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OK, I'm toying with converting some of these beasties to the current ruleset.
The following is the weaker of the five subspecies, first introduced in the 2nd-Edition boxed set TROSP.
I have changed them from their listed race (tanar'ri) to qlippoth, as I believe it fits their written background better (The Battle of Pesh taking place during pre-mortal history), and because we have more than enough tanar'ri already.
Can anyone see any issues with the statblock below?
What CR would you set?
Obviously, any of my players keep out.
CE Medium outsider (chaotic, evil, extraplanar, qlippoth)
Init +8, Senses Perception +5, darkvision 60’
Languages Abyssal, telepathy (touch)
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AC 15 (+4 Dex, +1 natural) touch 14, flat-footed 11
hp 24 (4d10+4)
DR 5/cold iron or lawful
Immune cold, mind-affecting, poison
Resist acid 10, electric 10, fire 10
Vulnerable
Fort +2, Ref +8, Will +4
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Spd 30 ft. climb 30 ft.
Melee bite+8 (d6+1+poison)
Ranged fishing lure +8 (60 ft ranged touch, pull 10 ft)
Base Atk +4; CMB +5 (+9 to pull), CMD 19 (23 vs bullrush or pull, 31 vs trip)
Special Atk Options horrific appearance (DC 12), poison (DC 15)
Spell-like abilities (CL 4) at will: darkness,
1/day: summon qlippoth
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Abilities Str 13, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 5, Wis 10, Cha 11
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
Skills (12) Acrobatics (Dex) +16, Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str) +13, Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex) +8, Fly (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha) +4, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (dung), Knowledge (eng), Knowledge (geog), Knowledge (hist), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (nobility), Knowledge (planes) +1, Knowledge (religion), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis) +5, Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis) +4, Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex) +11, Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Magic Device (Cha).
Equipment: none
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Environment any (Abyss)
Organization solitary or pack (2–12)
Treasure none
The above stats include a +8 racial bonus to Acrobatics and Climb, plus a +2 racial bonus to the poison DC.
The fiends known as kakkuu (pronounced Kah-KOO) combine the worst aspects of a wolf and a spider. They have an arachnid body the size of a small pony, with a lupine head and neck growing from the front, where a spider’s eyes would be. The mouth is full of yellow, dog-like teeth, with an extra pair of spider fangs alongside the primary canines.
The head and neck are covered with matted, dirty fur. Under the grime, the fur is gray with lighter patches round the eyes and snout.
The body and legs are covered with sandy-brown stiff hairs, with occasional spots or stripes. The legs end in pads and claws that allow them to climb vertical surfaces.
Fishing Lure (Ex): The kakkuu can also create a glob of silk and glue the size of a fist. It perches over a trail or passage, dropping this, and swinging it like a pendulum. It is unable to throw the lure horizontally. Any creature along the path of the lure (a vertical line up to 60 ft long) may be snared. Treat this as a ranged touch attack with no range increment. A creature struck is stuck to the sticky thread. Test for the closest creature first, and once one creature is snared, the lure has no effect on creatures lower down. The kakkuu will ready an action to begin pulling the target once it feels it has been caught. The lure has a breaking strain of 1000 lb, though the kakkuu can only lift 500lb.
As a standard action, a creature can rip the filament free with a DC 15 Strength check. A caught creature can also attempt to escape a filament by making a DC 25 Escape Artist check. A filament is AC 14 (touch 12), has 5 hit points, and has DR 5/slashing. An application of liquid with high alcohol content (or a dose of universal solvent) dissolves the adhesive and releases the creature caught by the filament. A kakkuu can have only one filament active at a time.
Horrific Appearance (Su): A kakkuu may use a standard action to perform a threatening display. Creatures that succumb to a kakkuu’s horrific appearance become sickened for 1d4 rounds—a kakkuu’s horrific appearance only functions to a range of 10 feet. Once a creature makes a saving throw against a particular kakkuu’s horrific appearance, that creature is immune to the horrific appearance of other kakkuu for 24 hours.
Natural Coloring (Ex): A kakkuu in forest, jungle or undergrowth has a +4 bonus to Stealth checks.
Poison (Ex): Styxian Cramp bite-injury: save Fort DC 15, onset 1d4 rounds; frequency once per 2 hours; Initial Effect 2 Dex damage; Secondary Effect Unconsciousness for 2 hours. Cure 1 save.
Silk (Ex): A kakkuu’s abdomen is equipped with spinnerets that can produce strands of silk. They do not spin webs, but can use this in various ways. Most often, they use the silk to suspend themselves above their prey, or to lay a network of strands through an area to allow movement in three dimensions. A kakkuu may throw a line up to 90 feet to bridge a gap.
The silk can also be used to tie up a poisoned enemy, taking 3 rounds to wrap a Medium creature. The trapped creature may attempt to escape by making an Escape Artist check (DC 13) or a Strength check of (DC 17).
Slow Fall (Ex): A kakkuu suffers no damage from falling if there is a surface within 90 feet that could be used as an anchor for their silk line.
Stability (Ex): Due to its extra legs, a kakkuu gains a +4 to CMB when attempting to pull a target, a +4 bonus to CMD vs bull rush or pull attempts, and a +12 bonus vs being tripped.
Summon Qlippoth (Sp): Once per day, a kakkuu can attempt to summon 1d3 fellow kakkuu, with a 35% chance of success.
Telepathy (Su): Kakkuu may communicate via primitive symbolism with any creature it touches. A kakkuu has a limited knowledge of Abyssal, communicating mostly through snarls, barks and howls.
