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The example I was given was a man in Scotland who put sekrit water into his car and the car ran forever on sekrit water and everybody could get limitless sekrit water cars were it not for the Insiders suppressing the technology.
Renewable energy is a different matter - it's converting the energy from its original form, whatever it happens to be, into electricity where the expense and difficulty lies, IMO, so it isn't 'free' after everything's taken into account. Whether or not flaming bicycles are a renewable resource is something only Freehold & Fritzy can answer
we recycle.
I knew you were Captain Planet. I just KNEW IT.
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We're non profit yo!
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The example I was given was a man in Scotland who put sekrit water into his car and the car ran forever on sekrit water and everybody could get limitless sekrit water cars were it not for the Insiders suppressing the technology.
Renewable energy is a different matter - it's converting the energy from its original form, whatever it happens to be, into electricity where the expense and difficulty lies, IMO, so it isn't 'free' after everything's taken into account. Whether or not flaming bicycles are a renewable resource is something only Freehold & Fritzy can answer
we recycle.I knew you were Captain Planet. I just KNEW IT.
Was the secret water actually whisky, and had your friend been sampling it?
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It's been far too long since I last math'd out characters, making so many in short order and doing theorycrafting has proven a refreshing mental exercise.
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The example I was given was a man in Scotland who put sekrit water into his car and the car ran forever on sekrit water and everybody could get limitless sekrit water cars were it not for the Insiders suppressing the technology.
Renewable energy is a different matter - it's converting the energy from its original form, whatever it happens to be, into electricity where the expense and difficulty lies, IMO, so it isn't 'free' after everything's taken into account. Whether or not flaming bicycles are a renewable resource is something only Freehold & Fritzy can answer
we recycle.I knew you were Captain Planet. I just KNEW IT.
as I said once, be nice, or I'll turn you into a f@!#ing tree.
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My wife planned our first AZ wedding, so she has left me to me the joy of planning out our second NY wedding.
Ah, the funsies of having friends & families on opposite ends of the country...
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It's in my profile, but in case a few of you are lazy haven't been there, my friend's dad started us with 1st edition in 1974. We very soon thereafter were GM'ing for ourselves in all kinds of fun campaigns. Original Traveler? Did it! Original Runequest? Check! Original D&D? Yep!
AD&D came out and we abandoned D&D entirely in favor of Runequest 2. Then Champions, Shadowrun, Tunnels and Trolls, Bunnies and Burrows -- anything that wasn't D&D.
We didn't even look at D&D again until "Gamers: Dorkness Rising" came out and the kids insisted that they wanted to play D&D. We bought 4th edition. We were.... less than impressed.
So the local game store (Games of Berkeley) recommended Pathfinder.
And, in spite of all its faults, we've been addicted ever since.
As Shiro's player and I agree, the system is far too complex, too many of the feats and spells are poorly-written and open to interpretation, the Player's Companions break too many things, but it's STILL the best "high fantasy" RPG out there...
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My wife planned our first AZ wedding, so she has left me to me the joy of planning out our second NY wedding.
Ah, the funsies of having friends & families on opposite ends of the country...
CH! It's an open bar!! We gotta go!
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It's in my profile, but in case a few of you
are lazyhaven't been there, my friend's dad started us with 1st edition in 1974. We very soon thereafter were GM'ing for ourselves in all kinds of fun campaigns. Original Traveler? Did it! Original Runequest? Check! Original D&D? Yep!AD&D came out and we abandoned D&D entirely in favor of Runequest 2. Then Champions, Shadowrun, Tunnels and Trolls, Bunnies and Burrows -- anything that wasn't D&D.
We didn't even look at D&D again until "Gamers: Dorkness Rising" came out and the kids insisted that they wanted to play D&D. We bought 4th edition. We were.... less than impressed.
So the local game store (Games of Berkeley) recommended Pathfinder.
And, in spite of all its faults, we've been addicted ever since.
As Shiro's player and I agree, the system is far too complex, too many of the feats and spells are poorly-written and open to interpretation, the Player's Companions break too many things, but it's STILL the best "high fantasy" RPG out there...
I keep forgetting how old you are...
Fritzy! How we coming along on those tickets to that thing NH's wife loves?
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Fritzy! How we coming along on those tickets to that thing NH's wife loves?
The version with Grover from the Muppet Show was totally better.
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You know, I looked at that before, thought about something then did something else and completely forgot what it links to.
Only an hour until I should (but won't) leave for work to be on time, so can't look now.
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Off to the toy mines!
