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Sissyl wrote:
But not every genre has something so vile as an ancient stalker as the love interest, which Twilight has. Certainly, fantasy has its fair share of offputting heroes, Thomas Covenant comes to mind for fantasy, but he at least isn't portrayed as a male ideal...

there are far, fat worse things. I'll find some old groaners (and a few true horrors) when i get back home.


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Of course.

Of course.

*sigh*


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Especially the bit about "old groaners" and "true horrors" - seriously good (bad) timing. XD


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Sure, there is worse in fantasy. Now find me one such book that has a) been marketed explicitly at teenagers and b) 20 M+ copies sold.


NobodysHome wrote:

Gods, this week is teaching me quickly why my manager considers me her "best" employee.

For 2 weeks now she's been announcing at team meeting, e-mailing, and posting on our department's status page:

  • Testing starts on December 6. We do not have machines before then
  • Check this spreadsheet for your assignments
  • Contact the author before starting testing

  • So yesterday morning I got an IM from one of my teammates. "Hey, NobodysHome! I'm starting testing on your labs right now, but they're not where I found them before. Where can I find them?"

    I had to reply:
    #1: You are NOT my tester!
    #2: You do NOT have a machine!
    #3: You might have just seriously screwed someone else up by running my OLD labs on a random machine
    Please cease and desist

    So I notified my manager that the message wasn't getting across, so in team meeting today she emphasized: "We DO NOT HAVE MACHINES TODAY!"

    Right after team meeting I got an e-mail from one of my real testers: "Hey, NobodysHome! Since you'll be out for a bit tomorrow, I thought I'd start testing today. Where are your labs? What machine can I use?"

    Doesn't ANYONE in the department LISTEN?!?!?

    Grr...

    You're MY best employee, NH! In fact, I'mma octuple the full salary I'm paying you now!!!

    Honestly no idea where I was going with this. But! You're a really cool dude!


    3 people marked this as a favorite.
    Scintillae wrote:
    NobodysHome wrote:
    Sissyl wrote:
    But not every genre has something so vile as an ancient stalker as the love interest, which Twilight has. Certainly, fantasy has its fair share of offputting heroes, Thomas Covenant comes to mind for fantasy, but he at least isn't portrayed as a male ideal...

    Hey, utterly vile, dislikable male love interests are not restricted to modern writing.

    Relevant

    seen this so many times in real life it is disgusting...


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Sissyl wrote:

    Hey, why you hatin' on Norm??? :)

    If we call the Gor novels fantasy, which is a big if. The typical trashy fantasy romance has the hero rescue the love interest, deserve her love by his courage and prowess. Agreed, it's silly and stupid, but even that is better than "I am an ancient vampire, and I chase after teenage girls because I can. I really like watching them sleep, and feel very protective of them, and eventually I marry one of them, make her pregnant, and turn her into an undead monster like myself..."

    you just described 70 percent of neonates in my old vtm games.

    The memories...


    Sissyl wrote:
    Sure, there is worse in fantasy. Now find me one such book that has a) been marketed explicitly at teenagers and b) 20 M+ copies sold.

    harry potter.


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    Again, not really fantasy. But I am curious... who there is that terrible AND A PROTAGONIST?


    4 people marked this as a favorite.
    Freehold DM wrote:
    Scintillae wrote:
    NobodysHome wrote:
    Sissyl wrote:
    But not every genre has something so vile as an ancient stalker as the love interest, which Twilight has. Certainly, fantasy has its fair share of offputting heroes, Thomas Covenant comes to mind for fantasy, but he at least isn't portrayed as a male ideal...

    Hey, utterly vile, dislikable male love interests are not restricted to modern writing.

    Relevant
    seen this so many times in real life it is disgusting...

    When we were in high school, my friend and I coined the term, "A*****e Dazzle" to describe the inexplicable attraction otherwise perfectly-nice, perfectly-intelligent young women had towards abusive men.

    The worst part? My friend in question started treating girls like dirt as a result. And was suddenly one of the most popular "eligible boys" in high school. (I stopped associating with him as a result. I couldn't stomach the way he was treating women I liked and respected.) I did not choose that route, and ended up not having a single girlfriend in high school. Once I got my mohawk and leather jacket, I became far more popular, and went from "never been kissed" at 17 to "in a permanent relationship" at 20.

    Women like dangerous men...


    4 people marked this as a favorite.
    Freehold DM wrote:
    Sissyl wrote:
    But not every genre has something so vile as an ancient stalker as the love interest, which Twilight has. Certainly, fantasy has its fair share of offputting heroes, Thomas Covenant comes to mind for fantasy, but he at least isn't portrayed as a male ideal...
    there are far, fat worse things. I'll find some old groaners (and a few true horrors) when i get back home.

