I recently picked up this trilogy of books, The Darkness That Comes Before, The Warrior Prophet, and The Thousandfold Thought, used at Half Price Books. I liked what I read when skimming the pages as well as the synopsis on the back covers. Have anyone else read these? Thoughts?
I recently picked up this trilogy of books, The Darkness That Comes Before, The Warrior Prophet, and The Thousandfold Thought, used at Half Price Books. I liked what I read when skimming the pages as well as the synopsis on the back covers. Have anyone else read these? Thoughts?
I've read them all and I love the world that Bakker has created. I am now eagerly awaiting the second book of the second trilogy.
It's really good stuff, I think when you've read all of it you'll agree.
I've got more thoughts on the subject ofcourse, but I don't want to spoil the books for you......
Tiny spoiler
The first hundred pages I was like wtf?? Bakker's world is just so different and the fact that K can 'read' faces was so different and so unlike standard fantasy that it was almost difficult to get into the book. I think this was done intentionally by Bakker to show how 'alien' K truely is compared to the other characters you will meet throughout the books.
Anyway I love the scylvendi.
For me it's one of the best fantasy series in the last ten years, the first two books were enjoyable, in the third book one character becomes a bit annoying, and the fourth books needs more story, it's like an interlude.
It has a lot of philosophy and the world is mysterious, original and dark, yet it has some parallels with Earth so you can relate.
Agree with Darkjoy's spoiler.
Note that I did not like Numeria in Golarion, and the novels made me change my mind.
The first books are different and they stand out from other contemporary fantasy. The are interesting , and i don't think you will regret reading them.
For me it's one of the best fantasy series in the last ten years, the first two books were enjoyable, in the third book one character becomes a bit annoying, and the fourth books needs more story, it's like an interlude.
It has a lot of philosophy and the world is mysterious, original and dark, yet it has some parallels with Earth so you can relate.
Agree with Darkjoy's spoiler.
Note that I did not like Numeria in Golarion, and the novels made me change my mind.
Isn't the fourth book technically the beginning of a new trilogy? I just want to make sure I didn't miss a book in-between.
The fact that the author was just shy of getting a PhD in philosophy also appealed to me. I was hesitant at first because I've gotten so burned out on the typical apocalyptic/savior style genres that glut the market.
I find it ironic that you did not like Numeria in Golarion [at first] ... given your alias. =)
Isn't the fourth book technically the beginning of a new trilogy? I just want to make sure I didn't miss a book in-between.
Yes it is. Finish the three that you have and you'll be all set to read the first two of the new trilogy.
The series overall is called THE SECOND APOCALYPSE and is divided into three sub-series, THE PRINCE OF NOTHING, THE ASPECT-EMPEROR and a series-as-yet-unnamed.
THE PRINCE OF NOTHING consists of THE DARKNESS THAT COMES BEFORE (2003), THE WARRIOR-PROPHET (2005) and THE THOUSANDFOLD THOUGHT (2006).
THE ASPECT-EMPEROR consists of THE JUDGING EYE (2009) and the soon-to-be-released THE WHITE LUCK WARRIOR (March 2011). The trilogy will be rounded off by THE UNHOLY CONSULT, which Bakker is already writing and hoping to release by late 2012.
The third series will be either a duology or triloy and will conclude the overall storyline.
Bakker has written two stand-alone thrillers, NEUROPATH (2008) and DISCIPLE OF THE DOG (2010). The latter is intended to be the first in a recurring series, DISCIPLE MANNING, but Bakker has put his non-SA work on hold until he finishes the fantasy books.
His fantasy work is dark, grim and adult. He makes George R.R. Martin look like David Eddings on occasion. He can go a bit OTT on occasion but generally speaking he's one of the best epic fantasy writers around today.
I have a review of THE WHITE LUCK WARRIOR, the second book of THE ASPECT-EMPEROR (and the fifth of the overall series) here. I won't quote it as it has some minor spoilers for those who have not read the first four books yet.
Damn Wert, how did you get the book so soon. The storyline is exactly what I was hoping for. Judging Eye was a let down, I can't even remember what that thing is.
The actual Judging Eye is explained better in the 'story so far' bit in TWLW than in the actual novel of TJE itself.
The book's also been out in Canada for weeks, but I got an advance copy from the UK publishers.