TACTICS
Spyder-fiends prefer ambush to frontal attack. They typically lie in wait, dropping from above on a line of silk, or rushing from concealment.
As the least of the spyder-fiends, kakkuu are bloodthirsty and animalistic. As such, they are often driven ahead of their kin to draw the enemy from hiding.
HABITAT/SOCIETY
Spyder-fiends are the primary residents of The Steaming Fen, a layer of the Abyss that consists of a vast salt marsh and turbulent ocean. The marsh and ocean are studded with outcroppings of rock, some covered with jungle vegetation. The whole plane is dank and smells of decay. The air is thick with biting and stinging insects, and the ground and water seethe with vermin.
Spyder-fiends pay homage to a queen, who rules the plane. She sometimes sends her minions on errands across the multiverse, loaning them out to other qlippoth in the never-ending war against the tanar’ri and the daemons of Abaddon.
The more intelligent sub-races will sometimes travel the planes on errands of their own.
Spyder-fiends will eat any prey they can catch, preferably while the prey is still alive. The more powerful derive nourishment from their prey’s life-force and fear.
They have little to fear in their home layer of the Abyss, except each other.
Designers Notes: To establish the baseline ability scores, I referenced a Medium Giant Spider, on the assumption the kakkuu would be at least as proficient as its nearest comparative creature.
Strength was established by the carrying capacity set in TROSP, allowing for the quadruped bonus. Intelligence was set as 1 point higher than listed in TROSP, to reflect the differing scale of ability scores in 3E.
I chose the four bonus skills as Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist and Intimidate, to reflect its physical movement and horrific visage.
Hunting spider body gives +8 Acrobatics, Climb speed gives +8 climb.
Regular spider venom is at +2 DC from the expected norm, so kept that in.
Spiders CMD includes a +12 bonus vs trip (+4 per extra pair of legs?). That, too, would seem to be a good ability to include, plus a stability bonus vs bull rush.
I referenced the cave fisher for the lure rules, though I reduced the strength and DR of the line, to avoid completely stealing that creature’s schtick.
Seems to be decently created monster. CR is a bit high for its apparent capabilities, but setting CR is more of an art than science: looking at avarage values by CR in monster creation section I think thatit has HP of creature 1-1/2 CR lower, AC of creature 1 CR lower, attack bonus of creature of CR 4, very low damage. I think that I would give it CR 3, but this is early estimate - its special abilities might get it back to 4.
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Thanks for the comments.
Yes, I do believe the CR's probably not a great fit, for a stand-up fight. I'm hoping the DR compensates for the AC and hp, absorbing the bonus damage from the inevitable Power Attacks it will draw, once the PCs realize their blows are not having full effect.
Even so, I expect it to go down like a wet souffle in two hits (or one crit) from a level 4, Str 18 greatsword wielder, DR or no.
The Cave Fisher is CR2, which is close to the combat role I expect it to fill. The DR, and energy resistances, are likely to reduce the effects of incoming shots early on, when it latches onto one of the PCs.
The average scorching ray will wing it, or a pair of magic missiles, and maybe force it to keep its head down, and tail the PCs till they drop their guard.
Are you familiar with the original 2E material?
I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who is, to know if those stats are still recognizable as the same creature.
I got the Rod of 7 parts box, I am looking at it as I type.
1) I think they should be demons, since the wolfspider the progenitor of the race was actually the first prince of demons (tan'ar'ri) and overall the spiderfiends are spidery which is qlipoth like, but they appear a bit too 'anatomically correct' and the greater fiends have decidedly humanoid features which isnt done as a qlipoth in my opinion, though I think they are essentially half of both they seem to favor the wolfspider/demon side. I'd swap the resitances and such, but keep it's horrific visage and the DR/lawful to reflect their mixed heritage.
2) the kakkuu were rather fast with move 18, I think making it move 40' would be fair, also makes them better leapers, which is kinda cool :)
3) str 16, dex 16, con 13, int 5, wis 10 cha 11 with a +4 natural armor, giving it ac 17, much closer to the ac of 2nd edition (ac 2), natural armor +1 is really unfitting for any kind of demon, a dretch has +3 natural armor and a worg +2, demonic wolf/spider should have +4 or +5.
4) poison seems a bit complicated, I know poisons were like that in 2nd edition, but it might be better to just go with dex damage in my opinion.
5) weapon finesse would not be needed anymore, I'd give it great fortitude or blind-fight instead
6) trip(ex) might make for a nice additional benefit, making them much more effective as packhunters and makes sense being part wolf
7) 15'feet tremorsense is a good addition as well I think borrowed from spiders, greater spiderfiends will have beter sensing abilities.
8) your hp calculation is a bit off 4d10+4 will average 26hp
Curious to see what you do with them anyway, I will love to give you feedback, really liked DMing Rod of Seven Parts as a somewhat rookie DM hehe
I don't have Rod Of The Seven Parts and I just know only the basic legend behind the Rod so I cannot comment from that point.
The poison simplification is good idea, to make it more along the lines of Pathfinder poisons, but it is not necessary - but the frequency time should be shortened - otherwise its usefulness in combat is very limited (2 hours before the poison has chance to incapacitate target means that the combat is long over before they have chance of webwrapping victim).
I remember running this, way back when.
The smallest ones are not that great in a straight up fight, true. They should NEVER be in a straight up fight. With darkness and webs, players were fighting them with one hand behind their back. If you got in some of the poison, even better.
