xebeche |
7 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
You can throw an enemy spell back at its caster.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 15 ranks, Improved Counterspell.
Benefit: Whenever you successfully counter a spell, it returns back to its caster. This works exactly like the spell turning spell.
I'm undecided on this feat for a counterspell build I'm considering for my Druid. It hinges upon the interpretation. Counterspell seems to work regardless of who/what is targeted. Parry Spell spell complicates this by replicating the effects of Spell Turning:
Spells and spell-like effects targeted on you are turned back upon the original caster. The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected.
Does this mean that Parry Spell only works when my character is the target? If a Wizard is were to cast Power Word Stun, for example, on a party member I could NOT benefit from the Parry Spell feat and send it back at the Wizard because my character was not the target?
beej67 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Oohhh, good question.
In my opinion, this:
Whenever you successfully counter a spell, it returns back to its caster. This works exactly like the spell turning spell.
trumps this:
The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target.
If it didn't, then taking the feat would prevent you from ever being able to counter spells that didn't target you. Parry Spell doesn't state "Whenever you successfully counter a spell targeting you, it returns back to its caster." It states "Whenever you successfully counter a spell, it returns back to its caster." If the intent were to only allow spells targeted at you to be returned, then they clearly would have stated that in the Parry Spell description, because that's a huge and largely nerftastic limitation on a high level, prerequed feat.
I'm definitely interested to what others have to say though.
beej67 |
The one thing that's not explicitly stated, that's sorta annoying, is what happens when you counterspell a buff. If the caster casts haste on himself, and you counter it, is it required to be automatically redirected onto the caster, therefore it still goes through?
I'd presume you can choose when to use 'parry' and when not to.
Quantum Steve |
Also, what would happen if you countered an area effect? Where would it be centered when it was "parried"?
If you countered a ray or touch attack, would you have to make an attack roll?
What about a cone? Where would the "parried cone" originate? You? The caster? Do you get to aim the cone?
What about Grease? Where does that get "parried"? The ground under the caster? The caster himself? An item he's holding? What if the caster is flying?
Summon Monster? I can't even think how that would work. You get control of the creatures?
It seems to me, logically, this feat would have to be restricted to the same spells Spell Turning is restricted for the very same reason. Spells without a target are just not easy to adjudicate in this way.
wraithstrike |
Also, what would happen if you countered an area effect? Where would it be centered when it was "parried"?
If you countered a ray or touch attack, would you have to make an attack roll?
What about a cone? Where would the "parried cone" originate? You? The caster? Do you get to aim the cone?
What about Grease? Where does that get "parried"? The ground under the caster? The caster himself? An item he's holding? What if the caster is flying?
Summon Monster? I can't even think how that would work. You get control of the creatures?
It seems to me, logically, this feat would have to be restricted to the same spells Spell Turning is restricted for the very same reason. Spells without a target are just not easy to adjudicate in this way.
Area of affect spells are not affected by spell turning so I would think that you can only parry targeted spells. It would be nice if that was stated in more detail though.
Whenever you successfully counter a spell, it returns back to its caster. This works exactly like the spell turning spell.
I know spell turning is limited in what it can turn.
xebeche |
After these comments I'm inclined to think that the character utilizing the Parry Spell feat has a choice of whether to use it or not. In the case of an enemy buffing himself, the counterspell would stop at the counter and not proceed to Parry Spell or Spell Turning. AoE spells, ranged attack spells and the like would follow this same procedure, countered, but not parried or turned.
I'm of the opinion that the Parry Spell feat should be able to send a hostile, targeted spell back at the caster, regardless of who it targets.
I'm a noob though. This is the best sense I can make of the topic.
beej67 |
After these comments I'm inclined to think that the character utilizing the Parry Spell feat has a choice of whether to use it or not. In the case of an enemy buffing himself, the counterspell would stop at the counter and not proceed to Parry Spell or Spell Turning. AoE spells, ranged attack spells and the like would follow this same procedure, countered, but not parried or turned.
I'm of the opinion that the Parry Spell feat should be able to send a hostile, targeted spell back at the caster, regardless of who it targets.
I'm a noob though. This is the best sense I can make of the topic.
Seems about right to me as well, although it certainly reduces the power of it somewhat. I guess it's still better than nothing.
madkanoflap |
I'm really interested in learning what the intention of the creator of the feat is.
1. Exactly like spell turing, so personal targeted spells only
2. All targeted spells you can counter (seems the best option to me but, what about parrying to somebody with spell turning...)
3. Parry all spells you can counter
4. Parry all spells you can and want to counter
Is it possible to get a, somewhat, more official ruling on this feat?