Bullywug Gambit seems to assume that the PCs will talk to Harliss Javell, find out she sent her first mate to kill the Vanderborens, and then rush off to save Lavinia while Harliss makes her own way out of Kraken's Cove.
Harliss essentially admits to ordering Lavinia's death.
Most players will want to kill/capture her before leaving the cove, yet the adventure path assumes that Harliss leaves peacefully, and is on friendly terms with the PCs when they get to Scuttlecove.
Are the PCs supposed to be so awed by her fighting ability that they dare not attack?
Or so grateful for the information she gives them on the Savage Tide and the attack on Vanderboren manor that they wouldn't think to blame her for the attack?
Are the PCs supposed to be so awed by her fighting ability that they dare not attack?
That was the case with my group. When they met Harliss, she was just finishing off some attackers. I described her as being a very able fighter and after rolling a few attacks, the most experienced of my players quickly calculated that she must be at least level 11. I don't think they considered attacking her...
I've run this part of the campaign twice, and in both cases, the PCs attacked, and killed, Harliss Javell. She isn't as tough as she would otherwise be because she lacks an ally to flank with. But, she managed to kill at least one PC each time.
Ken
I've also run it twice, each time with a group of 6 PCs. The first time I don't think I made Capt. Javell's prowess clear enough, and the party defeated her (Honestly, I was quite sloppy with her abilities). Second run thru, I made a bigger production of how fast she was taking out the Savage pirates. I also reviewed the mistakes I made the first time around and clarified her combat abilities in my mind, should they attack her again. They balked at attacking her on the second run thru.
For a party of 4 balanced PC's, Harliss is probably enough to TPK. For 6 PCs, she could use a couple more levels.
Generally, if the party attack, she should try to convince them that its more important to save Lavinia than to spend time and energy on her. Dropping one of the PC's should make that evident as well.
- My group of 6 had nearly cleared the Cove out when they decided to rest; Fix: Tempt them to continue, (sounds of battle, etc.) anything to keep them moving forward.
- Harliss has a decent AC, but not a lot of hit points, especially with the extra actions 6 PCs get. Fix: Fighting defensively, tho, will make her nigh invincible.
- Harliss can be vulnerable to party's with a lot of actions; Fix: Give her a couple of extra levels, particularly in the class that gives her Feint as a Free action.
- Thinking that Harliss is so much higher level that she shouldn't have any worries with this low level party; Fix: Don't hold back or take it easy on them if they attack her, until it looks like they are going to try and retreat. if it looks like a TPK, have her express regret and give them an out.
Some quick remarks:
- IMC the PCs did not attack Harliss right away but helped her first defeat the savage pirates (although the druid did not mind that his “flaming sphere” came to close to her): I indeed stressed her fighting skills & PCs had already spent quite some resources cleaning out the cove.
- Then they talked: PCs wanted to know what happened. However, they could not convince Harliss of Lavinia’s good intentions and that they wanted Vanthus as bad as she. Despite the distrust & the threats to the extended family of Vanthus (“Nobody messes with the Crimson Fleet & lives!), I don’t think my players really wanted to attack her (memory is somewhat fuzzy here) & she left safely (Both sides were not in optimal condition for another tough fight).
- However, for completeness, IMC I here deviated from the BWG events: Vanthus coordinated his attack with his lizard folk allies operating from the Tomb of Blood Everflowing (location in Dungeon's adventure "Mad God’s Key", which I placed near Kraken's Cove & was the hideout of some evil cultists) located deeper in land. Because Harliss’ first mate and the bullywugs were following Vanthus in land, Lavinia was not directly threatened (+ the Halfling druid with his pteranodon companion rushed to warn her).
- However, in the event the PCs end up fighting Harliss, she can always try to flee or try to take a physically weaker PC as hostage to cover her flight: at this stage after several fights in the cove, most PCs won’t be at full strength anyway & risk of PC casualties during the fight is high.
- finally, +1 to Hired Sword's suggestions!
Hagor
My memory's a bit foggy, but:
When they meet Harliss, she's fighting the savage pirates. They won't know she's a quasi-enemy until they stop to talk.
Harliss doesn't want to kill Lavinia, she wants to kill Vanthus. I'd suggest you don't even mention Lavinia - just that she sent her group to the Vanderboren manor to deal with Vanthus. Harliss isn't really an enemy of the PCs then and they gain nothing by attacking her.
And this is really foggy, doesn't she offer the PCs some way to alert her minions that the PCs should not be harmed? A earring or something? You could play that up more. Harliss is thankful for the help and offers that token.
You can also build Harliss to be the CR 15 that it says she is.