    That typo is so delightful at the top of the page that I feel I should have it framed...


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    Icyshadow wrote:
    Sorry about the sudden quiet again, night shift + school is a VERY rough combination to try and pull off.

    HOW DARE YOU!!! Don't you know that you are supposed to entertain me? Now DANCE!!!

    j/k! I understand. Good luck.


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    captain yesterday wrote:
    NobodysHome wrote:

    Yesterday was an interesting eye-opener about the changing cooking of our times.

    I needed molasses.
    2.5 gallons of molasses, to be precise.

    When I was a kid, molasses was a staple sweetener: Gingerbread, popcorn balls, and many, many other baked goods that wanted that rich, earthy sweetness.
    Nowadays, it's hard to find in larger than a 12-ounce bottle.

    Costco trip: No molasses at all.
    Andronico's: Nothing but 12-ounce bottles, but they pointed me towards TJ's and their "1 liter bottle"
    Trader Joe's: Nothing but 15-ounce bottles, and that after being told by the first guy that they didn't have any at all. And enough dust on the bottles to know that it wasn't exactly a fast mover.

    So 120 ounces purchased, 200 to go, and it looks like I'm going to have to empty Andronico's shelves of the stuff.

    Don't people do Christmas baking any more? Doesn't most winter baking involve molasses?

    I think it's just the times.

    Anyone that's going to need a s*+@load of molasses is either going to get it catered or be a baker or caterer in which case they get it wholesale.

    I am a bit surprised Costco didn't have it in bulk.

    No one uses molasses here.

    Of course, we get our sugar from sugar beets, and sugar beet molasses is (supposedly) awful in taste, used as an animal fodder additive, not something suitable for treats.


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    Hey guys! I keep making videos.

    This one is on what it's like to have bipolar disorder. I'm a wee bit emotional in this one. If you know anyone who has it, I highly recommend. I can tell you, we usually feel grossly misunderstood by the rest of the world.

    This one is another one on religion - it's about mutual exclusivity. For those of you who pretty much aren't TL and Sharoth - Sorry. That's why I threw a couple others in the mix that aren't religious.

    I'm actually pretty proud of the BP one. I think I did a decent job illustrating what it's like.


    3 people marked this as a favorite.
    Freehold DM wrote:
    Sissyl wrote:
    Sure, there is worse in fantasy. Now find me one such book that has a) been marketed explicitly at teenagers and b) 20 M+ copies sold.
    harry potter.

    I will duel you over this, sir.


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    I find molasses all the time at the Publix here - store brand only for some reason. It's like 12 cents for a bottle, which is usually about the size of a Coke can, and will last you 97 years or so.

    I've used it for:

    1) Making weed shisha. Don't judge me. It works. Just grind up the green, add a teeeeeeeeeny bit of molasses - just enough to make it a gooey consistency, and then mix about 3 or 4:1 ratio with real shisha, because even then you need a little of the real stuff to get it to smoke right. You'll get f+%!ed up beyond your wildest dreams - but you're also gonna use a LOT of weed up.

    2) Adding it to coffee. Half a teaspoon packs a wallop with flavor, and it's a pretty neat combo.

    3) Baking stuff. I don't think I've ever used more than a spoonful.

    It is impossible to actually take out the proper amount you want to use, however, due to the viscosity of the molasses itself. You WILL spill, or more accurately, drizzle, some of it out every time you put a spoon in. Nature of the beast.


    2 people marked this as a favorite.
    Scintillae wrote:
    Freehold DM wrote:
    Sissyl wrote:
    Sure, there is worse in fantasy. Now find me one such book that has a) been marketed explicitly at teenagers and b) 20 M+ copies sold.
    harry potter.
    I will duel you over this, sir.

    just say something witty before you kick me off of your sword and into the 6 foot deep hole that i failed to notice was behind me the whole time.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    NobodysHome wrote:
    Freehold DM wrote:
    Scintillae wrote:
    NobodysHome wrote:
    Sissyl wrote:
    But not every genre has something so vile as an ancient stalker as the love interest, which Twilight has. Certainly, fantasy has its fair share of offputting heroes, Thomas Covenant comes to mind for fantasy, but he at least isn't portrayed as a male ideal...

    Hey, utterly vile, dislikable male love interests are not restricted to modern writing.

    Relevant
    seen this so many times in real life it is disgusting...

