Trial of the Beast (GM Reference)


Carrion Crown

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I just got done with the phase spider; yeah, for a cr 5 creature it's pretty badass.


So the ghost of Vesorianna visually identified Vrood, he shows up in the business ledger by name in Vorkstag and Grines, and will be identified by name in Ascanor's Caretaker's Journal...

Would Caromarc know Vrood by name? Obvioulsy he was the one who took Carmoarc captive and used the Bondslave Thrall... I just cant find a direct reference to him knowing Vrood specfically, he just mentions the Way in general.

I suppose he would be able to describe VRood's unusual raiments.

Where did you guys go with this?


Ictoo wrote:
And also did anyone else have trouble with their PC's not wanting to break in to Vorkstag and Grimes? and in doing so miss a lot of loot/clues?

Mine didn't do it. They had all the evidence pointing towards V&G, I tried to give it a little push too, but they just didn't think the evidence conclusive enough to warrant a break-in. They were too afraid that if they broke in and it didn't yield anything, it would completely disqualify them in the eyes of the judges and ruin their chances of winning the trial (they had some quite spirited discussions with the prosecution on the first day and one even got a severe fine for disrespect). So they ended up losing the trial because they had done poorly on the second day (never recovered the bodies), and didn't have anything to implicate V&G.

Sczarni

Nac Mac Feegle wrote:
Ictoo wrote:
And also did anyone else have trouble with their PC's not wanting to break in to Vorkstag and Grimes? and in doing so miss a lot of loot/clues?
Mine didn't do it. They had all the evidence pointing towards V&G, I tried to give it a little push too, but they just didn't think the evidence conclusive enough to warrant a break-in. They were too afraid that if they broke in and it didn't yield anything, it would completely disqualify them in the eyes of the judges and ruin their chances of winning the trial (they had some quite spirited discussions with the prosecution on the first day and one even got a severe fine for disrespect). So they ended up losing the trial because they had done poorly on the second day (never recovered the bodies), and didn't have anything to implicate V&G.

Oof. How did they recover? Or did they?


Since the Beast told them to go see Caromarc, they immediately set off for the castle, hoping whatever they'll find there will allow them to save it before the execution the next morning. They're there now, and just suffered their first two PC deaths of the campaign, to the erinyes.

The extra XP and loot from V&G would have helped no doubt, but I don't think it would have made a major difference, at least not in the short term and that's all I can speak of for now. The erinyes is devastating either way. I expect them to have a really hard time in the rest of the castle, but that's not because they missed out on V&G, but due to their overall approach. They barely invested the rewards they got in Ravengro and for delivering the books, and are carrying around a lot of cash instead of better equipment, and since they went straight to the castle after the trial ended and went nova in the first battle there, the players being used to being able to return to base at anytime during their exploration of the prison, they're now extremely low on spells and potions.

Sczarni

Nac Mac Feegle wrote:
The extra XP and loot from V&G would have helped no doubt, but I don't think it would have made a major difference, at least not in the short term and that's all I can speak of for now. The erinyes is devastating either way.

Yeah, I had to pull that punch for my party. They would've wiped if I hadn't had her leave after beating them around for a while.

Nac Mac Feegle wrote:
They barely invested the rewards they got in Ravengro and for delivering the books, and are carrying around a lot of cash instead of better equipment, and since they went straight to the castle after the trial ended and went nova in the first battle there, the players being used to being able to return to base at anytime during their exploration of the prison, they're now extremely low on spells and potions.

Well, let's hope that this is a learning experience for them!


Yeah, I hope so. The Sorc is definitely considering being more stingy with his spells in the future.

By the way, they still have a strong mistrust for V&G and haven't let go of it. They plan to find Caromarc so he can help the Beast in whatever way, and investigate V&G further once they're back in the city. I'll have to make up my mind how save V&G feel with the Beast found guilty on one hand, and the interest the PCs took in them short of the break-in (asking around, showing up on their doorsteep a couple of times) on the other. Either I'll have them leave the city to be on the safe side, or the party might storm the place after all.

Sczarni

Nac Mac Feegle wrote:

Yeah, I hope so. The Sorc is definitely considering being more stingy with his spells in the future.

By the way, they still have a strong mistrust for V&G and haven't let go of it. They plan to find Caromarc so he can help the Beast in whatever way, and investigate V&G further once they're back in the city. I'll have to make up my mind how save V&G feel with the Beast found guilty on one hand, and the interest the PCs took in them short of the break-in (asking around, showing up on their doorsteep a couple of times) on the other. Either I'll have them leave the city to be on the safe side, or the party might storm the place after all.

V&G might be feeling pretty cocky after the Beast's conviction. I doubt they'd flee from their profitable business just because somebody was ineffectually poking around (though I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to murder the PCs to hush things up).

If it were me, I'd run the Chymic Works exactly as-written, with maybe a few extra ghoulish details to convey that V&G have stayed in business past the time of the trial.

Keep all of the evidence that exonerates the Beast, and make the PCs feel bad for not investigating them sooner.


Trinite wrote:

Yeah, I had to pull that punch for my party. They would've wiped if I hadn't had her leave after beating them around for a while.

How did you play that out? Did you just have it be that the period of summoning ran out earlier than under the RAW and she just blinked out? It is hard to imagine her gettting bored with the slaughter and wandering off, and it would be contrary to the rules of the summoning, although I suppose there is a question as to how much she would give chase. How have other GMs dealt with this encounter? My PCs aren't there yet, and I'd like to give it some thought in advance.

Sczarni

Voomer wrote:
Trinite wrote:

Yeah, I had to pull that punch for my party. They would've wiped if I hadn't had her leave after beating them around for a while.

