Deep 6 FaWtL


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*wipes tomato*

Ouch.


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Just a Mort wrote:

Setting property not belonging to you on fire is considered arson.

Defences to arson under lawful excuse:

belief in consent

belief that property was in immediate need of protection

-Lawful Kitty.

Belief that property was in immediate need of protection?

'Yes, Your Honour. The only way to keep the bungalow safe was to BURN IT ALL DOWN!'

'Urrghyur, fair enough, matee. You can piss off cuz I fink you ain't guilty - nice one - and give the clerk of the court a fiver when you go out'

Also, Ms Mort, are you doing anything special for Singapore's Total Defence Day?

I understand that an Important Message Signal will be broadcast through the island's sirens.


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Yeah, I was washing and dressing myself just a few minutes ago, including marching naked from my room to my bathroom.

The Exchange

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I believe lawful excuse was more like destroying the barricade so you could push his car out from his rapidly flooding car park.

Or creating a firebreak so that the house doesn't burn down.

I am surprised gran didn't get flamed by the dragon.

Do things for total defence day? Meh I ain't that patriotic.

The Exchange

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gran rey de los mono wrote:
Tonight's game did not end up with a TPK. Not even a single PC death. Boo. But on the bright side, I did manage to Blind the Archer and the new Necromancer (brought in to replace the Alchemist), so that's good. And the Cavalier has been retired in favor of an Oracle, which I think is a shame since the player had been having a lot of fun as the Cavalier. But she thought that the party needed a healer (which it did), and since no one else was going to do it, she decided to. So no more gnome charging around on a My Little Pony. Sad.

I always keep party composition in mind when rolling characters. The issue is sometimes what I feel the party needs isn't what they want, and I never play my Clerics as healbots.

Condition removal, fine. Healbots? No effing way.


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Total defense? Does that mean I should be careful about throwing tomatoes at Mort?

The Exchange

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Oh yes you should. We are a whole nation of martial artists trained in snatch arrows feat.

Bluff: 1d20 - 2 ⇒ (6) - 2 = 4


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*Sense Motive: 1d20 ⇒ 4*

That's impressive. I shall be sure not to use arrows. Only crossbow bolts.


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Or tomatoes, since you apparently can't catch those.

The Exchange

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Lol. Technically snatch arrows works on all thrown weapons, which would include tomatoes.


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Nope. Arrows only. Says so in the name.

The Exchange

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Snatch arrows feat:

When using the Deflect Arrows feat you may choose to catch the weapon instead of just deflecting it.

Thrown weapons(like tomatoes) can immediately be thrown back as an attack against the original attacker (even though it isn’t your turn) or kept for later use.

Deflect Arrows:

Once per round when you would normally be hit with an attack from a ranged weapon(like tomatoes) you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it.

The Exchange

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Burp. Just had dinner.

*purrs*

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I love watching monks deflect gunslinger attacks.


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Just a Mort wrote:

OK then probably not in your case. I vouch that my BF and I run together but I don't notice any jiggling.

I know I jiggle when I run and it makes me horribly embarrassed so I've tried to take steps to minimize it.

you haven't watched him run naked then, I take it? Because if he didn't jiggle a bit when running naked, something is up.... (or not)


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Orthos wrote:
Just a Mort wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Scintillae wrote:
Scintillae wrote:

"Ms. Scint, don't take this the wrong way, but I hope you never run for office or get any measure of political power."

This may be the greatest compliment I've ever received...

DANGIT. Other class is demanding I run in 2024. I'll run all right. Run away.
If you run, I'll run.

And if freehold runs, I'll run away.

I wonder what he'd do in political office. Probably declare everyone should walk down the street naked.

I know people say hyperbolic stuff like this all the time, but that probably would be the straw that would get me to consider relocating to a different country.

Cats and dogs must also live together, by Freeholdian decree.


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Just a Mort wrote:

Here’s a slightly controversial topic. Please keep flames and bad feelings to a minimum.

“Alignment debates are a waste of time and get nowhere.”

