Lady Rosiline Mistandre, Razor of Crownsgate


Round 3: Design a villain

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Grand Lodge Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

Steel_Wind wrote:
Starglim wrote:
As far as I can see, it doesn't even list Thom's evolutions. This would make a GM's work harder in an adventure.
So let's not overdramatize this issue. The fact we don't have en Eidolon stat block which describes that ONE unaccounted for evolution point is a function of word count.

I'm not worried about evolution points and certainly I don't disagree that the instructions allowed the eidolon as a single special ability citation.

The instructions didn't require this style either, making it a matter for the designer's judgement. I want rules about a major aspect of this concept and how it would work in play. The author's choice as to how he spent his word count leaves a gap in the stat block, in comparison to the prose section, and plays down the statistical side of this round in a way that concerns me.

Star Voter Season 6

Outstanding work. Great twist on the ripper investigation route, leading to all sorts of fun possibilities.

Star Voter Season 8

Yeah it is honestly a minor point over all (about the eidolon being or not being there), however for future reference it is fairly important as a point in a villains favor. It certainly didn't cost my vote but it is annoying to not have.

This might be a decent area for a "quick" template that shares just the variable information for such creatures. Something that merely covers what type it is (for animal companions), what feats it has, where the stat points go (if it gets any) and what equipment it has. With those few pieces of information everything else is cake.

I do feel it's a bit of a cheat to be able to skip such a vital piece of the villain when you can't do the same for spells prepared or known, or weapon training on a fighter or what not. However I understand why it was set up as it by the judges.


I´d just note that other Villains had Animal Companions which didn´t have ANY stats either, yet nobody has even mentioned that fact... While the Animal Companions perhaps weren´t as central to the theme as the Eidolon is here, TECHNICALLY they are more or less equivalent (Eidolons are essentially like uber-Customizable Animal Companions, both are Class Features), so I don´t see any TECHINICAL violation here at all.

I think it´s pretty obvious that having to stat out either an Animal Companion or Eidolon or Familiar would pretty much effectively rule-out any Ranger/Druid/Cavalier/Paladin/Summoner/Arcane Familiar builds (which is roughly half the Core Classes). Obviously, those classes aren´t barred by the competition rules, and the rules state that class abilities (like Eidolon/Companion) can be summarized with a single reference. ALL of those classes would need extra work from a GM to actually run an encounter just using the given stat-block... Fortunately, we´re not ACTUALLY doing that, but are simply judging the stat-block, presumably on accomplishing the given task (which doesn´t include statting out companions/eidolons/familiars).

I don´t know if that changes how people vote, but I´d just thought I´d mention that.

The Exchange Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9

I think this character is my favorite for the round. Lots of hooks can be created around her, and she can evolve into a recurring villain. Well done, and good luck on Monday. I will be one of the many who are voting for this one.

Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

Love this villain; definitely my favorite by far. I could see so many ways and places to use her- from Ravenloft to Glantri to just about any campaign setting. You've got my vote.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8 aka Benchak the Nightstalker

Sean, excellent work in round 3! I love love LOVE this villain! Best entry this round, easily.


You got one of my votes

I loved the idea (if not the execution) of a dream summoner. It seems to me that the summoner class BEGS for a dream archetype. The word eidolon means an "image of an ideal", or an "unsubstantial apparition". What are dreams, if not unsubstantial figments of your imagination?

Now, while I can't give you credit for creating the archetype, I love the villain that you created using the archetype. The love-twist was awesome. I like my villains best with plausible motivations, and this concept works for me.

Scarab Sages

Ask A RPGSupersuccubus wrote:
...a possible angle does present itself to my mind in this situation: the succubus offers herself as a proxy to the noblewoman, to do the things she can't do, and to 'share' them empathically and telepathically with her afterwards. It's conceivable that this sort of offer might appeal to the woman (even in the absence of any kind of magical inducement) and extend so far as to 'her ladyship' being absolutely fascinated with (and a patron to) any child born of a union between succubus and eidolon.

Oh, Charles, you dirty beggar!

This does raise the question; can an eidolon cause pregnancy?
And, since Thom can only manifest when Rosiline is asleep, is he capable of being gentle enough to perform 'the necessary' without waking her? (If say, she were to go a bit heavy on the gin one night.)
Then her husband can call in the investigators, when his wife turns out to be with child, which he knows isn't his (through impotence or indifference)?

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

Nothing about the eidolon says it isn't a normal creature in its own right. It does manifest from the summoner's conscious, though. I'd say if your table wold be intrigued by that detail, of course it can. And if your party would roll their eyes or feel awkward, of course it can't. : ]

There are still details to clean up, but I think this entry remained my favorite after revisiting the ones I'd be voting for. I was only able to muster 6 votes without flinching, and I decided the other concept of a dreamer, with maybe even greater potential, relied entirely on the audience to make it cool, so I couldn't vote for a conept that wasn't submitted.

Great gamble. I hope it paid off for you.


This villain was quite creative and I was amazed when I read it...I was disenthused when I read this however.

Ryan Dancey wrote:

Does the villain's concept make sense within the IP?

No, not really.

So...you criticize the villan for not fitting in the world Paizo has created....yet provide no basis for this?

Ryan Dancey wrote:

Setting aside the issue of the Dreamer archetype (which is fine for an NPC who doesn't need to operate in the context of a party), I have big issues with this character.

First, how does she become a Summoner (Dreamer)? It just happens? She suddenly goes to sleep one day and summons an eidolon? That seems utterly wrong for this character's background of dissolute idleness.

You're asking for a complete character history in a 600 word entry? He provides what is needed to get the flavor of the character and there is more than enough flavor here.

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Third, what's with the killing? I get the mechanics of gaining XP, but that's a metagame consideration. She should be rightfully horrified by the things she dreams, tortured as stories from the street filter into her social circle and she begins to realize that her strange dreams are really happening... and then drama should flow from that.
As mentioned....she's an aristocrat....she doesn't care about the dregs of society that her Elidion is killing...why do you insist that the character needs to care about the people being killed? She's a villain.

I really dont like to address peoples posts like this, I understand that everyone has their own opinion but its kinda lame that you seem to be judging this character on a basis so far removed from the guidelines set by the competition. I would expect this from another spectator, not a judge.


I also think Mr. Dancey´s comments have been poory informed,
Criticizing things that in some cases simply don´t exist in the entry, but that he mis-read.
The role of the Judges seem to be that of providing INFORMED commentary/judgement...
Yet here as in other cases, it seems like Mr. Dancey is repeatedly commenting OUT of his expertise/knowledge, or not even minimally providing anything to back up his judgements. Certainly nobody is PERFECT, but it seems like a recurrent theme of his reviews... In this case, WHY BOTHER saying it doesn´t fit with the IP (his personal choice of judgement criteria) without expounding on how it doesn´t fit that criteria? At least when judges give an ERRONEOUS rationale, other commenters/judges can correct a factual error in their claims, but empty claims can´t really be responded to.


