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Tark's Big Holy Book of Clerical Optimization


Advice

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MyTThor wrote:

Actually I was going to go Cleric7/HV1/Inquisitor1 so I'd have 4th level spells and then HV then instead of back to cleric for the domain power going Inquisitor gets it for me.

So thinking Cleric7/HV1/Inq1/HV again (not sure if I want to take it all the way or not) I'd be losing the caster level and the BAB but BAB is partially offset by the judgement (for 1 fight per day only). Like you said 4th level is the kicka$$ buffs so with the proficiencies I'm good for battle clericking and the spellcasting can somewhat wait.

It's an idea but not one I'm fond of. If you think it's worth it theres very little I cna tell you to convince you otherwise.

I have not Inner Sea Magic at all and doubt I'll be getting it being a full 5$ more for pdf than ultimate combat. It sounds strong and the channele energy progression is certainly not a bad thign to lose. I'd have to look at ti with more detail to get a better idea but that might be a while.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TarkXT wrote:

Why do I keep repeating myself? Maybe it's better if you jsut read the ability.

Forbidden Schools for wizardsA wizard that chooses to specialize in one school of
magic must select two other schools as his opposition
schools, representing knowledge sacrificed in one area
of arcane lore to gain mastery in another. A wizard who
prepares spells from his opposition schools must use two
spell slots of that level to prepare the spell. For example,
a wizard with evocation as an opposition school must
expend two of his available 3rd-level spell slots to prepare
a fireball. In addition, a specialist takes a –4 penalty on any
skill checks made when crafting a magic item that has a
spell from one of his opposition schools as a prerequisite.
A universalist wizard can prepare spells from any school
without restriction.

See he didn't lose anything. At most he gave up a spell slot for that spell he absolutely has to have.

I know this is from forever ago, but now for the cost of two feats even this penalty can be removed, making specialist wizards even more desirable. You have to be at least 9th level, but still...


Since the Divine Scion PrC is OGC, I'll post the relevant bits here. The full progression table is a bit big, but it uses d8 HD, 3/4 BAB and strong Will progression.

To qualify to become a divine scion, a character must
fulfill all the following criteria.
Feats: Iron Will, Weapon Focus (deity’s favored weapon)
Skills: Knowledge (planes) 5 ranks, Knowledge (religion)
5 ranks, Spellcraft 5 ranks
Spells: Able to cast divine spells.
Deity: Must have a patron deity.
Alignment: Must be identical to patron deity’s.

The divine scion’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Diplomacy (Cha), Fly (Dex), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Ranks at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

The following are class features of the divine scion
prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A divine scion gains no additional weapon or armor proficiencies. She can select Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Greater Weapon Specialization as feats once she qualifies for them normally (although she does not have to fulfill
the prerequisite of having fighter levels in order to select these feats).

Opposition Alignment (Ex): A divine scion must pick one of the following alignment subtypes as her opposition alignment: chaotic, evil, good, or law. The opposition alignment she chooses must be one that she does not possess as part of her own alignment. She gains a +1 bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance of creatures with that alignment subtype.

Domain Specialization (Su): At 3rd level, a divine scion selects a domain granted by her deity—this domain becomes the divine scion’s chosen specialization in representing her deity. Although most divine scions pick domains that they’ve gained from other classes (such as
cleric), they don’t have to do so. Every time a divine scion casts a domain spell from her specialized domain, she heals damage equal to twice the spell’s level.
In addition, each domain specialization grants a spell-like ability (which functions at a caster level equal to the divine scion’s total character level) and a permanent sacred bonus (or profane, if the divine scion is evil) on a single type of d20 roll. The specific spell-like abilities and bonuses granted are listed below. Spells marked with an asterisk (*) are detailed in the Advanced Player’s Guide, while spells marked with two asterisks (**) are detailed in Ultimate Magic.

