WoW RPG decides to go with Pathfinder


Conversions

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It is the endless cycle of development for online games and RPGs, so 4E takes some common elements from online games, pathfinder takes some common elements from 4E, the online games incorporates these changes into their rules, rinse and repeat.

If the WoW RPG was previously released using D20, or 3.5, the next progession would be Pathfinder, even for a homebrew.

I personally do not want to play a RPG of the same game I play online, but if you like it, don't let me sway you.


ProfessorCirno wrote:

Just once I'd like to see someone say "4e is like an MMO/cRPG, because of this thing I noticed when I was playing it and gave it an honest chance without preconceptions" rather then "I heard from someone this thing in the book is like this other thing I heard from someone is in an MMORPG."

The problem with that is that people who didn't like 4E, they read it, they tried it, they went '..the hell?' They put it down. And they didn't play it again.

People who liked it have (presumably) been playing it for a while.

And now, three years later, you expect a written thesis that document the specific points we disliked. Sorry, but it's been three years. I don't have the books any more. Good luck with that. :p

For what it's worth (and I'm sure you don't care. Heck, I hardly care), I was really looking forward to 4E (though, to be fair, largely due to being mislead by SW:SE's awesomeness). I bought the three-book pack. I read it. I went "...oookay." I gave it a try anyway. It didn't put my doubts to rest. I put it down.

My only preconception was that 'this is looking great!'. Which, sadly, it didn't. I got the "this feels like a video game" vibe from the game long before reading about it on the internet (and kinda kept it to myself because it felt silly, and the people posting that kind of comments seemed like very knee-jerk types).

But it didn't go away. I won't play 4E. In fact, 4E is the first game I've seen where I'd say no thanks if a bunch of mates asked me to join. That's saying something! I'm a little sad that I'm not playing D&D any more, but then I remember that Pathfinder is D&D, and everything is right with the world again.

I still think SW:SE is the game 4E should have been. It was a big step away from 3e, but not far enough to feel alien. I'd have loved to see what that 4E could have developed into.

Ah well.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Slaunyeh wrote:
ProfessorCirno wrote:

Just once I'd like to see someone say "4e is like an MMO/cRPG, because of this thing I noticed when I was playing it and gave it an honest chance without preconceptions" rather then "I heard from someone this thing in the book is like this other thing I heard from someone is in an MMORPG."

The problem with that is that people who didn't like 4E, they read it, they tried it, they went '..the hell?' They put it down. And they didn't play it again.

People who liked it have (presumably) been playing it for a while.

And now, three years later, you expect a written thesis that document the specific points we disliked. Sorry, but it's been three years. I don't have the books any more. Good luck with that. :p

For what it's worth (and I'm sure you don't care. Heck, I hardly care), I was really looking forward to 4E (though, to be fair, largely due to being mislead by SW:SE's awesomeness). I bought the three-book pack. I read it. I went "...oookay." I gave it a try anyway. It didn't put my doubts to rest. I put it down.

My only preconception was that 'this is looking great!'. Which, sadly, it didn't. I got the "this feels like a video game" vibe from the game long before reading about it on the internet (and kinda kept it to myself because it felt silly, and the people posting that kind of comments seemed like very knee-jerk types).

But it didn't go away. I won't play 4E. In fact, 4E is the first game I've seen where I'd say no thanks if a bunch of mates asked me to join. That's saying something! I'm a little sad that I'm not playing D&D any more, but then I remember that Pathfinder is D&D, and everything is right with the world again.

I still think SW:SE is the game 4E should have been. It was a big step away from 3e, but not far enough to feel alien. I'd have loved to see what that 4E could have developed into.

Ah well.

This. The only difference between your experience and mine is I never actually played the game. I bought (pre-ordered even) all 3 core books and bought the FR stuff. My roomate particiapated in an unveling event at a FLGS, and came home raving about how playing a fighter felt cinematic and it was "awesome sauce". When I recieved the books, I took them and read them, a chapter at a time. I didn't get out of the classes section, when I read what wizards now did (or more to the point didn't do). I put the book down, and haven't picked it up since.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
ProfessorCirno wrote:
I started no war, my good sir. But I did start fighting when it broke out around me.

And sometimes, the only way to win is to stop.


Slaunyeh wrote:

Maybe calling 4E an MMO isn't accurate. But it does feel like it was designed to be easily converted into a CPRPG. It's strong on mechanics (that don't have to make any in-game sense since, hey, it's just a game) and it's weak on that pesky concept of choice that makes a good computer game implementation so difficult to pull off.