    When we were in high school, my friend and I coined the term, "A*****e Dazzle" to describe the inexplicable attraction otherwise perfectly-nice, perfectly-intelligent young women had towards abusive men.

    The worst part? My friend in question started treating girls like dirt as a result. And was suddenly one of the most popular "eligible boys" in high school. (I stopped associating with him as a result. I couldn't stomach the way he was treating women I liked and respected.) I did not choose that route, and ended up not having a single girlfriend in high school. Once I got my mohawk and leather jacket, I became far more popular, and went from "never been kissed" at 17 to "in a permanent relationship" at 20.

    Women like dangerous men...

    it's disturbing how well that works.


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    It's always fun when an advertisement comes on and you wonder, "What the **** were the marketing people thinking?!?!?!"

    COMMERCIAL:
    ...insipid pop song comes on. Seriously, not even a major artist or a popular song. Just a fricking jingle written specifically for the commercial...

    ...music fades into the background...
    "If you like this song, then you have good taste in music."

    You know, in my entire lifetime, I have never found a single song that would allow me to determine whether or not someone had good taste in music, or even tastes that match mine. The massive, appalling gall to try to state something like that could only come from the mind of a marketer. And for that person to further make such a claim over a house-written jingle... the mind shudders.

    "And if you like <Our Product>, you have great taste in sodas..."

    In other words, if I apply the same convoluted, sentience-bending logic that a single song could determine someone's overall taste in music, and even further determine whether such taste is "good" or "bad", I can determine that this soda is "good".

    I'll pass, thanks.

    The best part? I'm old. I listen to the '80s oldies station. Nothing but songs recorded in the '80s. They even have Martha Quinn as a DJ.
    And the song in question on the commercial? Some of the most insipid modern pop I've ever heard. Any child of the '80s would despise it.

    Nice going, marketers! A bad idea for a commercial in the first place, aired on one of the worst possible stations for it. As usual, marketers impress me beyond all expectations of horrificness...


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    Murderers routinely get tons of love letters in prison. Just sayin'.


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    Trying on my new Levis for fit just before a meeting... and wondering whether, for the first time in my long at-home career, I should try hosting a meeting with no pants on...


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    The biggest success of marketing is selling marketers to businesses.


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    Cap'n Yesterdays Winter Madness wrote:

    I dare anyone, anyone at all to hit me in the torso with a club.

    With my winter layers I'm currently wearing 25 pounds of padded armor.

    I'm practically indestructible!

    Sneaks in, turns Freehold's weather dominator half a degree up, sneaks out.

    You were saying?


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Freehold DM wrote:
    NobodysHome wrote:

    Women like dangerous men...

    it's disturbing how well that works.

    Hmmmm. That must be the catch . . . .

    Been all "kinder, gentler Syrus" for too long.

    lol


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Sissyl wrote:
    Murderers routinely get tons of love letters in prison. Just sayin'.

    The Draco in Leather Pants effect (no TVTropes link, you're free to look it up yourselves).

    The fascination with "the bad" and how it's really "just misunderstood" is a very weird thing, and I'm guessing has to do with our ability to empathize and rationalize, which is turned into a weird idolization and/or fetish.


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    I did very well for myself romantically in high school by being the mysterious new kid in town with long hair.


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    NobodysHome wrote:

    Yesterday was an interesting eye-opener about the changing cooking of our times.

    I needed molasses.
    2.5 gallons of molasses, to be precise.

    When I was a kid, molasses was a staple sweetener: Gingerbread, popcorn balls, and many, many other baked goods that wanted that rich, earthy sweetness.
    Nowadays, it's hard to find in larger than a 12-ounce bottle.

    Costco trip: No molasses at all.
    Andronico's: Nothing but 12-ounce bottles, but they pointed me towards TJ's and their "1 liter bottle"
    Trader Joe's: Nothing but 15-ounce bottles, and that after being told by the first guy that they didn't have any at all. And enough dust on the bottles to know that it wasn't exactly a fast mover.

    So 120 ounces purchased, 200 to go, and it looks like I'm going to have to empty Andronico's shelves of the stuff.

    Don't people do Christmas baking any more? Doesn't most winter baking involve molasses?

    Dafuq? I do plenty of Christmas baking and I barely go through two of those 12 oz glass jars in a season. How much gingerbread are you making?!?! o.O


    2 people marked this as a favorite.
    Scintillae wrote:
    50 Shades at least knew what it was and was not expressly marketed to impressionable tweens.

    This. I gave up on 50 shades partway through. I threw it at a wall for crimes against grammar. But it was honestly better than Twilight.