My argument for the above statement:

I looked at an alignment debate thread, and realized that everyone has a different idea of what passes for what is an acceptable action for a said alignment. The thread got derailed, lots of people were saying things were done in a way which were badwrongfun and calling each other names.

At the end of the day, everyone has a different style of gaming (and it’s not right to say a particular style of gaming is wrong, either – since it all boils down to personal freedoms) and what people think are appropriate for alignments is a reflection of that.

Your thoughts?

i love alignment debates, but only so long as they remain civil. I think alignment in general needs to be revisited, as there are a lot of generic actions in the adventuring life that are pretty evil.


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Just a Mort wrote:

Also I wanted to apologize to FAWTL peeps that often I don't watch the links, because I'm on phone, and my mobile data has limits, and YouTube videos eat a lot of data. Not to mention I'd have to watch without sound since the world mustn't catch me watching.

And most of my time here is spent on phone.

I only use my phone nowadays. I have tried to call people by pressing on their name before, when tired. Or drunk.

The Exchange

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Here

27A.—(1) Any person who appears nude —
(a) in a public place; or
(b) in a private place and is exposed to public view,
shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $2,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or to both.

So yes, I've never seen him run naked.


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Just a Mort wrote:

Here

27A.—(1) Any person who appears nude —
(a) in a public place; or
(b) in a private place and is exposed to public view,
shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $2,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or to both.

So yes, I've never seen him run naked.

not even at home? Oh man.

Public and private naked running is now an important part of my health initiative for the presidency!

The Exchange

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Our public housing is about the size of 95 square meters. There simply isn't enough space to even accelerate into a run in the house.

And our public housing is built this close to each other. So even if you wanted to be naked in your own house, you'd have to draw the curtains so the people in the next block don't see you.


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Just a Mort wrote:

Our public housing is about the size of 95 square meters. There simply isn't enough space to even accelerate into a run in the house.

And our public housing is built this close to each other. So even if you wanted to be naked in your own house, you'd have to draw the curtains so the people in the next block don't see you.

wooooow


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Just a Mort wrote:
Our public housing is about the size of 95 square meters.

Or about 1,035 square feet.


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Just a Mort wrote:

Using the alignment debate would lead no where hypothesis, who then should get the responsibility on policing alignments, in the case of classes that require it - paladins, monks, barbarians.

Or should there be no alignment pre requisites for those classes?

Or there should be no alignment repercussions for player character actions?

So, I could write pages on this because I have very strongly-held opinions, but there seem to be four camps:

  • "Good" is just the mirror image of "Evil", so the alignments are indistinguishable except insofar as they are opposed. The people who subscribe to this approach tend to be the ones who just must play antipaladins "because they're SO cool", have no issues with Evil-aligned campaigns, etc. They're also the ones who show up on the alignment forums and insist that it is absolutely fine for a Good-aligned PC to torture an Evil creature simply because it's Evil.
    They point out the cheerfully-genocidal Torag as an example of how Paizo never meant alignments to be restrictive: Torag is LG, but advocates genocide against "Evil" races, with no regard for individual variation within those races.
  • "Good" and "Evil" are exactly what the rules say; no more, no less. If it isn't explicitly listed, it isn't part of the alignment.
  • "Good" and "Evil" were defined way back when the first paladin code came out, so things like sneak attacks, poison, and ambushes are all Evil because they were forbidden to paladins. Heck, I've even seen people in this camp argue that paladins are not allowed to use ranged weapons because it violates their code of conduct in some convoluted way. Must make it hard to be a paladin of Erastil in their games...
  • "Good" and "Evil" are abstract concepts left for the most part up to the GM's judgement. But they are not mirror images, and it is necessarily far more difficult to be "Good" than "Evil" because you are restricting your actions based solely on compassion, sympathy, and a notion of "right" and "wrong" wherein you are opposed to doing "wrong".

  • If you simply consider these four camps, it is fairly obvious that none of them can reconcile.

    In my games, actions have consequences. If you're nice to people and work hard to better the local community without regard for personal gain, you get a bonus on Diplomacy rolls, you are more likely to be granted free things (room and board, minor items), and in general things go better for you. If you go around being a selfish jerk, nobody likes you and things are harder.