(CR 15)
Female human corsair 12/swashbucker 2/duelist 2
CN Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +11; Senses Perception +20
Languages Aquan, Common, Elven, Orcish, Yuan-ti
_____________________________________________________________
AC 40, touch 26, flat-footed 40, combat 48; uncanny dodge
(+11 armor, +3 deflection, +5 Dex, +8 dodge, +3 natural)
hp 201 (16d10 + 77); DR 10/greater magic
Fort +21, Ref +23, Will +12
_____________________________________________________________
Speed 40 ft.; Mobility
Melee Cutlass +28/+23/+18/+13 (1d6 + 14 plus 6d6 chaos /15-20)
Ranged Pistol +22 ranged (1d10 /x3)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +16; Combat +22 (+32 disarm)
Atk Options Combat expertise (-5/+5), deadly stroke, parry, smell the fear +6, sneak attack +3d6, spring attack
Special Actions Captain's call (+2, 18 rounds/day), corsair's luck 3/day (+6), scourge of the seas
_____________________________________________________________
Abilities Str 16, Dex 20, Con 19, Int 19, Wis 15, Cha 23
SQ acrobatic charge, canny defense, fearsome reputation +4, grace +1, improved reaction +2, improved uncanny dodge, insightful strike, precise strike +2, seamanship +6
Feats Combat Expertise, Daring Pirate*, Dazzling Strike*, Deadly Stroke, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Initiative, Greater Disarm, Greater Feint, Mobility, Quick Draw, Shatter Defenses, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus (cutlass)
Skills Acrobatics +29, Athletics +22, Bluff +25, Diplomacy +25, Intimidate +25, Knowledge (geography) +20, Knowledge (local) +20, Perception +20, Profession (sailor) +27, Sense Motive +16, Sleight of Hand +20
Possessions Combat gear and +5 keen mithril cutlass of chaos, masterwork pistol, ammo (x10), +5 glamered mithril buccaneer's breastplate of invulnerability, earrings of protection +3 (pair of marilith shaped earrings worth 1,200 gp), amulet of natural armor +3 (jade necklace with sharktooth center worth 600 gp), vest of resistance +5, rope of climbing, boots of striding and springing
_____________________________________________________________
Design Notes: Athletics is a Climb, Jump, Swim combo skill just like Acrobatics was a Balance, Jump Tumble skill. Greater magic is my house ruled DR, it means +3 or better required. The corsair class can be found here.
My PCs didn't have a reason to kill her since they made her helpful and she urged them to get back and stop Drevoraz.
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Harliss doesn't want to kill Lavinia, she wants to kill Vanthus. I'd suggest you don't even mention Lavinia - just that she sent her group to the Vanderboren manor to deal with Vanthus. Harliss isn't really an enemy of the PCs then and they gain nothing by attacking her.
This is basically how I ran it when my group played STAP. Harliss' motivation for sending a gang to Vanderboren manor is to seek revenge on Vanthus. I don't remember if she knows anything about Lavinia. Also, remember that if the party diplomasizes Harliss, she'll help them to a small extent.
-Skeld
I think the only problem would be killing her without finding out about the attack on the Vanderborens. Serpents of Scuttlecove could easily be hooked to some other NPC
I think the only problem would be killing her without finding out about the attack on the Vanderborens. Serpents of Scuttlecove could easily be hooked to some other NPC
I agree. Serpents of Scuttlecove would work fine without being hooked to anyone besides Lavinia, I think. You don't really need Harliss to make the rest of the plot work; if the PCs decide to ally with one of the factions everything else would fall into place. If you want to use the dream sending, then any of the Jade Ravens would work (maybe even better than Harliss).
What is so bad about the PCs attacking Harliss? My PCs LOVED that part of the campaign. There were six of them both times I ran it; that probably helped!
Ken
I think the only problem would be killing her without finding out about the attack on the Vanderborens. Serpents of Scuttlecove could easily be hooked to some other NPC
Actually, her gear is a sizable haul for characters of that level and the xp for killing her is significant too esp. if, as in my case, she is not played to her fullest capabilities.
While those things aren't *bad*, they can make a party a little overpowered for the rest of the chapter and more moving forward.
What is so bad about the PCs attacking Harliss? My PCs LOVED that part of the campaign. There were six of them both times I ran it; that probably helped!
Ken
I think the only problem would be killing her without finding out about the attack on the Vanderborens. Serpents of Scuttlecove could easily be hooked to some other NPC
Actually, her gear is a sizable haul for characters of that level and the xp for killing her is significant too esp. if, as in my case, she is not played to her fullest capabilities.
While those things aren't *bad*, they can make a party a little overpowered for the rest of the chapter and more moving forward.
I kinda agree. In my campaign, I will play her to her capabilities. I can forsee no way that the pc's can beat her. However, being an experienced DM, just because I cant think of a way that she can be beaten, doesnt mean that my group cant beat her. And if they do, they've earned her gear.
I've found with my groups over the years, that if I want to stop the PC's just wading in and killing things, I just need to initiate the role-play and let them follow. All the signals you put out should be related to observing and discussing, where anyone can act at any time, not rolling for initiative ("roll for initiative" is always the signal that a fight is on). It also helps if you get your players used to the idea that NPC's can have questionable morals and motivations, but killing them all isn't neccesarily the right answer, and certainly isn't the "right" thing to do all the time. Making sure that your NPC's get a chance to actually speak before you roll for initiative is the key here - once your NPC engages them in intelligent conversation, and you can try to put forward their point of view (even if it's a bit twisted), you'll be surprised how hard it becomes for the PC's to just wade in and kill them!
When I ran this encounter, our group had already had numerous role-play encounters previously. My players also know that I often throw dodgy NPC's at them, designed to put them in positions where making a choice is difficult as there's no clear-cut "right" solution; in fact, a number of PC's have had pretty dubious morals. So when they found Harliss, she was surrounded by a number of dead foes, and fighting a few others. From memory, the PC's watched her kill the rest, during which she already initiated a conversation. Certainly I explained the situation, and let Harliss speak, before I gave any players a chance to react. In the end, I made a lot of stuff up on the fly by putting myself in her shoes as best I could (tired, and desperate to get out alive no matter what); they found Harliss to be of questionable intent, but she had useful information, and certainly seemed better than Vanthus, so my players never saw any reason to fight her.
As I say, once you engage your players in conversation with your NPC's, it becomes almost impossible for them to decide to just slaughter your NPC in cold blood. Well, certainly that's how my games have turned out over the years, with a broad group of players playing everything from santimonious paladins through to evil rogues.
In my campaign the players were really scared of fighting the savage creatures, so they were glad there was someone to help them. The nice thing is that they were actually looking for survivors, and then discovered Harliss fighting the savage pirates. They immediately joined her, and then I described her fighting style and her appearance and let her utter some cool curses. At that moment no one wanted to kill her anymore, despite her motives. They found her too cool.