How did you play that out? Did you just have it be that the period of summoning ran out earlier than under the RAW and she just blinked out? It is hard to imagine her gettting bored with the slaughter and wandering off, and it would be contrary to the rules of the summoning, although I suppose there is a question as to how much she would give chase. How have other GMs dealt with this encounter? My PCs aren't there yet, and I'd like to give it some thought in advance.

Here's the whole story:

The witch used her Fly Hex to scout around the wooden bridge. I say, "You notice that in the middle of the bridge, there are several planks that are an odd reddish color." She thinks that it's a trap, but figures it'll just make the bridge collapse or something, and she'll be safe thanks to her Fly Hex. So she floats down and touches one of the red planks...

"The red coloration all rushes together to form a bright red fissure in the air. Out of the fissure steps a beautiful angelic figure with black wings. Roll initiative."

The Erinyes proceeds to focus on the monk, because he happens to be a devotee of Iomedae with her holy symbol tattooed on his face. Fortunately, he was the tankiest party member, so he could soak some damage. He was really glad he had taken the Deflect Arrows feat!

After a couple of barrages from the flaming arrows (+14/+14/+9? Good gravy!), the party realizes that they must run or die. So they sprint across the bridge (it's a good thing they were all super-nimble classes) and try to open the door into the museum. That takes them a round, during which they're all bunched up at the door, so the Erinyes hits them with her unholy blight spell-like. Fortunately, they make their saves.

So they get inside the door, hurting badly. Instead of chasing them, the Erinyes shouts, "Auren Vrood, I have fulfilled the terms of our contract!" and vanishes in a red flash of hellfire.

My rationale was that this wasn't just a normal trap. Instead, Vrood summoned the Erinyes and made a contract with it to guard the bridge. His exact words were, "Attack anyone trying to cross this bridge." As soon as the PCs were in the museum, they were no longer trying to cross the bridge. So the Erinyes considered its contract fulfilled and went home. :)

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

This was an AWESOME BOOK.
Our group has never had a more harrowing (ha) and intense set of sessions than when we did this. The RP was gripping in the courtroom, the revelations about the Beast's "victims" struck them to the core, the dungeon crawl was every bit of pain and near-hopelessness that a horror/dark sci-fi Tabletop game should be, and the end left the players with a half-hearted feeling of disgust, sorrow, success, and determination.


Trinite wrote:


Here's the whole story:

Thanks, Trinite! It will be interesting to see how this plays out in our group. Only one of the four is nimble...

Interesting your monk took deflect arrows. A cool feat, but it doesn't seem like PCs get attack by arrows all that often...

Sczarni

Hako wrote:
Trinite wrote:


Here's the whole story:

Thanks, Trinite! It will be interesting to see how this plays out in our group. Only one of the four is nimble...

Interesting your monk took deflect arrows. A cool feat, but it doesn't seem like PCs get attack by arrows all that often...

He took it with his new character too, a bard. He just loves that feat. :)

And it does work on stuff besides arrows. The way it's written it would actually even work on bullets, it seems to me.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Nac Mac Feegle wrote:

Yeah, I hope so. The Sorc is definitely considering being more stingy with his spells in the future.

By the way, they still have a strong mistrust for V&G and haven't let go of it. They plan to find Caromarc so he can help the Beast in whatever way, and investigate V&G further once they're back in the city. I'll have to make up my mind how save V&G feel with the Beast found guilty on one hand, and the interest the PCs took in them short of the break-in (asking around, showing up on their doorsteep a couple of times) on the other. Either I'll have them leave the city to be on the safe side, or the party might storm the place after all.

Just a heads-up about the finale: give them every opportunity to learn exactly what they need to do to summon the Beast, and if they don't have an incredibly optimized party (super-tank, omega heal-bot, etc.), be ready for very painful results.

I've seen groups on the Boards defeat the Promethean on their own, but I've seen many more come away with partial or total TPKs.
It's an AMAZING fight, but just be on your toes and explicitly encourage them to try things beyond the norm of the rules. If the Barbarian wants to slide under the beast and slash at its vulnerable underbelly, give her a shot!
Also, at some point, have the Prom start moving up the tower instead of blinding fighting people at the base until they're dead. Having to fight up the tower is EXTREMELY exciting and rewarding for improvising Heroes.


My PCs arrive in Lepidstadt at our game tomorrow night, and I'm still trying to figure out the Beast's motivations and other details about his captivity. I don't think I've seen it addressed yet.

First, can he escape? I can imagine the City managing to bind him strongly enough in the cage, but how can they prevent his escape while transporting him to the courtroom? The module contemplates that he CAN escape from the courtroom at the end. If he can escape at any time, then why doesn't he escape earlier? He must realize Caromac is in danger because someone used the Bondslave Thrall. Or if he thinks Caromac did it, why wouldn't he want to go directly and confront Caromac?

Similarly, if the Beast thinks Caromac is in danger, why wouldn't he recruit the PCs to his side earlier? Why wait until the end of trial to let them know Caromac is his father?

I can imagine him being fatalistic enough to permit his capture at the University, but it is hard to imagine him not attempting to escape once the trial commences.

How have people handled all this? What the Beast says and when. When the Beast escapes and how?


Depends. Technically he can escape, but he chooses not to. The book suggests playing him about as smart as a young child. Not sure if he knows or remembers the bondslave thrall being used. He's in a situation of authority and sullenly follows orders. If found guilty, his self preservation kicks in and he escapes. Otherwise he invites everyone over for a play date!