I agree with all the recommendations so far, for the reasons already stated. I'll add that the world of Earwa is fascinating, and more detailed than any other setting I've ever come across, save perhaps Tolkien's. I mean, I can stare at the map of Earwa for hours, wondering what's out there. If you're a setting-junkie like me, you'll love it, and especially appreciate the comprehensive glossary at the back of The Thousandfold Thought.
Also, since you're posting the question on this board, I've heard that the books are based off of an AD&D campaign that Bakker ran back in the day. While it doesn't necessarily make the books better, I appreciate the fact.
There's an new interview with Bakker, reveals new information about the world, possible spoiler even if you've read The White-Luck Warrior.
link.
So were the first Inchoroi damned? The interview is more interesting than the book.
So were the first Inchoroi damned? The interview is more interesting than the book.
The Inchoroi are Other in the world of Earwa. Since in Earwa the world is defined by Belief, the Inchoroi automatically became damned because they are demonic alien forces who rape and destroy for pleasure, and also simply because they are different. This is why the Inchoroi want to wipe out humanity: since human belief defines reality on the planet, the Inchoroi are doomed to hell unless they can wipe out the mass of humanity. Then the Inchoroi and their minions become the dominant force in the world and can shape it through their belief instead (or so I gather).
Essentially Bakker had to come up with a rationale as to why the bad guys in epic fantasy want to 'destroy the world' for the sake of it, and came up with this idea :)
I meant those of the Inchoroi who died in space, who defines reality there?
I don't know, it's confusing. Maybe there are crystal spheres like in Spelljammer. Don't the majority of people believe the Cishaurim are damned like all sorcerers, yet they aren't. Or the number of sranc seems far greater than human, I guess they can't express belief.
Necrothread! I am reading an ARC of the third book in the second series (which is now called THE GREAT ORDEAL, as it got too big and had to be split in half) and it reminded me of this thread, and a few questions I forgot last time around.
I meant those of the Inchoroi who died in space, who defines reality there?
How the metaphysics work beyond Earwa is unknown. The implication from THE WHITE-LUCK WARRIOR was that each world has its own belief/afterlife structure and system.
Don't the majority of people believe the Cishaurim are damned like all sorcerers, yet they aren't.
I think the previous books also provided an explanation for this as well (no spoilers from THE GREAT ORDEAL, just the earlier books):
Or the number of sranc seems far greater than human, I guess they can't express belief.
The previous books imply that the sranc are not capable of human thought and thus belief in the same way.
Very minor spoiler from THE GREAT ORDEAL:
The Aspect-Emperor Book 3: The Great Ordeal
The Great Ordeal marches onwards under the leadership of its Aspect-Emperor, Anasurimbor Kellhus. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers, drawn from all corners of the Three Seas, and hundreds of sorcerers haven been assembled in the greatest army to march for thousands of years. Its goal: to cross the vast, sranc-infested northern plains and reach fell Golgotterath, the resting place of the Ark of the Heavens. There the Ordeal will destroy the dreaded, unholy Consult and prevent the second coming of the No-God and the onset of the Second Apocalypse.
As the Ordeal marches, the New Empire Kellhus established to build it teeters on the brink of ruin. The fanatical Fanim have besieged the imperial capital at Momemn, but Empress Esmenet is distracted by the plight of her disturbed children. Sorweel, the Believer-King of Sakarpus, has been sent with Kellhus's daughter Serwa to establish an alliance with Ishterebinth, the last extant stronghold of the mighty Nonmen, but he is unprepared for what awaits him there. And in the Mountains of Demua, the wizard Drusus Achamian and Esmenet's daughter Mimara have located Ishual, the stronghold of the Dunyain and the birthplace of Kellhus. There Achamian hopes to find the information he needs to expose Kellhus as a fraud and determine whether he leads humanity to salvation or damnation.
The Great Ordeal is the third and penultimate volume of The Aspect-Emperor, itself the second of three great movements in a larger, over-arching series called The Second Apocalypse. If you are invested already in this series, then this is the easiest review in history: The Great Ordeal is a stunning addition to the series, go and buy it as soon as it is available. For those who remain unconvinced, it's rather unlikely this book will do anything to change your minds.
