Wild Shape


Rules Questions

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Mathew, at least everything exists in tidy lists now, even if they are a bit scattered. In v3.5, it was much less clear as to which abilities you maintained and which were altered.


Calybos1 wrote:

OK, here's my starting assumption: When a druid Wildshapes into an animal, you put aside your character sheet, open up the Bestiary, and play the animal as listed. Any departures from that require explanation.

So, step-by-step, what differences and changes occur? Does anyone know of a good guide or resource for how to do this?

There is an excel sheet made by a poster on this site that helps you with this.

Link to the sheet


Calybos1 wrote:

OK, here's my starting assumption: When a druid Wildshapes into an animal, you put aside your character sheet, open up the Bestiary, and play the animal as listed. Any departures from that require explanation.

So, step-by-step, what differences and changes occur? Does anyone know of a good guide or resource for how to do this?

Bad assumption, it's completely incorrect. That's how it worked in 3.5, but not anymore.

Calybos1 wrote:

My druid has now reached the level to permit Wild Shape, and it's so confusing and vague that I'm tempted to simply ignore the ability and stick with spellcasting while my animal companion does all the fighting.

Are you seriously telling me that a Str 10 druid who shifts into frackin' grizzly bear still has only Str 10 (or maybe 12 per the Beast Shape +2 bonus)? What if the animal form has a higher base Cha or Wis than I do? Are my skill checks modified by the changing stats?

What happens if you shift into a larger/smaller creature--do you get size penalties to things like AC and CMB? Do you gain reach in the larger form?

And what about the animal's own skills and feats? Bestiary critters have all sorts of Perception bonuses, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, etc., etc... where do these go? and likewise, do your humanoid-form feats carry over to your animal shape? what good is a Swim speed if you can't breathe water, even though you're in fish shape?

How on earth are secondary attacks supposed to work in the first place? I read that they're supposed to have a -5 to hit; does that stack with the multi-attack rule for high BAB (main attack at full, secondary at -5), or are they mutually exclusive?

Some examples would have been a HUGE help, Paizo--in particular a before-and-after stat block for the druid in both forms. I'm flat-out lost.

Yes, we are telling you that your 10 strength druid carries over that 10 strength as their base for that next form. Ignoring that Beast Shape 1 doesn't let you turn into a large creature, lets pretend your character is 6th level and Wild Shape now works as Beast Shape 2 which would allow you to turn into a Bear.

Beast Shape 2 tells you:

Quote:
Large animal: If the form you take is that of a Large animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +4 natural armor bonus.
Quote:
If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 60 feet, fly 60 feet (good maneuverability), swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, grab, pounce, and trip.

So you would only get the special abilities listed if the form you shift into has those. If you shifted into something that had a 90ft fly speed, you would still only get 60ft. If that form had poor maneuverability you would get that instead of good. You also only get a +4 size bonus to strength. So you would only end up at 14 strength, unless I've forgotten something else.

Wildshape doesn't affect your mental stats at all so you do not get their Wisdom or Charisma or anything like that. The enhancement to strength and penalties to dex would apply to the appropriate skills as normal.

You do not get the animals skills or feats. You keep yours.

Polymorph rules say

Quote:
If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing.

So if you gain a swim speed you can breathe under water.

This was done intentionally to get rid of CodZilla.

Liberty's Edge

Matthew Downie wrote:
I don't think it's as clear as it could be. To fully understand Wild Shape you have to look at: The Wild Shape rules. The Beast Shape rules. The general polymorph rules. The rules for the effect of size on combat performance. The list of which attacks are 'secondary', at the back of the Bestiary. And all of the animals in all the Bestiaries to pick the best one for the current situation. And you have to recalculate all your stats for your new form and for the equipment which has melded with your body, some of which functions normally and some of which does nothing, plus any equipment you put on after changing shape.

Wildshape certainly requires you to commit to fully understanding it, of that there is no doubt! And you do need to be willing to do some recalculating and record keeping in order to do it right. Once it clicks in your mind though, it becomes almost second nature :)

One of the many tracking sheets I created for the New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press was a Wildshape tracking sheet for that very reason.

It's a one page, customized character sheet designed to be used when you wildshape. You do one for each shape you normally like to assume and then do all the recalculating and modifying right on the sheet. When you change into a tiger, for instance, you just pull out your 'tiger' sheet and you're ready to go!


Codzilla?

Ill ask here too, since its specific wildshape.
Is there any items, spells feats eetc that allow manifestation of attacks ppoarts, or sense parts?
I saw a mythic version but im not sure if there is outside od it


In addition, I'm now told that none of my magic items will work in Wildshape form--including the magic armor I sweated and saved for.

Very aggravating! This thing has so many moving parts, so many fiddly little details and exceptions... I really wish there was a guide or resource that put all these details together in a single place.

As it is, I'm strongly considering just dropping it and putting Wildshape in the trash can next to summoning spells, filed under Not Worth the Trouble.


Calybos1 wrote:

In addition, I'm now told that none of my magic items will work in Wildshape form--including the magic armor I sweated and saved for.

Very aggravating! This thing has so many moving parts, so many fiddly little details and exceptions... I really wish there was a guide or resource that put all these details together in a single place.

As it is, I'm strongly considering just dropping it and putting Wildshape in the trash can next to summoning spells, filed under Not Worth the Trouble.

As for Magic items.

Every "permanent" magic items works while in wild shape, except weapons, armor and shield. Examples of permanent magic items include amulet of natural amor, ring of protection, belt of strength, amulet of mighty fists, ...

Wild Armors and shield works while in wild shape.

You can't activate a magic item you had prior to the wild shape while morphed : so no consumable, no boots of speed, or any other magic items that you have to activate to use.


Zwordsman wrote:

Codzilla?

Ill ask here too, since its specific wildshape.
Is there any items, spells feats eetc that allow manifestation of attacks ppoarts, or sense parts?
I saw a mythic version but im not sure if there is outside od it

CodZilla was a mash-up of the Cleric or Druid and Godzilla. Because of how Wild Shape worked in 3.5 a druid could tank all their physical stats and start with 20 wisdom and 18 int and then wildshape which directly replaced their physical stats. This was a terrible design which lead to characters with incredibly melee capability while wildshaped while not having to sacrifice their casting abilities.

I forget what the cleric build was exactly, but I'm thinking it involved Tenser's Transformation and other long duration buffs that made the cleric better at melee (all day) than any martial class.

You armor will not apply unless you get the special Wild quality on the armor (for extra cost). Magic items do not function unless they provide a continuous benefit.


the cleric was divine power = full BAB + haste from other sources (stacked) + righteous might

also, there was a feat once (thank god more! ) called persist spell that made divine favor a 24 hr spell.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Heh, I remember reading a 3.5 thread once where someone asked "How do I build CoDzilla?" and the answer was "Print a fresh character sheet. Now, under class, write "Cleric" or "Druid." You're done! CoDzilla built!"

While there were build choices you could make that really really broke them, the core cleric or druid could be super powerful if played correctly even with very suboptimal build choices.


Our Wildshape FAQ. Feel free to critique.

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