Alternatives -
He doesn't know the sentence is death; perhaps he's been lied to and believes the one who told him more than the PCs.
He feels the press of the orders to stay and wait that was provided before releasing the Thrall.
He was told always respect the police.

In my game, he was fully intelligent but depressed. Knew he was not human, that he was a constructed creature. Figured there was no real point to fighting; the court will do whatever the court wants to do and he is just too tired of trying to be normal. He was there entirely of his own will because he was so depressed as not to care (didn't play him all weepy - more that he was maudlin and fatalistic; had a whole lot of fun with it).


Thanks for your thoughts. I think the fatalistic and depressed angle makes sense. Perhaps willing to submit to authority and hope the truth finally comes out. And, I guess, it makes sense that he might change his attitude at the end of the trial -- particularly because I'm going to have him held for trial on other charges even if he's acquitted on the 3 charges presently at issue.

I'm also thinking that he communicates to the PCs that he can be controlled from afar, although it hasn't happened in a long time, and he thinks that is what happened during the break in. But he is unwilling to identify Caromac as his creator because he doesn't know how much he can trust the PCs. He is confused and conflicted -- he assumes Caromac controlled him, and feels angry at the violation. But, if the PCs suggest someone else might have done it, it would plant a seed of doubt and worry about Caromac's fate. But it can't be too much, or the Beast would escape right away and try to rescue his father. It is quite a balancing act for the GM if you want to do it in a way that really makes sense, and I don't think the module thinks it through quite enough.

At the end of the trial, the Beast will presumably have enough trust in the PCs that he would be willing to identify Caromac to them. Then the issue is why he invites the PCs to come. I guess if he's become convinced Caromac is in danger, he might ask for the PC's assistance. If he's just going to confront Caromac, I don't see why he'd invite the PCs.

Finally, there is the problem that the module contemplates that the PCs won't return to Lepidstadt after running off to Schloss Caromac. I'm reluctant to deny my PCs the opportunity to shop and wrap up loose roleplaying threads in Lepidstadt, but the adventure seems to contemplate they run off right away.

All of this leads me to consider having the PCs find out about Caromac after trial in a different way, and find their way to the castle at their own pace. Any ideas how to make this happen? It would definitely have to include a specific WW reference in order to provide sufficient motivation to the PCs.

All this also makes me inclined (as has been suggested before) to have the PCs find an unconscious Beast at the foot of the tower, ready to be restored by the Bondslave Thrall, since it is hard to justify the Beast showing up in the middle of the battle with the Aberrant Promethean, especially if the Beast left a full day or so in advance of the PCs...

Sorry for the long note, but it feels essential to the whole module to work this out thoroughly. Any thoughts are appreciated!

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

You can also give him the child-like angle; that's what I ran with.
It pretty much instantly endears him to the party.
It says in the book more than once that he's not fully aware of his surroundings and the significance of the moment.
The trial really is a sham and disgrace- he can't even properly defend himself, it's like putting a 1st grader on trial for murder/rape/arson and giving him the most incompetent lawyer in the state.
This helps explain why a CR 13 creature can be bound and dragged around the city for the Trials without just walking out the front door like he could at any time.
Or why a couple of Trollhounds/Trolls kept him from just JUMPING OVER THE FRONT GATE and running up to the Tower. They scared and demoralized him and he runs off to the swamp. Only the Thrall's overwhelming control makes him worth more than a 5-yr old stuck in a gorilla's body.

Overall, I think it adds to the quiet horror and grimness of the whole thing- this is a beautiful (inside) and simple creature who only wants to be loved and respected by something or someone; this is an innocent child who looks up to the big men in big hats with absolute terror, mostly unaware he could snap them all in half at once. And they're going to burn him alive.

Just my thoughts.


Thanks. I'll try to make sure I incorporate the child-like-ness in the mix.

Ulmaxes wrote:
Or why a couple of Trollhounds/Trolls kept him from just JUMPING OVER THE FRONT GATE and running up to the Tower. They scared and demoralized him and he runs off to the swamp. Only the Thrall's overwhelming control makes him worth more than a 5-yr old stuck in a gorilla's body.

Can you remind me what this refers to? I don't remember reading about the Beast confronting the trolls, but I may be missing something.


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Assumptions as to why the Beast isn't just hanging out with his dad when the PCs get there. My beast said "Thanks for the help (I guess, I mean, whatever, this probably wont change anything), meet me at my dad's castle in five days. Ciao" (paraphrased, heh). So when the PCs get there and find the trolls and no Beast, there will be some pondering.

I figure I will have to have the Beast on the roof, unconscious, waiting (I'm stealing this idea, heh) for the PCs. Still can take a few turns to get him to wake up and be ready to fight, during which the AP will be eating PCs as the module suggests. I can ensure that he's real beat up and went to the roof for healing after fighting his way into the house.

I will have some note left for the players that hints at the final confrontation and that the Beast had to "do something dangerous" and "if I am not back, find me on the roof". The players are still prepping for the trip to the castle though, so we'll see.

Of course, there's also the likelihood that Trolls and golem dogs would stay the hell away from the Beast when he approaches.

Sczarni

MurphysParadox wrote:


I figure I will have to have the Beast on the roof, unconscious, waiting (I'm stealing this idea, heh) for the PCs. Still can take a few turns to get him to wake up and be ready to fight, during which the AP will be eating PCs as the module suggests. I can ensure that he's real beat up and went to the roof for healing after fighting his way into the house.

Dude, you should make it so that the PCs have to strike him with a lightning bolt to wake him up and reenergize him!


Trinite wrote:
Dude, you should make it so that the PCs have to strike him with a lightning bolt to wake him up and reenergize him!

