Not a Spellcaster + Wands


Rules Questions


If you're using Use Magic Device to active a wand, and you're not a spellcaster by any means, do you have to roll UMD once (DC 20: wand activation) or twice (DC 20: class feature {to get the "spell list"}; DC 20: wand activation)?

The one possible defense for a one-roll UMD is on page 109 in the Core: "[Using a wand, staff, or other spell-trigger item with Use Magic Device] allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list." Does this line mean you already have the spell list before you use UMD, or does it mean you're granted the spell list to avoid rolling twice for the class feature?


Cold Pastoral wrote:

If you're using Use Magic Device to active a wand, and you're not a spellcaster by any means, do you have to roll UMD once (DC 20: wand activation) or twice (DC 20: class feature {to get the "spell list"}; DC 20: wand activation)?

The one possible defense for a one-roll UMD is on page 109 in the Core: "[Using a wand, staff, or other spell-trigger item with Use Magic Device] allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list." Does this line mean you already have the spell list before you use UMD, or does it mean you're granted the spell list to avoid rolling twice for the class feature?

Just the one wand check.


erik542 wrote:

Just the one wand check.

Sweet. Thanks for the fast reply!


what i do in this DC 15 if you have the password if you dont it 1 roll of DC 20


erik542 wrote:
Cold Pastoral wrote:

If you're using Use Magic Device to active a wand, and you're not a spellcaster by any means, do you have to roll UMD once (DC 20: wand activation) or twice (DC 20: class feature {to get the "spell list"}; DC 20: wand activation)?

The one possible defense for a one-roll UMD is on page 109 in the Core: "[Using a wand, staff, or other spell-trigger item with Use Magic Device] allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list." Does this line mean you already have the spell list before you use UMD, or does it mean you're granted the spell list to avoid rolling twice for the class feature?

Just the one wand check.

I don't know if I agree. The wording of activate wand references a class spell list, and a rogue doesn't have a class spell list to add anything to. Wouldn't they need to emulate the class feature of a spell lsit to be ability to pretend a wand spell was on it?


There is one check. The check can be for the same thing: emulate a class feature. Casters with the spell on their list don't need to make a check, so a rogue can make one check to emulate having a spell list and thus be able to cast.


Geeky Frignit wrote:
There is one check. The check can be for the same thing: emulate a class feature. Casters with the spell on their list don't need to make a check, so a rogue can make one check to emulate having a spell list and thus be able to cast.

+1


Geeky Frignit wrote:
There is one check. The check can be for the same thing: emulate a class feature. Casters with the spell on their list don't need to make a check, so a rogue can make one check to emulate having a spell list and thus be able to cast.

You don't use the emulate class feature DC for wands, you use the activate wand DC.

SRD wrote:
Use a Wand, Staff, or Other Spell Trigger Item: Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand's spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.

DC 20 flat.


chaoskin wrote:
what i do in this DC 15 if you have the password if you dont it 1 roll of DC 20

You are generous, as by the book it is DC 20 with the activation word or phrase and DC 25 without it.


Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
chaoskin wrote:
what i do in this DC 15 if you have the password if you dont it 1 roll of DC 20
You are generous, as by the book it is DC 20 with the activation word or phrase and DC 25 without it.

I'm looking at the UMD rules and I don't see anything about that.


Davick wrote:
erik542 wrote:
Cold Pastoral wrote:

If you're using Use Magic Device to active a wand, and you're not a spellcaster by any means, do you have to roll UMD once (DC 20: wand activation) or twice (DC 20: class feature {to get the "spell list"}; DC 20: wand activation)?

The one possible defense for a one-roll UMD is on page 109 in the Core: "[Using a wand, staff, or other spell-trigger item with Use Magic Device] allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list." Does this line mean you already have the spell list before you use UMD, or does it mean you're granted the spell list to avoid rolling twice for the class feature?

Just the one wand check.
I don't know if I agree. The wording of activate wand references a class spell list, and a rogue doesn't have a class spell list to add anything to. Wouldn't they need to emulate the class feature of a spell lsit to be ability to pretend a wand spell was on it?

The only time you need to emulate an ability is if the magic items requires class ability X.

Example: This item removes diseases. A paladin can expend one use of use his lay on hands ability to activate this item.

In this case since the item requires an expenditure of lay on hands, the class emulation would be necessary.

