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I've been idly building some mid-high-level characters, and decided to see what can be done about vulnerability to mental control attacks etc. To my surprise, I couldn't find any magical items providing appropriate type of protection, so I went to try and see how one could be built.
My end conclusion is that Circlet (or whatever else) of continuous Protection From Evil is pro'lly the best way to go about it - but the cost is throwing me off.
Per rules, cost for continuous use magic item is Spell Level x Caster Level x 2000 [x spell duration-variable multiplier]. For Protection From Evil (1st level spell) the cost seems to be a meager 1 (SL) x 1 (CL) x2000 x2 because Protection from Evil is a 1min/level duration spell... so 4,000g gives immunity to mental influences AND +2 Deflection AC bonus and +2 Resistance Save bonus VS evil? That seems awfully cheap to me, and I'm assuming I'm doing something wrong?
Thanks.
Set it to how much you think people'd be willing to pay for it, then adjust the caster level to the nearest available increment for that amount of money. That should save you some cost headaches. I'd say about 8,000 gp would be about right, so CL 2nd would work IMO.
@Studpuffin : I'm not worried about my players pulling it off or something; I'm worried I'm misunderstanding the rules :)
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Set it to how much you think people'd be willing to pay for it, then adjust the caster level to the nearest available increment for that amount of money. That should save you some cost headaches. I'd say about 8,000 gp would be about right, so CL 2nd would work IMO.@Studpuffin : I'm not worried about my players pulling it off or something; I'm worried I'm misunderstanding the rules :)
Nope, you're right on track afaict. :)
Actually it's only 4,000 max. Buy the clear spindle ioun stone from the seekers of secerts book and put it in a wayfinder. The resonance you get is protection from evil and immunity to dominate.
Madclaw, that's a good catch - though as I check on it, a small nitpick: You don't gain Protection from Evil; you gain "Protection from posession and mental control" (as protection from evil) - but, by the wording, I assume no AC or Save bonuses?
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Madclaw, that's a good catch - though as I check on it, a small nitpick: You don't gain Protection from Evil; you gain "Protection from posession and mental control" (as protection from evil) - but, by the wording, I assume no AC or Save bonuses?
Ahh, yes, you're correct. Sorry, I didn't have the book in front of me when I quoted it. But it's nice. I know a lot of Prc classes in 3.0 & 3.5 got Pro X as a class feature.
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+2 deflection 8,000 gold, +2 resistance 4,000 gold, protection from mental control and possession 4,000 gold roughly..
now deflection and resistance only work against evil so I'd half the price, ending up at 10,000 gold
+2 deflection versus evil - 4,000 gold
+2 resistance versus evil - 2,000 gold
protection from mental control and possession - 4,000 gold
I'd multiply the deflection and resistance bonus * 1,5 for stacking in a single item so I'd end up with a 13,000 gold item, which seems a fair price to me. I'd set the CL at 3 and probably make it an amulet, since those are traditionally worn as charms against evil.
By "mid level" you are most likely at or past +2 to both deflection and resistance bonuses against all things- not just evil.
This of course depends on what you consider "mid level" and whether you are going by WBL and allowing PC's to get the things the game assumes they should have.
Not doing so is fine- but it can also skew things when you are figuring out pricing.
Given that by 10-12 or so folks should be at or past the +2 mark then "cutting the cost" by using the wayfinder modification seems like a pretty nice deal. Unless of course you intend the creatures in question to start "boosting" the +2's to something higher..
-S
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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The resistance bonus to saves and deflection bonus to AC are small potatoes in the grand scheme.
What makes the item (especially with the wayfinder bit) cheat is this:
1. Complete immunity to enchantment (charm) and enchantment (compulsion) effects - in other words, *ALL* enchantments. "While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target," having previously stipulated in the paragraph's first sentence that "spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] and enchantment [compulsion] effects)."
Do not be fooled into thinking that "possess or exercise mental control" restricts the effect to charm/dominate spells. It specifically includes ALL enchantment [compulsion] effects, including hold person, hold monster, power word (blind, stun, kill), confusion, insanity, feeblemind, suggestion, sleep, symbol (insanity, sleep, persuasion, stunning - all of it.
1a. The "new saving throw at a +2 morale bonus" applies only if the target has already been affected and you cast the PfE spell on them while that effect is still ongoing. If the PfE effect is already in place, you are immune to incoming effects.