Hopefully I get to hug some giant pastel bunnies and safety check Fritzy's bikes.
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Off to the toy mines!
Hopefully I get to hug Fritzy's bikes and safety check some giant pastel bunnies.
Much better.
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Oh, and for those desperately waiting to hear how "that rich so-and-so" NobodysHome's taxes went, we're getting hit pretty hard in April. Fortunately, I kind of figured we would, so I've already started a savings account to pay for it.
Kind of like sending the kids to college, except far harder to understand than anything they teach there.
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And now, for now reason I can determine, a very long conversation that FaWtL just had.
Maybe it's that I get called a hero.
Maybe it's just an easy way to mark these ideas so that I can use them later.
I don't know.
But here it is, nonetheless.
I need help.
I committed a bad n00b GM error yesterday.
We had finished up a Beginner Box extension module and were in Sandpoint doing wrap-up and level-up. The last thing the module tells you is that the Orc Boss has a message on him in Orcish. The party gives it to Mayor Kendra, she gets a wizard to come in and translate it, and the party asks, "What does it say?"
I realize I hadn't decided what I would tell the party yet.
I look down at the two options on the sheet in front of me, and I see
"Maybe it’s not a message from the orc chieftain, but instead it’s orders from a rogue wizard who was recently banished from Sandpoint for practicing necromancy…one who promises that he will use his knowledge of the area (and an army of the undead) to help the orcs to once and for all destroy the town?"
So I decide, "Hey, yeah, that looks cool," and I run with it.
My Kindergartener asks, "What's necromancy?"
I explain, gently.
My almost-four-year-old says, "Cool! Let's kill it!"
My husband does the Snoopy eyebrows look he does when he feels I've made a reckless decision.
I try to punt, but I'm feeling panicked and my brain and my mouth are on different wavelengths. I ramble on a bit about how Sherriff Hemlock is going to send a squad to scout out the wizard's camp with a couple of mages from Turondarok Academy and report back in a few days' time, and sent the party on yet another random ancillary module to continue to boost up a bit.
NOW WHAT DO I DO?!?
Clarification: Are you trying to avoid exposing them to undead, or do you not have anything prepped?
Rise of the Runelords:I can loan you Rise of the Runelords, which has a simple little insane asylum with a necromancer hiding in the basement, but it is a bit graphic for the kids. You'd have to tone things down a bit. Maybe a "rest home". But it's got half-orc bouncers you could change to orcs, so in a pinch it might work.If you want to avoid undead entirely, I recommend skeletons. Gore-free, still undead, and most young ones love hitting them with sticks because of the satisfying clacking.
Skeletons are okay.
Concerns are:
1. Nightmares.
2. Party readiness (they're 3rd level.)
Curse of the Crimson Throne:Remember that crazy little derro you guys fought in the cave at the end of Book 1? He wasn't a necromancer, but he had a Robe of Bones that let him throw skeletons and zombies at people. And I think if his appearance doesn't creep them out, the kids'd love whacking on a derro.Also, Lesser Animate Dead is a 2nd-level cleric spell. Maybe this guy is actually just an evil 3rd-level cleric. The party would clean his clock easily.
Just 'cause he dresses in robes and cackles maniacally doesn't make him powerful. Just ask Captain Yesterday!
I'm afraid I can't help with the nightmares...
Oh, and since you're back online and we're e-mailing back and forth, don't forget I have all the APs, most in both PDF and hard copy, so if you want to borrow something a bit more robust you're welcome to any of them.
The kid-friendly AP threads all point at Legacy of Fire as a good, Arabian Knights-themed one, though I'm posting on FaWtL because these people are both silly and wise, and may have better, more recent suggestions. (I know Captain Yesterday was having all kinds of fun with his kids in Iron Gods -- a sci-fi crossover AP.)
You've seen my bookcase. Feel free to borrow freely. For free?
(the other idea)Re: lisamarlene and NH's suggestion - he basically stole the one I was going to add, but, if you need a backstory about how a 3rd level cleric could have such a powerful robe, it's actually not too hard to justify. Simply have an actual necromancer that cray-cray blue-beard is a disciple of, say, a skeletal champion, or something, and have that guy (a crafter-cleric, naturally) have given these robes to his disciples before leaving to follow his master - a bonafide lich - into the great beyond.
The entire purpose was some sort of insane scheme of ever-weaker-undead, and since you can't have non-sentient disciples, skeletal champion dude was like, "Yeah, cool, we stop here."