Air: fly 1/day; +4 on Fly checks
Animal: beast shape I 1/day; +4 on Handle Animal checks
Artifice: crafter’s fortune* 3/day; +4 on Craft checks
Chaos: detect law constant ; +2 on Will saves
Charm: beguiling gift* 3/day; +4 on Diplomacy checks
Community: tongues 1/day; +4 on Diplomacy checks
Darkness: shadow weapon** 3/day; +4 on Perception checks
Death: murderous command** 3/day; +2 on Fortitude saves
Destruction: break* 3/day; +4 on Intimidate checks
Earth: stone fist* 3/day; +4 on Survival checks
Evil: detect good constant; +2 on Will saves
Fire: flame arrow 1/day; +4 on Acrobatics checks
Glory: archon’s aura** 1/day; +4 on Intimidate checks
Good: detect evil constant; +2 on Will saves
Healing: symbol of healing** 1/day; +4 on Heal checks
Knowledge: identify 3/day; +4 on Knowledge checks (choose one)
Law: detect chaos constant; +2 on Will saves
Liberation: remove sickness** 3/day; +4 on Escape Artist checks
Luck: divine favor 3/day; +2 on Reflex saves
Madness: fumbletongue** 3/day; +4 on Bluff checks
Magic: detect magic constant; +4 on Spellcraft checks
Nobility: command 1/day; +4 on Diplomacy checks
Plant: speak with plants 1/day; +2 on Fortitude saves
Protection: wrathful mantle* 1/day; +1 to Armor Class
Repose: sanctify corpse 3/day; +2 on Fortitude saves
Rune: comprehend languages 3/day; +4 on Linguistics checks
Scalykind: summon nature’s ally III (reptilian creatures only), 1/day; +2 on Reflex saves
Strength: burst bonds* 3/day; +4 on combat maneuver checks
Sun: daylight 1/day; +4 on Perception checks
Travel: expeditious retreat 3/day; +4 on Acrobatics checks
Trickery: glibness 1/day; +4 on Stealth checks
Void: deeper darkness 1/day; +4 on concentration checks
War: true strike 3/day; +1 on weapon damage rolls
Water: water walk 1/day; +4 on Swim checks
Weather: cloak of winds* 1/day; +4 on Survival checks

Divine Wrath (Su): At 4th level, a divine scion’s damaging spells deal +1 point of damage per die against creatures with an alignment subtype that matches the divine scion’s opposition alignment.

Deific Defense (Su): At 7th level, a divine scion gains DR 2, bypassed by attacks with the alignment subtype of her opposition alignment (so a divine scion with “evil” as her opposition alignment gains DR 2/evil).

Divine Awe (Su): At 8th level, a divine scion’s spells can stagger creatures that match the alignment subtypes of the divine scion’s opposition alignment. When such a creature is affected by a divine scion’s spell, it is staggered for 1 round if it fails its save against that spell. If the creature makes its save (or if the spell doesn’t allow a saving throw), this ability has no effect.

True Scion: At 10th level, a divine scion becomes a true scion of her deity. The amount of healing she gains from her domain specialization doubles. Her divine wrath ability now deals +2 points of damage per die against creatures of the appropriate alignment. The damage reduction granted by her deific defense increases to 5. Finally, she permanently increases her Wisdom or Charisma score (her choice) by +1.


Does this prestige class continue to progress domain powers?


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TarkXT wrote:
Does this prestige class continue to progress domain powers?

It would appear not, but I suspect that was an oversight.

Link to question to be FAQd.


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Looks like Theologian will be the best to enter that class, since they can prep domain spells in non-domain slots.


What domains would be best? Given the nature of the other powers, this PrC seems more oriented towards a 'blaster' sort of cleric, rather than a martial one, weapon specialization options notwithstanding.

So what domains have damaging domain spells that one would cast repeatedly? A Fire domain cleric might be interesting. Especially since a theologian could have Fireball automatically Intensified. 15d6+30 isn't bad for a 3rd level spell.