Fights were aggravating and slow, and players grew to hate these guys, which is what I wanted.
I'd consider looking at the web attack that monstrous spiders have in the PF bestiary. It works fine, so you don't need to invent something similar to replace it. Describe it however you like.
I'd also vote for demons. It gets the feel right, and allows for the use of things like smite evil by the players, which is appropriate.
At higher levels, banishment would work, too. And it should, the Rod of seven parts is a plane-spanning adventure.
I remember running this, way back when.
The smallest ones are not that great in a straight up fight, true. They should NEVER be in a straight up fight. With darkness and webs, players were fighting them with one hand behind their back. If you got in some of the poison, even better.
Fights were aggravating and slow, and players grew to hate these guys, which is what I wanted.
I'd consider looking at the web attack that monstrous spiders have in the PF bestiary. It works fine, so you don't need to invent something similar to replace it. Describe it however you like.
I'd also vote for demons. It gets the feel right, and allows for the use of things like smite evil by the players, which is appropriate.
At higher levels, banishment would work, too. And it should, the Rod of seven parts is a plane-spanning adventure.
It should be said that darkness is now a less impressive ability.
Also Qlipoths are equally as evil CE outsiders from the abyss, just older and more alien to humanoids, traditionally the spyderfiends were the offspring of The Queen of Chaos, a powerful Qlipoth Lord and Miska the Wolf-spider, the first prince of demons and demonlord, so they could be both, just think Demon is more appropriate.
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I got the Rod of 7 parts box, I am looking at it as I type.
1) I think they should be demons, since the wolfspider the progenitor of the race was actually the first prince of demons (tan'ar'ri) and overall the spiderfiends are spidery which is qlipoth like, but they appear a bit too 'anatomically correct' and the greater fiends have decidedly humanoid features which isnt done as a qlipoth in my opinion, though I think they are essentially half of both they seem to favor the wolfspider/demon side. I'd swap the resitances and such, but keep it's horrific visage and the DR/lawful to reflect their mixed heritage.
At this point in my game, I've committed myself to them being qlippoth.
I'm running Age of Worms, and planning on replacing one of the encounters in Gathering of Winds (a spider-like creature) with something more themed.The patron NPC, and fount of all knowledge on the Vaati archaeology, just gave the players a huge spiel about the participants of the Battle of Pesh. In many of the carvings they found, the text gives details of the forces of Chaos being joined by the spawn of Juiblex, who is mentioned by name in the PF Bestiary as one of the original qlippoth lords who made the leap to tanar'ri.
Since the battle took place thousands of years ago, I decided to treat the Chaos forces as being qlippoth, before the taint of mortal souls 'spoiled' their Abyss.
It wasn't a choice I made lightly, but I totally respect anyone who prefers that they remain tanar'ri, as originally written.
Since the battle took place thousands of years ago, I decided to treat the Chaos forces as being qlippoth, before the taint of mortal souls 'spoiled' their Abyss.
It wasn't a choice I made lightly, but I totally respect anyone who prefers that they remain tanar'ri, as originally written.
As far as I know qlippoth as such are very recent addition to D&D, I think that they appeared for the first time in 3rd edition, probably even 3.5 so the designers of the Rod Of Seven Parts had little chance of making them qlippoth, which mean your reasoning may be perfectly correct.
I think I got the information from WotC Hordes of the Abyss actually, though Qlippoth are Obeyrith there ofcourse..
Queen of Chaos was a powerful, if not the most powerful Qlippoth Lord, the Tanar'ri/Demons were a servitor race at that point in time and she raised Miska from the ranks of the demons to be the Prince of Demons and took him as her consort.
The Spyderfiends just do not appear alien enough to me to qualify as Qlippoth, though naming them Demons as such might also not be correct.
I personally find it easy to imagine the hierachy of the spyderfiends with Miska on the top of the foodchain and make the bunch of them demons, though there is no reason to assume they were formed from mortal souls, they might just be a unique kind of creature in their own right.
I think I would settle to make Spyderfiends their own kind perhaps, I do not feel it is a bad choice making them Qlippoth and it might fit the kakkuu well, but I have my doubts it fits the more evolved Spyderfiends.
Lets just assume they are Qlippoth and move on, I am curious what we can do with all the spyderfiends :)
About the poison, the main reason I vote for dex damage is that I'd like to see it have an impact in the battle. Having players be knocked out 2 hours later might just be annoying at best.
Perhaps model the poison after a quasit's, with a slightly higher DC:
injury; save fortitude DC 15; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d2 dexterity; cure 2 consecutive saves
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I originally wrote;
Poison (Ex): Styxian Cramp bite-injury: save Fort DC 15, onset 1d4 rounds; frequency once per 2 hours; Initial Effect 2 Dex damage; Secondary Effect Unconsciousness for 2 hours. Cure 1 save.
Using the rules in the SRD, I read that as an initial save on injury; if successful, nothing happens, if failed, a second save is made at the onset time, d4 rounds later.
At the onset time, if the second save is made, there's no effect; if failed, both the initial and secondary effect takes place.
Further saves take place after each increment in the frequency entry, either indefinitely, until the duration runs out, or until the cure conditions are met.
It does look like PF poison got seriously reduced in potency, if a target has to fail two consecutive saves to take any effect. Given that it's not long before PCs only fail their saves on a natural 1. Or maybe that's just my group :(.