The Great Ordeal is ultimately a novel of change and revelation. The Great Ordeal and its participants have been tested before, but never as they are in this book. Dark horrors - psychological and physical - await the characters as fresh revelations about the Dunyain, the Nonmen, the Hundred Gods, the Judging Eye, the Logos, the nature of the No-God and Kellhus's own designs are made. Characters grapple with decisions: in the dark shadow of the looming confrontation with Golgotterath there seems to be little hope of salvation, only survival, and a path of least harm may be the best that can be hoped for. It is a dark novel where characters struggle against the fact that some of them are only chess pieces in a grander design set by the gods, the Consult or the Aspect-Emperor, but some of them also discover new ways of gaining agency and thwarting the grand designs that seek to enslave them.
As with previous Bakker novels, the novel mixes political intrigue with religious musings with philosophical insights with scenes of horror and warfare, the author moving smoothly between such elements with a skill and ease of prose that grows more enviable with each volume. There is also a formidable display of imagination, with new worldbuilding concepts and ideas being introduced into the narrative with assured confidence and ease. Characterisation is, as usual, very strong and Bakker seems to tacitly acknowledge the criticisms he has had in the past with a very limited roster of female characters by increasing the amount of screentime for Serwa, Kellhus's daughter and the most intriguing of the new generation of characters. Mimara's importance also increases dramatically in this volume, as it begins to appear that her Judging Eye may hold the ultimate answer to the questions so many characters hold about the Consult and Kellhus himself. The metaphysics of Earwa which seem to hold - on this world anyway - women as an inferior sex are also better explained and shown to be the fault of men and religious dogma (rather than some kind of deep-seated authorial problem) more explicitly than before.
The book is deeply concerned with such metaphysics and Bakker is forced to engage with longer musings on the nature of reality, damnation and salvation. These ideas are key to the storyline and plot of the novel, but are also complex and could risk slowing down the pace of the novel. However, Bakker keeps things moving briskly and (mostly) avoids getting bogged down in philosophy at the expense of the main narrative drive.
The Great Ordeal was originally the first half of a much longer book that had to be split for publication. The risk here was that it may only feel like half a novel, but this is not the case at all. Events are set in motion at the start of the book which culminate in the caverns of Ishterebinth, in the forests of Kuniuri, on the streets of Momemn and, most spectacularly, on the summit of Dagliash. This multi-stranded finale is epic and breathtaking, among the greatest convergences in modern epic fantasy, and the notion it was originally supposed to be a mid-novel climax makes you wonder what exactly Bakker is holding back for the second half. The problem with this climax is that only a couple of strands are firmly resolved, with the rest ending on a series of absolutely titanic cliffhangers (as in, Dance with Dragons levels of cliffhangers or greater).
For those who find Bakker's vision too bleak, his world too grim and his imagination too strewn with horror, The Great Ordeal will do little to reassure them. Occasionally the darkness gets a little too oppressive and the deployment of (mostly implied and off-screen) sexual violence (mostly by men against other men) risks feeling rote, but it does start to feel like there is a method in the madness of Earwa, and the first inklings that some may harbour ambitions to deliver the world not just from the Consult but from the actual darkness it is trapped in beyond that. Whether that is a deliverance to a better existence or something even more appalling remains to be seen.
The Great Ordeal (****½) fairly seethes with intelligence, action and revelation and is a worthwhile continuation of the smartest epic fantasy of our generation. It is also grim and challenging in a manner that won't do much to resolve Bakker's reputation as the most divisive author in modern fantasy. The novel will be published on 5 July 2016 in the United States and on 29 September 2016 in the United Kingdom. The Aspect-Emperor series will conclude with The Unholy Consult, which is already complete and will be published in early-to-mid 2017.
First part of A Story So Far for the previous books in the series. Scott was kind enough to provide some exclusive new info for this article.
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I read the first one. I forced myself to finish it, even though I came to hate every page of it, because I thought maybe it wasn't going where I thought it was going.
But nope. It was exactly as bad as I thought.
The setup of Bakker's universe is that women are inherently "spiritually inferior" to men (and men, of course, are more or less all inherent rapists--the best women can hope for is to charm a man enough that he represses his natural and apparently justified desire to hurt, violate, and even kill us and that he is strong enough to protect us from other men). Female characters all get raped because, well, they're just weak. Some of them come to sorta like it.