A wand has no such line requiring you to activate a class ability.


erik542 wrote:
Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
chaoskin wrote:
what i do in this DC 15 if you have the password if you dont it 1 roll of DC 20
You are generous, as by the book it is DC 20 with the activation word or phrase and DC 25 without it.
I'm looking at the UMD rules and I don't see anything about that.

Page 108 of the Core Book, right? First is the description of the spell and then the table with the DCs. Below the DC table are the descriptions of each entry on the table. This is for Activate Blindly, with a DC of 25:

Quote:


Some magic items are activated by special words, thoughts, or actions. You can activate such an item as if you were using the activation word, thought, or action, even when you’re not and even if you don’t know it. You do have to perform some equivalent activity in order to make the check. That is, you must speak, wave the item around, or otherwise attempt to get it to activate.


wraithstrike wrote:
Davick wrote:
erik542 wrote:
Cold Pastoral wrote:

If you're using Use Magic Device to active a wand, and you're not a spellcaster by any means, do you have to roll UMD once (DC 20: wand activation) or twice (DC 20: class feature {to get the "spell list"}; DC 20: wand activation)?

The one possible defense for a one-roll UMD is on page 109 in the Core: "[Using a wand, staff, or other spell-trigger item with Use Magic Device] allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list." Does this line mean you already have the spell list before you use UMD, or does it mean you're granted the spell list to avoid rolling twice for the class feature?

Just the one wand check.
I don't know if I agree. The wording of activate wand references a class spell list, and a rogue doesn't have a class spell list to add anything to. Wouldn't they need to emulate the class feature of a spell lsit to be ability to pretend a wand spell was on it?

The only time you need to emulate an ability is if the magic items requires class ability X.

Example: This item removes diseases. A paladin can expend one use of use his lay on hands ability to activate this item.

In this case since the item requires an expenditure of lay on hands, the class emulation would be necessary.

A wand has no such line requiring you to activate a class ability.

It does specifically use the word class when referring to having a spell list. And spells are listed under class features in the book and have an in depth description of how to use them. That sounds like a class feature to me. UMD doesn't say emulate activating a class feature just that you emulate having one. And just because you can emulate having a spell list doesn't mean that list automatically has the spell you wish to cast with a wand on it.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

PRD wrote:
Use a Wand, Staff, or Other Spell Trigger Item: Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand's spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.

And that's all you need to use a wand.

You don't need to replicate a particular class' 'Spells' feature because you don't actually need to be able to cast spells*. All you need is to have the spell on your 'class spell list', and that's exactly what the Use Wand DC does for you.

*Take for example a 3rd level paladin. Can't cast spells, but is explicitly mentioned in the spell trigger section as being able to use wands.

The 'Activate blindly' DC is for items you haven't identified yet.


Davick wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Davick wrote:
erik542 wrote:
Cold Pastoral wrote:

If you're using Use Magic Device to active a wand, and you're not a spellcaster by any means, do you have to roll UMD once (DC 20: wand activation) or twice (DC 20: class feature {to get the "spell list"}; DC 20: wand activation)?

The one possible defense for a one-roll UMD is on page 109 in the Core: "[Using a wand, staff, or other spell-trigger item with Use Magic Device] allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list." Does this line mean you already have the spell list before you use UMD, or does it mean you're granted the spell list to avoid rolling twice for the class feature?

Just the one wand check.
I don't know if I agree. The wording of activate wand references a class spell list, and a rogue doesn't have a class spell list to add anything to. Wouldn't they need to emulate the class feature of a spell lsit to be ability to pretend a wand spell was on it?

The only time you need to emulate an ability is if the magic items requires class ability X.

Example: This item removes diseases. A paladin can expend one use of use his lay on hands ability to activate this item.

In this case since the item requires an expenditure of lay on hands, the class emulation would be necessary.

A wand has no such line requiring you to activate a class ability.

It does specifically use the word class when referring to having a spell list. And spells are listed under class features in the book and have an in depth description of how to use them. That sounds like a class feature to me. UMD doesn't say emulate activating a class feature just that you emulate having one. And just because you can emulate having a spell list doesn't mean that list automatically has the spell you wish to cast with a wand on it.