That probably doesn't stop the ugly evil sm***-like figure from calling the mindless skeletons his "disciples" though - remember, they're all insane.
Also could help if the skellies are dancers, maybe play the soundtrack to Crypt of the Necrodancer*, or, if that's not a good style, something more like Marley and Marley or Shiver My Timbers - - or, if you think they'd like it (and you're okay with some of old-school Disney's more macabre stuff), the Silly Symphonies - The Skeleton Dance, and certainly describing antics like one of them riding another that's upside-down, like a pogo stick, or playing their own ribs like xylophones could be funny enough to distract from the macabre or scary nature.
Tacticslion is my hero.
I'm seeing something like "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" here (they loved Fantasia, so they will understand that the student was greedy, wanted to do things he wasn't ready to handle, didn't understand why it wasn't okay, then threw a temper tantrum and stomped off to go study with (actual necromancer), who had died and left his stuff lying about, so this wanna-be Emo Kylo Ren tries to use the old wizard's robe and staff and books but mistranslates key words of the spells, causing them to turn out not quite right in a funny way. Like the skeleton captain is supposed to have weapon mastery longsword, but is given mastery of long-word instead. But since skeletons can't actually talk, it just stands there, flapping its jawbone up and down and gesticulating wildly, trying to communicate. The only orcs that follow it are outcast orcs that washed out of their own tribes for random reasons who are impressed by the fancy trappings.
[Adds cape]
:) Go for it!!!
By the way, many of us here on the boards are GMs, so we really have no problems in bashing out solutions for fellow GMs. Just ask, any of us would be glad to help out. :)
Had a hunch that might be the case.
btw, I really liked your skip code suggestion. I've wanted to use that trope ever since I read the Addams Family tv show novelization (sadly lost now) that made a skip code out of a horrid poem about primroses.
But, because I was extemporizing wildly, I can't for the life of me remember what I said well enough to try to do that this time.
Good enough. Just keep that idea in your Box of GM tricks. Remember the first law of Misdirection, "Not everything may be as it seems."
By the way, I really like your idea of a failed apprentice.
Lisamarlene, just had a brilliantly wicked idea. A skip code where 'n' is a successive prime number.
Oh, by the way. I've been a Player/GM since 1988. So I've got a lot of experience, no pun intended.
You could also apply Secret Page to hide the content of your messages. :)
Muwahahahah~!
EDIT: added a quote I accidentally missed
No cats! Allergies.
Yyyyyuuuuuuuuuuup. I'm with you.
Hairless cats, then.
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Yeah, it's funny -- our little fluffernutter could double as a dust mop. But SHE is a hypoallergenic breed, or at least extremely low allergen (ragamuffin).
Little miss hates the world is a calico, and takes joy in the pain and suffering she causes you, short hair notwithstanding.
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So far I've gone twenty minutes without actually doing anything.
Check that. I just now got a battery for my printer.
And I registered for alerts (in case any bikes need to be hugged).
Since 1982. Totally skipped 3.0 and caught the tail end of 3.5.
3.5 is the better of the two, in my opinion.
*Gets dressed*
Agreed. The question of, "Which is better?" between PF and 3.5 is going to have to ask, "At what?"
3.5 is much simpler and thus easier to clarify, comprehend, and explain. But PF brings some much needed flavor-features, and provides some level of hypothetical balance (though it removes others).
3rd is... not balanced; I say this as someone that, yes, does love 3.5 and PF.
There are elements of it that are better, certainly, than 3.5 or PF, but, for the most part, it's a kind of beautiful wreck. It plays less smoothly, and is weakened by it's own "still trying to figure out our own system" approach.
Another pretty solid system-and-setting (one that you might want to try, NH!) is Blue Rose (by Green Ronin). The setting is almost aggressively inclusive (not a bad thing), and it also focuses on the "romantic fantasy" idealism, more than the (relatively) myth/grit/kill/loot of D&D.
It's definitely not perfect - - but it's a solid system I like and plan on stealing "taking inspiration from" in my own games (you can see some similar sets of mechanical ideas in Star Wars d20, though the two are very different).
Anyway, that's my blah-blah on the things.
Do they not play Minecraft?
I just make a joke about how it "dropped rotten flesh" (which is, evidently, a Minecraft term) and move on.
If you're super casual or move it long quickly they usually won't pick up on anything.
Too little for Minecraft. We have a "no video games or apps until 1st grade, and even then you will have to spend at least as much time reading, playing out-of-doors, and doing something constructive with your hands as you do on your screen" rule.