Shadow Lodge

I'll have to read the actual class when I get a chance, but based off of what was written above, Divine Scion looks a lot better for Oracles than it does Clerics. Especially if you don't actually have to have the Domain itself, just spells from a Domain.

A Life Oracle (Healing) could basically super heal themselves (or others) super fast.

Elemental/Distruction Domains could also be a problem.


Are Oracles considered to have a patron deity? And yes, it doesn't require that you actually have the domain. Though the lack of channel progression might hurt a Life Oracle a bit.

Though oracles seem better suited for a divine 'blaster', so they might get more out of it.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
SunsetPsychosis wrote:

Are Oracles considered to have a patron deity? And yes, it doesn't require that you actually have the domain. Though the lack of channel progression might hurt a Life Oracle a bit.

Though oracles seem better suited for a divine 'blaster', so they might get more out of it.

No i don't think have a patron deity.

Shadow Lodge

Anyone can have a patron deity according to the traits section, and I believe it specifies Oracles can.


Beckett wrote:

I'll have to read the actual class when I get a chance, but based off of what was written above, Divine Scion looks a lot better for Oracles than it does Clerics. Especially if you don't actually have to have the Domain itself, just spells from a Domain.

A Life Oracle (Healing) could basically super heal themselves (or others) super fast.

Elemental/Distruction Domains could also be a problem.

That appears to be the case. What's funny is it appears you don't even need the domain you specialize in for a cleric. Oracle's would find it easier to get into with their skill points.

Overall I agree that ti seems to work best with the theoligian. It's heavily spellcasting focused and focused on damage besides.


So just letting people know I'm soing a bit of "sprucing up" as it were going through and correcting errors I find elaborating on the subdomain section as I promised long ago. If anyone had any issues or caught any errors in their reading of the document I encourage them to step forward and say their piece. Ignore the men with swords, they are here for decoration.

Shadow Lodge

TarkXT wrote:
So just letting people know I'm soing a bit of "sprucing up" as it were going through and correcting errors I find elaborating on the subdomain section as I promised long ago. If anyone had any issues or caught any errors in their reading of the document I encourage them to step forward and say their piece. Ignore the men with swords, they are here for decoration.

i dont know if its an error or not, but you said in the beginning that a cleric should keep slots open for later... but it says in the rules a cleric needs to prepare the spells while preying druing the hour chosen when you make the character.

am i misreading it?


TheSideKick wrote:
TarkXT wrote:
So just letting people know I'm soing a bit of "sprucing up" as it were going through and correcting errors I find elaborating on the subdomain section as I promised long ago. If anyone had any issues or caught any errors in their reading of the document I encourage them to step forward and say their piece. Ignore the men with swords, they are here for decoration.

i dont know if its an error or not, but you said in the beginning that a cleric should keep slots open for later... but it says in the rules a cleric needs to prepare the spells while preying druing the hour chosen when you make the character.

am i misreading it?

See

Quote:


A divine spellcaster selects and prepares spells ahead of time through prayer and meditation at a particular time of day. The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour), as is the requirement for a relatively peaceful environment. When preparing spells for the day, a cleric can leave some of her spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes. During these extra sessions of preparation, she can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if she prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.

Not an error, simply something that doesn't get used nearly as often.


Just curious, not sure if this is an error or what;

in the gods section, when rating weapons, you rate Scimitar as blue for Sarenrae but Rapier as orange for Cayden. Aren't they essentially the same weapon? I guess DR/Slashing is more common than DR/Piercing but I don't see another reason to rank Scimitar higher.


MyTThor wrote:

Just curious, not sure if this is an error or what;

in the gods section, when rating weapons, you rate Scimitar as blue for Sarenrae but Rapier as orange for Cayden. Aren't they essentially the same weapon? I guess DR/Slashing is more common than DR/Piercing but I don't see another reason to rank Scimitar higher.

Dervish Dance mainly. Plus you can two hand a scimitar which is something you cant do with a rapier. The only thing rapier has going for it is Weapon Finnesse which is to say pretty much nothing.