I'd say it's perfectly possible to activate a wand by emulating the class feature "wizard spells" or "cleric spells". However, there's no point, because the minimum DC for that to work is 21 (to emulate a 1st level caster), and there's specifically a section on activating wands which only requires DC 20. So you're free to activate the wand by emulating a class ability, but you're also free to make the easier check to activate it by just triggering it.

---------

I'm kindof curious now whether you can roll a 30 to emulate a 10th level caster, and then a 35 to emulate having a stat of 20 as part of activating a staff...


Bobson wrote:
Davick wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Davick wrote:
erik542 wrote:
Cold Pastoral wrote:

If you're using Use Magic Device to active a wand, and you're not a spellcaster by any means, do you have to roll UMD once (DC 20: wand activation) or twice (DC 20: class feature {to get the "spell list"}; DC 20: wand activation)?

The one possible defense for a one-roll UMD is on page 109 in the Core: "[Using a wand, staff, or other spell-trigger item with Use Magic Device] allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list." Does this line mean you already have the spell list before you use UMD, or does it mean you're granted the spell list to avoid rolling twice for the class feature?

Just the one wand check.
I don't know if I agree. The wording of activate wand references a class spell list, and a rogue doesn't have a class spell list to add anything to. Wouldn't they need to emulate the class feature of a spell lsit to be ability to pretend a wand spell was on it?

The only time you need to emulate an ability is if the magic items requires class ability X.

Example: This item removes diseases. A paladin can expend one use of use his lay on hands ability to activate this item.

In this case since the item requires an expenditure of lay on hands, the class emulation would be necessary.

A wand has no such line requiring you to activate a class ability.

It does specifically use the word class when referring to having a spell list. And spells are listed under class features in the book and have an in depth description of how to use them. That sounds like a class feature to me. UMD doesn't say emulate activating a class feature just that you emulate having one. And just because you can emulate having a spell list doesn't mean that list automatically has the spell you wish to cast with a wand on it.
I'd say it's perfectly possible to activate a wand by emulating the class feature "wizard spells"...

I believe you missed what I was saying there.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
wraithstrike wrote:

f the magic items requires class ability X.

Example: This item removes diseases. A paladin can expend one use of use his lay on hands ability to activate this item.

In this case since the item requires an expenditure of lay on hands, the class emulation would be necessary.

A wand has no such line requiring you to activate a class ability.

That's an example where I rule that UMD will not work. In this case it's not a matter of fooling an item to turn on. If the item actually requires a certain magic effect as "fuel" no amount of UMD skill is going to be able to fake it's lack.


Davick wrote:
Bobson wrote:
Davick wrote:
It does specifically use the word class when referring to having a spell list. And spells are listed under class features in the book and have an in depth description of how to use them. That sounds like a class feature to me. UMD doesn't say emulate activating a class feature just that you emulate having one. And just because you can emulate having a spell list doesn't mean that list automatically has the spell you wish to cast with a wand on it.

I'd say it's perfectly possible to activate a wand by emulating the class feature "wizard spells" or "cleric spells". However, there's no point, because the minimum DC for that to work is 21 (to emulate a 1st level caster), and there's specifically a section on activating wands which only requires DC 20. So you're free to activate the wand by emulating a class ability, but you're also free to make the easier check to activate it by just triggering it.

I believe you missed what I was saying there.

So re-explain it. As I read it, you were saying that because normal use of a wand requires having a given spell on your spell list, you are arguing that you have to emulate the class feature of having a spell list. And then you said something I don't understand about emulating a spell list which doesn't have that spell on it, which is rather pointless - if I want to use a CLW wand, I'm going to want to emulate a cleric, not a wizard.

My response to that was "No, there's specifically a rule on activating wands which has nothing to do with having a spell list. If you really want to, you can choose to do it the harder way, but there's no point."

If I missed what you were saying, please clarify.


Bobson wrote:
Davick wrote:
Bobson wrote:
Davick wrote:
It does specifically use the word class when referring to having a spell list. And spells are listed under class features in the book and have an in depth description of how to use them. That sounds like a class feature to me. UMD doesn't say emulate activating a class feature just that you emulate having one. And just because you can emulate having a spell list doesn't mean that list automatically has the spell you wish to cast with a wand on it.