Quandary wrote:

I also think Mr. Dancey´s comments have been poory informed,

Criticizing things that in some cases simply don´t exist in the entry, but that he mis-read.
The role of the Judges seem to be that of providing INFORMED commentary/judgement...
Yet here as in other cases, it seems like Mr. Dancey is repeatedly commenting OUT of his expertise/knowledge, or not even minimally providing anything to back up his judgements. Certainly nobody is PERFECT, but it seems like a recurrent theme of his reviews... In this case, WHY BOTHER saying it doesn´t fit with the IP (his personal choice of judgement criteria) without expounding on how it doesn´t fit that criteria? At least when judges give an ERRONEOUS rationale, other commenters/judges can correct a factual error in their claims, but empty claims can´t really be responded to.

+1 I agree with this in a big way. He also tends to come across as rude, which makes his misreading of things worse.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Standback

OK, lemme take a second off from standing up for contestants I like, and stand up for a judge I like. It's fine to take exception to some of Ryan's comments, especially since he's judging, but I think the anger some people are directing his way are misplaced and inappropriate.

Yes, Ryan's comments are very curt. Let me tell you something: it's extremely common for an editor, of any sort, to give quick, curt comments. That's because A) time is precious, and any editor has tons of comments to give, and B) a professional editor is generally addressing his comments to professional writers, who can be expected to understand the substance of the comments without needing much in the way of softening or a detailed explanation of precisely why the editor thinks the way he does.

Now, one of the amazing things about Superstar is that we get so much marvelous, in-depth, non-curt commentary from lots of very professional people. In addition to that, we get Ryan's insights - which are curt. That's more than we usually get, not less, and don't you forget it. Nobody can say any contestant here didn't get an exhaustive critique. That's simply not the function Ryan's playing here (though I can see why many people would be annoyed by that).

I share your annoyance with clear, simple misunderstandings evident in some of Ryan's responses, particularly over on the Dollmaker entry. But I honestly prefer Ryan "dialing in" his criticism, than keeping it to himself, because a professional's "dialed in" criticism is plenty valuable, and often very difficult to get. Ryan's criticism doesn't hold to the high, exhaustive standard the other judges provide - fine. But we've got the other judges for that. And I don't think it's appropriate to start namecalling a judge whose efforts you consider insufficient.

A few direct responses:

Roshan wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:

Does the villain's concept make sense within the IP?

No, not really.

So...you criticize the villan for not fitting in the world Paizo has created....yet provide no basis for this?

He provides plenty of basis:

  • Within the IP, it is uncharacteristic for characters to gain full classes and powerful abilities without being aware of it.
  • An eidolon growing stronger as it kills people is very uncharacteristic of how power is gained (except, as he mentioned, as a metagame consideration).
  • Not necessarily specific to the IP, but other things that "don't make sense" are the bloodthirstiness of Rosaline's summoned creature as a reflection of herself - when no aspect of her description hints at such a thrill for violence; and that it's unrealistic for a husband to hire strange (or renowned) adventurers to look into a delicate matter like this.

Roshan wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:

Setting aside the issue of the Dreamer archetype (which is fine for an NPC who doesn't need to operate in the context of a party), I have big issues with this character.

First, how does she become a Summoner (Dreamer)? It just happens? She suddenly goes to sleep one day and summons an eidolon? That seems utterly wrong for this character's background of dissolute idleness.

You're asking for a complete character history in a 600 word entry? He provides what is needed to get the flavor of the character and there is more than enough flavor here.

This is purely subjective. It was enough flavor for you; it was a crucial gap for him. "Enough flavor" is obviously subjective; the importance of this detail in an NPC origin/background is also rather subjective.

Roshan wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:
Third, what's with the killing?<snip> She should be rightfully horrified by the things she dreams, tortured as stories from the street filter into her social circle and she begins to realize that her strange dreams are really happening... and then drama should flow from that.
As mentioned....she's an aristocrat....she doesn't care about the dregs of society that her Elidion is killing...why do you insist that the character needs to care about the people being killed? She's a villain.

Because (and this bothered me a lot too) it sounds like one day she was a "perfectly normal aristocrat who doesn't care much about the commoners", and the next day, with no prompting, she became "an aristocrat who summons a creature every night for murderous orgies and is fine with that." There's a pretty wide moral gap between those two, and the entry really does seem to imply that either there's no gap, or (more likely) that Rosaline leaped over that gulf effortlessly for no clear reason, or (rather unsupported) that Rosaline was already on the "yay, murder!" end of things, but until the summoning of the eidolon this was not expressed in any way whatsoever. Yes, leaving this unclear is a real issue.

In conclusion, the judges' comments are here to be agreed or taken issue with, and that's fine. And I think there's even place to individually criticize a particular judge's behavior. That place is not here, in the middle of a particular entry, in the middle of a voting round. Please, rebut individual claims as individual claims, and take the wider criticism to personal emails or to the general discussion forum.


Standback wrote:
Yes, Ryan's comments are very curt. Let me tell you something: it's extremely common for an editor, of any sort, to give quick, curt comments. That's because A) time is precious, and any editor has tons of comments to give, and B) a professional editor is generally addressing his comments to professional writers, who can be expected to understand the substance of the comments without needing much in the way of softening or a detailed explanation of precisely why the editor thinks the way he does.

Expect that this round isn't about being an editor, it's about being Brand Manager. I would expect a bit more than curt explanation free comments from Brand. No one expects him to soften his comments; just to actually comment rather than simply say no and be done with it. The judging isn't an editing process it's about judging an entry; and that needs a bit of explanation.

Standback wrote:
I share your annoyance with clear, simple misunderstandings evident in some of Ryan's responses, particularly over on the Dollmaker entry.

I'm afraid that those weren't clear and simple misunderstandings, one mistake I could understand; but totally botching the entry up shows that there was little to no effort put into the comments. I would expected him to have at least checked his reply before sending it.

Standback wrote:
But I honestly prefer Ryan "dialing in" his criticism, than keeping it to himself, because a professional's "dialed in" criticism is plenty valuable, and often very difficult to get. Ryan's criticism doesn't hold to the high, exhaustive standard the other judges provide - fine. But we've got the other judges for that.

Except that people are lazy, they would rather read the shortest comments and vote based on that. You're missing the point of our issue with the dialed in comments, they're not valuable or helpful; simply because someone is professional doesn't mean that it gives them leeway to provide blunt, unhelpful critique. Saying that because other judges shore up the weakness of his judgement isn't something I would see as a bonus either.