D&D has had some decent success in the CRPG market in the past 15 years. Why not design a system that's more compatible with that market segment?

I don't know if that's the thought behind it, but 4E would be a great system if I wanted to design a computer game. I'd totally play a CRPG using this system, as much as I'd hate playing it as a TT game.

Actualy it was a major design point to be more easily ported over to other media accoding to the designers. So that thought was definitly there for the creators.

But I have never said MMO feel is neccessarily a bad thing. Let be honest here...all RPGs have a MMO feel to them...why? Because MMOs stole from the TTRPGs. The fact that it goes both ways is understandable. And in my opinion alot of the design of 4th ed was based on WoW(which a good idea since everybody loves WoW). So I thought it was odd that the person had problems converting WoW to 4th ed.


John Kretzer wrote:
And in my opinion alot of the design of 4th ed was based on WoW(which a good idea since everybody loves WoW). So I thought it was odd that the person had problems converting WoW to 4th ed.

Maybe your opinion in this matter is incorrect? I played WoW for 2 years and I can't find a single thread that connects it and 4e. Other then that they're both games.


ProfessorCirno wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:
And in my opinion alot of the design of 4th ed was based on WoW(which a good idea since everybody loves WoW). So I thought it was odd that the person had problems converting WoW to 4th ed.
Maybe your opinion in this matter is incorrect? I played WoW for 2 years and I can't find a single thread that connects it and 4e. Other then that they're both games.

You are making this thread an edition war. Your opinion is that you aren't, but you're opinion is wrong.

Please. Just. Stop.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
ProfessorCirno wrote:
I started no war, my good sir. But I did start fighting when it broke out around me.
And sometimes, the only way to win is to stop.

This children is why we cant have good things... because some people have to keep it going... Any more edition dick waving I am flagging posts and I don't care if its pro 4E or PRPG. I am sick of this s!+!.


Blerg. Post an interesting item and it devolves into an edition war. Ferchissakes you editionistas, why don't you go take a walk in the fresh air or something? IT'S A FREAKIN' GAME!

Gary? Ross? Do me a favor and shut this thing down?


My name is Ed and I approve of this thread.


smurf yet?


collateral damage is to be expected.

Katanas are bastard swords. I should know; I'm an SCAer.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
ProfessorCirno wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:
And in my opinion alot of the design of 4th ed was based on WoW(which a good idea since everybody loves WoW). So I thought it was odd that the person had problems converting WoW to 4th ed.
Maybe your opinion in this matter is incorrect? I played WoW for 2 years and I can't find a single thread that connects it and 4e. Other then that they're both games.

2 years? Lulz, casual.


smurfnow?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Depends on how much of those two years were contiguous there Gorb. ;)


nowsmurf?


Two to three. From the start of the game to being off and on at BC. Left around Wrath; too much real life getting in the way ;p

Also why is it only an edition war when someone is actively not insulting 4e? I'm not exactly bad mouthing any edition, here.

Liberty's Edge

The 8th Dwarf wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
ProfessorCirno wrote:
I started no war, my good sir. But I did start fighting when it broke out around me.
And sometimes, the only way to win is to stop.
This children is why we cant have good things... because some people have to keep it going... Any more edition dick waving I am flagging posts and I don't care if its pro 4E or PRPG. I am sick of this s&@@.

Yes.

I flagged the first post in this thread that looked like it was heading down the edition war path but nothing seemed to have come of it (not your opening post obviously Pat, one a few after that).

If someone else is being a jerk you don't need to argue with them.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
ProfessorCirno wrote:
Also why is it only an edition war when someone is actively not insulting 4e?

Who said that?


TriOmegaZero wrote:
ProfessorCirno wrote:
Also why is it only an edition war when someone is actively not insulting 4e?
Who said that?

Papa Smurf. He ALWAYS says that.


ProfessorCirno wrote:


Also why is it only an edition war when someone is actively not insulting 4e? I'm not exactly bad mouthing any edition, here.

I'm sorry, but.....is this Jimmy Carter? This sounds like something so dorky only he could've said it.


Just remember what Papa Smurf always says.

SMURF UP with the 4e....

the pwoer of Cthulu Smurf compels you


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:
ProfessorCirno wrote:


Also why is it only an edition war when someone is actively not insulting 4e? I'm not exactly bad mouthing any edition, here.
I'm sorry, but.....is this Jimmy Carter? This sounds like something so dorky only he could've said it.

No, silly. Jimmy Carter would have started talking about the mating habits of Camels in relation to an edition war. Or is that Gary Busey? I get them confused...