I'd say it's perfectly possible to activate a wand by emulating the class feature "wizard spells" or "cleric spells". However, there's no point, because the minimum DC for that to work is 21 (to emulate a 1st level caster), and there's specifically a section on activating wands which only requires DC 20. So you're free to activate the wand by emulating a class ability, but you're also free to make the easier check to activate it by just triggering it.

I believe you missed what I was saying there.

I want to use a CLW wand, I'm going to want to emulate a cleric, not a wizard.

My response to that was "No, there's specifically a rule on activating wands which has nothing to do with having a spell list. If you really want to, you can choose to do it the harder way, but there's no point."

If I missed what you were saying, please clarify.

You're right about the first part, I was a little wrong there, but when you say has nothing to do with having a spell list, you're wrong there. It DOES call out having a spell list specifically, and without one you can't use the wand. It makes sense then that the dc for a rogue to emulate having a spell list to use a wand is higher than the wizard using a cleric's wand, as he would be less inclined to magic.


Davick wrote:
Bobson wrote:
Davick wrote:
Bobson wrote:
Davick wrote:
It does specifically use the word class when referring to having a spell list. And spells are listed under class features in the book and have an in depth description of how to use them. That sounds like a class feature to me. UMD doesn't say emulate activating a class feature just that you emulate having one. And just because you can emulate having a spell list doesn't mean that list automatically has the spell you wish to cast with a wand on it.

I'd say it's perfectly possible to activate a wand by emulating the class feature "wizard spells" or "cleric spells". However, there's no point, because the minimum DC for that to work is 21 (to emulate a 1st level caster), and there's specifically a section on activating wands which only requires DC 20. So you're free to activate the wand by emulating a class ability, but you're also free to make the easier check to activate it by just triggering it.

I believe you missed what I was saying there.

I want to use a CLW wand, I'm going to want to emulate a cleric, not a wizard.

My response to that was "No, there's specifically a rule on activating wands which has nothing to do with having a spell list. If you really want to, you can choose to do it the harder way, but there's no point."

If I missed what you were saying, please clarify.

You're right about the first part, I was a little wrong there, but when you say has nothing to do with having a spell list, you're wrong there. It DOES call out having a spell list specifically, and without one you can't use the wand. It makes sense then that the dc for a rogue to emulate having a spell list to use a wand is higher than the wizard using a cleric's wand, as he would be less inclined to magic.
[url=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/use-magic-device wrote:
PRD[/url]]Use a Wand, Staff, or Other Spell Trigger Item: Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand's spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.

The table assigns this use a DC 20. Feel free to house rule it otherwise, but RAW is very clearly that anyone, from the fighter to the rogue to the wizard, has exactly the same DC to use a clerical wand: 20.

Looking at it closely, I can see how you can argue that if you don't have a spell list, you can't use a wand as if it was on that list, but I and I think everyone else has always read it as "You make this check, and you're treated as meeting the requirement 'Have the spell on your spell list'" It's not pretending to have a given spell - it's bypassing the requirement.


I could agree with you if not for that word CLASS right before it says spell list. A fighter doesn't have a class spell list. A wizard does. So by RAW it's very clearly confusing. If you can look at it and see how it can be interpreted one way, and also another then RAW isn't clearly anything.

On a sidenote: RAW and RAI are becoming nothing more than buzzwords on these boards with no real meaning at all.


Davick wrote:

I could agree with you if not for that word CLASS right before it says spell list. A fighter doesn't have a class spell list. A wizard does. So by RAW it's very clearly confusing. If you can look at it and see how it can be interpreted one way, and also another then RAW isn't clearly anything.

On a sidenote: RAW and RAI are becoming nothing more than buzzwords on these boards with no real meaning at all.

They have specific meanings. One is more like the letter of the law, and the other is more like the spirit of the law. The fact that wands have their own entry means that is how it works. It would also be explained clearly if you had to make more than one UMD roll, like you do with scrolls. If you compare the wand and scroll lines in UMD you see they are very much different.

PRD: Use a Wand, Staff, or Other Spell Trigger Item: Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand's spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.

The bolded area is saying the wand activation allows you to pretend as if the spell is available for access to you.

Notice that scrolls, which is a spell completion item as opposed to a spell trigger item has different rules, and requires two rolls.

Use a Scroll: Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll's spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don't have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check.

This use of the skill also applies to other spell completion magic items.


most are making this more complicated than it actually is.

Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. [b]Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell.[b]


oooops botched that lol.