I'm thinking along those lines, but there are some difficulties. Normal lightning only heals one point for every three points of damage, so normal lightning can’t effectively restore the Beast. It makes sense that you could use the Bondslave Thrall to fully restore The Beast (in combination with lightning from the Storm Caller), but how would it make sense that an unconscious Beast ended up on the roof? For that matter, how does the module contemplate that the Beast makes it up to fight the Aberrant Promethean? The Beast can’t pass through the adamantine trapdoors in the tower, even assuming they are large enough, and he doesn’t have any ranks in climb, so the DC 25 to scale the tower is unworkable.

Another question: Once the Bondslave Thrall has been powered up, is it necessary to leave on the Storm Caller during the duration of the Beast’s battle with the Aberrant Promethean? The module says the lightning can be stopped by turning off the Storm Caller, but it does not say whether that would also turn off the Bondslave Thrall.


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I will admit to being very rusty on the end of the module, but in my mind he ends up mixing it up with the AP for awhile, is very badly wounded, escapes, gets to the tower roof, passes out before he can get the storm caller going. The players activate the storm caller, jump start the beast, and go to town with the AP.

I imagine it is up to you. It makes for a cool scene if left on, especially with the evasion thing (or just house the thrall in a faraday cage)


I will admit to being very rusty on the end of the module, but in my mind he ends up mixing it up with the AP for awhile, is very badly wounded, escapes, gets to the tower roof, passes out before he can get the storm caller going. The players activate the storm caller, jump start the beast, and go to town with the AP.

I imagine it is up to you. It makes for a cool scene if left on, especially with the evasion thing (or just house the thrall in a Faraday cage)


MurphysParadox wrote:
in my mind he ends up mixing it up with the AP for awhile, is very badly wounded, escapes, gets to the tower roof, passes out before he can get the storm caller going. The players activate the storm caller, jump start the beast, and go to town with the AP.

I thought about that approach, but the Beast would have to open the roof, in which case the AP would probably follow him up there and finish him off. Also, the roof would be open when the PCs arrive. Finally, it still leaves a little unclear how exactly the Beast made it to the top of the tower!

MurphysParadox wrote:
It makes for a cool scene if left on, especially with the evasion thing (or just house the thrall in a faraday cage).

I love the idea of a cage around the Thrall! But if the Storm Caller is left on, other PCs up there can get injured and/or the Beast and AP can get healed. I guess I'll just have to make a call on that one.

Sczarni

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Voomer wrote:
MurphysParadox wrote:
in my mind he ends up mixing it up with the AP for awhile, is very badly wounded, escapes, gets to the tower roof, passes out before he can get the storm caller going. The players activate the storm caller, jump start the beast, and go to town with the AP.

I thought about that approach, but the Beast would have to open the roof, in which case the AP would probably follow him up there and finish him off. Also, the roof would be open when the PCs arrive. Finally, it still leaves a little unclear how exactly the Beast made it to the top of the tower!

MurphysParadox wrote:
It makes for a cool scene if left on, especially with the evasion thing (or just house the thrall in a faraday cage).
I love the idea of a cage around the Thrall! But if the Storm Caller is left on, other PCs up there can get injured and/or the Beast and AP can get healed. I guess I'll just have to make a call on that one.

Maybe he just managed to close the door behind him before he passed out?

Maybe there was a trap on the tower roof that drained him of his energy? Maybe a fire trap or something?

Or he just climbed up the outside. Don't worry about his lack of climb ranks, your players will never know the difference.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

It still leaves the question of how the Beast was able to navigate the entire area without leaving a trace, as a creature of his stature and power would. How is the Erinyes trap still there? Rust Monsters? All the lab creatures?
You can write it off as Plot, but it would have been a serious question amongst my group as well as myself.

I would encourage anyone to stick with the standard "he's off in the swamps" story- it sticks with his child-like nature (unwilling to face danger unless absolutely cornered and hopeless), and when the Thrall activates and he comes running, you can use his progress to tie up each desperate round. "He bashes through the front gates (round 1), blazes through the Manor (round 2), dashes across the weakened lab and LEAPS THE ENTIRE ROPE BRIDGE (round 3, just for rule of cool), zips up the museum and side wall, throwing himself a dozen feet with every flex of his muscles (round 4)..."

This can draw itself out or shorten as necessary depending on what you roll.
It gives the PCs a ray of hope amidst the dark despair that's thrashing them about the tower. And when the Beast finally comes within sight of the Tower...I could see the shivers going down the Player's spines as this quiet, humble creature comes leaping towards them with superhuman speed and raw display of power.


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I certainly agree it doesn't make any sense that the Beast could have gone through the manor, etc. before the PCs without leaving a trace. But I also don't think it makes any sense that the Beast would be somewhere outside the complex and could possibly get there in time to help the players. My current thought is to alter the Beast's stats and make him a masterful climber and swimmer. Basically, when he approached the guardhouse and saw the trolls, he decided to go around. He knew that Caromac would be in the final tower, and he navigated the waters and then climbed the cliffs to go directly there.

Making him a masterful climber would also explain how he could get to the top of the tower, since going through the stairs isn't possible. I think it is an interesting thought that perhaps he got to the roof and was prepared to rip open the shutters and confront Caromac, but he triggered some sort of trap that exhausted his final energies. Maybe Caromac always feared the Beast coming after him, so he laid a trap specifically designed to put the Beast in a comatose state (but, of course, revivable with the Bondslave Thrall). Any ideas on what such a trap might be?

