Boneshatter vs Bone Devil


Rules Questions


Boneshatter
Source Osirion: Land of Pharoahs 26
School necromancy; Level cleric 5, sorcerer/wizard 4
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a broken bone)
Effect
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one corporeal creature or object
Duration instantaneous and 1 minute/level (see text)
Saving Throw Fortitude partial (see text); Spell Resistance yes
Description
The target’s bones or exoskeleton shiver and splinter, dealing 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 15d6) to the target, who is also exhausted for 1 minute per caster level from the pain and exertion of the transformation.

If the target makes its save, it takes half damage and is fatigued rather than exhausted. Objects made of bone, chitin, or similar material take half again as much (+50%) damage from this spell. This spell has no effect on creatures that lack both skeletons and hard carapaces.
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Would this spell do the extra +50% damage to a Bone Devil?

Yes, no, maybe, and why you think so.


I'm going to say no.

The spell specifically says "Objects mad of..."

The bone devel is a creature, not an object. Object, though having no definition in the rules (as far as I'm aware), refers to a non-sentient, non-animate item. For example, i would say that a statue made or carved out of bone(s), or a few armors i can think of from 3.5 edition, would be subject to the extra damage, but not a sentient creature of any sort.


Elven_Blades wrote:


I'm going to say no.

I would second your opinion and reasoning.

Sovereign Court

Windquake wrote:
Elven_Blades wrote:


I'm going to say no.
I would second your opinion and reasoning.

RAW, no. As a DM, I would say yes.


The description for the +50% specifically says objects. It won't work on a bone devil.

It may (depending on DM) work on bone golems (if they exist somewhere) or non-inteligent skeletons. For flavor purposes I would allow this as a DM.


No, please dont discriminate this devil because of it's name, only objects, though this might include some constructs.


RAW - no

However, after reading the spell description and what it supposedly does, it makes me wonder if the spells author forgot to add "and creatures" to that second to last sentence.

Since the spell does not affect certain creatures at all, it hardly seems fair or logical (according to the effect) to say it won't effect an ooze if it doesn't do the extra damage to an undead skeleton, bone devil, or anything else with an obviously large and thick carapace (high natural armor bonus).

So I would say Yes for my games but this is definitely a spell I hope shows up in ultimate magic with a re-write.


The duration of that spell is badly thought out.
The duration of the spell should just be instantaneous, with the exhaustion/fatigue effect having a given duration. By making the spell a minute/level duration, it now produces an ongoing magical effect that can be detected or dispelled. The exhaustion/fatigue should be a nonmagical repercussion of your bones splintering, not the result of ongoing necromantic magic.


AvalonXQ wrote:

The duration of that spell is badly thought out.

The duration of the spell should just be instantaneous, with the exhaustion/fatigue effect having a given duration.

Unless the book's spell description is different than what the TC pasted, the duration seems quite clear.


The Bone Devil would not take the additional +50% of damage.

Objects would normally apply their hardness against the damage from this spell. They still do, but the +50% offsets the hardness to a point. I imagine that could be a reason for the extra damage; the designer likely felt that hardness should matter less against this spell than against most others.


UltimaGabe wrote:
AvalonXQ wrote:

The duration of that spell is badly thought out.

The duration of the spell should just be instantaneous, with the exhaustion/fatigue effect having a given duration.
Unless the book's spell description is different than what the TC pasted, the duration seems quite clear.

As in, you don't agree that I could cast Dispel Magic to get rid of the exhaustion effect?


AvalonXQ wrote:
As in, you don't agree that I could cast Dispel Magic to get rid of the exhaustion effect?

Yeah you can use dispel magic to end the boneshatter effect. This isn't like the waves of fatigue/exhaustion spell, which simply grant the fatigued/exhausted condition. This spell just causes that condition *for a specified amount of time*. And since the spell is causing the effect, it can be dispelled.


meabolex wrote:
AvalonXQ wrote:
As in, you don't agree that I could cast Dispel Magic to get rid of the exhaustion effect?
Yeah you can use dispel magic to end the boneshatter effect. This isn't like the waves of fatigue/exhaustion spell, which simply grant the fatigued/exhausted condition. This spell just causes that condition *for a specified amount of time*. And since the spell is causing the effect, it can be dispelled.

I agree that this is what the spell does as written, and I disagree that this is what the spell SHOULD do. It should be an instantaneous spell with exhaustion/fatigue being a nonmagical consequence of having one's bones shattered. That is much more elegant and makes much more sense than the effect as written.


It doesn't do extra damage against regular undead skeletons. Why should it do extra against things that are not skeletons but are just skeleton-like?


you see, everything being situational. if the LE cleric is just summoning the bone devil as a back up and the PC's have already a tactical advantage, I would rule no. but on the other hand if the PC's just beat up their butts retrieving the lost child of the princess from the evil cultists and they are well under their 50% capacity, and the bone devil was just a "random encounter" while exiting the damned ruins, I would just allow it, mostly for flavor... on a situation like this i would just pull some "divine blessing" going on, etc...


AvalonXQ wrote:
I agree that this is what the spell does as written, and I disagree that this is what the spell SHOULD do. It should be an instantaneous spell with exhaustion/fatigue being a nonmagical consequence of having one's bones shattered. That is much more elegant and makes much more sense than the effect as written.

Actually, that's kind of how I read it. Based on spells like Waves of Exhaustion, and also how exhausted typically lasts for 1 hour, i assumed that the purpose for the duration on this spell was to point out that the "exhausted" condition did not last for the standard duration. I further assumed that exhausted would be fixable from all standard methods, but not dispel.


Hard to call. Gamewise, maybe, maybe not, after all, we are talking about a being from what is essentially another dimension, I doubt a spell made in a different dimension from this creature would affect it at all, also keep in mind that this guy might not actually be made if bone, for all we know, he might be a malnourished, albino pit fiend! Seriously though depends on how seriously you take the game, if you look at it from a scientific or heavily rped point of view, likely not, if you just treated it as a board game, I would say yes.

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