Benchak the Nightstalker is completely right.

all you need to use wands is have the appropriate spell on your spell list and the wand needs to be identified. you don't even need to be able to cast the spell at your current level.

example: a level 1 cleric can use a wand of cure critical wounds with no DC check what so ever.

the rules reiterates this by giving an example of a 3rd level paladin using a wand of cure light wounds- who can't even cast spell yet.

having it on your spell list and having it in your spells KNOWN are two different things!

Bobson-your incorrect about emulating a 1st level caster= DC 21.

Emulate a class feature= DC20. emulating the class feature of a wizard (spell list) for example would give you all spells on the wizard spell list all the way to 9th level spells. Remember "on" your spell list and your spells KNOWN are completely different.

This is why emulating a class feature AND activating a wand is the SAME DC. Because to activate a wand you ARE emulating a class feature- spell list.

This might seem overpowered but if you botch the DC check it still uses charges. AND you still have to buy the wands to use in the first place.

this why a curtain player of mine who plays a rogue dipped into 1 level of sorcerer and cleric. This makes it so he can be a wand wielder and doesn't have to put points into UMD. He can use just about ANY divine or arcane wand! Our fighter also dipped into oracle so he could use divine wands lol. It's worth a dip in my book to gain free access to divine or arcane wands. A fighter who can use cure wands and buff himself is stronger overall than a pure fighter for very few drawbacks in my book. A rogue who can turn himself invisible or dimension door out when discovered. I fighter who can back off and cure himself or bull strength or divine might himself. this frees up other casters from having to boost and pump the other players every battle.


wraithstrike wrote:
Davick wrote:

I could agree with you if not for that word CLASS right before it says spell list. A fighter doesn't have a class spell list. A wizard does. So by RAW it's very clearly confusing. If you can look at it and see how it can be interpreted one way, and also another then RAW isn't clearly anything.

On a sidenote: RAW and RAI are becoming nothing more than buzzwords on these boards with no real meaning at all.

They have specific meanings. One is more like the letter of the law, and the other is more like the spirit of the law. The fact that wands have their own entry means that is how it works. It would also be explained clearly if you had to make more than one UMD roll, like you do with scrolls. If you compare the wand and scroll lines in UMD you see they are very much different.

PRD: Use a Wand, Staff, or Other Spell Trigger Item: Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand's spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.

The bolded area is saying the wand activation allows you to pretend as if the spell is available for access to you.

Notice that scrolls, which is a spell completion item as opposed to a spell trigger item has different rules, and requires two rolls.

Use a Scroll: Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll's spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don't have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check.

This use of the skill also applies to other spell completion magic items.

I'm well aware of their intended meanings, but I see too many people using them improperly, like saying their intent is RAI.

You have compelling evidence here with this scroll bit, and this would support a RAI interpretation, and has leeway towards RAW, but I still just can't overlook what is right there, which is that the wizard says spells right there under their class features and other classes don't. Oh well


Davick wrote:


I'm well aware of their intended meanings, but I see too many people using them improperly, like saying their intent is RAI.

You have compelling evidence here with this scroll bit, and this would support a RAI interpretation, and has leeway towards RAW, but I still just can't overlook what is right there, which is that the wizard says spells right there under their class features and other classes don't. Oh well

The ability to cast spells is a class feature. The class list just tells you which ones they can cast. The list itself is not a class feature. It is a list just like the fighter has a list of weapons that it can use.

Edit:RAW you only have to make the wand check. If you look into the 3.5's player's handbook there is an example of activating a magic item by pretending to turn undead. This is needed because a class ability is supposed to be used to activate the item. With the wand there is no spell being used, or pretending to be used.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Ok, but again, like I pointed out, the 'Spells' class feature isn't actually what gives you a 'class spell list'.

Paladins and Rangers don't get the 'Spells' class feature until 4th level, but both classes have a 'class spell list' from the very start.

What gives you a 'class spell list' is chapter 10 of the core rulebook.


You have a point, but read the edit from my last post. It supports my earlier post that you only need to use the "emulate class ability" feature of UMD when a class ability needs to be activated/used.

edit:With a wand the user is not activating anything or casting any spells.


RunebladeX wrote:


Bobson-your incorrect about emulating a 1st level caster= DC 21.