TarkXT wrote:
MyTThor wrote:

Just curious, not sure if this is an error or what;

in the gods section, when rating weapons, you rate Scimitar as blue for Sarenrae but Rapier as orange for Cayden. Aren't they essentially the same weapon? I guess DR/Slashing is more common than DR/Piercing but I don't see another reason to rank Scimitar higher.

Dervish Dance mainly. Plus you can two hand a scimitar which is something you cant do with a rapier. The only thing rapier has going for it is Weapon Finnesse which is to say pretty much nothing.

I can't imagine dervish dance being a feat many clerics would take. A two feat investment to be able to use a secondary (at best) ability score for combat? If you're even overly concerned with to-hit and damage, your strength is already going to be decent, probably better than your dex.

Plus from my personal experience with cleric I can't imagine finding 2 skill points to put in perform (dance). I still don't see much of a difference.

However, I don't mean to take anything away from your guide; I really love it.

Grand Lodge

Thanks for moving to touch it up


Finally went through and reassesed some thigns in the domains also copy/pasted the druid domains adn inquisitions since those are options for clerics as well (with GM approval) I'll have to go through and reasses those. However I doubt there will be much change in the inquisitions. There's sadly very very little for a cleric to gain by them.


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Conversion isn't terribad.

Isn't too good either though, but of the bunch, I think it's the best candidate.


Cheapy wrote:

Conversion isn't terribad.

Isn't too good either though, but of the bunch, I think it's the best candidate.

Some of the inquisitions are pretty good. The issue I take with them is that they don't offer clerics anything in terms of spells which is really one of the biggest strengths in domains: giving you spells you don't otherwise have.

Anyway, the sprucing up progresses slowly. Sickness and obligatiosn to editors have slowed things down considerably but progress is being made. It will go faster once I'm done reassessing all the domains. The subdomains are finished just plowing through the druid ones.

So, as to my next guide? I initially wanted to do one on necromancy and that might still happen somewhere down the road. However I'm stiltrying to figure out a proper approach to it. That bein said I did decide to start work on a guide for someone who doesn't have a proper guide yet. Namely, Cavaliers. I was going to do rogues but...well the only thing you can do for rogues to make them half way decent in combat in terms of build is to either focus on fear debuffing (Thug) or on stabbing (Knife Master/Scout) I looked hard in the talents and ninja tricks and while there are some decent thigns to do there's nothing nearly on par with anything an equivalent class like say, bards. So rather than an exercise in pain I decided to take a look at a truly underrated class and go from there.


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Cav/Sam archers are great. Smite Whatever The Hell You Want works well with all those arrows.

Andoran

thomas nelson wrote:
I have to protest the defense rating of red, the inclusion of Shield and Barkskin gives you solid protection that is valuable at all levels and not normally available to clerics and the ability is simply not very powerful not useless like a real red domain power is.

I will agree here. I am running a Theologian Cleric with the Defense Domain. He focuses on summoning with Spell Focus(Conjuration), Augment Summoning, and Superior Summoning. He has point blank shot and precise shot to allow some damage when he is between casting spells and will be picking up Sacred Summons next feat. His stat priority is WIS->CHA->INT/DEX->CON->STR. I use Muleback Cords to allow me to dump STR while still being able to carry things.

This build allows me to run without needing an Amulet of Nat Armor, Ring of Protection, and Cloak of Protection which opens up more interesting and situationally useful items like a Phylactery of Positive Channeling or a Golembane Scarab.

The aura ability gives resistances and deflection bonus to AC for all my summons and is generally better than the bonus provided by the items my allies have. This guy focuses on summoning 1d4+1 creatures first round and starting his aura next round then uses backup spells and healing the rest of the time. When he can, he throws out some pre-combat buffs which last minutes per level.


Nipin wrote:
The aura ability gives resistances and deflection bonus to AC for all my summons and is generally better than the bonus provided by the items my allies have.

