I'm a bit old-fashion that way: I have the mod behind my GM screen where I can look at all the statblock, maps, etc. I use scratch paper to jot down hit points and the like, and battle mats to lay out/ draw out locations. If I truly need a copy of something, my printer is also a copier.

You should try someday. What I love about the PDFs is that if I want to add some HD to a monster, or swap some NPCs level from ranger to barbarian, I can just copy-paste it into Word and tweak things as I desire.

Not to mention the ability to copy-paste the art and print it so that I can show how a monster looks to the players without worrying about them reading the statblock (or worse)!


Gorbacz wrote:


Actually, the biggest advantage of PDFs is that you can copy-paste stuff from it (stablocks, maps, handouts, artwork) and use it whatever way you seem fit - I always extract all the statblocks from an AP episode and create a handy mini-bestiary for the adventure.

I do that as well. Very handy, particularly when the stat blocks are abbreviated in the book. I can have them more fleshed out and with any notes I need in on my mini-bestiary and not have to crack open the full book very often.

Dark Archive

Gorbacz wrote:


You should try someday. What I love about the PDFs is that if I want to add some HD to a monster, or swap some NPCs level from ranger to barbarian, I can just copy-paste it into Word and tweak things as I desire.

Ah. I've been doing that since AD&D days, i.e., making the changes. Paper and pencil continues to work fine ^_^

Gorbacz wrote:
Not to mention the ability to copy-paste the art and print it so that I can show how a monster looks to the players without worrying about them reading the statblock (or worse)!

Half, if not more, of my players are GMs themselves and have copies of my same books and/or mods. That's one of the reasons why my changes are on a separate piece of paper and behind my screen.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
fjw70 wrote:
I have played a little 3.5 and never played PF, but I have been interested to give it a try. So why do you prefer PF over D&D 3.5? Is it because it is in print? Do you think the system is superior? Other reasons?

One, Pathfinder is supported and 3.5 is not.

Two, Switching to Pathfinder allows me to jettison all of that 3.5 splat bloat without having to weed out the few useful bits from all of the unbalanced garbage. Also Paizo doesn't make a new base class every other month and then leave it tossing in the wind for support. Every base class they've created has had material for it in subsequent books.

Three, In Pathfinder, base classes are a meaningful path instead of something to junk for a Prestige Class as soon as you can goose the numbers to qualify.

I don't think the system is different, but I like Paizo's package of refinements to it.


Pathfinder has grown on me as i find the minor tweaks to spells and feats are amazing. The classes are generally more interesting but at the same time I think I liked my wizards with a d4 hit die. SO YMMV but I started out indifferent and the more classes I play the more I can't go back to 3.5


Dark_Mistress wrote:

1) it is in print, which makes it easier to find people to play with. For now it is not a big issue but as more time past the more true that will be. I loved old world of darkness but it has been out of print for 10 years and it is very hard to find enough people to want to play it and all but impossible to get books for.

2) 3.x was not perfect, with nearly 10 years of play. Some flaws and other things showed up. many of them common house rules etc. Pathfinder addressed many of those issues and fixed them. While I didn't like all the fixes I liked the vast majority of them. All and all Pathfinder improved on 3.x DnD IMHO and made it a tighter game.

3) Paizo has very talented writers. The new stuff they add is well balanced and well done. Their books are often a good read just to read.

4) Because I am a big fan of the new stuff and the changes they made. Not to mention their adventures and stuff. I buy Pathfinder to support a company I like.

Those are my main reasons for picking PFRPG over 3.x. They are not in order of whats most important to me. That would be 2, 3, 4, 1 as far as order goes.

What Dark Mistress said. :) Emphasis on 4 though and supporting a great company. Everything has been very high quality from what I've bought and well worth the money I've invested. I'd add the fact that they sell both printed and/or PDF copies is also a huge benefit to a DM that doesn't necessarily want a mountain of books to carry around.


I was curious for those of us that have 3.5 supplemental books (Liber Mortis comes to mind), if we are going with a PF campaign do these books not work with it or is it a matter of preference only?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Matthias wrote:
I was curious for those of us that have 3.5 supplemental books (Liber Mortis comes to mind), if we are going with a PF campaign do these books not work with it or is it a matter of preference only?

A lot of those books were problems even in 3.5. Any book that was a problem in 3.5 is a recipe for disaster in a Pathfinder campaign. Eventually I got tired of sorting it out and jettisoned the lot.

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