Standback wrote:
In conclusion, the judges' comments are here to be agreed or taken issue with, and that's fine. And I think there's even place to individually criticize a particular judge's behavior. That place is not here, in the middle of a particular entry, in the middle of a voting round. Please, rebut individual claims as individual claims, and take the wider criticism to personal emails or to the general discussion forum.

I couldn't disagree more, the very place to bring up issue with the problems and behavior is in the entry it pertains to and while it is still relative.

Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

Stuart Hobbs wrote:
and while it is still relative.

Or relevant, at least

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Standback

I see what you're saying here, Stuart. I don't think I disagree with most of it. IMHO he didn't give the unsubstantiated "no" that was claimed here, and I didn't find his comments unhelpful, but I can see why some would take them that way, and there were other complaints people raised that I agree with.

My point is that no individual entry should be sidetracked into a conversation about a particular judge. About his comments on that entry, sure. Not about his overall behavior, though. I'm not even saying to keep it to yourself - just to A) address it in the General Discussion, not here, and B) keep it respectful - particularly, acknowledge the effort put in here along with the criticism, and don't let it get personal.

And one very minor clarification:

Stuart Hobbs wrote:
Standback wrote:
I share your annoyance with clear, simple misunderstandings evident in some of Ryan's responses, particularly over on the Dollmaker entry.
I'm afraid that those weren't clear and simple misunderstandings, one mistake I could understand; but totally botching the entry up shows that there was little to no effort put into the comments. I would expected him to have at least checked his reply before sending it.

Very minor clarification, entirely my fault: I hadn't meant, "nu, no biggie; Ryan simply misunderstood." I meant "It is clear and simple to see that Ryan misunderstood something (to wit, something clear and simple)."

Not trying to be an apologist here :)

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

Abraham spalding wrote:

Yeah it is honestly a minor point over all (about the eidolon being or not being there), however for future reference it is fairly important as a point in a villains favor. It certainly didn't cost my vote but it is annoying to not have.

This might be a decent area for a "quick" template that shares just the variable information for such creatures. Something that merely covers what type it is (for animal companions), what feats it has, where the stat points go (if it gets any) and what equipment it has. With those few pieces of information everything else is cake.

I do feel it's a bit of a cheat to be able to skip such a vital piece of the villain when you can't do the same for spells prepared or known, or weapon training on a fighter or what not. However I understand why it was set up as it by the judges.

In fact, this concept works best if the eidolon is different every few nights - with a form as fluid as the Lady's dreams. Smashingly handsome one week, a nightmare of erotic horror the next, and a furious beast of depraved jealousy the next. Again, you'd have to be careful how you presented such a strong theme, but not having the eidolon fuly fleshed out is better than sticking the GM with just one form.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

Wow. I thought Mr. Dancy' comments were refreshing and spot-on most of the time. Haven't you ever seen an entry and just want to say "yeah, this one sucks" and move on to the next one? Not that he's been quite that dismissive, but let me tell you, you don't have to get very far into rpg writing (insofar as I am not very far into it) before you get some very brief, honest comments. You won't always agree with them, but picking a battle rarely gets you published.

I have had four publishing experiences. Two got published pretty much as I submitted them. The third I got an email filled with pages of feedback, most of which I really struggled with, since I was told that my first set of instructions and feedback didn't matter. Then I submitted the replacement I was asked, and the whole thing pretty much got rewritten including bad stat blocks, an encounter no one liked, and a plot twist that completely robbed the mystery and fun from the whole thing. But I didn't get a choice in the matter. My choices, put curtly the second time around, were 'you can leave your name on it and still get paid, or we can take your name off and you won't get paid.'

The fourth one said my stuff was pretty good, had some constructive feedback, and rewrote a number of things or refused entries because of space, because other publishers published something similar ahead of the release, or because they just that a final submission deserved inclusion, but needed rewriting.

In a way, every one of these experences was positive and valuable. But the most important lesson from them was be tough and take your feedback. If you don't agree, you signed a contract. Make the best of it. In no case was someone being a jerk to me just to be a jerk. Time, differences of opinion and other factors meant I got the feedback I got. And the worse publishing experience for me was probably the one where I got the most or the gentlest feeback.

This year I will see my 5th nd 6th publications. My feedback already has been polite, but very firm in one case, with a total change in direction required. I listened and obeyed.

If Ryan Dancy or Sean Reynolds sent me an email saying I sucked, I'd first think "Whoah, I got an email from Ryan Dancy or Sean Reynolds". Then I'd get to work fixing what they wanted me to fix. Because if I don't, I'm not gonna get published. And that's worse than getting my feewings hurt for a few minutes before I remember who's boss.


About the six armed reaper.

The summoner is NEUTRAL EVIL, just like Paizo it's self doesn't reprint existing rules, neither should the designer reprint what neutral evil means, it's in her stat block.

No neutral evil goblins have problems murdering and then slepping? No. but because this villan is human she should have a different criteria.

For "civilization" purposes this aristocratic villan keeps her self "composed" and outwardly "blank" because of her upbringing (no ranging day time psychosis), but at night her subliminal takes over and she no longer controls evil urges.

As what what 'love' means, evil people have a very different definition of that. Maybe he 'knight in shining armor' is a dark and mysterious jack the ripper who heeds to her beck and call and is a strong violent type?

600 words is a bit of a limit on that and I have seen paizo waste alot of print space on such details the PCs will never find out, care about and if they do the DM can flesh out.

the six armed reaper is cool, misleading and imaginative.
everything needed to send the PCs on a wild goose chase, and after killing him a few times and having him reappear it will be quite intersting.

Also the six armed sickle man might appear that way to the PCs perhaps in the villans mislead dreams, her perception of him as she wants to see him is quite different.

I would not expect a NE person to be appalled at hearing the stories of her murderous dreams coming true.

As for her husband hiring 'strangers' it is often noted that the PCs are unique, heroic and 'different' from anyone else in core material and as such as often hired by plently of people.
It would be known that the PC's have displayed powers and magical ability (if they are above first level), unless they have taken odd steps to avoid noteriety.
being fledgling heroes the husband may believe he can hire them as investigators rather than trying to hire the great seer of the mage tower over yonder.
But the task was not fleshing out the husband, or the encounter.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

Standback wrote:
I share your annoyance with clear, simple misunderstandings evident in some of Ryan's responses, particularly over on the Dollmaker entry. But I honestly prefer Ryan "dialing in" his criticism, than keeping it to himself, because a professional's "dialed in" criticism is plenty valuable, and often very difficult to get.

Mr Dancey is a marketing professional. I'm sure he's a heck of a guy in person, and his contributions to the industry really can't be overstated, but how much personal experience does he have with game design? The Pathfinder RPG? Golarion?