    Oops! Work time!


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    Tested the camp stove outside on the deck.
    As it is 41 here this morning, I figured this would be a fair test of the conditions under which I might be starting the stove up in the morning for coffee and oatmeal at the campsite.
    Although I cheated, and made my first cup of coffee in the kitchen before going out onto the deck.

    And it works.
    And I saved the pdf instruction sheet to my phone.

    Now to think of all the things I need to make sure I pack.
    Like toilet paper (primitive campground, pit toilets, no guarantees) and anything I have forgotten on previous trips.


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    Outhouses is one of my biggest fears.

    Edit: And with this post I've now listed my three biggest fears somewhere in the last 3,000 pages.


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    Just a Mort wrote:
    Our public housing is about the size of 95 square meters. There simply isn't enough space to even accelerate into a run in the house.

    That's almost twice the coverage of my flat.


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    NobodysHome wrote:
    Just a Mort wrote:

    Using the alignment debate would lead no where hypothesis, who then should get the responsibility on policing alignments, in the case of classes that require it - paladins, monks, barbarians.

    Or should there be no alignment pre requisites for those classes?

    Or there should be no alignment repercussions for player character actions?

    So, I could write pages on this because I have very strongly-held opinions, but there seem to be four camps:

  • "Good" is just the mirror image of "Evil", so the alignments are indistinguishable except insofar as they are opposed. The people who subscribe to this approach tend to be the ones who just must play antipaladins "because they're SO cool", have no issues with Evil-aligned campaigns, etc. They're also the ones who show up on the alignment forums and insist that it is absolutely fine for a Good-aligned PC to torture an Evil creature simply because it's Evil.
    They point out the cheerfully-genocidal Torag as an example of how Paizo never meant alignments to be restrictive: Torag is LG, but advocates genocide against "Evil" races, with no regard for individual variation within those races.
  • "Good" and "Evil" are exactly what the rules say; no more, no less. If it isn't explicitly listed, it isn't part of the alignment.
  • "Good" and "Evil" were defined way back when the first paladin code came out, so things like sneak attacks, poison, and ambushes are all Evil because they were forbidden to paladins. Heck, I've even seen people in this camp argue that paladins are not allowed to use ranged weapons because it violates their code of conduct in some convoluted way. Must make it hard to be a paladin of Erastil in their games...
  • "Good" and "Evil" are abstract concepts left for the most part up to the GM's judgement. But they are not mirror images, and it is necessarily farmore difficult to be "Good" than "Evil" because you are restricting your actions based solely on compassion, sympathy, and a...
  • there is VERY interesting real world history with respect to number three, at least one pope(or someone in his administration, maybe?) thought crossbows were evil because they were instruments of murder, ditto the first european firearms. I forget who or what, but the phrase iron wrought murder comes to mind...

    I am interested in using better phrasing and more modern parlance to bring these alignment arguements to a close.


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    A mall had a sale of various Asian-themed and Asian-flavored goodies, because of Chinese New Year, though the array of choices seemed to be more focused on Thay (though I saw a "Chinese, Singapore-inspired sauce", I picked two cheaper "Chinese" sauces instead). I put Chinese in parentheses, because most of those products were produces in EU, and might or might not resemble the originals.

    I bought sweet and sour sauce (Thai), rice noodles, bean noodles, two or three jars of Chinese sauces, and a can of coconut milk. Oh, and soy sauce.

    The Exchange

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    NH wrote:
    "Good" and "Evil" were defined way back when the first paladin code came out, so things like sneak attacks, poison, and ambushes are all Evil because they were forbidden to paladins. Heck, I've even seen people in this camp argue that paladins are not allowed to use ranged weapons because it violates their code of conduct in some convoluted way. Must make it hard to be a paladin of Erastil in their games... "

    By this argument, rogues cannot be good aligned? Geez. What a spoilsport...

    And yeah there's a paladin archetype, divine hunter that specializes in ranged combat. Now how the heck is that even supposed to be possible?