As the baseline rules are written, there doesn't appear to be a way to inflict an initial effect without the secondary effect, or to model a poison to cause reduced effect on a successful save.
I originally wrote;
Poison (Ex): Styxian Cramp bite-injury: save Fort DC 15, onset 1d4 rounds; frequency once per 2 hours; Initial Effect 2 Dex damage; Secondary Effect Unconsciousness for 2 hours. Cure 1 save.
Using the rules in the SRD, I read that as an initial save on injury; if successful, nothing happens, if failed, a second save is made at the onset time, d4 rounds later.
At the onset time, if the second save is made, there's no effect; if failed, both the initial and secondary effect takes place.
Further saves take place after each increment in the frequency entry, either indefinitely, until the duration runs out, or until the cure conditions are met.
The Onset value is optional and normally not used for poisons but for other afflictions like disease. If you look at other poisons in the SRD, you will see that a usual poison would have something like:
Quasit Poison : injury: save Fort DC 13; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; Effect 1d2 Dex damage. Cure 2 consecutive save.
This is more potent than 3.5 poison, since multiple hits with this poison will increase the DC and duration quite a bit and you take 1d2 Dex damage every round for 6 rounds or until he saves twice (in two consecutive rounds).
Taking the quasit from above as an example, if your second level wizard is ambushed by a quasit and he gets two lucky hits with his claws, the wizard would (on the start of his turn) have to make a DC 15 Fort save to resist the poison and would have to do it for another 9 rounds or until he succeeds twice in a row, which is not that easy for a second level wizard.
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The Onset value is optional and normally not used for poisons but for other afflictions like disease. If you look at other poisons in the SRD, you will see that a usual poison would have something like:
Quasit Poison : injury: save Fort DC 13; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; Effect 1d2 Dex damage. Cure 2 consecutive save.
Thanks; I now see that a lot of poisons don't in fact have an onset time. I was trying too hard to base it round an upgraded oil of taggit (onset 1 minute, unconsciousness d3 hours).
The original 2E poison description was an odd one, in that it was both weaker than the 2E norm (delaying the save), yet stronger (two possible effects, one even on a successful save).
Sounds like it's a good idea to drop the onset time, change frequency to one extra save in 1d4 rounds, failure resulting in unconsciousness for 2 hours.
That allows for Dex damage from the first failed save, right?
Well you could go that route, but why not just let the dexterity damage do it's work, you can add a line that a creature reduced to dex 0 will result into unconciousness.
The poison stacks up by +2 for every bite attacks that hits ;
say the player got hit by 3 kakkuu he will need to save with a DC of 19 on his turn or take the dex damage, every hit also increases the potential duration of the poison by 50% (3 rounds in the example), so the player will have to save another 11 times or untill he succeeds twice in a row.
The way you plan to do it would inflict dex damage from the 1st failed save, then 1d4 rounds later it would have to save vs DC 15 +2*number of additional bites that hit or fall unconcious. Personally I think the unconciousness to be potentially too brutal, if they see their dex dropping down the players have a fair idea what is coming when it gets too low.
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So, here's the revised version of the first-stage kakkuu, with corrected hp, and revised poison effects. CR still nominally 4, but am willing to change that based on community consensus (my players always tell me I underestimate CR, but then, they would!).
CE Medium outsider (chaotic, evil, extraplanar, qlippoth)
Init +8, Senses Perception +5, darkvision 60’
Languages Abyssal, telepathy (touch)
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AC 15 (+4 Dex, +1 natural) touch 14, flat-footed 11
hp 26 (4d10+4)
DR 5/cold iron or lawful
Immune cold, mind-affecting, poison
Resist acid 10, electric 10, fire 10
Vulnerable
Fort +2, Ref +8, Will +4
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Spd 30 ft. climb 30 ft.
Melee bite+8 (d6+1+poison)
Ranged fishing lure +8 (60 ft ranged touch, pull 10 ft)
Base Atk +4; CMB +5 (+9 to pull), CMD 19 (23 vs bullrush or pull, 31 vs trip)
Special Atk Options horrific appearance (DC 12), poison (DC 15)
Spell-like abilities (CL 4) at will: darkness,
1/day: summon qlippoth
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Abilities Str 13, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 5, Wis 10, Cha 11
SQ
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
Skills (12) Acrobatics (Dex) +16, Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str) +13, Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex) +8, Fly (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha) +4, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (dung), Knowledge (eng), Knowledge (geog), Knowledge (hist), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (nobility), Knowledge (planes) +1, Knowledge (religion), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis) +5, Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis) +4, Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex) +11, Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Magic Device (Cha).
Equipment: none
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Environment any (Abyss)
Organization solitary or pack (2–12)
Treasure standard
The above stats include a +8 racial bonus to Acrobatics and Climb, plus a +2 racial bonus to the poison DC.
The fiends known as kakkuu (pronounced Kah-KOO) combine the worst aspects of a wolf and a spider. They have an arachnid body the size of a small pony, with a lupine head and neck growing from the front, where a spider’s eyes would be. The mouth is full of yellow, dog-like teeth, with an extra pair of spider fangs alongside the primary canines.
The head and neck are covered with matted, dirty fur. Under the grime, the fur is gray with lighter patches round the eyes and snout.
The body and legs are covered with sandy-brown stiff hairs, with occasional spots or stripes. The legs end in pads and claws that allow them to climb vertical surfaces.