You do understand the two bonuses described are the two most common bonuses that clerics have right? In their spellcasting? With spells that scale? And can be used more than once per day?

You'll note in the spruce up that I've acknowledged that the spells themselves are pretty good but that's the only thing the domain has going for it.


The sprucing up is more or less done.

One thing I haven't managed to drag myself into doing is reviewing the ultimate combat spells. Overall they don't look bad but I've neither the time nor inclination to do it. So if someoen else would like to go through and go through them all I'll be glad to add it to the guide.

Actually same goes for any other material. So long as you stick to the format I'll add links to the intro page with author credit. That way we can really make it the "BIG" book.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Before my computers crashed, there was a 'design your own Cleric' formula that I can't seem to find. Anyone able to Link to it?


I think STR Ranger has a point regarding a channel based build. With each book addition its gotten better. We now have Versatile channeler, quick channel, etc. What has hurt the idea is that a melee based channel build was very mad. Not any more!

Check out the feat guided hand. The only pre-req is channel smite which fits very well with the concept. When using your gods favored weapon you can use Wis instead of Str or Dex. Yep, you can now play a two stat melee channeler. Just pump Wis and have a decent Cha and the world is yours. You get the same +hit as a STR cleric, the same high DC's on spells as a caster cleric, and lots of channel energies with a high DC.

I would love to see some sample builds with this....I have been thinking along the lines of a cleric of gorum with ferocity and glory as the domains. Wis to hit and a greatsword. Lots of potential!


Has anyone built an effective Wis/Cha melee channeler? Is the build viable from 1-??? I really hate waiting for that magic level for the build to start working
Is it viable in pfs? Can you squeeze all those feats in there?
Guided hand, channelsmite powerattack versatile channeler?
Aasimar anyone?


Sandbox wrote:

Has anyone built an effective Wis/Cha melee channeler? Is the build viable from 1-??? I really hate waiting for that magic level for the build to start working

Is it viable in pfs? Can you squeeze all those feats in there?
Guided hand, channelsmite powerattack versatile channeler?
Aasimar anyone?

The easiest way to make them effective from the get go is to be human. With 2 feats you can grab channel smite and guided hand. This way, at lvl 1, your not floundering for a few levels with a mid-low str.

Aasimar would make an awesome Wis/Cha Cleric if you can handle not meleeing for a couple levels.

Cheliax

Just read your guide, and I think you have done a good job.
Though I noticed, that you have forgotten the darkness and the strength variant channeling.


I noticed it only had the core 20 dieties. A lot of the eldest seem to have good domains but not the best weapons. Count Ranalc seems to have awesome domains choices and the okay weapon choice of rapier.


I'm confused as to why you would leave spell slots open.

Cleric Spells said wrote:

A cleric may prepare and cast any spell on the cleric spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation.

So wouldn't a blank spell slot just be wasted?


I feel like im quoting this in every thread lately.

PFSRD wrote:

Spell Selection and Preparation

A divine spellcaster selects and prepares spells ahead of time through prayer and meditation at a particular time of day. The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour), as is the requirement for a relatively peaceful environment. When preparing spells for the day, a cleric can leave some of her spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes. During these extra sessions of preparation, she can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if she prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.


So, I'm playing a Gozreh cleric right now, and having a lot of fun with it. I think the Wind and the Waves needs some more love than she's been given here. Maybe he's not the most optimal god, but depending on the type of cleric you want to build, and the needs of your party, she might end up being a really good fit.

Potentially lengthy justification:

Spoiler:

Alignment: Gozreh is True Neutral. That's a big selling point from an optimization perspective. Assuming you play your cleric as N as well, it means that you're not prevented from casting any cleric spells due to alignment. You're also not going to be smacked around hard by spells that target alignments. Your cleric won't set off any aura-detecting spells, which can be handy for stealth purposes. (Unless you're like me, and you take the birthmark trait and have your deity's holy symbol tattooed on your face. That was a flavour choice, though.)

