Gun vs. Bow & enhancement bonuses


Gunslinger Discussion: Round 2


So, orriginally this post was to be in responce to the now locked How is this supposed to be ballanced thread. I'm not trying to restart that flame war. I just want to show some math. When I started this, I was doing it to show that guns were not overpowered, but the result I came to has put me thinking it needs more study.

From what I can tell, at level 10, a pistol using fighter will average more damage than a bow using one, but suffers from the reduced range increment. The comparisons I keep seeing will not show this though, because people keep comparing the 2 as if they had equal stats and gear. There are a flaw with this.

The main reason I see for this is because the pistoleer will be auto-hitting for all intents and purposes. Giving them more than a +1 enhancement bonus is a waste, but I keep seeing them with guns equal to the bow user's. Typical weapons at this point will be +3. Trading +2 to hit for +2d6 damage (ex. flaming and frost) is extremely valuable to them, since that +2 does very little. For a bow user, this is not the case. They get more damage out of the +2 to hit than out of the additional damage.

The best level 10 DPR I could come up with quickly (without getting into too much equipment details or searching through less familiar APG content) for the bow user against the dragon is 50.43, but I could get up to 64.8375 with the pistoleer. Against a more typical enemy AC of 25, the same bow user goes up to 64.575.

I am assuming Deadly Aim cannot be used on the touch attacks. It favors the gun user more if it can.

Builds:

Standard Array
str 14
dex 15 +2 human, +2 level, +4 belt = 23
other stats irrelevant

Feats:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Deadly Aim vs EWP Pistol
Weapon Focus
Weapon Spec
Many Shot vs undecided feat
GWF
Imp. Crit
2 undecided feats for each. (Far shot for pistol is good choice, to make up for significantly lower range)

equipment: +2 composit longbow +2 str vs +1 Flaming Frost Pistol
+4 Belt of Dex

Bow: +19/+19/+14 1d8+16, 19-20 X3 crit, double damage on first shot
Dragon DPR: 50.43
AC25 DPR 64.8375
Pistol: +20/+20/+15 1d8+6 + 2d6, 19-20 X4 crit
Dragon DPR: 64.8375

With Haste, the Bow user catches up more:
Bow vs Dragon : 71.135
Bow vs other: 88.97
Pistol vs dragon or other: 86.45

25 AC is the point at which the pistol user pulls ahead of the bow when unhasted, 26 when hasted.

All this being said, I still do not think that guns are broken. Alternate stat generation methods would pull this more in favor of the bow user. He also bennefits more from buffs that affect hit, like bardic music. A bard in the party will cause the bow user's dpr to jump well over the pistoleer. I think some of these issues need further examination though.


Deadly aim can specifically be used with firearms.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I think it depends on the fight. With something that has a low Touch AC and lacks the reach to threaten the gunslinger then he will definitely shine. However I also think that the bow user comes out on top in most fights. I say most in the fact that the bow user can stand further away and not be threatened, I'm well aware of Point Blank Master, however it doesn't change the fact that if the gun user is outside of their "target touch ac" range then they're going to drop very far behind the bow user. I think that several things factor into the balance of guns.

A) Shorter "effective" range

B) Slower rate of fire (unless feats and money are spent)

C) Lack of "bonus damage" unless you belong to a class that gives you something to tack on. eg Fighters get weapon training and weapon specialization, Gunslingers get Gun training, Rogues can get their sneak attack, etc.

D) Environment and Monsters. Obviously a Bowman will outshine a Gunman if they're forced to fight at a greater range

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