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I'm thinking of doing a character from Rahadoum that truly embraces the anti religion concept of the nation. What I want to do is have someone who rejects all religion in whatever aspect it appears. I will refuse all assistance and magical aid that comes from a divine source. This means I will not allow myself to be the subject of any beneficial spell or effect that comes from the gods or their worshippers.
To this end what do you think constitutes a divine source? I assume spells cast by clerics, oracles, paladins and inquisitors are completely banned but how about druids, rangers and witches? Are they restricted too? What about good outsiders summoned through arcane spells?
Ideas?
witches are arcane. ( though technically receive power from a patron it isn't a divine connection you could probably fudge this by not having enough knowledge to be aware of it)
rahadoum objects to the political and public baggage that seem to go with the gods. I'n golarion most Druids seem to be of gozreh or the green faith. I'n ALOT of areas where there are active Druidic circles following the green faith they seem to act on the same way a church does.
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"Let no man be beholden to a god."
Your character will obviously refuse any beneficial spell cast by a Cleric or an Inquisitor, as both are conduits for a specific god's power.
He will likely refuse those who look like their power comes from divinities (Oracles, Paladins, Druids), unless they can totally convince him that they do not derive their power from any god. Same for outsiders, even those summoned through arcane means.
He will probably refuse a witch's spell as he has no guarantee that this power does not come from a god or something liked to a god (and everyone knows that witches are not the most trustworthy casters to begin with). In fact, he might want to avoid Sorcerers whose bloodline seem linked to higher (or lower) powers, such as the Celestial, Infernal and Abyssal bloodlines, and maybe also the Undead one. He will also refuse any arcane spell that is linked to the worship of a deity.
You have to be careful though of what can make a man "beholden to a god". What about mundane help provided by a Cleric in the name of his god ? What about mundane help or arcane help provided by a staunch follower of a god ?
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Thanks guys a lot of food for thought.
I think you can play this a number of ways. Personally I am going to play it as polite but firm.
From my perspective spellcasting assistance from clerics, paladins, oracles, druids, rangers, inquisitors and witches are all out as is any assistance from a servant of a divine source (i.e. angels).
Mundane assistance is a case by case basis. I will do a job for a cleric so long as that job is not overtly religious. Rescuing a lost orphan is OK, for example, but recovering a religious relic is not. Nor will I object to working with religious characters (OOC that would be a bit difficult as this is intended as a PFS character). So long as they don't use their spells on me that's fine.
Oh and I am intending this character to be an alchemist. FOR SCIENCE!!!!!
Personally, I have the hardest time understanding Rahadoum opposition to Oracles.
Which is wierd given that is the backstory Paizo chose for their Oracle Iconic.
Oracles have zero allegiance or dependence to Dieties.
They basically are Sorcerors with a different spell list, different powers.
If a Flame Oracle goes around using their Mystery Spells, which aren't even normally Divine Spells, what is the problem exactly? How does that come in conflict with an opposition to Churches and Clerics who serve Dieties and clash with opposing Churches/Dieties? Oracles don't imply any further basis of conflict than Sorcerors or Rogues do, they are just people with supernatural powers.
To a lesser extent, I also don't understand opposition to Druids, especially if they eschew any organized 'religion'.
If they just say 'go with the flow', 'live in harmony with the world', and don't insist on one point of view being superior (/preaching), I don't see how they could be equated with followers of Dieties who wish to subjugate mankind to the politics of Dieties and whose beliefs clash with others. Druids are usually portrayed as ambivalent to such conflicts, and even if 'extreme anti-civilization Druids' may exist, such a stance can equally exist without a connection to 'divine nature', so why get mad at the guys who have smart pets and can help your crops grow better?
I won't argue the case of Paladins, clearly I don't think they have a problem convincing people that they are just a pain in the ass who aren't worth the trouble. ;-)
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In the core rules, Adepts, Bards, Clerics, Druids, Paladins & Rangers can all gain spells through non-divine means.
Golarion specifically restricts Clerics and Paladins to be empowered by gods, AFAIK, leaving Adepts, Bards, Rangers and *some* Druids as sources of non-god-granted healing.