The big advantage for a neutral deity is with channeling, though. First, you can pick whether you channel positive or negative energy, and whether you can spot cast cure or inflict spells. Then, you can have your cake and eat it, too, with the Versatile Channeler feat. Pick your channeling type, grab this feat, and channel the other type of energy as if you're a cleric two levels lower. Pick up a channeling phylactery, and the level drop won't really matter.

Weapon: I admit, I'm not an expert on weaponry. Still, a trident isn't terrible, and we can't all have a glaive. The gods with the best weapons are either good- or evil-aligned, and I'll happily trade an awesome favoured weapon for being channeling versatility.

Domains: Okay, hear me out on this one. Yes, 1d6 plus 1/2 cleric level blasts suck and probably won't get much use beyond early levels, but if you're starting play with your cleric starting at level one, those blasts can be useful, especially if your cleric isn't much use in melee. Nobody likes a 15-minute workday, and those blasts give you something to do in a fight until you've got more spells per day than you know what to do with. The Weather domain blast will retain usefulness longer, thanks to that 1-round no-save debuff that goes with the damage. Yeah, it's non-lethal damage, but you can still drop an enemy with it, and having an effective non-lethal attack can come in handy. It's usually better than fists, and can a cleric really afford a -4 to attack?

Some of Gozreh's subdomains offer more optimal choices. Think lightning resistance is pointless? Get another blast, instead. Don't like the non-lethal damage offered by the Weather domain? Get Endure Elements, instead. The Oceans and Wind subdomains offers nifty control abilities. People have been saying that the Growth subdomain power is also pretty good, though I'm not seeing it, myself, unless your cleric goes charging into battle.

The real beauty of the domains Gozreh offers are in the domain spells. So!

Spells: When it comes to battlefield control, Gozreh is king. Or queen. Whatever. If you like to control the field to give your own team the advantage, Gozreh is the deity for you. I mean, you were gonna prepare Obscuring Mist anyway, right? The Air domain gives you Wind Wall a level early, and this spell makes enemy archers weep. Like fog? Gozreh's got fog. There are some storm spells that can create difficult terrain and/or obscure perception. There's a wall or two on the list. You get the idea. There are some goodies here from the Druid list, in addition to spells a controller cleric ought to prep anyway (sometimes getting them early).

When I made my cleric, I was starting at level 3, and joining a party with a barbarian, a archer ranger, a sorcerer who focused on rays, and an ex-paladin-turned-fighter. The DM mentioned that they could use a cleric after the paladin broke his alignment. We had an arcane caster, but her spell selection meant that battlefield control might be lacking. If battlefield control is one of the things that makes a god-wizard, then a Gozreh cleric is like a god-cleric. With these domain spells, you're always going to have a control spell ready for whatever situation you find yourself in. Your party members will thank you, especially when they're not being turned into pin cushions.

The build types mentioned in the guide can probably find deities that might be more optimal. If you need a controller cleric who can optimize the battlefield for you while dishing out channels and a little blasting on the side, though, give Gozreh another look. He might surprise you. She'll definitely give you something to do in any given fight. and you might even find it a whole lot of fun to play.


A point for Pharasma - She has the domain necessary to make a useful offensive channelling build - Death. You can combine that with the domain that makes you a great band-aid - Healing. And since you are going to channel negative, instead of positive, the Healing domain spells don't suck so bad since you can't just spontaneously cast them anyway, plus they're being empowered, so you can at least partially make up for your inability to channel positive. If only you could get Restoration subdomain, it'd be even better. Plus I think the roleplay opportunities are cool - I'm seeing a slick, zen-like figure dressed all in black who's like the yin and yang of healing and death. High charisma and wisdom, weak constitution. Going Holy vindicator takes you even more down the path of channeling specialization and gives you the uber-groovy defense boost of vindicator's shield. Or hell you can even take a different domain besides healing and just use versatile channel to heal with.