Emulate a class feature= DC20. emulating the class feature of a wizard (spell list) for example would give you all spells on the wizard spell list all the way to 9th level spells. Remember "on" your spell list and your spells KNOWN are completely different.

This is why emulating a class feature AND activating a wand is the SAME DC. Because to activate a wand you ARE emulating a class feature- spell list.

PRD wrote:
Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20.

In order to emulate a 1st level caster, you need an effective level of 1. Which means a roll of 20+1.

That being said, Benchak's point about paladins and rangers makes a lot of sense. With that point in mind, I wouldn't allow a harder-than-necessary check to emulate a class feature to use the wand. Your only option is the "use wand" DC.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

@Wraithstrike

Sorry, I meant that as a response to Davick. I guess you kinda Ninja'd me there. :D


Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Ok, but again, like I pointed out, the 'Spells' class feature isn't actually what gives you a 'class spell list'.

Paladins and Rangers don't get the 'Spells' class feature until 4th level, but both classes have a 'class spell list' from the very start.

What gives you a 'class spell list' is chapter 10 of the core rulebook.

This is an interesting point, but like you said it's right there in Chapter 10. Ranger/Paladin spell list. But what you won't find is a Rogue/Fighter spell list. You almost had me convinced until you pointed that out.


Davick wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Ok, but again, like I pointed out, the 'Spells' class feature isn't actually what gives you a 'class spell list'.

Paladins and Rangers don't get the 'Spells' class feature until 4th level, but both classes have a 'class spell list' from the very start.

What gives you a 'class spell list' is chapter 10 of the core rulebook.

This is an interesting point, but like you said it's right there in Chapter 10. Ranger/Paladin spell list. But what you won't find is a Rogue/Fighter spell list. You almost had me convinced until you pointed that out.

The UMD for the wand specifically states that they get to activate the wand as if you had the spell on your spell list.

I realized the wording could have been "as if you had access to that class's spell list" or something similar, but I think the intent is rather clear.

The answer in the FAQ is to another question, but it contains the answer to your question, never the less.

3.5 FAQ:

I’m trying to find out if my rogue, wearing leather
armor, can make a Use Magic Device check to trigger a
wand containing an arcane spell. What is the DC for doing
so?
It appears from the rules that the armor will cause a
10% chance of arcane spell failure, if the spell being cast
has a somatic (S) component (Player’s Handbook, page 122).
Is it true that casting a spell from a spell-trigger item, such
as a wand, removes the requirement for the somatic
component, and thereby eliminates this 10% chance of
failure?

The Use Magic Device skill is for using magic items that
you normally could not otherwise activate. Activating a wand
has a DC of 20, as shown on the table in the Use Magic Device
skill description. However, this assumes that you already know
what spell the wand stores. If you don’t, you have to activate
the wand blindly (DC 25). If you successfully activate a wand
blindly, you know what spell it contains, and your subsequent
attempts to activate that particular wand are at DC 20.

There’s no arcane spell failure chance for activating a spell
trigger item, for a command word item, or for a use-activated
item. There is an arcane spell failure chance for activating a
scroll (a spell completion item), provided the spell stored on the
scroll has a somatic component.

Now since UMD has the same rules in 3.5 as in Pathfinder, and the this is from the 3.5 FAQ I think that should take care of the issue.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

wraithstrike wrote:

The UMD for the wand specifically states that they get to activate the wand as if you had the spell on your spell list.

I realized the wording could have been "as if you had access to that class's spell list" or something similar, but I think the intent is rather clear.

The answer in the FAQ is to another question, but it contains the answer to your question, never the less.
** spoiler omitted **...

+1

I mean, I can understand the confusion Davick, but I think you're really overthinking things, (or arguing for the heck of it?).

Use Wand = Use Wand. Nuff said.

Shadow Lodge

Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:

The UMD for the wand specifically states that they get to activate the wand as if you had the spell on your spell list.

I realized the wording could have been "as if you had access to that class's spell list" or something similar, but I think the intent is rather clear.

The answer in the FAQ is to another question, but it contains the answer to your question, never the less.
** spoiler omitted **...

+1

I mean, I can understand the confusion Davick, but I think you're really overthinking things, (or arguing for the heck of it?).

Use Wand = Use Wand. Nuff said.

hehe... you should be working on... stuff, not arguing rules questions ;)

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