It's okay to be curt, and it's okay to express unpopular opinions. Mr Dancey's experiences in marketing and management could be a valueable contribution to the contest, but it's hard for me to take his contributions seriously because he so commonly insists on making strong, curt statements about things which he obviously does not understand. If there is wisdom in his posts, then as an observer I don't know where to find it, because I can't tell where he's speaking from experience and where he's over-reaching.


Standback wrote:

Roshan wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:

Does the villain's concept make sense within the IP?

No, not really.

So...you criticize the villan for not fitting in the world Paizo has created....yet provide no basis for this?

He provides plenty of basis:

  • Within the IP, it is uncharacteristic for characters to gain full classes and powerful abilities without being aware of it.
  • An eidolon growing stronger as it kills people is very uncharacteristic of how power is gained (except, as he mentioned, as a metagame consideration).
  • Not necessarily specific to the IP, but other things that "don't make sense" are the bloodthirstiness of Rosaline's summoned creature as a reflection of herself - when no aspect of her description hints at such a thrill for violence; and that it's unrealistic for a husband to hire strange (or renowned) adventurers to look into a delicate matter like this.
  • Within the IP, it is uncharacteristic for characters to gain....:
    Why? is it uncharacteristic? where in the Entire IP does it ever mention that the actual characters are so in tune with their bodies and powers that they can sense when they gain additional strength, even a minute amount? This is usually passed over because players actually on a level by level basis can see how much stronger they are but the characters themselves could easily be gaining strength without realizing it, like the Karate Kid, Daniel does all of these exercises thinking they're chores but realizes that his karate is getting better because of them. People don't KNOW when they're getting better, they notice the change when they use their skills, and as the description says she's a sheltered noble, when would she have need to use her unwittingly gained powers?

    An eidolon growing stronger as it kills people...:
    Why is this so abnormal? Experience points is simply how we view it, if the eidolon FEELS stronger after more kills, why would it be metagame? because it's different from how it's normally done? For players sure it may seem a bit strange but this is all done behind the scenes. If you take every single detail and try to nit-pick, I would bring up the number of characters paizo has released that have minimal details outlining the source of their power that doesn't involve killing things because apparently anything dealing with killing things to gain exp is a metagame consideration.

    Maybe the first time it wasn't a random killing, it was the breaking point of frustration and anguish that led to a random killing on the side of the road. Again, this is a 600 word entry that has minimal details, and you as well as Ryan seem to think that if you do not have EVERYTHING pertaining to the character in a stat block that it's incomplete, even though the big villains get a whole page sometimes even two in the published material to flesh out the details.

    Not necessarily specific to the IP...:
    Okay, so why exactly does it not make sense? Again, it feels like you're reading so far into the one paragraph allotted that you're glossing over the fact that he had a word limit, I mean cmon, the intelligence and skill shown in the short stuff we've been given here, he could have easily given the story so much more, but he couldn't because he also had to do the stat block and other parts of the character.

    While I agree that professionals out there judge with experience and skill from years of working in the business, this is still a CONTEST. With it's own rules and criteria, Ryan seems to be judging this entry as if it was a simple submission sent to him by a fan, not taking into consideration (as the other judges have mentioned numerous times) the word count and limitations of the contest itself.

    RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Standback

    Roshan:

    First off, let me agree with your general point: this is a very creative entry, with lots of great thinking and innovation in it, with a very powerful idea at its core. The last thing I want to do is come off as panning Rosaline; she's a great creation.

    Nonetheless, two major points.

    Point Number A: Please note that you've shifted from "Mr. Dancey said this concept doesn't fit the IP without giving any justification," over to "Mr. Dancey said this concept doesn't fit the IP, and gave justifications, which I disagree with as follows." This second version is fine. Laudable, even. Please keep that in mind.

    Point Number B: You've given some good possible explanations for the points I raised in my previous post. I agree with them; I find them good possibilities if I were to insert Rosaline into my game. But the criticism raised was not that these points cannot be explained; merely that they were not explained, and seemed central enough to the character that this absence stood out.

    Wordcount constraints are very likely the reason for this; however, sticking to wordcount is a crucial part of the assignment. That's the assignment; saying "it's hard, so I did a mediocre job" won't work (or rather, it will - and be mediocre). You've basically got 3 choices: pick a concept that fits comfortably into 600 words; pick a concept that squeezes in very tightly and be forced to leave some glaring holes open; or pick a concept that squeezes in very tightly and do a phenomenal job of condensing and clarifying it, so that the final product seems complete and self-contained. Note that for contest purposes, the last two options are probably the most rewarding; when writing a commercial product, option #2 is simply not on the table.

    This isn't a reason to dismiss this wonderful entry. It is a reason to point out that the entry, as it stands, has some significant flaws (well, gaps, mostly) in it. It's legitimate, constructive criticism. I can see why you might disagree with it; what bothers me is that you seem offended by it. If I've misunderstood your tone, and that's not the case, that'd be very nice to hear :)

    RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

    I don't think that Sean left holes here, I think he just made assumptions about what we, the readers, already know and understand about the game.

    I personally think that those assumptions were smart and reasonable, though the fact that others disagree is its own counterpoint. If some feel that "magical awakenings" are really weird or that it is "metagamey" to gain skill and power by killing people, well, maybe Sean misjudged a little.

    RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 4 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka DankeSean

    Wow! So that conversation started getting very interesting, now didn't it? ;-)

    Big thanks to everyone for comments, criticisms, defenses and rebuttals all week; I might not have pleased everyone, but I read and absorbed everything that was said all week, regardless.

    For the record, before I go on to say anything else, I just want it clear that I have no problems whatsoever with Ryan's judging comments on m'lady. His opinion is as valid as anyone else, and he certainly wasn't the only one citing the various problems he saw with Rosiline. (I will be addressing some of those same problems as I answer questions and comments later; a lot of the problems people spotted were the same ones I agonized over while drafting her; obviously I failed to get her completely bug-free.) Thanks to everyone who addressed those comments and attempted to justify the submission; it's seriously reassuring to see people come to your defense when you can't do it yourself. That said, it did start to get to feel a little uncomfortably close to judge-bashing; it never quite reached there, but it made me start to feel awkward, at the least. Like Standback said, if you want to comment on a judge's body of work in a contest rather than his specific comments, then it probably should go under General Discussion (if for no other reason than so he'd be more likely to see it and have the opportunity to reply) rather than discussion on a specific entry.

    Kind of busy tonight, but I hope the chance to get to come back and answer questions and criticisms. Thanks for your time in considering me for your vote.

    RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

    Sean McGowan wrote:
    Like Standback said, if you want to comment on a judge's body of work in a contest rather than his specific comments, then it probably should go under General Discussion (if for no other reason than so he'd be more likely to see it and have the opportunity to reply) rather than discussion on a specific entry.

    Okay, that's fair; sorry if I jumped in without thinking there and contributed to the bickering on your doorstep.

    RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 4 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka DankeSean

    I'm going to try something a little different this time, instead of answering questions point-by-point, I'm going to try and preemptively answer a lot with one post, since most of the criticism this entry received came from the same place. Specifically, there were some clear gaps in the history and progression of Lady Rosaline from jaded aristocrat to desperate housewife to summoner of dreams to mass murdering romantic. All these criticisms were completely fair and accurate; the gaps in the entry kept popping up, I'd try and patch over them, but doing so meant I had to cut words somewhere else, which made more gaps appear, and finally I just decided to go with the cliffs notes version and hope that would appeal in spite of the shortcomings.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm a big proponent of 'if your idea can't fit into the word count, then you should develop a new idea'. But I felt like I could get enough across that I wasn't completely failing to present her in the best light; honestly, the fact that people picked up on the missing bits and criticize their not being their is, in a way, a compliment, of sorts; hopefully it means people were intrigued by what I could present and I left them wanting more. Not in the way you're supposed to leave 'em wanting more, of course, but I feel like I at least managed to raise interest, rather than leave people uninterested.
    So, in response to that interest, I'm going to try and give what I think are the answers to most of the missing gaps. Not that I expect any of this to make people retroactively go 'gosh, I SHOULD have voted for that one!'; like I said, if I couldn't get it in the contest entry and you found that made things too flawed to vote for, that's my fault and not yours. But I do want to fill in holes and answer raised questions; even if those questions were completely rhetorical at the time. :-)

    Wedded bliss, or lack thereof
    So here's a funny bit: originally she was inspired by portrait #17. Basically, I looked at the tattoos, said, 'those could be summoner's glyphs', and the idea spiraled from there. So, in my original concept, she was going to be a young, hot trophy wife for some wrinkly, drooling, septuagenarian noble. My only issues there were that I had to spend a lot of word count explaining where she, being a half-elf, came from, and why she was murdering the masses rather than using that eidolon to kill her husband. Or, being young and beautiful, why she couldn't just find herself a young stud to have an affair with. So, after realizing I had to make her human, and preferably both middle aged and less than pretty, I fell on #32. Now, I'll admit, she doesn't scream 'nobility' at me via the picture; honestly, she looks more like the innkeepers penny pinching wife who may or may not be planning to slip rat poison in the soup. But... older. Human. Female. And by the time I had to revise portraits the deadline was getting uncomfortably close, so I just made do. But so there you have it; she'd been married off young, her husband was a bit older (though not as old as in my original idea; instead, she was maybe 18-20 when she was married to a 40-ish Lord Rachmolian Mistandre. (Which would make him late 60's-early 70's now, I think). One interesting question I never addressed and was concerned would be raised is people wondering if they had any children. Well, for what it's worth, I think they did. Two, maybe, both early on in the marriage, and grown and out of the house now. I don't think Lady Rosiline was ever a particularly affectionate mother, though. I think she's never known how to be affectionate with anyone; it's something that she's only recently learned to show, and then only for her eidolon.

    Life is but a dream, sweetheart.
    I got flak over the 'midlife crisis magic powers out of the blue' bit, and that's fair. Not because I feel there's anything wrong with a spontaneous magical awakening, but because I tried to pack so much concept into those four words that it kind of fizzled. Originally, I had it down that due to some extremely severe parenting in her childhood, (she was actually raised by her grandparents after her mother proved to have an adventurous spirit, ran away from home, and only returned to Oppara and her family estate after having run through her money. And by the time, she was pregnant, died in childbirth, and grandma and grampa were bound and determined that THIS child was going to have all willfulness and spirit of adventure stifled out of her. Cue super Victorian child rearing tactics.) she's been emotionally repressed her entire life. As a child, her only escape in long hours constantly accompanied by a stern governess was an imaginary friend. As she grew older and it became less socially acceptable to talk to invisible strangers, that friend faded away, but somehow, she could always still hear that voice in dreams. Through her educational years, through her engagement and marriage, through giving birth to children of her own and stifling them as badly as her parents had stifled her, she always had a vivid dream life that she could turn to.
    And then, it all changed. So... how and why? Sorry to disappoint anyone who feels that having a character class always requires training, but with that I personally disagree. I think it depends on the class; certainly sorcerers and oracles can wake up one day and discover they have funky powers. Summoners... well, the summoner flavor text specifically says that they form a bond with an outsider and that the eidolon is an aspect of that. So... not really spontaneous, I'll admit, but I felt it was nebulous enough area that I could fudge around with it. But, if you consider the full backstory, including what I left out, it makes a bit more sense. Maybe her imaginary friend... wasn't. Maybe a part of her soul was always in contact with something outside the world. Maybe that 'something' was just keeping an eye on the link that would someday allow it to intrude on the mortal world again, once the circumstances were right.
    And the circumstance? Well, it's tacky and cliched, so I apologize for that, but I think it was menopause. Her body stopped being able to produce life and suddenly became a doorway for a different kind of life. And then, one night soon after, her dreams where she had only occasionally been able to see her old imaginary friend-now-lover became much more vivid and real. And then she found herself seeing the world through the eyes of that dream made flesh...

    Yeah, because Jack the Ripper? That's so not sexy.
    So how did we get from 'the dream of love I have is capable of walking into this world, but, alas, only when I sleep!' to 'Roll on the 1st edition DMG prostitute random encounter table to see who dies tonight'? Well, after her initial shock and disappointment that she can't share her nights (or bed) with her eidolon, she settled in and started playing with it. If she can't be with him, she can at least dream-ride him and see the world through his eyes. And... well, she would never really admit it, but sending her unkillable dream man out to experience the lower parts of town appealed to a deeply scandalous side of her spirit that she never, ever in her entire life had gotten to express. She sent him out to seedy taverns where he played drinking games; casinos where she gleefully had him squander gold on rigged games; and, yes. If a brazen strumpet made him a proposition, Lady Rosiline would have him take it. Because if she couldn't personally experience lovemaking with her eidolon, she'd do the next best thing and experience it through his eyes and senses. She just didn't realize how jealous it would make her. Who was this busty wench that she got to spend her night with the man of Lady Rosiline's dreams? More, that after the fact she was going to be paid for her wantonness? Oh, it was infuriating, in spite of the rush of pleasure, she could just kill the girl...
    And that was when the Lady Rosiline discovered that her eidolon would, in fact, happily carry out her slightest whim, as her dream sight filled with his long arms throttling the life out of the girls' gasping, purple face...
    For what it's worth, I imagine she was startled enough by the first murder that she woke up screaming. It wasn't till somewhere in the middle of the next day that she considered the possibilities. And it wasn't till she drifted off to sleep that night that she wondered if she had maybe enjoyed that rush of power as the girl died at 'her' hands.
    Now, as for the 'Thom killing to get XP and become more powerful is metagamey'; well, yes, yes it is. If it's more in-world to say 'the elder thing that projects itself into our world through Lady Rosiline's fantasies draws power from death, and that power is expressed both through an increase in Lady Rosiline's magical abilities and the abilities of the figment of itself that comprises her eidolon', well, have at it. The point is, either through her own reasoning or the subtle influences of her dream-lover, Rosiline believes that the eidolon comes closer to true flesh with every life it takes. A side point, and a reflection of the fact that she's not really magically trained, is that she's dead wrong here. As a dreamer, she's never going to be able to share the stage with her eidolon, except by, at a higher level, projecting a dream-image of herself to be beside him. Not quite what she has in mind. But, as the killings have progressed (and Lady Rosiline discovers she might have a bit of a taste for murder) the eidolon has grown the extra arms and become more proficient with weapons; becoming more a murder machine. Someday she expects she'll be able to revert him to simply being the man of her dreams, but for now, more arms = more slicing.
    One last note here: I'm not even sure the eidolon (whose name isn't really 'Longrazor Thom'; that's just the name the terrified Crownsgate locals have given it; I imagine Rosiline has a more private pet name for him.) loves Lady R, or if it's just manipulating her. Or, even more interestingly, if the full entity beyond the stars that communicates to her in dreams has been manipulating her her entire life, but the aspect of itself that steps into the world each night has begun to feel affection for it's summoner. Lot of fun stuff to play with there. :-)