You also will need to be careful of PCs trying to use the item with permanent PfE as a portable "pop it on anybody that fails a save" infinite-use curative item.
2. Immunity to bodily contact from any evil summoned creature. Demons that summon other demons, fiendish animals, all of them can't touch the creature unless the PC attacks them first. Creatures that use weapons can use those, or ranged attacks or spells, but no claw/claw/bite/grapple or whatever.
#1, though is the big killer. You are handing out total immunity to a vast array of pretty common and powerful effects. Frankly I'm surprised they kept this rule for PfE. If they had made it block possession and dominate effects, I think that would have been ample to model the kind of "warding out evil spirits" concept the spell has always had. At a stretch, they could've added [charm] effects.
Adding in all [compulsions] to the spell's effect was not a good idea IMO. If you want to hand out a permanent-effect item with this, it should be a heck of a lot more expensive than 4000 gp in my book.
<snip>
1. Complete immunity to enchantment (charm) and enchantment (compulsion) effects - in other words, *ALL* enchantments. "While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target," having previously stipulated in the paragraph's first sentence that "spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] and enchantment [compulsion] effects)."
Do not be fooled into thinking that "possess or exercise mental control" restricts the effect to charm/dominate spells. It specifically includes ALL enchantment [compulsion] effects, including hold person, hold monster, power word (blind, stun, kill), confusion, insanity, feeblemind, suggestion, sleep, symbol (insanity, sleep, persuasion, stunning - all of it.
<snip>
Jason,
I'm not sure I agree with how you read Protection from Evil descriptor (though I wouldn't mind being proven wrong); the SRD description of Protection From Evil reads:
Second, the subject immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against any spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects).
I'll grant you, the wording is not crystal-clear, but rather than reading that as including all enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects I'd read it as including any enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects that exercise mental control
The difference being, in my mind, that while spells like Charm Person and Dominate do exercise mental control, spells such as Sleep and Hold Person do not necessarily do so. I'd argue that mental control involves forcing victim to take actions against its own volition, such as taking an enemy's order, stabbing your friends or drinking a vial of potion, not merely not taking any action. I'd even consider spells such as Fear to be dubious - it doesn't necessarily enforce control, as much as presents the victim with a motivator to a powerful emotion.
A lot of this is, in fact, semantics, but I think the subject is worth the debate, seeing the magnitude of game impact.
Andro
Assuming a Continues Magic item
First = +2 Defection Bonus to AC and +2 Resistance = Are only effective vs creatures that are evil. Good or Neutral creates are not effected by this.
Second = You would only receive a +2 morale bonus vs the Saving Throw ( you would only get one save, for a continues magic item = re-read Protection from evil spell if you have question why). If you fail your save, then you are still effected. This is only effective vs creatures that are evil. Good or Neutral creatures can still charm or control you.
((( +4 bonus total from first and second, still not an automatic effect)))
Third = The spell prevents body contract with evil summoned creatures (assuming they failed the spell resistance). Again, summoned creatures that are good or neutral are not effected. Also, you can not force this barrier against a evil summoned creature or attack the evil summoned creature without negating this effect.
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This is a nice item to make into a magic item, but it is not overpowered, because of all the restriction.
Evil Summoned = If you attack or force your way throw = Effect ends for creature for 24 hours. If evil summoned beats the spell resistance, no effect
Saving Throw vs Control = Is not automatic. You one get one save at +2 bonus (( +4 counting the resistance bonus )) if your already wearing the magic item. If you fail your save, then you are controlled. And you are not protected by good or neutral charmers. ------ If the DM, allowed the magic item to be passed around, then you might get a second save. --------If i was a DM, i would require the magic items to be worn for 24 hours before getting any effect from the magic item--------.
AC and Saving throw = +2 bonus but only against evil creatures.
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If i were to make this into a magic item. Then adding a few restriction to the item should solve the problems.
1): Require the item to we worn for 24 hours before gain any of its effects. Why: To prevent the item from being shared.
Firstly:
its PRD not SRD. SRD actually is for a different set of rules :)
Secondly:
quoteth from the spell: (actually, the whole spell except for the top table of bits such as caster level and whatnot)
First, the subject gains a +2 deflection bonus to AC and a +2 resistance bonus on saves. Both these bonuses apply against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures.