    Twilight is one of the few books I've given up on because it was too disturbing. The emotionally abusive relationship at the center of it is so freaking disturbing that I just couldn't. Like, no. This is not even trashy romance novel bad. I read plenty of those. Those are fun. This was not fun. This was normalizing behavior that should be understood to be badwrongnono. *shudder* Yeah, no thanks.
    That said, the grammar mistakes are no worse than most YA novels. I have no issues with the writing. It's not good, but so what. And the world building was actually rather clever. Too bad it was wasted on such an awful story. I would have enjoyed the series if I hadn't been too creeped out by it to finish even the first book.


    2 people marked this as a favorite.
    Scintillae wrote:
    NobodysHome wrote:
    Sissyl wrote:
    But not every genre has something so vile as an ancient stalker as the love interest, which Twilight has. Certainly, fantasy has its fair share of offputting heroes, Thomas Covenant comes to mind for fantasy, but he at least isn't portrayed as a male ideal...

    Hey, utterly vile, dislikable male love interests are not restricted to modern writing.

    Relevant

    lol. Nearly spit my tea all over the keyboard. And definitely got funny looks for laughing so much in a coffee shop. :)


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    So you ARE the target audience for a Bella's felted w...

    What's that? Talk about something else? Anything else?

    Okay. I guess.

    Regarding abusive relationships and love letters to murderers in prison, I believe many mistake aggression and violent behaviour in men for strength and being protective. Another part is that if someone treats you badly, they must have higher status than you do - which is attractive in all its weird dysfunctionality.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    lynora wrote:
    NobodysHome wrote:

    Yesterday was an interesting eye-opener about the changing cooking of our times.

    I needed molasses.
    2.5 gallons of molasses, to be precise.

    When I was a kid, molasses was a staple sweetener: Gingerbread, popcorn balls, and many, many other baked goods that wanted that rich, earthy sweetness.
    Nowadays, it's hard to find in larger than a 12-ounce bottle.

    Costco trip: No molasses at all.
    Andronico's: Nothing but 12-ounce bottles, but they pointed me towards TJ's and their "1 liter bottle"
    Trader Joe's: Nothing but 15-ounce bottles, and that after being told by the first guy that they didn't have any at all. And enough dust on the bottles to know that it wasn't exactly a fast mover.

    So 120 ounces purchased, 200 to go, and it looks like I'm going to have to empty Andronico's shelves of the stuff.

    Don't people do Christmas baking any more? Doesn't most winter baking involve molasses?

    Dafuq? I do plenty of Christmas baking and I barely go through two of those 12 oz glass jars in a season. How much gingerbread are you making?!?! o.O

    Enough for 400 or so. It's the high school's final madrigal performance. Something like 3 shows at 100-150 people per show.


    2 people marked this as a favorite.
    NobodysHome wrote:
    lynora wrote:
    NobodysHome wrote:

    Yesterday was an interesting eye-opener about the changing cooking of our times.

    I needed molasses.
    2.5 gallons of molasses, to be precise.

    When I was a kid, molasses was a staple sweetener: Gingerbread, popcorn balls, and many, many other baked goods that wanted that rich, earthy sweetness.
    Nowadays, it's hard to find in larger than a 12-ounce bottle.

    Costco trip: No molasses at all.
    Andronico's: Nothing but 12-ounce bottles, but they pointed me towards TJ's and their "1 liter bottle"
    Trader Joe's: Nothing but 15-ounce bottles, and that after being told by the first guy that they didn't have any at all. And enough dust on the bottles to know that it wasn't exactly a fast mover.

    So 120 ounces purchased, 200 to go, and it looks like I'm going to have to empty Andronico's shelves of the stuff.

    Don't people do Christmas baking any more? Doesn't most winter baking involve molasses?

    Dafuq? I do plenty of Christmas baking and I barely go through two of those 12 oz glass jars in a season. How much gingerbread are you making?!?! o.O
    Enough for 400 or so. It's the high school's final madrigal performance. Something like 3 shows at 100-150 people per show.

    Isn't that what caterers are for.


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    Berkeley Bowl sells liter bottles of molasses.
    But I would try a chain that supplies restaurants, like Cash and Carry at the south end of Jack London square area, or Smart and Final.
    Also try Spun Sugar on University Avenue... they sell baking ingredients in bulk.

    (Probably googling phone numbers and calling first.)