The eastern deities should get mentioned in the "The gods" section.

My quick thoughts for the major ones

If General Susumu got the animal+feather domain (he is god of horses with a winger horse for a holy symbol for crying out loud) he would be amazing for the tactics+feather+longbow combo. Even without it, great weapon, Heroism, Tactics and to a lesser degree, Nobility,

Shizuru gives a good weapon, and a great domain (Heroism) but the rest of her domains are so so (though not terrible). I'd recommend asking the GM for Wolf domain (or Eagle refluffed as Raven) if not in PFS because she is a pretty shameless Amaterasu clone, and if they let you have it you can be a fantastic Battle Clerc/Support cleric. If you can't, a candidate for the archetypes that lose a domain.

Hei Feng is awful like his counterpart Gozreh. Awful domain choice, questionable weapon.

Kofusachi is like Desna, but with a worse weapon and not as many good domains. Good, Travel and Luck are all worth taking. Still OK, but again, why not just worship Desna?

Lady Nanbyo like Hei Feng and Gozreh prove the elemental domains are iffy at best. Good weapon, and Rage and Demon are decent enough for a battle cleric.

Lao Shu Po has good domains in Luck, Trickery and Darkness (!). Dagger means no battle cleric, but eh.

Nalinivati gives a good weapon and nothing else. Domains are all pretty eh.

Qi Zhong, despite his holy symbol, thankfully skips the elemental domains, too bad he doesn't pick any really useful domains (a few OK ones, but nothing great). Simple weapon (no free proficiency).

Sun Wukong would otherwise be another case of "just worship Desna who gets all his good domains and a favored weapon that actually does something for you", but the trickery domain is nice.

Tsukiyo is good aligned, but has Darkness and Madness. That's all he has, but it is worth it.

Yaezhing is OK all around, but has nothing that really screams take me over any other generic evil deity.

Yamatsumi is another elemental deity *sigh*. Least the weapon is good.

Fumeiyoshi has bad domains, but good subdomains for a battle cleric and a nice weapon.

Daikitsu has Growth and nothing else of note.


The reason I avoided the eastern deities is the same reason I avoided all the minor gods in golarion proper. That is they are not in the core books and will be unlikley to be accepted unless a GM is specifically running a game like that. In which case the info from the corebook can still be applied to other gods.

Just letting people know I finally added the Ultimate combat spells.

With the release of the ARG I'll also be making a races page. Before I felt it was unnecessary as there were strictly few bad cleric races as long as you avoided wisdom penalties. Now however I think it's worth looking at what's good adn determining from there what might be useful to have. I'm going to try a new format on this page and would like to know people's opinions when it's done.

Also I am going to go through the cleric types and add alternate takes on all of them this includes splitting the bad touch cleric into two separate concepts and finally nail down a couple of playstyles I like on it rather than a thought experiment.

Lastly, *sigh* I'll add a channeling cleric and a pure offensive spellcasting cleric into the mix. I admit I don't like these concepts purely because of the heavy investment and little reward from doing so but there does seem to be a desire to play these types so I will include them for completion's sake.


Great guide Tark. I had a question about the Lord of Undeath - in the guide you say that he'll need 3 spells to "get a fresh minion" and I think I'm missing something:
1. Desecrate
2. Animate Dead/Create Undead/Create Greater Undead
3. ?????

I admit I don't usually play casters, but my group's usual undead lover moved away about 1 year ago, and we miss the zombies around, so I decided to try to pick up the slack.

Could you clarify what 3 spells did you mean?

Cheers.


LeleyX wrote:

Great guide Tark. I had a question about the Lord of Undeath - in the guide you say that he'll need 3 spells to "get a fresh minion" and I think I'm missing something:

1. Desecrate
2. Animate Dead/Create Undead/Create Greater Undead
3. ?????

I admit I don't usually play casters, but my group's usual undead lover moved away about 1 year ago, and we miss the zombies around, so I decided to try to pick up the slack.