    I did that in my games as well...actions have consequences.

    I probably fall in the second camp - "Good" and "Evil" are exactly what the rules say; no more, no less. If it isn't explicitly listed, it isn't part of the alignment. "

    Good implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. - So please make sure those people you murderhobo deserve to be murderhoboed.

    Like for me personally if you want to kill all the goblin babies, deciding they will be like their parents and burn down the town when they grow up, well, I don't see anything wrong with that.

    If you want to raise the goblin babies to teach them to live in harmony with the townsfolk, well, I don't see anything wrong with that either.

    The Exchange

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    The reason why the pope wanted to outlaw crossbows was because it gave the peasants ways to defend themselves against armored knights and the nobility. And it was the nobility that contributed to the Church's coffers anyway. So they wanted to preserve status quo.

    As quoted by the article, the great equalizer

    Now I am no history buff, so I believe that some FAWTLer who is really a history buff would be able to explain the whole thing better.

    The Exchange

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    Drejk wrote:

    A mall had a sale of various Asian-themed and Asian-flavored goodies, because of Chinese New Year, though the array of choices seemed to be more focused on Thay (though I saw a "Chinese, Singapore-inspired sauce", I picked two cheaper "Chinese" sauces instead). I put Chinese in parentheses, because most of those products were produces in EU, and might or might not resemble the originals.

    I bought sweet and sour sauce (Thai), rice noodles, bean noodles, two or three jars of Chinese sauces, and a can of coconut milk. Oh, and soy sauce.

    Soy sauce is one of the cornerstones of Chinese cooking. You might try to get your hands on fishgravy as well, its good for frying vegetables.

    You can use soya sauce + ginger + spring onions + chilli to steam fish.

    The Exchange

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    Drejk wrote:
    Just a Mort wrote:
    Our public housing is about the size of 95 square meters. There simply isn't enough space to even accelerate into a run in the house.
    That's almost twice the coverage of my flat.

    That's for an entire family to live in? Not a single person?


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    You've got a good 30 meters more than us (a family of four and a dog).

    But we also have a yard.

    The Exchange

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    NH wrote:
    "Good" and "Evil" are abstract concepts left for the most part up to the GM's judgement. But they are not mirror images, and it is necessarily far more difficult to be "Good" than "Evil" because you are restricting your actions based solely on compassion, sympathy, and a notion of "right" and "wrong" wherein you are opposed to doing "wrong".

    I wouldn't want to go by this school - since what if the GM had a bad day? He might just decide your paladin fell because he didn't have enough time to have lunch...

    The Exchange

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    We have no yard. It's all high rise.


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    Just a Mort wrote:

    Using the alignment debate would lead no where hypothesis, who then should get the responsibility on policing alignments, in the case of classes that require it - paladins, monks, barbarians.

    Or should there be no alignment pre requisites for those classes?

    Or there should be no alignment repercussions for player character actions?

    In the case of the paladin, it’s more about following their code. So I would want to know ahead of time what the code includes. Whether I am playing or running. I don’t play paladins very often though because my real life GM has too much fun with the paladin’s dilemma type scenarios, so I know those characters are either going to die or fall before the campaign is done.

    With monks or barbaraians I would look at tendencies as opposed to individual instances. Does the monk tend towards discipline and following rules? Does the barbarian tend towards contrariness and sticking it to the man? If yes, then it’s all good. I view alignment as an average rather than a straightjacket. And honestly I don’t really care too much unless the difference between what is and what should be is really egregious.


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    Just a Mort wrote:
    NH wrote:
    "Good" and "Evil" are abstract concepts left for the most part up to the GM's judgement. But they are not mirror images, and it is necessarily far more difficult to be "Good" than "Evil" because you are restricting your actions based solely on compassion, sympathy, and a notion of "right" and "wrong" wherein you are opposed to doing "wrong".
    I wouldn't want to go by this school - since what if the GM had a bad day? He might just decide your paladin fell because he didn't have enough time to have lunch...