To which my daughter has already remarked, "Yeah, but YOU don't follow that rule."
*mutters something about lousy other people being better parents*
>.>
One man's flavor features are another man's useless widgets.
Very fair.
Mostly, I mean things like favored class bonuses (as opposed to favored class lacking XP penalty), bloodlines instead of "strictly inferior spellcasting, and that's it" and a few nice features for fighters.
I don't think wizards needed the help, I agree that bravery is less-than-awesome, and wish the fighter weapon groups were more like ranger favored enemies, and I really wanted the CMB/CMD to math a little better than it does... but, you know. It's stuff.
Also, there are skill consolidations, which are cool - unfortunately, wizards are still helped.
3.5 is unquestionably the more "immersive" of the systems, because everything in that system - whether XP, negative levels, or whatever - is "real" and can be "accessed" through the rules system itself. Nothing is merely an abstraction, or game mechanic.
That's pretty much the super-awesome feature of the system. It exists, and is real, and self-fulfilling in immersive nature. PF is substantially more "game"-y and that's a weakness and strength.
I definitely agree about the fiddly bits, though.
("Why would this be a restricted 15th level-only bloodline power, when I can literally use a 1st level spell that's better in every way?!" :/)
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Bummer! No toy propaganda this month. Yet. The month is still young...
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Who would be afraid of these?
Or take them seriously anyway.
But to be honest I am not entirely sure that ROTR is a good idea for young players. Book 2 and 3 need to be toned down a LOT. Or don't give descriptions of the rooms.
I mean it didn't gross me etc, but again, I stopped being bothered about that kind of thing since I was 7...I'd say too much time spent in the kitchen.
Once you've chopped stuff up, one body is pretty much like another.
I'd have tried jade regent, without caravan rules.
I honestly would forget to apply favored class bonuses and pick traits if Hero Lab didn't yell at me about them.
That can definitely be a thing.
It's funny - campaign traits have quickly become one of my favorite things, but there are so many silly, fiddly, repetitious, and just not-very-good (or OP or whatever) other traits, that I, too, just kind of forget about them.
There are so many, it's hard to summon the enthusiasm to sift through them all.
I believe there was a mistake made categorizing them the way they did, and mandating that you have to choose only two, and they have to come from different categories.
I understand why, and it's very understandable - it's to minimize min/max and absurd combos, but also to make the character feel more well-rounded - but it's a mistake because, by now, there are just too many, and several do the same things, even in different categories... or the same category... or don't actually do what the title of the trait seems to imply that they do... or happen to be named the same as another trait but are juuuuuussssst fiddly-different (in minor ways) enough that they can't be the same thing...
Anyway, were it me, I'd love it if they made fewer named traits, and just gave various bonuses that could be chosen for each trait so-granted. Maybe with a few alternate titles for the same trait.
So, "Charming" could be "Alluring" could be "Honeyed Tongue" could be "Honeyed Words" could be "Honey Tongued" (but could never be Honeyed Tongue >.>), could be "Affable" could be "Gregarious" or any other number of 'similar' things.
Then you could choose from a list of available "boons" that the trait could give.
Honestly, I find the feat situation to be similar. There's too many fiddly bits that are similar-but-different so that it's a slog to get through, even though I like the concept in-principle.
That, of all things, is one of the main reasons I'd want a "second edition" - simply rebuild the Core with a kind of "best of" selection of classes, feats, traits, concepts, and similar ideas, (sort of doing the whole sorting deal for you, in advance) and move forward from there. But I know that's not happening any time too soon. :)
That said, though I've seen it a ton of times, I finally understand PF's very straight-forward-XP-budget-for-multiple-creatures systems (though this feels familiar enough that I might have discovered this before, and ignored it or forgotten). I've been so stuck in 3.X's "double the number for current CR+2" I'd kind of just forgotten that PF does it with, "Take the XP each creature is worth; find out what the XP for a CR-appropriate encounter is; put a number of creatures with the sum XP-value into the slot to take advantage of that CR's XP-value."
Frankly, that's a pretty slick method of doing it, and, from several tests, I actually get the same number of monsters as the old ways, but it permits a greater variety and more easily understood combinations.
That said, it feels more "float-y" than the old system, and may well be less balanced, over-all; especially since the old system cut you off from XP-gains as you surpassed "encounters" of a certain CR below your level or less.
Still, cool concept.
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I don't know who, or what made the boards disappear from the main page. But I want to just say it wasn't me.
I (conveniently) have an alibi.
Who would be afraid of these?
Or take them seriously anyway.