Also, any idea when the Beast last saw Caromac? Maybe the Beast visited Caromac and saw that Caromac had made the Aberrant Promethean. The Beast felt betrayed and left in anger, which is what made Caromac fear the Beast. But, at this point, the Beast has forgiven Caromac over the AP and is returning to find out why Caromac used the Bondslave Thrall on him again.

Any other thoughts on this? It is all very helpful!

Sczarni

Voomer wrote:

I certainly agree it doesn't make any sense that the Beast could have gone through the manor, etc. before the PCs without leaving a trace. But I also don't think it makes any sense that the Beast would be somewhere outside the complex and could possibly get there in time to help the players. My current thought is to alter the Beast's stats and make him a masterful climber and swimmer. Basically, when he approached the guardhouse and saw the trolls, he decided to go around. He knew that Caromac would be in the final tower, and he navigated the waters and then climbed the cliffs to go directly there.

Making him a masterful climber would also explain how he could get to the top of the tower, since going through the stairs isn't possible. I think it is an interesting thought that perhaps he got to the roof and was prepared to rip open the shutters and confront Caromac, but he triggered some sort of trap that exhausted his final energies. Maybe Caromac always feared the Beast coming after him, so he laid a trap specifically designed to put the Beast in a comatose state (but, of course, revivable with the Bondslave Thrall). Any ideas on what such a trap might be?

Also, any idea when the Beast last saw Caromac? Maybe the Beast visited Caromac and saw that Caromac had made the Aberrant Promethean. The Beast felt betrayed and left in anger, which is what made Caromac fear the Beast. But, at this point, the Beast has forgiven Caromac over the AP and is returning to find out why Caromac used the Bondslave Thrall on him again.

Any other thoughts on this? It is all very helpful!

I like your plan, Voomer! As for the trap:

Permanent force cage? Resilient Sphere trap? Big ol' adamantine bear trap? Something you make up that only works on Flesh Golems? :)


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All good trap ideas! I think I most like the adamantine bear trap idea, because the other two would capture the Beast without rendering him unconscious. In contrast, it seems plausible to say that extended contact with a large quantity of adamantine (in the bear trap) could thoroughly deplete a flesh golem and put it into a comatose state. But it also has the advantage of not burning him to a crisp or anything, so it seems equally plausible that (given 2d4 rounds) the storm caller/bondslave thrall could bring him back to full strength. Of course, the AP would hear the machines fire up and bust out to the roof to investigate...

In the immortal words of Hannibal Smith, "I love it when a plan comes together!"

Sczarni

Voomer wrote:

All good trap ideas! I think I most like the adamantine bear trap idea, because the other two would capture the Beast without rendering him unconscious. In contrast, it seems plausible to say that extended contact with a large quantity of adamantine (in the bear trap) could thoroughly deplete a flesh golem and put it into a comatose state. But it also has the advantage of not burning him to a crisp or anything, so it seems equally plausible that (given 2d4 rounds) the storm caller/bondslave thrall could bring him back to full strength. Of course, the AP would hear the machines fire up and bust out to the roof to investigate...

In the immortal words of Hannibal Smith, "I love it when a plan comes together!"

Sounds great!

Dark Archive

Hi. Im running this adventure with my players and we are now at Caromarc Mansion.
They are in great trouble beacuse had trigerred the huge air elemental trap and some are caught in te whirlwind while otres are trap between it and the door.
They all have low hp after the trolls fight and a fall from the bridge will be mortal.
Are there any way to scape from the whirlwind?
One of my players, a witch, thought to cast Web across the wrhilwind to catch the players in it. Whats the hardness and the hp of the web?

Thanks and sorry for my english :)


Yeah, that fight is bad news. The players can run away back down the bridge and you can keep the elemental from chasing them. It is there just to keep burglars out of the house, so if they run off then they aren't burglars and it can avoid them. You can have it disappear after some number of turns as it is a summoned creature. You can have it leave once all the players break into the castle (though there is that fight in the entry-way too...) You can also have it pick the party up and throw them across the bridge. Do non-lethal damage, knock some guys out, but not actually kill them.


Tarod wrote:

One of my players, a witch, thought to cast Web across the wrhilwind to catch the players in it. Whats the hardness and the hp of the web?

The spell description doesn't specify those stats. As a GM, I would be inclined to find a way to let the web work, since I like to reward player cleverness and because it is a tough encounter and your PCs are in a tough spot.

That being said, it is hard to imagine that the web could propel with enough force to enter the whirlwind, capture the players, and exit through the other side. Also, the spell description says the web needs to be attached to two opposing points (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/web.html), so I don't think it quite works as your player suggested (which would be more like a net). However, the witch could potentially use the web to catch the PCs as they are dropped out of the whirlwind, by attaching one end to the bridge and the other end to the house. Perhaps the witch can prepare the spell and hold his/her action until the whirlwind drops the captured PCs? I'm not sure how that would work under the rules as written, but I would probably let the witch do it, and I would probably have the whirlwind dump the PCs somewhere where the web would work to save them.

The air elemental might not realize the PCs survived (it is pretty dumb) and the witch could hide on the far side of the bridge until it went away. I think that would be a cool, cinematic way to complete the encounter without killing the PCs.

Dark Archive

Hako wrote:
Tarod wrote:

One of my players, a witch, thought to cast Web across the wrhilwind to catch the players in it. Whats the hardness and the hp of the web?

The spell description doesn't specify those stats. As a GM, I would be inclined to find a way to let the web work, since I like to reward player cleverness and because it is a tough encounter and your PCs are in a tough spot.