    LOL. It's the school to which I subscribe. :-P


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    Just a Mort wrote:
    Drejk wrote:
    Just a Mort wrote:
    Our public housing is about the size of 95 square meters. There simply isn't enough space to even accelerate into a run in the house.
    That's almost twice the coverage of my flat.
    That's for an entire family to live in? Not a single person?

    Yes. Two rooms, kitchen, bathroom with toilet. Quite a standard here for a family composed of two parents and two kids.

    Of course, during the communist era for a short time when I was but a wee hatchling, there were six people living there: my parents, my father's parents, my brother, and me. The grandparents moved out when I was three or four, to their own flat in nearby (2 hours of car drive) town in local mountains...

    I was supposed to inherit their flat... Grrr.

    Ah, well, I got the flat from my parents when they moved out to UK.


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    Kidlet is doing better. Still sick, but less fever. And less of a fight to get him to drink fluids, although that’s partially because I bought all his favorites yesterday.

    I am more sick, but moms don’t get sick days. Especially not when everybody else is already sick. :/


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    NobodysHome wrote:
    Just a Mort wrote:
    NH wrote:
    "Good" and "Evil" are abstract concepts left for the most part up to the GM's judgement. But they are not mirror images, and it is necessarily far more difficult to be "Good" than "Evil" because you are restricting your actions based solely on compassion, sympathy, and a notion of "right" and "wrong" wherein you are opposed to doing "wrong".
    I wouldn't want to go by this school - since what if the GM had a bad day? He might just decide your paladin fell because he didn't have enough time to have lunch...
    LOL. It's the school to which I subscribe. :-P

    Of the four described I'd say, me too, that might have something to do that I studied philosophy and had actual ethics class.

    And the situation you describe Mort, is a case of jerk GM that could apply to absolutely anything. Of course I would not make anyone fall because I hadn't had lunch. I am not one of those folks who are getting irritated by such petty distractions like lack of food.


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    Just a Mort wrote:
    Drejk wrote:

    A mall had a sale of various Asian-themed and Asian-flavored goodies, because of Chinese New Year, though the array of choices seemed to be more focused on Thay (though I saw a "Chinese, Singapore-inspired sauce", I picked two cheaper "Chinese" sauces instead). I put Chinese in parentheses, because most of those products were produces in EU, and might or might not resemble the originals.

    I bought sweet and sour sauce (Thai), rice noodles, bean noodles, two or three jars of Chinese sauces, and a can of coconut milk. Oh, and soy sauce.

    Soy sauce is one of the cornerstones of Chinese cooking. You might try to get your hands on fishgravy as well, its good for frying vegetables.

    You can use soya sauce + ginger + spring onions + chilli to steam fish.

    There was fish sauce available.


    3 people marked this as a favorite.
    Freehold DM wrote:
    Just a Mort wrote:

    Here’s a slightly controversial topic. Please keep flames and bad feelings to a minimum.

    “Alignment debates are a waste of time and get nowhere.”

    My argument for the above statement:

    I looked at an alignment debate thread, and realized that everyone has a different idea of what passes for what is an acceptable action for a said alignment. The thread got derailed, lots of people were saying things were done in a way which were badwrongfun and calling each other names.

    At the end of the day, everyone has a different style of gaming (and it’s not right to say a particular style of gaming is wrong, either – since it all boils down to personal freedoms) and what people think are appropriate for alignments is a reflection of that.

    Your thoughts?

    i love alignment debates, but only so long as they remain civil. I think alignment in general needs to be revisited, as there are a lot of generic actions in the adventuring life that are pretty evil.

    I love a good alignment debate, civil or otherwise. Bonus points for debates on what if any alignment restrictions are appropriate for class X.

    What I find a pointless waste of time is "What combination of character widgets would pop culture character X be in D&D?" I. Don't. Care. Fiction is not role play, and role play is not fiction.


    Drejk wrote:
    Just a Mort wrote:
    Drejk wrote:
    Just a Mort wrote:
    Our public housing is about the size of 95 square meters. There simply isn't enough space to even accelerate into a run in the house.
    That's almost twice the coverage of my flat.
    That's for an entire family to live in? Not a single person?