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Sissyl wrote:

    Hey, why you hatin' on Norm??? :)

    If we call the Gor novels fantasy, which is a big if. The typical trashy fantasy romance has the hero rescue the love interest, deserve her love by his courage and prowess. Agreed, it's silly and stupid, but even that is better than "I am an ancient vampire, and I chase after teenage girls because I can. I really like watching them sleep, and feel very protective of them, and eventually I marry one of them, make her pregnant, and turn her into an undead monster like myself..."

    Hating? On wonderful Wonder Norm? Not at all, though they are very silly books indeed, let's be honest.

    And I suppose it's Sword & Planet rather than fantasy per se, although people generally accept the Barsoom novels as part of the canon, and the Gor books are basically John Carter with extra spankings and psionic beetle men, in space.

    Tarl Cabot's a git, too, though as you say, not as unpleasant as Creepy Vampire Man. Carter's much more admirable, Confederate officer or no.


    6 people marked this as a favorite.
    NobodysHome wrote:
    Freehold DM wrote:
    Scintillae wrote:
    NobodysHome wrote:
    Sissyl wrote:
    But not every genre has something so vile as an ancient stalker as the love interest, which Twilight has. Certainly, fantasy has its fair share of offputting heroes, Thomas Covenant comes to mind for fantasy, but he at least isn't portrayed as a male ideal...

    Hey, utterly vile, dislikable male love interests are not restricted to modern writing.

    Relevant
    seen this so many times in real life it is disgusting...

    When we were in high school, my friend and I coined the term, "A*****e Dazzle" to describe the inexplicable attraction otherwise perfectly-nice, perfectly-intelligent young women had towards abusive men.

    The worst part? My friend in question started treating girls like dirt as a result. And was suddenly one of the most popular "eligible boys" in high school. (I stopped associating with him as a result. I couldn't stomach the way he was treating women I liked and respected.) I did not choose that route, and ended up not having a single girlfriend in high school. Once I got my mohawk and leather jacket, I became far more popular, and went from "never been kissed" at 17 to "in a permanent relationship" at 20.

    Women like dangerous men...

    No. Just....No. :/

    I've had this argument with my husband too. It's the whole stupid why don't women like nice guys fallacy. Who gets to define nice guy in this scenario? Because I've known plenty of guys who were convinced they were nice while stalking and leering at very uncomfortable girls who put them in a very, very different category. :(
    I'm not saying that this was your experience or that you were behaving that way. I'm saying that you have two groups with very different perceptions of nice and these generalizations hurt both sides. If we're using high school examples, the loud obnoxious guy who was always in trouble but went out of his way to make sure I was never left alone with the teacher who was sexually harassing me? Nice guy. The polite, quiet nerdy boy who practically drooled when he was talking to me and looked down my shirt almost as much as they creepy teacher? Total creep.
    It's like that line in the Social Network: "You're going to go through your life thinking that women don't like you because you're a nerd. And I want to tell you from the bottom of my heart, that won't be true. It'll be because you're an a@!*&%*."
    Basically perspective makes a huge difference to how the same situation can be viewed. Do some girls like dangerous? Yeah. But it's not as cut and dry as that.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    NobodysHome wrote:
    lynora wrote:
    NobodysHome wrote:

    Yesterday was an interesting eye-opener about the changing cooking of our times.

    I needed molasses.
    2.5 gallons of molasses, to be precise.

    When I was a kid, molasses was a staple sweetener: Gingerbread, popcorn balls, and many, many other baked goods that wanted that rich, earthy sweetness.
    Nowadays, it's hard to find in larger than a 12-ounce bottle.

    Costco trip: No molasses at all.
    Andronico's: Nothing but 12-ounce bottles, but they pointed me towards TJ's and their "1 liter bottle"
    Trader Joe's: Nothing but 15-ounce bottles, and that after being told by the first guy that they didn't have any at all. And enough dust on the bottles to know that it wasn't exactly a fast mover.

    So 120 ounces purchased, 200 to go, and it looks like I'm going to have to empty Andronico's shelves of the stuff.

    Don't people do Christmas baking any more? Doesn't most winter baking involve molasses?

    Dafuq? I do plenty of Christmas baking and I barely go through two of those 12 oz glass jars in a season. How much gingerbread are you making?!?! o.O
    Enough for 400 or so. It's the high school's final madrigal performance. Something like 3 shows at 100-150 people per show.

    Well, that explains it....that's more restaurant supply level, not so much what you would expect stores to carry for home bakers. :)


    3 people marked this as a favorite.

    A collection of "Edward's best". If you can call it that. I am particularly fond of "I feel very protective of you...".