Bakker's been pretty gross in person about it, too. For a while, there, he was showing up to pretty much any internet discussion about his books and claiming that anyone who didn't see that his books were actually feminist was just too stupid to read them "correctly." Then he backtracked and claimed it had all been a big "social experiment." Then he went with "well, I wrote them for men to enjoy, not women, so it doesn't really matter what women thing about them."
So yeah. He wrote a cliched fantasy that is especially cliched--violently, hatefully so--in its treatment of women, and instead of evolving when criticized on it (see, for example, the Red Rising trilogy, which started off unintentionally awful toward its female characters, but the author actually listened when people pointed that out, and improved in subsequent books), or even just acknowledging that he spilled his id all over his pages (like John Ringo did) he came up with strained justification after strained justification for why it was right of him to do so.
I remember a friend of mine had the great misfortune of having one of these. The more he told me about it the more it seemed derivative and incredibly hokey. I have not read them, and do not plan to, but Jessica's post above does not surprise me.
The setup of Bakker's universe is actually the same as in many fantasy settings: that the belief of the population is responsible for the shaping of reality. And the population of an inherently male-dominated, late Bronze Age-style setting is going to be unsurprisingly misogynistic.
This actually dramatically changes in the books. As a result of the arising of Kellhus, women are given more power and more responsibility and his daughter founds a sorcerous school and becomes a key power in the world. There's also the fact that the only one of the Hundred Gods to really make a stand against Kellhus is the Goddess of Fertility, Yatwer, which results in a shift in the viewpoint of women on the opposing side. The second series has a much larger cast of female characters with volition and agency (the central protagonist of the second series, Mimara, is also female and a prime mover of the storyline). Later developments also recast some of the events of the first trilogy (most notably the impact of Serwe, a minor character treated very much like a victim in the first two books) in a different light.
But yeah, the underlying and opening metaphysics of the world are disturbing (right across the board, not just in this area). This series is very much not for everyone and Scott's online argumentative style is extremely unhelpful.
Female characters all get raped because, well, they're just weak. Some of them come to sorta like it.
This, on the other hand, is a significant misrepresentation of the series. I don't think this happens (the "liking it" part), ever, and the overwhelming majority of the victims of sexual violence in the books are men.
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<boring and strained "justifications" for Bakker's choices>
Doesn't matter. He chose to write the series he wrote. There was nothing requiring him to do so.
Hell, even Game of Thrones portrays its misogynistic culture as a bad thing, and creates female characters whose equal talent and intelligence to that of the men around them is manifestly obvious.
Bakker's just an ardent misogynist. There's no excuse.
Female characters all get raped because, well, they're just weak. Some of them come to sorta like it.This, on the other hand, is a significant misrepresentation of the series. I don't think this happens (the "liking it" part), ever, and the overwhelming majority of the victims of sexual violence in the books are men.
Nice try at a derailment, but no.
There are more male victims of sexual assault in the book because the ratio of male to female characters is about 30:1. The fact that more male characters than female characters are victims doesn't change the fact that it's a fraction of the male characters versus all of the female characters.
Esmenet is sexually assaulted and is described as enjoying it.
Moreover, most of the rape scenes are pornographically, rather than horrifically, described. The author was clearly enjoying writing them, and seemed to be attempting to make them enjoyable to the reader.
Also a choice for which there is no excuse.
Doesn't matter. He chose to write the series he wrote. There was nothing requiring him to do so.
All art is the choice of the creator, and in Bakker's case it is simply inarguable that the story he is telling is dark, deeply disturbing and chooses to confront issues which epic fantasy typically does not. It is also inarguable that some of his storytelling techniques and choices are massively problematic on all manner of levels.
I also reject the notion - taken by some other fans of the series - that you need to read all of it to take on board all of the issues. The fact that the later books repudiate quite strongly some of the issues raised in the first three is of no value if those issues make it impossible to get through the first book and into the series as a whole.
Hell, even Game of Thrones portrays its misogynistic culture as a bad thing
And The Second Apocalypse very much portrays its misogynistic culture as an incredibly bad, self-defeating and self-destructive thing that needs to change.
The difference, of course, is that Martin puts it up front in Book 1. Bakker holds back on it for most of the first trilogy, which was certainly a major error of storytelling.