    Yes. Two rooms, kitchen, bathroom with toilet. Quite a standard here for a family composed of two parents and two kids.

    Of course, during the communist era for a short time when I was but a wee hatchling, there were six people living there: my parents, my father's parents, my brother, and me. The grandparents moved out when I was three or four, to their own flat in nearby (2 hours of car drive) town in local mountains...

    I was supposed to inherit their flat... Grrr.

    Ah, well, I got the flat from my parents when they moved out to UK.

    Look, Drake, all I’m saying, is that here in Florida, there are an awful lot of nice places, and extra spaces, and if you’re in the house cleaning, if our two boys ended up in the same room together, we would have would could hypothetically be called a guest/fellow apartment renter bedroom… Although it’s a house… Not an apartment… You know what I mean! Princesses also we own the place, but we’re paying off our mortgage. Look: it’s not a great analogy, or choice. They can’t all be winners! Stop judging me!)


    Important I RL-disclaimer: the above post, while seriously inviting you to Florida, was mostly and just, as I cannot actually invite anybody to stay long-term at our house, without getting approval/discussing things with my wife well in advance! That said… Having a game-developer/House-keep her living here… ;P


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    Tequila Sunrise wrote:
    Freehold DM wrote:
    Just a Mort wrote:

    Here’s a slightly controversial topic. Please keep flames and bad feelings to a minimum.

    “Alignment debates are a waste of time and get nowhere.”

    My argument for the above statement:

    I looked at an alignment debate thread, and realized that everyone has a different idea of what passes for what is an acceptable action for a said alignment. The thread got derailed, lots of people were saying things were done in a way which were badwrongfun and calling each other names.

    At the end of the day, everyone has a different style of gaming (and it’s not right to say a particular style of gaming is wrong, either – since it all boils down to personal freedoms) and what people think are appropriate for alignments is a reflection of that.

    Your thoughts?

    i love alignment debates, but only so long as they remain civil. I think alignment in general needs to be revisited, as there are a lot of generic actions in the adventuring life that are pretty evil.

    I love a good alignment debate, civil or otherwise. Bonus points for debates on what if any alignment restrictions are appropriate for class X.

    What I find a pointless waste of time is "What combination of character widgets would pop culture character X be in D&D?" I. Don't. Care. Fiction is not role play, and role play is not fiction.

    I don't get into conversations about converting characters into Pathfinder/D&D, but I occasionally do it as a mental exercise for my own amusement. Sometimes I like the concept enough that I adapt it (not strictly) for an actual character that I will play. For instance, I turned Benedict Jacka's Alex Verus character into a 1/x Inspired Blade and Steel Hound Swashbuckler/Empiricist Investigator with VMC Diviner. He was an absolute blast to play, but he ultimately died at level 3 (1/2) due to being tripped onto his own live fuse grenade, which having failed to make several saves, set off nearly all of his other flammable/volatile possessions that he had (alchemist fire, other grenades, etc). The resulting cave-in didn't help him much either.


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    Most of our apartments have been in the 37 to 55 square meter range. We lived with 55 for 7 years, then 37 for another 7 years. Now we have more like 75. The house itself has about 300 square meters, but 75 is our share of it. The rest is all for our landlord and his dogs, but we have kitchen and dining room privileges. Except for he's a slob and there's a constant mess and random piles of electronics, papers, and motorcycle gear on every surface.


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    Let Batman resolve alignment disputes for you (Spoiler: this will solve exactly zero disputes) .


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    I think our house is listed at 120 square meters, but that included the unfinished, uninsulated garage. The actual available living space is closer to 83.


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    lisamarlene wrote:
    Except for he's a slob and there's a constant mess and random piles of electronics, papers,

    I didn’t... I didn’t think I was your landlord... Am Incausing trouble for you? I’m sorry! I know it’s bad, but I kind of thought it felt homey and loved in! I vow to amend my ways, I-!

    lisamarlene wrote:
    and motorcycle gear on every surface.

    ... oh, it’s not me: Whew! Yeah, that guys awful, isn’t he?! Man. That guy.

    >.>

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