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    I've never understood the "women and bad boys" fascination. Granted, I didn't even start dating till after college. Maybe I missed a window?


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    For more fun frothy romance novels, I recommend Kristen Painter's Nocturne Falls series. It's cliched and doesn't really take itself seriously at all. But....the spelling and grammar are actually pretty good. And the main conflicts between the lead characters are usually solved by....sitting down and talking things over like adults. With the alpha male characters....respecting the female lead's abilities and not getting in her way when she knows more about a situation than he does. It's incredibly refreshing and a total departure from the usually frustrating romance novel trope where the characters spend most of the book getting in their own way because they won't just sit down and talk or trust the person they're interested in.
    Not that most of you bother with that genre, but hey, I call out when a book or author is especially bad, so might as well call out the good ones too. ^.^


    2 people marked this as a favorite.
    lynora wrote:

    For more fun frothy romance novels, I recommend Kristen Painter's Nocturne Falls series. It's cliched and doesn't really take itself seriously at all. But....the spelling and grammar are actually pretty good. And the main conflicts between the lead characters are usually solved by....sitting down and talking things over like adults. With the alpha male characters....respecting the female lead's abilities and not getting in her way when she knows more about a situation than he does. It's incredibly refreshing and a total departure from the usually frustrating romance novel trope where the characters spend most of the book getting in their own way because they won't just sit down and talk or trust the person they're interested in.

    Not that most of you bother with that genre, but hey, I call out when a book or author is especially bad, so might as well call out the good ones too. ^.^

    That just sounds COMPLETELY unrealistic, lynora.


    4 people marked this as a favorite.
    lynora wrote:

    No. Just....No. :/

    I've had this argument with my husband too. It's the whole stupid why don't women like nice guys fallacy. Who gets to define nice guy in this scenario? Because I've known plenty of guys who were convinced they were nice while stalking and leering at very uncomfortable girls who put them in a very, very different category. :(
    I'm not saying that this was your experience or that you were behaving that way. I'm saying that you have two groups with very different perceptions of nice and these generalizations hurt both sides. If we're using high school examples, the loud obnoxious guy who was always in trouble but went out of his way to make sure I was never left alone with the teacher who was sexually harassing me? Nice guy. The polite, quiet nerdy boy who practically drooled when he was talking to me and looked down my shirt almost as much as they creepy teacher? Total creep.
    It's like that line in the Social Network: "You're going to go through your life thinking that women don't like you because you're a nerd. And I want to tell you from the bottom of my heart, that won't be true. It'll be because you're an a$$+$+#."
    Basically perspective makes a huge difference to how the same situation can be viewed. Do some girls like dangerous? Yeah. But it's not as cut and dry as that.

    Well, nothing is ever cut-and-dry, but here's a good example:

    "Hey, NH! I'm thinking of dating XXX. What do you think of him?"
    "He's a complete a$$hat. He acts really nice at first, but the moment he gets a chance he'll stab you in the back. Do not trust anything he says or does. He's a sleazebag."
    "Thanks!"

    They start dating less than a week later. Three months later, he's broken her heart after repeatedly cheating on her and then dumping her.

    "NobodysHome! Why didn't you TELL me about him?"

    Personally, I never tried to look down girls' shirts, or touch them in inappropriate ways. I was just friendly and treated them like people. And whenever I got the courage to ask, "Wanna go out?", I'd get, "You're too nice."
    And then I'd watch them date one of the biggest jerks in school.

    NobodysWife put it really well: These guys learn early how to act like the girl they're interested in is the most important person in the world. They're charming. They're thoughtful. They go out of their way to know what a girl wants. They're nigh-irresistable. Then once they get what they want, they grow bored and move on to their next victim. And I was always the male friend who ended up consoling my female friends as they cried and asked me, "Why didn't you warn me about him?"

    And I did. Every. Single. Time. And they never listened.

    And those of us who weren't predators never learned those behaviors, so came across like "brothers" rather than "lovers", hence always got the, "Nope, not interested" responses.

    EDIT: Honestly, looking back at my high school years, I think I played the role of the "stereotypical gay guy". Guys hated me. Girls loved me and wanted to hang around with me, but couldn't conceive of dating me. I think my core group of friends was 9 girls and 3 guys. But never a single date. Not even with the guys. :P


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Sissyl wrote:
    lynora wrote:

    For more fun frothy romance novels, I recommend Kristen Painter's Nocturne Falls series. It's cliched and doesn't really take itself seriously at all. But....the spelling and grammar are actually pretty good. And the main conflicts between the lead characters are usually solved by....sitting down and talking things over like adults. With the alpha male characters....respecting the female lead's abilities and not getting in her way when she knows more about a situation than he does. It's incredibly refreshing and a total departure from the usually frustrating romance novel trope where the characters spend most of the book getting in their own way because they won't just sit down and talk or trust the person they're interested in.