That being said, it is hard to imagine that the web could propel with enough force to enter the whirlwind, capture the players, and exit through the other side. Also, the spell description says the web needs to be attached to two opposing points (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/web.html), so I don't think it quite works as your player suggested (which would be more like a net). However, the witch could potentially use the web to catch the PCs as they are dropped out of the whirlwind, by attaching one end to the bridge and the other end to the house. Perhaps the witch can prepare the spell and hold his/her action until the whirlwind drops the captured PCs? I'm not sure how that would work under the rules as written, but I would probably let the witch do it, and I would probably have the whirlwind dump the PCs somewhere where the web would work to save them.

The air elemental might not realize the PCs survived (it is pretty dumb) and the witch could hide on the far side of the bridge until it went away. I think that would be a cool, cinematic way to complete the encounter without killing the PCs.

I think the same too. As you do, I like to reward when my players think on different ways to solve these encounters. I will tell you how this finish. Thx a lot :)

Sczarni

Tarod wrote:
Hako wrote:
Tarod wrote:

One of my players, a witch, thought to cast Web across the wrhilwind to catch the players in it. Whats the hardness and the hp of the web?

The spell description doesn't specify those stats. As a GM, I would be inclined to find a way to let the web work, since I like to reward player cleverness and because it is a tough encounter and your PCs are in a tough spot.

That being said, it is hard to imagine that the web could propel with enough force to enter the whirlwind, capture the players, and exit through the other side. Also, the spell description says the web needs to be attached to two opposing points (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/web.html), so I don't think it quite works as your player suggested (which would be more like a net). However, the witch could potentially use the web to catch the PCs as they are dropped out of the whirlwind, by attaching one end to the bridge and the other end to the house. Perhaps the witch can prepare the spell and hold his/her action until the whirlwind drops the captured PCs? I'm not sure how that would work under the rules as written, but I would probably let the witch do it, and I would probably have the whirlwind dump the PCs somewhere where the web would work to save them.

The air elemental might not realize the PCs survived (it is pretty dumb) and the witch could hide on the far side of the bridge until it went away. I think that would be a cool, cinematic way to complete the encounter without killing the PCs.

I think the same too. As you do, I like to reward when my players think on different ways to solve these encounters. I will tell you how this finish. Thx a lot :)

They could also use a rope of climbing, which they might have found a lot earlier on in the Adventure Path. The character with the rope could use it to save himself from the fall by commanding it to attach onto something.

Dark Archive

Trinite wrote:
Tarod wrote:
Hako wrote:
Tarod wrote:

One of my players, a witch, thought to cast Web across the wrhilwind to catch the players in it. Whats the hardness and the hp of the web?

The spell description doesn't specify those stats. As a GM, I would be inclined to find a way to let the web work, since I like to reward player cleverness and because it is a tough encounter and your PCs are in a tough spot.

That being said, it is hard to imagine that the web could propel with enough force to enter the whirlwind, capture the players, and exit through the other side. Also, the spell description says the web needs to be attached to two opposing points (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/web.html), so I don't think it quite works as your player suggested (which would be more like a net). However, the witch could potentially use the web to catch the PCs as they are dropped out of the whirlwind, by attaching one end to the bridge and the other end to the house. Perhaps the witch can prepare the spell and hold his/her action until the whirlwind drops the captured PCs? I'm not sure how that would work under the rules as written, but I would probably let the witch do it, and I would probably have the whirlwind dump the PCs somewhere where the web would work to save them.

The air elemental might not realize the PCs survived (it is pretty dumb) and the witch could hide on the far side of the bridge until it went away. I think that would be a cool, cinematic way to complete the encounter without killing the PCs.

I think the same too. As you do, I like to reward when my players think on different ways to solve these encounters. I will tell you how this finish. Thx a lot :)
They could also use a rope of climbing, which they might have found a lot earlier on in the Adventure Path. The character with the rope could use it to save himself from the fall by commanding it to attach onto something.

They havent found it. The rogue is going to use his climbing hook attached to the rope to use it like mission impossible whem one of the PC fall. He have a hero point to use it. Its going to be a very cinematic encounter


Tarod wrote:
They havent found it. The rogue is going to use his climbing hook attached to the rope to use it like mission impossible whem one of the PC fall. He have a hero point to use it. Its going to be a very cinematic encounter

I hope the witch can save all the PCs with the web spell. The rogue is going to need that hero point later!

Sczarni

Voomer wrote:
Tarod wrote:
They havent found it. The rogue is going to use his climbing hook attached to the rope to use it like mission impossible whem one of the PC fall. He have a hero point to use it. Its going to be a very cinematic encounter
I hope the witch can save all the PCs with the web spell. The rogue is going to need that hero point later!

For sure! But if it's a matter of life or death, spend it up! If they all live, I suggest a nice long night's rest in the mansion before they move on. My players sure needed it! ;)


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My own group of PCs is facing the AP on Sunday. They cleared up through the Menagerie and fell back to the manor to rest.

How I've handled the Beast at the Schloss - he had left a note for them to find ("SOMETHINGS WRONG GOING AHEAD") before he went into Schloss Caromac, a day or so ahead of the party. I also fiddled with his stats somewhat, since Richard Pett was working from the Classic Horrors Revisited stat black but the Beast having stuff like double-arbalest proficiency seemed silly to me.

So the party's ranger has been pretty easily tracking the beast's progress.

1) He tore one of the trolls in half and the rest backed off. The torn troll regenerated with an appropriate scar.

2) He's visited very, very rarely over the past decades, but none of Caromac's golems will attack him and the unseen servants know he should pass. Same for the construct under the stairs.

3) He jumped the rope bridge. He smashed through entry way window and left a giant dent in the appropriate wall in the museum. The mummy and the mimic did not challenge him.