ProfessorCirno wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:
And in my opinion alot of the design of 4th ed was based on WoW(which a good idea since everybody loves WoW). So I thought it was odd that the person had problems converting WoW to 4th ed.
Maybe your opinion in this matter is incorrect? I played WoW for 2 years and I can't find a single thread that connects it and 4e. Other then that they're both games.

I have played WoW for about 3 years...I saw a couple of things that 4th ed 'stole' from WoW.

1) The heavy relaiance on roles(Leader, Defender, etc.) while one could argue there were always there in D&D...there were not as locked into the system till 4th ed came alone...IE you could actualy build a generalist character in 3.5 and be just fine.

2) Build types...a archer ranger or a fire wizard...etc are very similiar to the different specs in WoW.

Now I am not saying they did not exist in D&D before...but they were not as prevalent in the system and actualy really not neccessary...but in 4th ed they are sorta very much hard wired into the game...mostly because I think of WoW's influence.

Oh...and the Eladarin just looked like the stole some of WoW blood elves art.


ProfessorCirno wrote:


Also why is it only an edition war when someone is actively not insulting 4e? I'm not exactly bad mouthing any edition, here.

I agree...who is insulting 4th ed? I am not.


Pale wrote:


And is there an ignore function?

Sort of. The boards themselves don't have any, but there is a script you can use. You'll need Firefox and the Greasemonkey plugin, as well as the script.

You'll find the script HERE.

I really did wish that the boards themselves had an ignore feature, since I usually don't use Firefox. But I do for the Paizo boards, just so I can use that ignore feature.


If the info is true and stays true then congrats to PF, hope it raises the income.
Also I welcome well-made material.

However in my humble opinion, WoW is evil, and I will not buy any of their books/products, whatever. No offense to any WoW player here.


<laugh> none taken. To each their own. <grin>


I played WoW in beta and after its release for 2 years for about 5 hours aday 5 days a week. I was there when Onyxia and Ragnaros were killed for the first time in Europe ever on alliance side (no Shamans back then).

I preordered the 4th edition of D&D along with the "Desgin-Preview-Books" and DMed a campaign to Level 15 from the second it came out while being a DM for over 20 years before.

IMHO, 4ed has been designed to tune down the enormous number of rules exceptions and common sense/houserules that are needed for any good 3.5 campaign. This, in return, let the game feel much more "scripted" in a way that MMOs are, but doesn't necessarily mean that 4ed was developed as an MMO clone.

From the sole perspective of design and development 4ed makes much more sense for the basis of an WoW P&P RPG than Pathfinder because it is nearer, designwise, to the original and thus easier to digest for the MMO crowed (if these could swayed away from the keyboard at all).

So for me the sentence

Quote:
Anyways bad news. The WoW 4th is a no go. The 4th edition system is impossible to balance. Too many factors.

is simply weak as the balancing in Pathfinder is much harder than in 4ed unless you take houseruling/handwaving for granted (which, from a design standpoint, you should never do but is exactly what makes the game the game we all love).

Leaves me doubtful if the claims that are made in this post have any substance at all.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Urizen wrote:
LazarX wrote:
I got the whole nine yards including the older Warcraft RPG books and the last book to be published for the WOW RPG... Dark Factions.

I had come across a previous version of the WoW RPG ruleset for 3.0, but I left it on the shelf since I deemed it an unnecessary purchase as I already owned the 3.5 version.

Actually those books contain a lot of settings material which is complementary to the material published for the latter edition.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ShadowcatX wrote:

Why do people think that 4e resembling an MMO is a bad thing? Some people like that kind of thing.

Arguments can be made that 4th Edition game plays like the Warcraft and Everquest MMORGs. About the same number of arguments can be made for Pathfinder and any version of Dungeons and Dragons. Because after all many of the MMORGS use Dungeons and Dragons as their thematic template. :)

Liberty's Edge

LazarX wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:

Why do people think that 4e resembling an MMO is a bad thing? Some people like that kind of thing.

Arguments can be made that 4th Edition game plays like the Warcraft and Everquest MMORGs. About the same number of arguments can be made for Pathfinder and any version of Dungeons and Dragons. Because after all many of the MMORGS use Dungeons and Dragons as their thematic template. :)

If you'd quoted my whole post you'd have noticed that I pointed that out specifically because I play DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online). :)~

Some people like 4th edition. Some like Pathfinder. Let's just all agree to each their own and wish everyone happy gaming.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread, because it hasn't really been on topic for about a page. Feel free to make a new thread about the Pathfinder WoW game, without an edition war this time.

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