Second, the subject immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against any spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects). This saving throw is made with a +2 morale bonus, using the same DC as the original effect. If successful, such effects are suppressed for the duration of this spell. The effects resume when the duration of this spell expires. While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target. This spell does not expel a controlling life force (such as a ghost or spellcaster using magic jar), but it does prevent them from controlling the target. This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion.
Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by evil summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Summoned creatures that are not evil are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. Spell resistance can allow a creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature.
This is not the complete/total/absolute immunity that it used to be. The spell has been hit with the nerfhammer quite hard. And it needed it, too.
-S
(SL 1 x CL 1 x 2000) = 2,000 gp
Duration 1m/level = 2,000 x 2 modifier = 4,000 gp base
Use a Magic item Slot = 4,000 (prevent other item from going into that slot)
Does not use a Magic item Slot = Modifier: 2 x 4,000 gp = 8,000 gp
........................
Protection from Good...= 4,000 gp slotted = 8,000 gp un-slotted.
Protection from Evil...= 4,000 gp slotted = 8,000 gp un-slotted.
Protection form Law....= 4,000 gp slotted = 8,000 gp un-slotted.
Protection from Chaos..= 4,000 gp slotted = 8,000 gp un-slotted.
Net effect
= Used up 4 magic item slots and spent 16,000 for 4 magic items
or
= Used up no magic item slots and spent 32,000 for 4 magic items
or
Making one magic item to do it all ( 100% on most costly, 75% on second most costly, and 50% on each remainder magic effect that is of similar effect)
4,000 = 100% = 4,000
4,000 = 75% = 3,000
4,000 = 50% = 2,000
4,000 = 50% = 2,000
Total cost = 11,000 gp for sloted magic item = 22,000 for one un-sloted magic item.
Caster Level of Item vs Dispel & Saving Throw vs Being Destroyed = CL 1
Lastly: If fighting a Lawful Good creature, the bonus would not stack with themselves. So you only get the bonus once.
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Restriction = Would require the wear/user of item, to have the item for 24 hours, before gain the benefits of the said item. This is to prevent item sharing vs saving throws.
The caster level of a magic item is suppose to represent the relative power of the item, so caster level of 1 is obviously to low.
The magic item creation rules suggest that the caster level may have a minimum set by other prerequisites of the item's creation besides the minimum caster level to cast the spell. For instance, for a circlet created with Craft Wondrous Item, the feat has a prerequisite of Caster Level 3. This helps bring the Market Price of a "circlet of protection from evil" more in line with what I think is "right".
1 (spell level) x 3 (caster level) x 2000 x 2 (for 1 min/lvl) = 12,000 gp.
A ring created with Forge Ring has a prerequisite of Caster Level 7 and would have a Market Price of:
1 (spell level) x 7 (caster level) x 2000 x 2 (for 1 min/lvl) = 28,000 gp.
I also agree with the other posts that suggest the item should be worn for 24 hours before the wearer gains the protection benefits to prevent sharing of the item.
Spoiler:Making one magic item to do it all ( 100% on most costly, 75% on second most costly, and 50% on each remainder magic effect that is of similar effect)4,000 = 100% = 4,000
4,000 = 75% = 3,000
4,000 = 50% = 2,000
4,000 = 50% = 2,000Total cost = 11,000 gp for sloted magic item = 22,000 for one un-sloted magic item.
Caster Level of Item vs Dispel & Saving Throw vs Being Destroyed = CL 1
Lastly: If fighting a Lawful Good creature, the bonus would not stack with themselves. So you only get the bonus once.
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Restriction = Would require the wear/user of item, to have the item for 24 hours, before gain the benefits of the said item. This is to prevent item sharing vs saving throws.
The discount for similar effects only applies to slotless items. This means that the cost for a single-slot item would be 16K. In either case, True Neutral creatures and unaligned sources (i.e. traps) would not be included, so you would need to jack up the cost even more to make the effect universal.
Overall, I would say 20,000 GP for a single-slot CL1 item granting:
Don't allow this as a slotless item, because the value of the save & AC bonuses would equal the total item cost. And I agree with those who suggested the 24-hour activation requirement, for multiple reasons. (Ghost trap anyone?)
P.S. Sorry for the long resurrection.