There are more male victims of sexual assault in the book because the ratio of male to female characters is about 30:1. The fact that more male characters than female characters are victims doesn't change the fact that it's a fraction of the male characters versus all of the female characters.
The 30:1 comparison is a slight exaggeration, but the point is taken. However, all of the major male characters (including, I believe, every male POV character in both series bar two minor ones) are also subjected to sexual violence at one time or another.
Moreover, most of the rape scenes are pornographically, rather than horrifically, described. The author was clearly enjoying writing them, and seemed to be attempting to make them enjoyable to the reader.
The such scenes in the books are described in terms that are, frankly, deeply disturbing and borderline nauseating. I don't think that they were intended to be written to elicit such a reaction at all, and I certainly have not encountered any readers who believe they were. Bakker is certainly not Terry Goodkind, who uses such scenes as titilation, to appear "edgy" and who treats rape as a blunt instrument to deploy whenever cheap tension is needed.
This is easily the most divisive and "Marmitey" (for lack of a better term) work of epic fantasy of this century, so I certainly don't have a problem with people disliking it. Scott also definitely does not help himself with his online attitude (where trolling and actual argument tend to overrun one another), which is self-defeating.
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"But I interpreted it like this, so it can't be misogynist"
Also, dude, it's not the most divisive work of epic fantasy of this century. Stop trying to give it more glory than it's gotten. It's a small work by a small man.
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Long story short: this work does nothing new, and attempts to reify terrible, cliched, and harmful tropes. It's poorly written, pretentious, and enthusiastically bigoted.
aaand now tell us how you REALLY feel!
:)
IF you ignore/look past/roll your eyes at the sexism, how's the story itself?
Rehash of Tolkien with some religious elements, basically. But--and I don't know how to emphasize this enough--in some senses the supposed biotruths of sexism are the story. The main character is trained by a monk-like order which gives him control over other humans because he understands basic psychological and biological truths about people, which allow him to manipulate them. Many of those truths are sexual/gender-based. Essentially, the hero is a hero because he understands Bakker's conception of evolutionary psychology.
And given that evopsych is the phrenology of the 20th century--well, you can't really separate phrenology from its racist base assumptions, and you can't really separate evopsych from its misogynist and racist base assumptions.
Clearly we disagree on the issue, so rather than carry on with that dead end, I'll drop that there.
For those who may be interested, here's a selection of other reviews of the series:
Pat's Fantasy Hotlist - "So if you are looking for a new voice, an original series, set in a world that is fascinating and different than what is currently the norm in the fantasy genre, populated by deeply realized characters and societies, then The Darkness that Comes Before is definitely for you!"
I Hope I Didn't Just Give Away The Ending - "Taken as a whole, The Prince of Nothing series is a true masterpiece of speculative fiction, the most enthralling trilogy fantasy has been gifted with since 1959, and I envy all who have the opportunity to read these words for the first time."
Sandstorm Reviews - "This series distinguishes itself with a very dark and serious take on the subject, and is a long way from being by-numbers fantasy froth, for all that the landscape looks familiar."
The Atlantic - "These are brutal stories, with complex and often unsympathetic characters thrown together in a harsh and unforgiving world. For serious readers, Bakker's work is also quite a lot more philosophical than many of his contemporaries. Between fierce battles and sometimes truly chilling violence, there is plenty to keep you thinking."
Nethspace - "The Prince of Nothing trilogy stands apart as the single best completed fantasy series that I have read to date."
Mark Lawrence - "A book with depth, complexity, written with skill, and well worth a look."
George R.R. Martin - "I have read and admired his first trilogy." (GRRM's usual measured enthusiasm at work here)
John R. Fultz - "I’ve been singing the praises of Bakker’s fantasy work for awhile now. His is a fantasy on the scale of Tolkien without stealing any of the usual tropes that go with that scale. His work is brilliant, illuminating, and challenging. In short, it is literary fantasy…i.e. fantasy with literary qualities. “What exactly does that mean?” I hear somebody asking. Well, here’s what I tell my students on the first day of any literature class: Literature is a written work of art that explores what it means to be human."
Victoria Strauss - "To properly appreciate the scope, sweep, and power of this series, not to mention its complex thematic structure, it must be read from the beginning. And it should be read. Violent, passionate, darkly poetic, seethingly original, these are books that deserve attention from all true connoisseurs of fantasy."