    So... just some of the background thoughts that brewed up in my head. Again, not so much to try and sway votes after the fact as to reassure those who figured I did have a plan in my head that I didn't have room to express. I think the above text blocks address a lot of the conceptual questions I've seen raised here; when I get a chance I'll go question by question and try and answer the mechanical/grammatical ones.

    Oh, and one more thing: since we've established that Rosiline has children, let's say one of them is a daughter. Who has lived a parochial and restrained life, just like her mother's upbringing, since that's the only way Rosiline knows to raise children. She'd be about thirty now; certainly married, probably with kids of her own. And perhaps bored, bitter, and jaded, just like mom. You know? I think she had an imaginary friend too, when she was younger. And, in the event of her mother dying at the hands of adventurers whose indiscreet investigations have brought shame and dishonor to the family, that imaginary friend might just reappear in her dreams, as the outsider entity that has lurked over their family bloodline for hundreds of years moves on to the next available window into the world...


    Thanks for the feedback, Sean! Portrait 17 was a favorite of mine, too. I am deeply saddened that you lacked the space to flesh out that version of Rosiline. I think she would have been my favorite this round (Instead of the gentleman knave).

    That said, still love it and am glad to hear more of your insight into her.

    RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor

    Stuart Hobbs wrote:
    Except that people are lazy, they would rather read the shortest comments and vote based on that.

    I don't know if it's relevant, but I kind of feel like that's not true. I think most of the people invested enough to vote are going to read the entries and decide based on that. Sure, maybe comments from judges and other gamers may influence opinions (I was kicking myself a bit for voting too quickly and wishing I'd spent more time seeing other people's reactions and how some things could/couldn't work), but I kind of doubt most people looked at just the four judges' comments and reacted.

    And, man, I know it's not what works in a module, but I wish there'd been room for the full characters the contestants imagined, since I assume most of them would have been as excellently fleshed out (er, no pun intended) as Sean's is here.


    Congrats on making it to Round 4!

    RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

    I think I did more enjoy previous years, where the contestants had more words to play with, but there's something to be said for the stiffer limit and how that highlights stronger writers. I think it's clear now that Sean could have made excellent use of a few hundred more words. But he also (in my opinion) made excellent use of the words he had, giving us something that stood on its own even though it was really just the naked core of his story. That's not easy to pull off.

    But yea, the full writeup definitely makes me want to see what you would do in Round 5. :)

    Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

    Sean, your idea is yoinked, modified for oriental Adventures, and may debut in next Monday's game. Poor jerks will not see this coming, which is one of the things that contributes to her success as a villain.

    Appreciate your long response about the Lady, and I think the depth you've given her makes her novel-worthy.

    Grand Lodge Contributor , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

    Sean McGowan wrote:
    I'm going to try something a little different this time... (lots of interesting fluff)

    Sean, I think your entry was by far the most interesting one this round. You chose an archetype that didn't receive much praise from the judges or audience, a bold design choice. And you made it work! Well done - I'm very much looking forward to seeing your encounter for round 4!

    There are some interesting parallels and contrasts between your extended description of Lady Rosiline and some of the flavor text I wrote for my round 2 submission and the villain I would have submitted if I had been in the top 16.

    You seem to have put a lot of thought into your design. I like that. : )

    RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 4 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka DankeSean

    Steven T. Helt wrote:

    Sean, your idea is yoinked, modified for oriental Adventures, and may debut in next Monday's game. Poor jerks will not see this coming, which is one of the things that contributes to her success as a villain.

    Appreciate your long response about the Lady, and I think the depth you've given her makes her novel-worthy.

    Wow, thanks. Being yoinked is a major compliment! I'd be really interested to hear how she goes.

    RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 4 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka DankeSean

    Serpent wrote:
    There are some interesting parallels and contrasts between your extended description of Lady Rosiline and some of the flavor text I wrote for my round 2 submission and the villain I would have submitted if I had been in the top 16.

    Hah. I noticed that too. (Incidentally, loved your villain write up.) Both summoners, of course, but also both being manipulated by creepy beings from beyond. Your Lillyann is a lot more proactive/hands on in her own evildoings, but I could see them sitting down to tea and bonding over their different ways of instilling terror in the populace.

    RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 4 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka DankeSean

    Been busy all week, even after getting my R3 entry in, but I finally have time to answer questions. Yay!

    First up, one thing I've neglected to say is- BIG thanks to Sean Huguenard for coming up with the Dreamer in the first place. Even if it wasn't perfect, it was the core of a great idea and I don't know that it would take too much adjusting to make it fully viable for PCs as well as NPCs. In any case, the Dreamer took a great deal of flak between it's R2 thread and this one and I just wanted to step back, and say thanks for coming up with something that put really fun ideas in my head.

    And onwards...

    Neil Spicer:

    Spoiler:
    Neil Spicer wrote:
    Stylistically, there's still a couple of places where an editor would have to adjust your stat-block, though. For instance, when you have multiple classes contributing to an NPC or monster's hit points, you need to separate them out rather than rolling them together...even when they're of the same Hit Die. So, instead of "6d8+18" it should be "1d8+5d8+18". Also, for her spell-like abilities as a summoner, you still need to give us a concentration value just in case someone tries to disrupt her when she invokes them. And for your parenthetical explanations of feats and skills like Spell Focus, Knowledge, and Perform, you need to lowercase the words "conjuration," "history," and "keyboard"...