Heh!
But to be honest I am not entirely sure that ROTR is a good idea for young players. Book 2 and 3 need to be toned down a LOT. Or don't give descriptions of the rooms.
I mean it didn't gross me etc, but again, I stopped being bothered about that kind of thing since I was 7...I'd say too much time spent in the kitchen.
Once you've chopped stuff up, one body is pretty much like another.
I'd have tried jade regent, without caravan rules.
Yeah, that's why I said, "Heavily Edited" - basically books two and three could not be run as-written, for kids. You could run them, "And then there were bad things!" but the books are written in such a way as to... make things clear that could be disturbing, even for some adults. Not just gore, but all sorts of things, from intimacy, betrayals, and others.
I do think that the bones of both adventures could be pretty great, even for kids, but you're going to want to eliminate some encounters, entirely change how you describe things and a few key features of the adventures, and definitely not show them many of the pictures (some of which are mild or irrelevant, but some of which could be deeply terrifying).
I've perused JR, and once even started to prep to run it, but never enough to really recommend for or against it for kids.
Mostly RotR came to mind because I'm running it right now... kind of twice. (Well, we'll hopefully be getting to the second iteration soon-ish... *looks at a kitty*)
EDIT: to be clear, they're actually waiting on me, as GM, right now. My concentration is shot, though, from not getting sleep last night, so. Hence, my "looks at kitty" was a joke. :)
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I avoided mentioning JR because we're just wrapping it up with my small group and it's honestly not a very good AP, unless you love all things Asian.
The caravan rules are clunky (we discarded them), Book 2 is an unbelievable mishmash of non-sequiturs so mashed up together that you can't run the book seriously ("Yeah!!! We'll put a ninja fortress! In viking lands! Vikings and ninjas! And maybe pirates!"). I'm surprised Book 2 doesn't have space ships. And it has other just plain awfulness. Did I mention I hated Book 2? Book 3 is a tedious grind, with a lot more of the whole, "You can do 1, 2, or 3" "OK, we do 2" "I lied! You can only do 3!" variety.
They finally try to pull things out of the fire with a very fun Book 4 and a middling Book 5 that could have been much better, but if your players are still clinging to hope after Books 2 and 3 I admire them.
Oh, did I mention I didn't like Jade Regent all that much?
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Jade Regent is fun for kids, especially the second and third part.
As long as you completely scrap the caravan rules. Though still assign caravan roles, as those are good times.
Like when the General's gnome witch insisted on being the cook, despite having no ranks in profession (cook) and they regularly butchered what they kill.
If you need Ogre or Dire Corby recipes, lemme know. :-)
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My wife planned our first AZ wedding, so she has left me to me the joy of planning out our second NY wedding.
Ah, the funsies of having friends & families on opposite ends of the country...
CH! It's an open bar!! We gotta go!
It'll be halfway to Albany, but you and CH are totally welcome to come crash my wedding!
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Tacticslion, you are a hero.
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Tacticslion, you are a hero.
D
EDIT: to clarify something, that may have been obvious, but might not have been.
He was Ravenous.
He was also half-way to being a Ravener-template creature... he just needed to starve to death, first...
EDIT: dangit, coding!
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White dwarfs are nice but red dwarf is far more entertaining.
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So... I just found out my mother has cancer. It is still uncertain what the prognosis is. I... think I could use a hug, if anyone's got some to spare.
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*hugs*
Hey just remember cancer treatment has come a long way and is improving everyday.
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So... I just found out my mother has cancer. It is still uncertain what the prognosis is. I... think I could use a hug, if anyone's got some to spare.
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My warm hugs will only melt the ice cream.
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Believe it or not, but the first RPG I learned how to play wasn't D&D, but Classic Traveller. I was about ten when Star Wars first hit the theaters, so you can imagine the impact of seeing a Star Destroyer for the first time has on an imaginative young boy. Since then, I've always had a fondness for the Big Ships. Especially warships. And I've gotten good at designing them in various RPGs. Sooo looking forward for Starfinder and Aethera. :)
I LOVED Traveller, in part because the person running it was exceptional. We had a 2 year campaign in the late 80s.
If you like 'big ships' and who doesn't, when your in New York next, let's grab Freehold and let's punish your butt play Star Wars Armada, I simply love the game.
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Sorry Sissyl, that sucks!
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Sissyl, that sucks. :(
Here's hoping the prognosis is as good as possible. Positive waves to you and your mom.
And if you ever need to just rant about it all I am happy to listen.
*hugs*