Fishing Lure (Ex): The kakkuu can also create a glob of silk and glue the size of a fist. It perches over a trail or passage, dropping this, and swinging it like a pendulum. It is unable to throw the lure horizontally. Any creature along the path of the lure (a vertical line up to 60 ft long) may be snared. Treat this as a ranged touch attack with no range increment. A creature struck is stuck to the sticky thread. Test for the closest creature first, and once one creature is snared, the lure has no effect on creatures lower down. The kakkuu will ready an action to begin pulling the target once it feels it has been caught. The lure has a breaking strain of 1000 lb, though the kakkuu can only lift 500lb.
As a standard action, a creature can rip the filament free with a DC 15 Strength check. A caught creature can also attempt to escape a filament by making a DC 25 Escape Artist check. A filament is AC 14 (touch 12), has 5 hit points, and has DR 5/slashing. An application of liquid with high alcohol content (or a dose of universal solvent) dissolves the adhesive and releases the creature caught by the filament. A kakkuu can have only one filament active at a time.
Horrific Appearance (Su): A kakkuu may use a standard action to perform a threatening display. Creatures that succumb to a kakkuu’s horrific appearance become sickened for 1 round—a kakkuu’s horrific appearance only functions to a range of 10 feet. Once a creature makes a saving throw against a particular kakkuu’s horrific appearance, that creature is immune to the horrific appearance of other kakkuu for 24 hours.
Natural Coloring (Ex): A kakkuu in forest, jungle or undergrowth has a +4 bonus to Stealth checks.
Poison (Ex): Styxian Cramp bite-injury: save Fort DC 15, onset n/a; frequency 1d4 rounds; Initial Effect 1d3 Dex damage; Secondary Effect 1d3 Dex damage. Cure 1 save.
Silk (Ex): A kakkuu’s abdomen is equipped with spinnerets that can produce strands of silk. They do not spin webs, but can use this in various ways. Most often, they use the silk to suspend themselves above their prey, or to lay a network of strands through an area to allow movement in three dimensions. A kakkuu may throw a line up to 90 feet to bridge a gap.
The silk can also be used to tie up a poisoned enemy, taking 3 rounds to wrap a Medium creature. The trapped creature may attempt to escape by making an Escape Artist check (DC 13) or a Strength check of (DC 17).
Slow Fall (Ex): A kakkuu suffers no damage from falling if there is a surface within 90 feet that could be used as an anchor for their silk line.
Stability (Ex): Due to its extra legs, a kakkuu gains a +4 to CMB when attempting to pull a target, a +4 bonus to CMD vs bull rush or pull attempts, and a +12 bonus vs being tripped.
Summon Qlippoth (Sp): Once per day, a kakkuu can attempt to summon 1d3 fellow kakkuu, with a 35% chance of success.
Telepathy (Su): Kakkuu may communicate via primitive symbolism with any creature it touches. A kakkuu has a limited knowledge of Abyssal, communicating mostly through snarls, barks and howls.
TACTICS
Spyder-fiends prefer ambush to frontal attack. They typically lie in wait, dropping from above on a line of silk, or rushing from concealment.
As the least of the spyder-fiends, kakkuu are bloodthirsty and animalistic. As such, they are often driven ahead of their kin to draw the enemy from hiding.
HABITAT/SOCIETY
Spyder-fiends are the primary residents of The Steaming Fen, a layer of the Abyss that consists of a vast salt marsh and turbulent ocean. The marsh and ocean are studded with outcroppings of rock, some covered with jungle vegetation. The whole plane is dank and smells of decay. The air is thick with biting and stinging insects, and the ground and water seethe with vermin.
Spyder-fiends pay homage to a queen, who rules the plane. She sometimes sends her minions on errands across the multiverse, loaning them out to other qlippoth in the never-ending war against the tanar’ri and the daemons of Abaddon.
The more intelligent sub-races will sometimes travel the planes on errands of their own.
Spyder-fiends will eat any prey they can catch, preferably while the prey is still alive. The more powerful derive nourishment from their prey’s life-force and fear.
They have little to fear in their home layer of the Abyss, except each other.
Designers Notes: To establish the baseline ability scores, I referenced a Medium Giant Spider, on the assumption the kakkuu would be at least as proficient as its nearest comparative creature.
Strength was established by the carrying capacity set in TROSP, allowing for the quadruped bonus. Intelligence was set as 1 point higher than listed in TROSP, to reflect the differing scale of ability scores in 3E.
I chose the four bonus skills as Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist and Intimidate, to reflect its physical movement and horrific visage.
Hunting spider body gives +8 Acrobatics, Climb speed gives +8 climb.
Regular spider venom is at +2 DC from the expected norm, so kept that in.
Spiders CMD includes a +12 bonus vs trip (+4 per extra pair of legs?). That, too, would seem to be a good ability to include, plus a stability bonus vs bull rush.
I referenced the cave fisher for the lure rules, though I reduced the strength and DR of the line, to avoid completely stealing that creature’s schtick.
The ac is too low for a demon or a CR 4 creature, if you have bestiary 2 look at the crysmal it is a comparable CR 3 creature, with better AC and damage, comparable DR, immunities and resistances and spell abilities.
I would drop the summon ability to 1 kakkuu, 35% chance to get 1d3 kakkuu is a bit too random CR wise.
raise str to 15 at least this creature needs the 2 points extra damage
natural armor is abysmal for an outsider, get it up to +3 or +4, for an AC of 17 or 18 (more inline with the original kakkuu)
change poison to 4rounds/1d3 dex damage, cure 1 save.
honestly it is the only ability taking it from a CR 3 to CR 4, possibly.. still seems a bit weak, but it will do the trick.