    Argh, I was sure I was forgetting something, even after six drafts. Glad that those were all 'minor' rather than 'dealbreakers', but: noted for the future.

    Quote:
    Lastly, Rosiline's tactics are somewhat limited given the meager amount of spells and magic items at her disposal. I actually think you would have been wiser to give her something with more "oomph" to it than a wand of summon monster II (i.e, she can do enough of that already for a combat with her spells) and a wand of vanish (which you could have covered with a lower cost potion). Then, you could have substituted something more tactically interesting for an encounter involving her. I will note, however, that it appears that you've overspent a bit on gear. That rod of lesser metamagic (extend) is a bit too expensive for her...and I don't really view it as all that necessary as any monsters summoned with her spells will likely last the entire combat anyway. Better to spend that gold on something else and give her a different kind of trick up her sleeve.

    Fair enough for the most part; given the limitations of the Dreamer archetype, she makes a fairly weak final boss fight in any case. I probably should have given her +1 CR exceptional resources to give her enough money to have some really fun items that would give her a bit more oomph in an encounter. That said, I don't think I overspent much on what she had. At least, not technically- partially charged wands only count at a percentage of the full wand cost, right? That is probably a slightly cheesy way to give an NPC more resources than they'd otherwise have, I'll admit. But leaving the cheese factor aside, by my math, she comes out to 4,515 gp in items. 4,815 including her masterwork dagger. Which only brings her a couple hundred over the wealth a 6th level Heroic Tier NPC would be expected to have- 4,650 gp. (The dagger really doesn't even need to be masterwork, except it felt gauche to have her using a 'common' dagger. But by the time she's reduced to stabbing people, the fight is over and done with one way or another.)

    While I don't debate she could have had a more thrilling suite of items, I did have behind-the-scenes justifications for the ones I picked for her, though: Her use of the metamagic rod, for example, isn't actually meant to boost her summons (which, as either SLA or summoned via wand, wouldn't benefit from metamagic anyhow) so much as her other spells- shield, as mentioned in the text, and while it's not explicitly spelled out, extending her offensive spells like slow or grease help to keep the party at bay a bit longer, ideally. The summon monster II wand is there so she can spam the party with backup monsters for whatever she summons via her 'main' summon monster III SLA, since summoners can only have one critter out via that at a time. Vanish I wanted because I figured she'd be slipping in and out of invisibility depending on when she chose to cast offensive spells, and it would be cheaper to use that rather than a wand of invisibility. A potion wasn't what I was looking for either, since I wanted to be able to recast it; in retrospect, though, a potion of improved invisibility probably would have given me what I needed at a better cost.
    So, while you're right, I could have done better, I felt like these suited the 'theme' of a character who doesn't really expect or know how to deal with confrontation, and simply wants to disappear from sight and let minions do the dirty work.

    Sean K. Reynolds:

    Spoiler:

    You didn't really have any questions that need answering, I think, but just wanted to say thanks for clarifying the 'eidolon stats not required' issue when it came up during voting.

    Mark Moreland:

    Spoiler:
    Mark Moreland wrote:
    But I think that shows some chutzpa, and I like chutzpa.

    As it happens, I've always liked the word chutzpah, so glad everyone could be made happy here.

    Quote:
    In the hooks section, I would suggest not painting a GM into the corner by limiting potential love interests to heterosexual pairings.

    Nothing to say here, except: God, I love Paizo. Seriously, such a refreshing attitude is awesome.

    ...besides, not defining genders woulda saved me a few words I could have used elsewhere. ;-)

    Quote:
    she might be a bit of a glass canon, especially since her first round would be spent using a full round summon. Chances are she'd get hit there and need to make a concentration check (which you don't provide a modifier for in her SLA section).

    No question on the glass cannon part, and definitely my failure on not giving a concentration number under her SLAs, but I do just want to point out that, ideally, she'd have a summon out before the party confronts her. (Since summoner's SLA lasts for minutes rather than rounds, she could do it well in advance of the fight), and that it only takes a standard action for a summoner to use their SLA rather than a full-round like casting the spell. Not that she's not likely to take a hit mid-casting at some point, but I did think ahead for some things. :-)

    Ryan Dancey:

    Spoiler:
    Ryan Dancey wrote:


    Does the villain's concept make sense within the IP?

    No, not really.

    Like I said elsewhere on this thread, that's a fair cop; I have no problem with your saying so. (Especially sicne I still got a reccomendation to advance from you, so... thanks!) I do hope that you and everyone else who questioned the same issues got a chance to look over my (admittedly rambling and poorly organized) expanded backstory for her a few posts up from this one; obviously much more than I'd be able to pack into an entry, or, really, even a pnblished product, and in no way justifying the absence of that backstory in the entry itself, but... just wanted to let you know that there was internal consistency for her, even though it was merely in my head and nowhere else.

    Quote:
    He's going to hire some strange adventurers to check up on his wife's boudoir and assignations? I think it unlikely. If a Darkman-dressed six-armed sickle-clawed horror was walking around my house late at night I'd be more than a bit disturbed.

    Though I will defend this bit by pointing out that particular hook came with the caveat 'if the party has a reputation for discreet investigations', I took pains to not delete those words in every single draft, even when I could have used an extra sentence elsewhere, so I'll stick by them. Basically that's there as a 'unique' hook, if the GM was going with a nobility/espionage/political game. Sort of the modern equivalent of hiring a private eye to tail your suspciously busy wife around town. 'Oh, yes, brother, you might want to hire this group to look into that for you. They're the ones who handled that... unfortunate incident with Madame Froufrou's missing diamonds last month. Very subtle and know when to keep their mouths shut.'

    And also, just wanted to point out: the eidolon doesn't have sickle claws, he just uses actual sickles as weapons. (Why? Because they're simple, light, and thus multiweapon-feat favoring, and a bit scarier visually, at least, than a bunch of daggers. Though in retrospect, war razors might have been an even better choice...)

    Dave Gross and Stephen Radney-MacFarland:

    Spoiler:

    Again, no real questions that need answering, I think, but thanks for coming aboard as guest judges and giving us the benefit of your time. :-)

    motteditor:

    Spoiler:
    motteditor wrote:


    Thinking about it, I wonder if it could work as an intelligent item that Rosiline somehow acquired, which is actually acting as the summoner. One of the things I like is it's not easy for PCs to simply say she's guilty and should be killed, and that would makes it even more difficult for them to decide what to do (as well as possibly getting around the flawed archetype).

    I'd rather just 'fix' the dreamer, since I think it's doable with a little work, rather than chalk it up to a magic item (which then, of course, leaves the players going 'Wow! Cool! Can we have it? What? You mean we have to destroy it because it's all evil and sentient and stuff?!' Always makes me wonder how real RPG players would react to receiving the One Ring... (And yes, I've read DM of the Rings.))

