Well, since anything done to a character, whether purchases or things that require dice rolls, such as checks to learn spells or to teach animals tricks, has to be done during or at the end of a session and witnessed by a GM, I would say no if he is not using that character in a scenario.
I also haven't heard anyone address whether GMs can train a pet when using a GM credit.no offense meant, i meant i haven't heard anyone official chime in on it with an answer.
if pfs guide requires you to only be able to train animals between games, and our faithful gms are busy running games for us, we're shafting them by not letting them train at least one trick between games when they apply certs to their characters. it isn't a day job, its not increasing the gold they have or resources. its completing the training on a class feature they possess.
And even if the result takes place between scenarios, the actual dice rolling still must be witnessed by a GM. That rule applies to players and GMs.
Venture-Agent, Virginia—Hampton Roads
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I'm sorry, but what would you expect to see?
A less than expected number of druid players perhaps? We've heard this from others talking about their regions of the country and it's true for them.
So I guess my first question is, in those 350+ tables of games, how many druid characters have you seen?
-James
I have seen four total druids. Three of which are either dead or no longer played as those players either transferred (Military town here) or wanted to play other classes as the druid is lack luster for the PFS environment.
My one active druid use his PC when he can play a table of his level which I think is level 5 or 6 now.
The druid is less played because it isn't well suited for PFS play. All four druids made there PC's for their first PFS character. No one here in Norfolk, Va has made a druid after they have played some.
Summoner is the better Pet Class.
Cleric is a better divine caster class for PFS play.
Druid abilities which are rarely used in PFS play. Wild Empathy, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step. You don't get wild shape until the 1/2 point of your PFS play (Level 6) and most players considered yet rather nerfed.
Druid itself isn't what it its glory days of 3.5 but it is still a good class for a standard home game. For PFS play the scenario's rarely make it class that shines compared to a Wizard or a fighter.
What Can Paizo do to fix this? I think druids should have a bonus to handle handle animal that is related to their druid class level.
I don't even think they should fix the druid per say. At this point the druid is so lack luster in PFS play that I am fine with them having fully trained animals when replaced. Players just need to make sure they understand what tricks there AC has and what they need to do with them.
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Venture-Agent, Virginia—Hampton Roads
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Yes even when Animal Companion's were wielding Great Axe's and other weapons and were deemed way to powerful. We didn't see that type of abuse here. So no we didn't see the problem. So these nerfs to various classes always seems a tad extreme in our area.
Especially to a class with very little play. So why all the fuss? That is the general consensus from my players as most don't read the forum.
I think at this point Mark has plenty of input to make his ruling if he deems anything needs changing again.
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I had a thought... Mark said the reason there are harsh limits on training is because time isn´t a currency in PFS, but money is (for other class abilities and stuff you can just buy).
This kind of is a tangent to the concept of buying NPC training for your companion (which seems pretty straight forward and 100% legal for at least some animals, like riding dogs, which are listed in the Core Equipment guide with combat trained/untrained prices):
Could/should Handle Animal be a valid Day Job roll, but instead of gaining gp to spend on other stuff, you are rewarded with adding tricks to a companion / normal animal? The gp value (as if it were a Day Job roll) could determine the number of tricks taught, and it is directly dependent on Handle Animal skill modifier, not pure CHA score, and if you max out the skill you would reliably be able to add multiple tricks faster. Thoughts?
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handle animal as either a day job, training animals for others in your downtime, or being able to train up your own animal based on the DC you hit with your handle animal check is very reasonable.
it doesn't penalize someone with good ranks in the skill and a poor ability score. Druids and Rangers that want to take an animal would be able to get him trained to usefulness fairly quickly, and would have a useful skill for dayjobs when they already have a fully trained animal.
I would like to suggest Stables still. in game, the society has enough use for guides and druids to be able to stable some animals for them for a price. 50gp / animal isn't too much, one time fee when the animal is stabled. this way players could "bank" their fully trained animal, and begin training another animal, against the unfortunate eventuality that their pet passes away. it also lets them try out other animals if that fits their characters desires.
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I've been out of the loop for the past 75 posts or so, but I just want to say as a ranger with an AC - A low for my level spellcaster could pop my AC with one spell *cough fail on cloudkill at gencon cough* and I'll never have this part of my character back at full power as he is now 10th level (2/3 to 11th), where if I had chosen to share my favored bonuses instead, it would still be at full functionality...
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only recently saw the sorcerer bloodline that allows an animal companion. curiously it just says they gain an animal companion, doesn't limit what type of companion they get. i wonder why rangers get so much hate and get a limited animal companion choice list and can't choose any of the expanded animal companions.
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Copy spells - unlimited.
Alchemical crafting - unlimited.
Animal Training - 1/session.Copy spells (monetary cost, Spellcraft check required, failure prevents copying until next level) - unlimited
Alchemical crafting (monetary cost, Craft (alchemy) check required) - unlimited.
Animal Training (no monetary cost, Handle Animal check required) - 1/session.Each of these has at least two costs if we include time as a commodity. Pathfinder Society Organized Play does not use time as a commodity. In the case of both scribing spells into spellbooks and alchemy, the monetary cost remains, while training an animal would have only a skill check. The limit on number of tricks one can learn per session is to compensate for the removal of the secondary cost in this specific case. We currently have no plans on changing this, as it has worked fine up until now. People only started complaining about it when they discovered they needed to train their Int 3 animal companions.
Did the animal training rules really work fine? The big reason (to my knowledge) people increased their companion's int was to bypass these rules.
Also, spellbooks aren't threatened during combat in the same way animal companions are. When a wizard copies a spell into their spellbook they can rely on that spell being accessible to them forever. Yes, something could happen to a wizard's spellbook but that's rare, unlike an animal companion that's expected to be in the line of fire often.
Tricks are tied to a companion and not a character. This is the part you're missing and why the above cost (ie one trick per session) is excessive and hurts the character when bad things will happen to their animal companion.
A few extra bonus tricks at first level could solve this problem.