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I'm thinking of increasing the natural armor to +3, reducing the summon ability to one kakkuu, and dropping the CR to 3.
Anyone think that CR too low?
My aim here is to set a baseline statblock for the least of the races; there are very few low-CR outsiders, and there are 4 further subraces to come, so I don't want to start too high that I paint myself into a corner when I get to them.
All five can always be bettered via class levels, as well, of course..
I wouldn't worry about that too much, originally the two most powerful spyderfiends were equal or stronger than pit fiends, so you got alot of room to play with.
I'd settle on CR 3, 6, 10, 13, 17 or something close to it, the most powerful of the species being roughly equal to mariliths in power.
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I've revisited the statblock, in line with various comments received, and after comparison to other low-CR outsiders. These resulted in a further +2 natural armor, +1 Str (and associated increases in CMB, CMD, bite damage and Climb), clarification of the poison onset rules, and correction of the hp (5.5/HD, not 5). I've added text to the slow fall ability to better describe how it works.
CE Medium outsider (chaotic, evil, extraplanar, qlippoth)
Init +8, Senses Perception +5, darkvision 60’
Languages Abyssal, telepathy (touch)
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AC 17 (+4 Dex, +3 natural) touch 14, flat-footed 13
hp 26 (4d10+4)
DR 5/cold iron or lawful
Immune cold, mind-affecting, poison
Resist acid 10, electric 10, fire 10
Vulnerable
Fort +2, Ref +8, Will +4
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Spd 30 ft. climb 30 ft.
Melee bite+8 (d6+3+poison)
Ranged fishing lure +8 (60 ft ranged touch, pull 10 ft)
Base Atk +4; CMB +6 (+10 to pull), CMD 20 (24 vs bullrush or pull, 32 vs trip)
Special Atk Options horrific appearance (DC 12), poison (DC 15)
Spell-like abilities (CL 4) at will: darkness,
1/day: summon qlippoth
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Abilities Str 14, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 5, Wis 10, Cha 11
SQ
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
Skills (12) Acrobatics (Dex) +16, Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str) +14, Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex) +8, Fly (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha) +4, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (dung), Knowledge (eng), Knowledge (geog), Knowledge (hist), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (nobility), Knowledge (planes) +1, Knowledge (religion), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis) +5, Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis) +4, Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex) +11, Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Magic Device (Cha).
Equipment: none
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Environment any (Abyss)
Organization solitary or pack (2–12)
Treasure standard
The above stats include a +8 racial bonus to Acrobatics and Climb, plus a +2 racial bonus to the poison DC.
The fiends known as kakkuu (pronounced Kah-KOO) combine the worst aspects of a wolf and a spider. They have an arachnid body the size of a small pony, with a lupine head and neck growing from the front, where a spider’s eyes would be. The mouth is full of yellow, dog-like teeth, with an extra pair of spider fangs alongside the primary canines.
The head and neck are covered with matted, dirty fur. Under the grime, the fur is gray with lighter patches round the eyes and snout.
The body and legs are covered with sandy-brown stiff hairs, with occasional spots or stripes. The legs end in pads and claws that allow them to climb vertical surfaces.
Fishing Lure (Ex): The kakkuu can also create a glob of silk and glue the size of a fist. It perches over a trail or passage, dropping this, and swinging it like a pendulum. It is unable to throw the lure horizontally. Any creature along the path of the lure (a vertical line up to 60 ft long) may be snared. Treat this as a ranged touch attack with no range increment. A creature struck is stuck to the sticky thread. Test for the closest creature first, and once one creature is snared, the lure has no effect on creatures lower down. The kakkuu will ready an action to begin pulling the target once it feels it has been caught. The lure has a breaking strain of 1000 lb, though the kakkuu can only lift 500lb.
As a standard action, a creature can rip the filament free with a DC 15 Strength check. A caught creature can also attempt to escape a filament by making a DC 25 Escape Artist check. A filament is AC 14 (touch 12), has 5 hit points, and has DR 5/slashing. An application of liquid with high alcohol content (or a dose of universal solvent) dissolves the adhesive and releases the creature caught by the filament. A kakkuu can have only one filament active at a time.
Horrific Appearance (Su): A kakkuu may use a standard action to perform a threatening display. Creatures that succumb to a kakkuu’s horrific appearance become sickened for 1 round—a kakkuu’s horrific appearance only functions to a range of 10 feet. Once a creature makes a saving throw against a particular kakkuu’s horrific appearance, that creature is immune to the horrific appearance of other kakkuu for 24 hours.
Natural Coloring (Ex): A kakkuu in forest, jungle or undergrowth has a +4 bonus to Stealth checks.
Poison (Ex): Styxian Cramp bite-injury: save Fort DC 15, onset n/a; frequency 1d4 rounds; Initial Effect 1d3 Dex damage; Secondary Effect 1d3 Dex damage. Cure 1 save.
Silk (Ex): A kakkuu’s abdomen is equipped with spinnerets that can produce strands of silk. They do not spin webs, but can use this in various ways. Most often, they use the silk to suspend themselves above their prey, or to lay a network of strands through an area to allow movement in three dimensions. A kakkuu may throw a line up to 90 feet to bridge a gap.
The silk can also be used to tie up a poisoned enemy, taking 3 rounds to wrap a Medium creature. The trapped creature may attempt to escape by making an Escape Artist check (DC 13) or a Strength check of (DC 17).