Steven Erikson - "Exquisitely intelligent and beautifully written, R. Scott Bakker’s first novel in The Prince of Nothing series inspires both confidence and anticipation–this is fantasy with muscle and brains, rife with intrigue and admirable depth of character, set in a world laden with history and detail. Take note, one and all, something remarkable has begun here.…"
John Marco - "The Darkness That Comes Before introduces a vast and richly detailed world for lovers of good fantasy. Bakker’s imaginative creation is an impressive addition to the genre."
The Toronto Star (print review) - "One of the finest new fantasy creations in recent memory, a dazzling epic that breaks utterly free of the conventions of its genre."
The Globe & Mail (print review) - "Bakker has been praised by fans and critics around the world for his thoughtful, complex and meticulously detailed world, his colorful and credible characters, and his deviously intriguing, action-packed plotting."
Seattle Post-Intelligencer - "A fine example of the new anti-epic fiction at its best . . . This is one of the more brilliant pieces of writing that you’re liable to read for a long time."
Blogcritics - "A journey unlike any other you have experienced. Part Dante’s Inferno and part Conrad’s Heart Of Darkness, this is fantasy literature like you’ve never read before."
January Magazine - "What Bakker does that his contemporaries do not and that those SFF luminaries did was completely imagine — from the ground up — a universe so satisfyingly detailed you felt as though you could slip inside."
Edmonton Journal (print review) - "It is a profound and massive achievement, a work of both narrative and philosophical imaginative sweep."
The Guardian (print review) - "Intelligent is a term trotted out so often by publishers that it has become almost worthless – which is hard for the likes of Bakker, whose The Darkness That Comes Before truly is intelligent, and original, and all those other overused words."
Interesting comments, I was actually recommended to the series by a woman I was dating. I got it and found it a chore to read. I feel the series was overbearing..it wasn't a fun series to read..I don't like a fantasy series that tries to hard to be clever. I must confess the sexist connotations didn't register that much, mainly because I felt like it was a chore to get through the damn thing.
I have read a lot of fantasy and sci/fi. In fact, some series I have read over and over a dozen times, such as the Vorkosian saga, the Videssios novels by Turtledove, all the Dresden novels, and all the Sharpe novels by Bernard Cornwall. So, I like to read a lot and I have very varied tastes.
But Bakker's series is not enjoyable. The author tries to hard to prove he is smart and demands you prove worthy of his "gift" by understanding his unconventional story telling. I was ok when Stephen Erikson did this, but even then I was relieved when the Mazatlan series was over and I haven't bought any his or Esselmonts follow through for the exact reason I never reread Bakker..cause you shouldn't get a headache when reading a fantasy novel while on holiday sitting on a lawn chair on a beach in the Carribean.
Clearly we disagree on the issue, so rather than carry on with that dead end, I'll drop that there.
For those who may be interested, here's a selection of other reviews of the series:
Help me out here. Is that what you call an appeal to authority?
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Help me out here. Is that what you call an appeal to authority?Clearly we disagree on the issue, so rather than carry on with that dead end, I'll drop that there.
For those who may be interested, here's a selection of other reviews of the series:
That would indeed be the logical fallacy at play, yes.
Never ceases to amaze me what hills random interneters choose to die on. Bunch of white men over in the PFS forum insisting that Profession (slaver) MUST be legal in PFS. Dudes insisting that Bakker's misogynist id carnival is GREAT LITERATURE.
Gross.
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Help me out here. Is that what you call an appeal to authority?Clearly we disagree on the issue, so rather than carry on with that dead end, I'll drop that there.
For those who may be interested, here's a selection of other reviews of the series:
That would indeed be the logical fallacy at play, yes.
Never ceases to amaze me what hills random interneters choose to die on. Bunch of white men over in the PFS forum insisting that Profession (slaver) MUST be legal in PFS. Dudes insisting that Bakker's misogynist id carnival is GREAT LITERATURE.
Gross.
*eye twitch*
*eye twitch*
*foams*
Never had any interest in these books, which have been mentioned quite a few times on these boards, until this exchange.
Now I want to check it out for myself.
Thanks!