3a) the mimic actually surrendered to the party and they accepted, so it told them how the man with the black robe and burning red eyes came through a week ago and let everything out. The players remembered Vesorianna's description of Vrood, so that was an "oh s#%#" moment for them. The mimic had been cool with where it was - the Count was treating the mimic as a guest in exchange for mimic "insight" and glue (the latter being much more useful than the former).

3b) The players also spoke with the museum guardian - or rather, with the homunculi through their linked flesh golem (for which they essentially act as the AI). They identified the Beast as the "Misbegotten," and discussed how Vrood hid himself from them with magic. They cannot leave the musuem until the Count gives them new orders or they're given proof of his death.

4) The Beast didn't go through the Drowned Menagerie - he climbed the towers and went to the bridge, and from there tot he tower. The girallon golem, who's linked "AI" homunculus was destroyed, did not challenge the Beast. And then the Beast made it to the AP, and got no further.

5) Waxwood is going to have 10 ft. telepathy, and he'll brief the party on both how the Beast fell (they'll see his broken body now hanging in the Promethean's webs), and what must to be done to jumpstart the Beast and save the Count.

6) Because I'm mean, when they finally get the Stormcaller and Thrall to flood the area with enough lightning to heal up the Beast, the Promethean will also heal up the same amount. But then they'll have the Beast with them, and the fight will start in earnest.

Assuming the party is successful, vanquishes the AP, saves the Beast and the Count, etc., their real reward for the adventure will come in book 6 - with the Count, the Beast, and the Count's other creations showing up as reinforcements at Renchurch. That should be fun.


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Two amusing/unexpected things:

1) the party had dinged 7th level before entering the final tower. After Waxwood warned the party of the Promethean, the cleric with Travel domain got an invis spell, simply walked up to where the Count was imprisoned (the AP with its whopping +2 perception did not notice the cleric), and dimension doored the Count out of the misery idol right up to the Bondslave Thrall. He threw the thrall into overdrive and as the lightning crashed down to the revive the Beast, the party could hear two things clearly over the thunder -- the Count's maniacal laughter, followed by a triumphant shout common to alchemists all over the world - "IT WORKED!"

2) The party donated the mimic to Lepidstat University's Psychiatry Department.

And man did the figurines of wondrous power out of the Count's bedroom help immensely. One of the goats is a flying steed and another has a horn that pops off to become a +5 longsword. So that served the party really, really well.

Sczarni

Zhangar wrote:

Two amusing/unexpected things:

1) the party had dinged 7th level before entering the final tower. After Waxwood warned the party of the Promethean, the cleric with Travel domain got an invis spell, simply walked up to where the Count was imprisoned (the AP with its whopping +2 perception did not notice the cleric), and dimension doored the Count out of the misery idol right up to the Bondslave Thrall. He threw the thrall into overdrive and as the lightning crashed down to the revive the Beast, the party could hear two things clearly over the thunder -- the Count's maniacal laughter, followed by a triumphant shout common to alchemists all over the world - "IT WORKED!"

2) The party donated the mimic to Lepidstat University's Psychiatry Department.

And man did the figurines of wondrous power out of the Count's bedroom help immensely. One of the goats is a flying steed and another has a horn that pops off to become a +5 longsword. So that served the party really, really well.

Nice plan!

Yeah, those goats are awesome!


Zhangar wrote:
Assuming the party is successful, vanquishes the AP, saves the Beast and the Count, etc., their real reward for the adventure will come in book 6 - with the Count, the Beast, and the Count's other creations showing up as reinforcements at Renchurch. That should be fun.

This is a very nice touch. I'd love to hear how you plan on having them show up at the right time.

Your resolution of how the Beast got through the Castle without triggering all the encounters is very clever (I especially like what you did with the Mimic), but it feels a bit too elaborate. Most of it seemed plausible, but I don't know why the Beast would have known to avoid the rope bridge with the devil trap. Why not just have the Beast travel through the waters and climb up to the last tower, avoiding the Castle complex entirely? That's my plan.

I loved how your players released the Count BEFORE the fight with the AP. Could you explain better how that worked? It of course makes sense that the cleric could dimension door up top with the Count once the misery idol was opened, but wouldn't the AP have noticed the cleric opening the idol to reach the Count? I forget how the idol is locked...


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The Beast didn't know about the trap; he just took one look at the flimsy rope bridge and vaulted it instead of trying to walk across it. I would've expected the bridge to snap if the Beast tried to walk on it.

Climbing up the other side would've been saner/safter, but, well, something the wrong so the Beast hurried.

The count's face is exposed enough that the Count can see what's going on and Waxwood could feed and water him. So the cleric just reached in, touched his face, and "bamf" to the top of the tower.

The Count made it clear to the party that once he's recovered and gotten re-equipped (Vrood took most of his stuff), he'll be showing the Whispering Way how homewrecking is really done. The party cleric promptly promised to use sending spells to keep in touch with the Count.

So it may well be a properly coordinated assault rather than a sudden arrival. I'll know better as the time comes.


Thanks for all that. More food for thought.

Sczarni

Zhangar wrote:

The Beast didn't know about the trap; he just took one look at the flimsy rope bridge and vaulted it instead of trying to walk across it. I would've expected the bridge to snap if the Beast tried to walk on it.

Climbing up the other side would've been saner/safter, but, well, something the wrong so the Beast hurried.

The count's face is exposed enough that the Count can see what's going on and Waxwood could feed and water him. So the cleric just reached in, touched his face, and "bamf" to the top of the tower.