Could you clarify what 3 spells did you mean?

Cheers.

The third spell is soemthign you cast while resurrecting the criter to get your flavor. Usually this is remove paralysis for "fast" whatever's.


TarkXT wrote:

So after a few weeks of casual lazy work I've managed to get this to a stage where I feel comfortable actually presenting it.

Link

Note that like any of these guides much of it is opinion so your experiences may vary. My games tend not to include traits so I didn't include those. Additionally not everyone runs games in Golarion so I avoided settin material except in the case of gods.

There's more to add including a run down of spells and what not plus I need to do more editing. It's a work in progress.

At some point I plan on a complete guide to pathfinder necromancy

I love the guide, but I missed where you explain how to get Inspire Courage. Do you multiclass into Bard, or is there some awesome feat tree I'm missing, or what?


Evangelist gives inspire courage.


So I just had to revert the builds page to an earlier save because people enjoy the novelty of crapping it up and not contributing anything. So if you did contribute something after February of this year I apologize.

That being said as always I encourage people to share their builds, and of course their thoughts, on this page.


I think Shelyn deserves more love...

At least she has the "Luck" Domain, which is very good.

Maybe she should be upgraded to green or even blue colour.

And thanks for all, TarkXT... your guide is very good :D


El Patalán wrote:

I think Shelyn deserves more love...

At least she has the "Luck" Domain, which is very good.

Maybe she should be upgraded to green or even blue colour.

And thanks for all, TarkXT... your guide is very good :D

Luck is good.

But I rated her that way not because she has anything objectively good or bad but mainly because her stuff just isn't that great. In fact the luck domain just described all her best domains.

However if that's the only domain you're taking due to an archetype this in combination with her glaive can make strong clerics.

In other news I want to point out the Eaglesoul spell as one of the best cleric spells released in recent memory. All of its bonuses stack with one another and its bless weapon effect stacks with the Keen weapon property (unless this is a typo by the designer). Given it's fire and forget nature if I were to put it in my guide it'd easily rate blue.


TarkXT, sir, if i may ask.

I've gone and visited your cleric guide once again to find some insight on channeler builds (Holy Vindicator to be exact), and was surprised to not be able to find said chapter of your great guide, as i am only able to see an e-mail address instead of any builds.

Is this some sort of error on my end??


It's something I've been meaning to get to but haven't yet. It's overall still not a good option. Mainly due to there being no means of actually increasing channel damage reliably making a channeling based build pretty cruddy. The exception to this rule may be channel builds that nauseate foes who fail their saves. So that's a possibility.


First, let me tell you that your wonderful guide helped me quite a lot.
I built my character using some of your guidelines, and she's an absolute wrecking ball.

A couple of things you might want to address in future edits: The change to SLAs and the addition of the Inner Sea Magic caster guilds have made multi-classing in general, and Mystic Theurges in particular *much* more viable...although calling it 'optimal' is still quite a stretch.

The other thing is, the Grey Warden prestige class is pretty darn nice. Bane + Sneak Attack damage and the War (Tactics) abilities Seize the Initiative and Weapons Master on a TWF build make for a melee monster who still gets level 9 spells. Kinda like the holy version of the EK.


Why do you advise Asmodeus before Urgathoa as patron deities for Lord of Undeath Clerics? Asmodeus doesn't even have death/undeath as his Domains.


Mirrel the Marvelous wrote:
Why do you advise Asmodeus before Urgathoa as patron deities for Lord of Undeath Clerics? Asmodeus doesn't even have death/undeath as his Domains.

Neither death nor undeath are required to be a necromancer. All the necessary necromancy spells are already on your list.

Channeling negative energy? Bad clerics can already do that. Death/undeath don't really provide any real bonuses to a necromancer.

However Asmodeus does provide a few things that let him top out the pallid princess.

Mainly he has trickery and law.

Urgathoa's domains are more versatile and synergize better than asmodeus but don't really have the same sort of appeal that a lord of undeath would want.

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