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Help me out here. Is that what you call an appeal to authority?Clearly we disagree on the issue, so rather than carry on with that dead end, I'll drop that there.
For those who may be interested, here's a selection of other reviews of the series:
That would indeed be the logical fallacy at play, yes.
Never ceases to amaze me what hills random interneters choose to die on. Bunch of white men over in the PFS forum insisting that Profession (slaver) MUST be legal in PFS. Dudes insisting that Bakker's misogynist id carnival is GREAT LITERATURE.
Gross.
Strange, because "you have the right to feel and think as you do, but know that you are in a minority" seems like a perfectly valid point to make in a conversation where people express opinions over a book. I mean, I have certainly been on the other side of it, raving against movies with a 98% rating on tomatometer. Over time I came to realize that what had me so angry at the movies was less an issue with their quality - I am willing to overlook poor quality in things that I love all the time (Pathfinder Fiction is a good example - the books aren't as good as other stuff that I read, but my love of the setting allows me look past that). Usually, the reason I HATE HATE HATE a thing that most people love has more to do with me personally hating an aspect of it which makes me unwilling to just like the good parts.
In the context of this specific discussion, your criticism of the books started out as an attack on misogynistic themes, and only later expanded to "oh and also everything else about the books sucks as well". There is a very valid reason for Werthead to point out that the main reason you strongly dislike everything about the books is that they offend you - and pointing out as he did that the series is loved by many bloggers and reviewers is therefore completely reasonable.
Now, I personally am highly unlikely to read Bakker's books any time soon. Not only am I bothered by real actual evidence of offensive sexism in Bakker's personality, I also strongly dislike religious themes in my books (I recently tried to get out of my comfort zone in this regard with Kameron Hurly's "God's War" but ended up not liking it much). I am not raving in defense of the book here - only in defense of having actual productive discussions rather than aggressive and short tempered exchanges. I think Werthead was justified in citing these reviews.
And finally, on a personal perspective note - I am fully capable of reading and enjoying books by authors who disgust me. For example, I read a lot of Lovecraft despite being a Jew and also fully aware of exactly what he thought of my race. Same with H.G Wells. I can certainly see why others do not share this willingness, but certainly what I'm looking for in a book tends to be a strong plot and an interesting world and round characters and exciting action. When I do encounter books where some sort of sexism or racism or something is inherent, but I feel is justified for the atmosphere of the story and setting, that probably wouldn't make me hate the book.
The Aspect-Emperor Book 4: The Unholy Consult
The Great Ordeal has crossed a thousand leagues in its quest to reach Golgotterath, stronghold of the vile Consult, and to destroy it and the abominations it harbours within. It has braved a horde of a million Sranc, betrayal and, in the shadow of the ancient fortress of Dagliash, a weapon unlike any seen before in the world. Before it lies the Agongorea, an utterly dead land, beyond which lies the fabled Golden Horns of their foe. But the Ordeal is stretched to breaking point, its food gone, its Aspect-Emperor departed on an errand of his own and its greatest heroes missing on dire quests. It falls to King Nersei Proyas to guide the Ordeal over the last leg of its journey...and to a confrontation with history.
When is the ending not the ending? Thirty years ago, when Scott Bakker first conceived of The Second Apocalypse, he planned to conclude it with the events that, finally, conclude this novel. Some time later he reflected that this might not be the best idea, and drafted a plan for (at least) two further novels to wrap up the saga in a different manner.
Having finished The Unholy Consult - the seventh and most revelatory novel in the series to date - it is hard to say if this was a good idea or not. For those who read this series (so far comprising two sub-series, the Prince of Nothing trilogy and the Aspect-Emperor quartet) for the warring philosophies, SF ideas such as genetic engineering and quantum theory seen through an epic fantasy prism and the way it inverts so many fantasy tropes to the point where they unhinge, I suspect they would have seen nothing wrong with Bakker dropping the mike on the final line of this book (and it's a humdinger) and walking off into the sunset. I suspect other readers, such as those who enjoy the brainy digressions of the series but still read it as an epic fantasy with cool magic and a mystery-laden storyline, would be more horrified at the prospect. Whilst dropping the series at this point would doubtlessly be more artistic, more bloody-minded and more, well, Bakker, it'd also be, from a mundane narrative standpoint, less satisfying.