Slow Fall (Ex): A kakkuu suffers no damage from falling if there is a surface within 90 feet that could be used as an anchor for their silk line. Using this ability is an immediate action, and requires that its spinnerets are free. If the kakkuu is not already anchored to a fixed point, while using its spinnerets, such as pulling a victim by its lure, it must snip the lure free, before firing off a new line. Snipping the lure is a free action, included as part of the same immediate action. The GM is the arbiter of where the kakkuu swings to, dependent on the terrain.
Stability (Ex): Due to its extra legs, a kakkuu gains a +4 to CMB when attempting to pull a target, a +4 bonus to CMD vs bull rush or pull attempts, and a +12 bonus vs being tripped.
Summon Qlippoth (Sp): Once per day, a kakkuu can attempt to summon 1d3 fellow kakkuu, with a 35% chance of success.
Telepathy (Su): Kakkuu may communicate via primitive symbolism with any creature it touches. A kakkuu has a limited knowledge of Abyssal, communicating mostly through snarls, barks and howls.
TACTICS
Spyder-fiends prefer ambush to frontal attack. They typically lie in wait, dropping from above on a line of silk, or rushing from concealment.
As the least of the spyder-fiends, kakkuu are bloodthirsty and animalistic. As such, they are often driven ahead of their kin to draw the enemy from hiding.
HABITAT/SOCIETY
Spyder-fiends are the primary residents of The Steaming Fen, a layer of the Abyss that consists of a vast salt marsh and turbulent ocean. The marsh and ocean are studded with outcroppings of rock, some covered with jungle vegetation. The whole plane is dank and smells of decay. The air is thick with biting and stinging insects, and the ground and water seethe with vermin.
Spyder-fiends pay homage to a queen, who rules the plane. She sometimes sends her minions on errands across the multiverse, loaning them out to other qlippoth in the never-ending war against the tanar’ri and the daemons of Abaddon.
The more intelligent sub-races will sometimes travel the planes on errands of their own.
Spyder-fiends will eat any prey they can catch, preferably while the prey is still alive. The more powerful derive nourishment from their prey’s life-force and fear.
They have little to fear in their home layer of the Abyss, except each other.
How do we summon the Pathfinderdatabasepimp?
May as well get this considered for the fan-content pages.
If any of the above posters want credit, let me know what form to put it, or I'll just quote your screen names.
Great job on the statblock, looks nice and tidy, I don't need credit the spotlight hurts my eyes, just really enjoyed this adventure back in the day, I would like to help with other conversions as well :)
The poison bugs me a bit still, it is not that it is too weak or overpowered, but the 1d4 frequency seems a bother to keep track off, especially since the kakkuu often come in packs. Wouldn't it be better to give it a frequency of 1/round for 4 rounds ?
This might make it slightly more powerful, you could gimp the dex 2 points and increase natural armor by 1 to decrease initiative and AB a bit.
Either way it is good, just the poison tracking seems a bit bothersome if they come in numbers.
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The poison bugs me a bit still, it is not that it is too weak or overpowered, but the 1d4 frequency seems a bother to keep track off, especially since the kakkuu often come in packs. Wouldn't it be better to give it a frequency of 1/round for 4 rounds ?
That's a remnant of trying to model the original delayed action from the 2E stats. I can see how it would be hell to keep track of if there was a pack of them, and it probably isn't necessary these days. Poison's gone from being 'fail one save-you're out of the game' to an inconvenience, and more classes have access to delay poison, remove poison, and restoration effects that it doesn't matter if they take saves in quick succession. Consider it done.
Great job on the statblock, looks nice and tidy, I don't need credit the spotlight hurts my eyes, just really enjoyed this adventure back in the day, I would like to help with other conversions as well :)
No worries, I thought it best to offer some recognition, and have it not be needed, than to pretend I did it all myself and be called on it.
If we feel we've nailed the base 'goon' version, it's much easier to build the next four advanced subtypes. I'll get to work on the spithriku asap.
Obviously, any of my players keep out.
** spoiler omitted **...
Dammit Snorter - that's what your alter-ego is for! Don't worry, I've not looked at this thread :-)
Honest!
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I've made further adjustments, to revise the DCs of the escape checks, to compare with the current Escape artist rules for escaping bonds, and the tanglefoot bag for tearing off the fishing lure. All the spider-silk tricks have then been gathered under one heading, for clarity.
CE Medium outsider (chaotic, evil, extraplanar, qlippoth)
Init +8, Senses Perception +5, darkvision 60’
Languages Abyssal, telepathy (touch)
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AC 17 (+4 Dex, +3 natural) touch 14, flat-footed 13
hp 26 (4d10+4)
DR 5/cold iron or lawful
Immune cold, mind-affecting, poison
Resist acid 10, electric 10, fire 10
Vulnerable
Fort +2, Ref +8, Will +4
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Spd 30 ft. climb 30 ft.
Melee bite+8 (d6+3+poison)
Ranged fishing lure +8 (60 ft ranged touch, pull 10 ft)
Base Atk +4; CMB +6 (+10 to pull), CMD 20 (24 vs bullrush or pull, 32 vs trip)
Special Atk Options horrific appearance (DC 12), poison (DC 15)
Spell-like abilities (CL 4) at will: darkness,
1/day: summon qlippoth
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Abilities Str 14, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 5, Wis 10, Cha 11
SQ
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
Skills (12) Acrobatics (Dex) +16, Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str) +14, Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex) +8, Fly (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha) +4, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (dung), Knowledge (eng), Knowledge (geog), Knowledge (hist), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (nobility), Knowledge (planes) +1, Knowledge (religion), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis) +5, Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis) +4, Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex) +11, Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Magic Device (Cha).