The only APG class that is explicitly gaining their power from a god is the Inquisitor, but, following the Golarion setting guidelines, Oracles and Antipaladins will probably be added to that list, if we ever see a setting-specific guide to the APG, with setting-specific restrictions and whatnot.
In the strictest possible interpretation, only Alchemists and Bards would provide healing options in Rahadoum.
In a more open scenario, where the gods are shunned, but Rangers and Adepts and non-Gozren Druids are okay, there would be some extra wiggle room.
Nobody ever remembers the Adept, so it's quite possible that, in Golarion, they are god-only-casters, and just as forbidden as Clerics in Rahadoum or Razmiran. The core rules don't always apply to Golarion, after all. (The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting handled changes like this, such as the ability of Paladins and Monks to multiclass freely with specific other classes, dependent on faith, by calling them out in sidebars, for convenience, a practice which I think would be useful to revive...)
Rather than go with a hard and fast rule, I'd say that Alchemists and Bards are *generally* given a pass, although perhaps branded with an arcane mark on their forehead or something that makes it obvious to all and sundry that they have been tested and proven not to be divine spellcasters, so that when a bard casts cure light wounds in a new town, he isn't immediately mobbed and torn to shreds by an angry mob.
Anywhere outside of the bigger cities, Rangers would probably be a fact of life, and, marked or not, their local communities or worldly caravan-leaders would accept them as being secular and invaluable warrior / huntsmen / guides able to tap into the natural forces of the world itself.
Depending on one's ranks in Knowledge (arcana), a Witch would pass any test of spellcasting, since her powers are definitely arcane, and possibly be marked or accepted as above. To those who *really* know their stuff, however, the uncertain nature of her 'Patron,' who, for all anyone knows, *could* be a god or some sort, would result in her being distrusted. Still, unless Witches are so common and so well-understood that every peasant knows about their Patrons and how little they really know about them, Witches *should* be able to function, particularly in places that aren't centers of higher learning or overrun with nosy bureaucrats.
[This assumes that, in Rahadoum, they have some sort of spell that can tell the difference between arcane and divine spellcasting, or identify a divine spellcaster, or even hinder or block the use of divine magic in an area.]
Inquisitors would be *awesome* Rahadoumi priest-finders, if only they weren't priests themselves. That's kinda funny.
I'd rule on Adepts, Druids, etc. on an individual basis. Some smaller communities, tribes and families might harbor one among them, rationalizing that she's not a filthy Cleric, nor beholden to any god, nor proselytizing or stirring up genocidal faith-wars, but unwilling to alert the more 'black and white' authorities who might haul them away and execute them.
In the larger communities, Druids would likely not be found in any event, but some Adepts might have passed some series of tests (spitting on a bunch of holy symbols, refuting the tenets of various gods, examined under detect thoughts by an arcanist, etc.) and be arcane marked, as above, to proclaim them 'safe,' and yet watched like hawks for any signs of slipping into deism, making their lives oppressive, at best...
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I'm pretty sure Adepts in Golarion are God-powered. Their spell preparation paragraph is identical to that of Clerics and they even have a holy symbol as a Divine Focus.
On the other hand James Jacobs has said repeatedly that Oracle is very definitively not a God-only caster in Golarion (in reference to, say, gaining Divine power from devotion to a philosophy), so they might be an option.
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Nor will I object to working with religious characters (OOC that would be a bit difficult as this is intended as a PFS character).
A PFS character who refuses the most common form of healing is likely to be viewed as an hindrance for the group's success.
Maybe you can balance it somewhat by taking the Rahadoumi Disbeliever trait (Inner Sea Primer), as it will give both a nice bonus to your character as well as a reason based in game mechanisms for other PCs not to cast beneficial divine spells on your character.
On the other hand James Jacobs has said repeatedly that Oracle is very definitively not a God-only caster in Golarion (in reference to, say, gaining Divine power from devotion to a philosophy), so they might be an option.
Right, but the story for the ICONIC Oracle is 100% centered around how they were persecuted for their powers by the Rahadoum regime. So any given Rahadoumian might be able to discern that Oracles aren't agents of the Gods and accept them, but apparently Rahadoumi SOCIETY does not make that distinction, and persecutes them for simply counting as 'divine magic' even though they are not servants or emissaries of the Gods, which is the entire premise of the Rahadoumi regime.
See my previous post.