Rewinding to the start, The Unholy Consult picks up in the tumultuous aftermath of The Great Ordeal, which left many of the major characters of the series apparently dead or missing. The novel wastes no time in resolving most of these questions and getting the story back on track. Other events fall away and the story begins to narrow in on Golgotterath as the Great Ordeal, battered, bloodied and compromised by the horrors it has been forced to adopt to survive, finally arrives in the shadow of the Golden Horns. Other factions soon join them and there are moments of reunion as characters compare notes on their experiences and realise that their prior assumptions about what they face may have been erroneous.
From there the book explodes in a titanic battle sequence as Ordeal and Consult finally clash and we realise, in the grand tradition of Tolkien (whose influence lies deeper on this series than I think is often appreciated), that both forces are not what they once were, that evil has degraded and is lesser than it once was even as good faces the same predicament. The battle is long, arduous and packed with individual moments of epic heroism and foul reversals. Bakker, for all of his philosophical preoccupations, is good at blowing stuff up and sets to blowing stuff up in this battle with wild abandon. But the battle outside the foul Ark is matched by another struggle deeper within it, as intellects and ideologies clash in a struggle of viewpoints which is even more important.
Indeed, seasoned fantasy readers may be struck by the structural similarity between The Unholy Consult and A Memory of Light, the final novel in the Wheel of Time sequence, of the great "last" battle of swords and sorcery being matched by a battle of arguments and semantics that may decide the fate of the world. Bakker is considerably more concise here (in a novel less than half and only a bit more than a third as long as A Memory of Light) and of course roots his arguments in considerably more complex concepts.
The Unholy Consult is a striking novel, remarkable for its conciseness given the magnitude of the ending it depicts (similar to The Thousandfold Thought, the conclusion of The Prince of Nothing trilogy which opened this mega-series, Bakker knows how to drop an effective ending without milking it for a thousand pages) and for the way the author handles his revelations. This series is rooted in mysteries built atop mysteries and it'd be easy for the author to refuse to address them (like Lost), or give a nonsensical, pat answer you suspect they thought of only five minutes earlier (like the latter Battlestar Galactica), but Bakker shows no fear in simply squarely answering questions with answers reached a long time before. He resolves thematic and character arcs begun fourteen years ago in The Darkness That Came Before and if you figured out the answer to a particular mystery in a late-night discussion on the Three-Seas, Westeros.org or Second Apocalypse Forums five years ago, well done. Also, hold tight because here come another three revelations which you really didn't see coming. There are some revelations here that will have the reader nodding in approval, others that will be mystifying and several that are surprising in both their content and their elegance (one, extraordinarily important, answer to a vital series-spanning question would even border on the mundane, but the implications of the revelation are far-reaching).
Other issues go resolutely unaddressed: those hoping for Bakker to drop a Dungeons and Dragons Manual of the Planes-style explanation of how the metaphysics in his universe work should brace themselves for disappointment, although some concepts are further elaborated upon. The author is careful here to reveal some more of the recipe for this story without giving you a full list of the ingredients.
Events build in the novel to a frenzy of battles, arguments and, yes, death swirling down, and Bakker sticks the landing. Epic fantasies have a rather horrible tendency to blow the ending but The Aspect-Emperor gets the payoff it deserves, more The Lord of the Rings and The Crippled God rather than Magician's End or The Born Queen, and epic and impressive it is. You not so much read the finale as survive it, and in the nerve-shredded aftermath have to ask the question which will drive a lot of discussion in the months and years ahead: "Now what?"
The Unholy Consult (****½) is perhaps less elegantly structured as a novel than some of its forebears, with not much in the way of build up before it starts smashing things asunder (from that perspective, this books feels the lack of The Great Ordeal immediately before it far more keenly than vice versa), but it makes up for that with tremendously satisfying character moments, Bakker's best-ever action scenes and, in the final chapter, possibly Bakker's most powerfully effective pieces of prose to date. The novel will be published on 6 July 2017 in the UK and on 11 July in the USA.
Note: The Unholy Consult is a relatively short novel, clocking in at around 450 pages. The rest of the book is made up by an encyclopaedic glossary - an expanded successor to that found in The Thousandfold Thought - a collection of maps and two short stories previously only available on Bakker's website: The False Sun and Four Revelations.