The Count made it clear to the party that once he's recovered and gotten re-equipped (Vrood took most of his stuff), he'll be showing the Whispering Way how homewrecking is really done. The party cleric promptly promised to use sending spells to keep in touch with the Count.

So it may well be a properly coordinated assault rather than a sudden arrival. I'll know better as the time comes.

Oh, awesome. I'm totally gonna use this idea in my game. And I'll bring back the other retired characters from the early parts of the campaign then, too!


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To bring up another topic, it seems strange to me that no one suspects that Caromac is the Beast's creator. Clearly many in Lepidstadt would know that the Beast is a flesh golem that must have a creator. It seems unlikely that Caromac could so thoroughly have concealed his long-term experimentations -- especially since he has been bringing in outside workers to build up the Castle. The brilliant recluse in the castle with a grudge on all of Vieland seems like a pretty obvious suspect. How have other GM's handled this? My PCs have been asking around to find out if any one has any suspicions about who the Beast's creator is; I'm feeling a little silly saying no one has any idea.

Most recently, I've actually been playing with the idea of stumping them by giving them TOO many suspects. Someone previously suggested that the poetry book recovered from the Beast's lair near Hergstag could actually bear the initials A.C. Running with that idea, I've made up a list of a number of potential A.C.'s. It would confuse the PCs with a lot of false leads they wouldn't have time to explore during the trial, but at least they wouldn't be hearing the name Aldus Caromac for the first time after the trial, when the Beast or someone else tips them off that Caromac is the creator. I'm thinking that, after the trial, someone will find evidence connecting the Whispering Way to Caromac, which will send the PCs off to Schloss Caromac.

Here is my first shot at a list of prominent local A.C.s:

Alezandaru Caliphvaso -- brother of the infamous Millaera Caliphvaso (mother of putative heir Reneis Ordranti) and the equally infamous Countess Carmilla Caliphvaso. He has been a prominent member of the medical faculty at the University for many years. He arrived in Lepidstadt from Caliphas many years ago, apparently to avoid involvement with the political machinations in Caliphas.

Adula Cindercairn -- A current member of the Palatine Council of Vieland. Her family moved to Lepidstadt several generations ago once their ancestral lands, home to Fort Cindercairn, became overrun by orc hordes.

Aldus Caromac -- former lord of Vieland who abdicated his position in response to a popular revolt. Lives in his ancestral home in the swamp, some days travel from Lepidstadt.

Acciani Montagnie Crowl -- Montagnie is actually his middle name. He used to go by Acciani many years ago, but he started going by his middle name when Acciani Viacarri became the dean of the University. Crowl greatly dislikes Viacarri because Crowl thinks he is more interested in construction than scholarship.

Any thoughts? Is this fun, or utterly pointless?


That could work pretty well.

I had the Beast flat-out refuse to disclose anything about his creator until after the trial, at which point the Beast gave the party a location X days down the river and wondered why Father hasn't intervened in any fashion at all yet. The PC alchemist that was local to Lepidstat passed a check to realize the Beast's location matched up very, very well with Schloss Caromac, residence of the former lord. The Beast had then gone ahead, because he didn't need to rest and he'd get there well ahead of the party.

I actually mentioned to the PCs early upon their arrival that the former lord had supported the university, and as the alchemist as a minor professor at the university was aware that the Count had displayed great skill at alchemy before he went into seclusion.

I may have not given them enough to draw the connection on their own. I do wonder if a couple players figured it out and just didn't mention it to the rest of the party.


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Voomer wrote:
To bring up another topic, it seems strange to me that no one suspects that Caromac is the Beast's creator. Clearly many in Lepidstadt would know that the Beast is a flesh golem that must have a creator. It seems unlikely that Caromac could so thoroughly have concealed his long-term experimentations -- especially since he has been bringing in outside workers to build up the Castle. The brilliant recluse in the castle with a grudge on all of Vieland seems like a pretty obvious suspect. How have other GM's handled this? My PCs have been asking around to find out if any one has any suspicions about who the Beast's creator is; I'm feeling a little silly saying no one has any idea.

Have you read Rule of Fear? It states that Henri Moritz is believed to have created the Beast. He was involved in the peaceful uprising against Caromarc back in the day. The Beast was created as a tool of Caromarc's revenge, so I find it safe to say he used it to kill Moritz. (Not sure if that's outright stated somewhere.)

I decided he was a scientist too, and I had people tell my group the first time the Beast was seen was when it ran from Moritz' house, where his body and a weird laboratory was found, so everyone figured he created the mad monstrosity and it killed him. I had Kendra go on and on how disappointed everyone was one of the leaders of the democratic movement turned out to be a crazy monster creator.


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Thanks. I guess I missed or forgot that bit. I'm really surprised the author did not put that bit in TOTB. You would think that TOTB would have ALL of the facts related to the Beast from Rule of Fear. I guess I'll give my PCs the info about Moritz as one more bit of misdirection (since Moritz was involved in the uprising that overthrew Caromac, the PCs may be able to focus in on Caromac as the likely responsible "A.C.").

In my campaign, Adivion Adrissant is in Lepidstadt. He was in Crowl's office when the PCs arrived. I may have Adrissant pass on info that will connect the Whispering Way to Caromac, which will provide strong motivation for the PCs to go to Schloss Caromac. My rationale as to why Adrissant would give a clue to the PCs is, as others have suggested, Adrissant is annoyed at Vrood for killing Lorrimor and it would be useful for the PCs to eliminate Vrood. On the other hand, if the PCs die in Schloss Caromac, that would be a good outcome too. Adrissant is too arrogant to perceive the PCs as a serious threat.

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