    Not that most of you bother with that genre, but hey, I call out when a book or author is especially bad, so might as well call out the good ones too. ^.^
    That just sounds COMPLETELY unrealistic, lynora.

    I know, right? I mean, duh, it's obviously a fantasy! ;P

    But it does make for fun reading. :)


    6 people marked this as a favorite.

    Gaaaaaaaaah.

    I told my history class that they were not allowed to use slideshows for their Industrial Revolution presentations (they've each been assigned an invention to research and present on) and had to find some other visual aid.

    So one of them, having picked the Langstroth hive, asked if he could bring in actual bees for his visual aid.

    ...I have a rather extreme phobia of bees and wasps. So...he not only got a "No;" he got a "No" at about three octaves higher than I thought my voice was capable of achieving.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    I just spent the past couple of hours re-skinning the old 3.5 Archmage Prestige Class into a Pathfinder compatible PrC. Since the term Archmage now has Mythic connotations, I call the Prc the Arcane Master. Everything else is basically the same, except the exact wording of the text.


    3 people marked this as a favorite.
    NobodysHome wrote:
    lynora wrote:

    No. Just....No. :/

    I've had this argument with my husband too. It's the whole stupid why don't women like nice guys fallacy. Who gets to define nice guy in this scenario? Because I've known plenty of guys who were convinced they were nice while stalking and leering at very uncomfortable girls who put them in a very, very different category. :(
    I'm not saying that this was your experience or that you were behaving that way. I'm saying that you have two groups with very different perceptions of nice and these generalizations hurt both sides. If we're using high school examples, the loud obnoxious guy who was always in trouble but went out of his way to make sure I was never left alone with the teacher who was sexually harassing me? Nice guy. The polite, quiet nerdy boy who practically drooled when he was talking to me and looked down my shirt almost as much as they creepy teacher? Total creep.
    It's like that line in the Social Network: "You're going to go through your life thinking that women don't like you because you're a nerd. And I want to tell you from the bottom of my heart, that won't be true. It'll be because you're an a$$+$+#."
    Basically perspective makes a huge difference to how the same situation can be viewed. Do some girls like dangerous? Yeah. But it's not as cut and dry as that.

    Well, nothing is ever cut-and-dry, but here's a good example:

    "Hey, NH! I'm thinking of dating XXX. What do you think of him?"
    "He's a complete a$$hat. He acts really nice at first, but the moment he gets a chance he'll stab you in the back. Do not trust anything he says or does. He's a sleazebag."
    "Thanks!"

    They start dating less than a week later. Three months later, he's broken her heart after repeatedly cheating on her and then dumping her.

    "NobodysHome! Why didn't you TELL me about him?"

    Personally, I never tried to look down girls' shirts, or touch them in inappropriate ways. I was just friendly and treated them like people. And whenever I got the courage to ask,...

    Yeah, this happens. Obviously, since this was your experience. And that sucks. But it's not really a good thing to then project that experience onto all women with generalizations like women don't like nice guys/women like jerks/ bad boys. Some women do. Some women like the idea of danger, or better yet the whole redemption story arc where they are going to 'fix' the guy and make him good again (the whole plot of 50 shades as far as I can tell). But it's a stereotype, not necessarily reality. And too often an excuse for not recognizing or fixing problematic behavior. So yeah, I have a problem with it being tossed around as a generalization.

    Just to be clear in case there are any misunderstandings, from my point of view this is a totally civil disagreement/discussion between friends. I'm not actually mad or anything. Totally calm here. Just arguing a point. :)


    lynora wrote:
    NobodysHome wrote:
    Freehold DM wrote:
    Scintillae wrote:
    NobodysHome wrote:
    Sissyl wrote:
    But not every genre has something so vile as an ancient stalker as the love interest, which Twilight has. Certainly, fantasy has its fair share of offputting heroes, Thomas Covenant comes to mind for fantasy, but he at least isn't portrayed as a male ideal...

    Hey, utterly vile, dislikable male love interests are not restricted to modern writing.

    Relevant
    seen this so many times in real life it is disgusting...

    When we were in high school, my friend and I coined the term, "A*****e Dazzle" to describe the inexplicable attraction otherwise perfectly-nice, perfectly-intelligent young women had towards abusive men.