Equipment: none
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Environment any (Abyss)
Organization solitary or pack (2–12)
Treasure standard
The above stats include a +8 racial bonus to Acrobatics and Climb, plus a +2 racial bonus to the poison DC.
The fiends known as kakkuu (pronounced Kah-KOO) combine the worst aspects of a wolf and a spider. They have an arachnid body the size of a small pony, with a lupine head and neck growing from the front, where a spider’s eyes would be. The mouth is full of yellow, dog-like teeth, with an extra pair of spider fangs alongside the primary canines.
The head and neck are covered with matted, dirty fur. Under the grime, the fur is gray with lighter patches round the eyes and snout.
The body and legs are covered with sandy-brown stiff hairs, with occasional spots or stripes. The legs end in pads and claws that allow them to climb vertical surfaces.
Horrific Appearance (Su): A kakkuu may use a standard action to perform a threatening display. Creatures that succumb to a kakkuu’s horrific appearance become sickened for 1 round—a kakkuu’s horrific appearance only functions to a range of 10 feet. Once a creature makes a saving throw against a particular kakkuu’s horrific appearance, that creature is immune to the horrific appearance of other kakkuu for 24 hours. This is treated as a mind-affecting gaze attack.
Natural Coloring (Ex): A kakkuu in forest, jungle or undergrowth has a +4 bonus to Stealth checks.
Poison (Ex): Styxian Cramp bite-injury: save Fort DC 15, onset n/a; frequency 1/round for 4 rounds; Initial Effect 1d3 Dex damage; Secondary Effect 1d3 Dex damage. Cure 1 save.
Silk (Ex): A kakkuu’s abdomen is equipped with spinnerets that can produce strands of silk. They do not spin webs, but can use this for a variety of tools.
Capture: The silk can also be used to tie up a helpless enemy, taking 3 rounds to wrap a Medium creature. The trapped creature may attempt to escape by making an Escape Artist check (DC 26) or a Strength check (DC 26).
Fishing Lure: The kakkuu can also create a glob of silk and glue the size of a fist. It perches over a trail or passage, dropping this, and swinging it like a pendulum. It is unable to throw the lure horizontally. Any creature along the path of the lure (a vertical line up to 60 ft long) may be snared. Treat this as a ranged touch attack with no range increment. A creature struck is stuck to the sticky thread. Test for the closest creature first, and once one creature is snared, the lure has no effect on creatures lower down. The kakkuu will ready an action to begin pulling the target once it feels it has been caught. The lure has a breaking strain of 1000 lb, though the kakkuu can only lift 500lb. As a standard action, a creature can rip the filament free with a DC 13 Strength check. A caught creature can also attempt to escape a filament by making a DC 16 Escape Artist check. A filament is AC 14 (touch 12), has 5 hit points, and has DR 5/slashing. An application of liquid with high alcohol content (or a dose of universal solvent) dissolves the adhesive and releases the creature caught by the filament. A kakkuu can have only one filament active at a time.
Movement: They may use the silk to suspend themselves above their prey, and to lay a network of strands through an area to allow movement in three dimensions. A kakkuu may throw a line up to 90 feet to bridge a gap.
Slow Fall: A kakkuu suffers no damage from falling if there is a surface within 90 feet that could be used as an anchor for their silk line. Using this ability is an immediate action, and requires that its spinnerets are free. If the kakkuu is not already anchored to a fixed point, while using its spinnerets, such as pulling a victim by its lure, it must snip the lure free, before firing off a new line. Snipping the lure is a free action, included as part of the same immediate action. The GM is the arbiter of where the kakkuu swings to, dependent on the terrain.
Stability (Ex): Due to its extra legs, a kakkuu gains a +4 to CMB when attempting to pull a target, a +4 bonus to CMD vs bull rush or pull attempts, and a +12 bonus vs being tripped.
Summon Qlippoth (Sp): Once per day, a kakkuu can attempt to summon 1 kakkuu, with a 35% chance of success.
Telepathy (Su): Kakkuu may communicate via primitive symbolism with any creature it touches. A kakkuu has a limited knowledge of Abyssal, communicating mostly through snarls, barks and howls.
TACTICS
Spyder-fiends prefer ambush to frontal attack. They typically lie in wait, dropping from above on a line of silk, or rushing from concealment.
As the least of the spyder-fiends, kakkuu are bloodthirsty and animalistic. As such, they are often driven ahead of their kin to draw the enemy from hiding.
HABITAT/SOCIETY
Spyder-fiends are the primary residents of The Steaming Fen, a layer of the Abyss that consists of a vast salt marsh and turbulent ocean. The marsh and ocean are studded with outcroppings of rock, some covered with jungle vegetation. The whole plane is dank and smells of decay. The air is thick with biting and stinging insects, and the ground and water seethe with vermin.
Spyder-fiends pay homage to a queen, who rules the plane. She sometimes sends her minions on errands across the multiverse, loaning them out to other qlippoth in the never-ending war against the tanar’ri and the daemons of Abaddon.
The more intelligent sub-races will sometimes travel the planes on errands of their own.
Spyder-fiends will eat any prey they can catch, preferably while the prey is still alive. The more powerful derive nourishment from their prey’s life-force and fear.
They have little to fear in their home layer of the Abyss, except each other.