    The worst part? My friend in question started treating girls like dirt as a result. And was suddenly one of the most popular "eligible boys" in high school. (I stopped associating with him as a result. I couldn't stomach the way he was treating women I liked and respected.) I did not choose that route, and ended up not having a single girlfriend in high school. Once I got my mohawk and leather jacket, I became far more popular, and went from "never been kissed" at 17 to "in a permanent relationship" at 20.

    Women like dangerous men...

    No. Just....No. :/

    I've had this argument with my husband too. It's the whole stupid why don't women like nice guys fallacy. Who gets to define nice guy in this scenario? Because I've known plenty of guys who were convinced they were nice while stalking and leering at very uncomfortable girls who put them in a very, very different category. :(
    I'm not saying that this was your experience or that you were behaving that way. I'm saying that you have two groups with very different perceptions of nice and these generalizations hurt both sides. If we're using high school examples, the...

    I've had to deal with female acquaintances, family friends and loved ones wondering why the guy who is ACTIVELY DEALING DRUGS AND COMMITTING ASSAULT but somehow isn't THAT bad(I have lost count of the times smitten women have told me "Group X" is not a gang! Or "Guy Y" is not in a gang! He just hangs out with them sometimes!!) somehow miraculously lost interest in them (sometimes after they got pregnant by him) too many times to take this with anything other than a grain of salt.

    It is indeed that cut and dried far, far too often in my experience. Your mileage clearly varies(we live in very different places), and im sorry if I come across too harsh as a result.


    So today I:
    - woke up
    - got kid and wife ready for their day
    - fed Eldest, got him and LF out the door
    - changed diaper, fed Youngest
    - posted here
    - fed Youngest
    - paid lots of attention to You test who was especially needy for it, today
    - posted here with a three year old crawling on my face
    - watched a YouTube video
    - fed Yuungest
    - put Youngest down for nap through many tears
    - napped myself (after failing to for a while in bed)
    - woke up barely in time to rush sleeping Youngest out the door to get Eldest from school
    - brought Eldest to doctor for follow-up; got more medicine, apparently
    - bright boys home
    - am watching my Eldest play Wind Waker
    - ... then forced him to practice violin

    I'm tired. I shouldn't be. I had a nap. Dang it.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    NobodysHome wrote:
    lynora wrote:

    No. Just....No. :/

    I've had this argument with my husband too. It's the whole stupid why don't women like nice guys fallacy. Who gets to define nice guy in this scenario? Because I've known plenty of guys who were convinced they were nice while stalking and leering at very uncomfortable girls who put them in a very, very different category. :(
    I'm not saying that this was your experience or that you were behaving that way. I'm saying that you have two groups with very different perceptions of nice and these generalizations hurt both sides. If we're using high school examples, the loud obnoxious guy who was always in trouble but went out of his way to make sure I was never left alone with the teacher who was sexually harassing me? Nice guy. The polite, quiet nerdy boy who practically drooled when he was talking to me and looked down my shirt almost as much as they creepy teacher? Total creep.
    It's like that line in the Social Network: "You're going to go through your life thinking that women don't like you because you're a nerd. And I want to tell you from the bottom of my heart, that won't be true. It'll be because you're an a$$+$+#."
    Basically perspective makes a huge difference to how the same situation can be viewed. Do some girls like dangerous? Yeah. But it's not as cut and dry as that.

    Well, nothing is ever cut-and-dry, but here's a good example:

    "Hey, NH! I'm thinking of dating XXX. What do you think of him?"
    "He's a complete a$$hat. He acts really nice at first, but the moment he gets a chance he'll stab you in the back. Do not trust anything he says or does. He's a sleazebag."
    "Thanks!"

    They start dating less than a week later. Three months later, he's broken her heart after repeatedly cheating on her and then dumping her.

    "NobodysHome! Why didn't you TELL me about him?"

    Personally, I never tried to look down girls' shirts, or touch them in inappropriate ways. I was just friendly and treated them like people. And whenever I got the courage to ask,...

    also, this.

    Except I did leer at girls when I was a teenager.


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    OMG! We're having a civil, intelligent discussion in FaWtL! Someone get the balloons, seltzer water, and a life-sized prop of Freehold to burn, surrounded by a phalanx of flying bicycles.

    Because why not?


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    NobodysHome wrote:

    OMG! We're having a civil, intelligent discussion in FaWtL! Someone get the balloons, seltzer water, and a life-sized prop of Freehold to burn, surrounded by a phalanx of flying bicycles.

    Because why not?

    ...why am i being burned in effigy?

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