    And just to be clear: while I imagine proving it (even to themselves) would be difficult for the party, Lady R. is massively, undeniably guilty. :-)

    Miss Jacki:

    Spoiler:
    Miss Jacki wrote:


    I'm a girl's girl. I fall in love with love themed back stories, and especially with Valentines day coming up, it's a perfect time for them. I see what you're trying to do here, and I give you props for trying to do it. However, it fails for me in a few ways.

    I understand that she's married through duty, plain as can be, and can likely only find love in her dreams. I get how Thom as her eidolon becomes her love, but I don't understand how he becomes this murderous monster. You say he kills for love, but how does his killing show his love? Does he gain strength by doing so, coming closer to being 'real' or manifesting during waking hours as it hints in the Motivations/Goals? I see that you leave it open for a triangle, but it sounds like this is resulting in multiple, ongoing deaths. Does Rosiline fall in love with every male that she meets and only at night does Thom get his chance at revenge and kills them all? Does she control Thom and try and kill every female he might have eyes for? I just don't understand why there the blood-lust comes from otherwise.

    Even with a villain, it's nice to be able to swoon when you put yourself in their shoes if they have a back story with lovers in it. Too, with a villain I either have to HATE to LOVE them or LOVE to Hate them. Unfortunately with what we've been given and as many questions as it leaves me, I just don't love Rosiline at all.

    Rosiline won't be getting my vote this round.

    I would be perfectly fine with more people not voting for me if each and every one of them gave as fantastic constructive criticism as you did here. Seriously, I'm not even joking: thanks. Please critique me again next round.

    Also, much like I said to Ryan D, if the concept intrigued you more than the execution, then I hope you got the chance to read my expanded take on Rosiline a few posts back.

    Ice Titan:

    Spoiler:
    Ice Titan wrote:
    There's a lot of things you could do with this villain and all of them really appeal to me, down to the inevitable confrontation where I completely ignore the dreamer archetype and have her fight the PCs and summon Thom at the same time.

    I actually came close to doing that too- since it isn't explicitly stated that a dreamer can't still call up an eidolon through use of the summon eidolon spell, doing so was going to be part of her tactics. But backed down because, while it isn't explicit, it still feels like cheating/rules lawyering. Also it would kind of ruin my whole motivation of them being star-crossed lovers; why send him out a-murdering when she can just cast a spell for a couple minutes of hanky panky at a time?

    I'm still curious if use of that spell violates the concept of the archetype, however.

    Seabryn:

    Spoiler:
    Seabryn wrote:

    "Long dreaming of a soulmate to replace her loveless marriage, now when asleep that dream becomes flesh."

    Maybe you edited too harshly here, but your modifiers don't modify what they should - 'when asleep' and 'long dreaming...' both modify "that dream" (replace "that dream becomes flesh" with e.g. "that woman causes trouble" and you'll see what I mean), a nonsensical interpretation that was hard for me to shake.

    Yeah; sorry about that. You nailed it on the head when you said it was an editing mishap; a lot of times in this entry I tried to save words by condensing multiple sentences into one. Sometime it worked, sometimes it had... unfortunate results, like you just commented on. I can't even really make the excuse that they slipped by me; I noted them in editing, tried to smooth them over, but in some cases those compressed and mangled sentences contained enough information that I wasn't willing to edit them out entirely rather than let them go through, so I just closed my eyes, and hit submit. Which I hated to do; I have an English degree, so some of those errors were downright embarrassing to me! I just hoped people would either ignore them or be somewhat forgiving. Thanks for being in the latter category, at least.

    Standback:

    Spoiler:
    Standback wrote:


    That said, it's odd to me that thus seemingly demure noblewoman has such a taste for blood - since the killing did start somewhere. Your description hints at no such bloodlust anywhere else in her personality. Is it repressed? Or just, well, thematically convenient? I have difficulty taking the scenario of "Hi! Want a lover? Who kills lots of commonfolk?" at face value.

    Yup; all true. Hope you have had the time to read the bigger version of her bio.

    Quote:
    Another thing is that I'm really missing a better sense of what her waking self is like; how she presents herself to others. A Charisma 18 should be pretty interesting, even when she's awake, no?

    Now that is something that I definitely missed a cue on. You're right, and I can only really explain it by saying that in my earlier concept of her as the young, pretty trophy wife she was described as being bubbling and vivacious, although still stifled by the lifestyles of nobility. When I made her older and plainer, I just downgraded her to 'demure and reserved' without accounting for that 18 charisma.

    Quote:
    - I'm pretty sure that you don't need to mention the sampler in her gear. But I LOLed at that. :P

    Oh, yeah, that was another one of those things that I flat out refused to delete from the first draft onwards. Some Paizo NPCs do have 'thematic' items like that listed with their gear, and I wanted to capture a little of that. Originally she had a silk fan as well; that got cut, but the sampler was going nowhere if I could help it. Only two words, so it's not like they would have freed a LOT of space, but aside from being amusing, I felt that it (plus her skills) helped to say a good deal about her background and day-to-day life.

    So VERY glad you noticed and appreciated it.

    Quote:
    The guy doing the damage is not, in the PCs' eyes, the Big Bad they fight at the end. I'm afraid they'll fight Thom half a dozen times, until the GM goes "Hah! This random noblewoman has been summoning him all along!", and the PCs go "Huh? Who now?". It's not clear how Rosaline herself might enter the game - so the villain is "adventuring from home," like we were afraid of.

    Yeah, I'll admit that aspect of it involves the unspoken 'GM, don't be a dick' assumption. I figure after a fight or two, divination magic comes into play and at least narrows things down a bit for the party. And... well, the lacy handkerchief is a bit cheesy of a giveaway, but I figure it could be tossed in there after a fight if the party's have a hard time investigating. And it is... kind of sweet, in a creepy way, that Thom carries his lady's token with him while doing her butchering...

    Quote:

    Use of Portrait: Didn't wow me. The portrait looks very sour, and not particularly noble. I didn't feel the choice of portrait added much to the entry, or that the entry was an intriguing presentation of the visual.[/quote

    Yup; don't drink the soup after you've pissed off the innkeeper's wife. Fair criticism.

    Nick Bolhuis:

    Spoiler:
    Quote:
    This is really well done. I personally would have liked to see some stats for the eidolon, but since it's not required and I'm not psychic I'll assume you wanted to give them too me.

    I did, I really did. It felt like a slight wimp-out to not include it, so I can't really complain about everyone who dinged me because they felt it should have been included regardless of whether it was required or not. I tried but abandoned it after the first draft; even an abbreviated text block took up too much space, so I went with the easy route of total avoidance. Seriosuly, if I'd included Thom's stats, her description and motivations would have been one sentence each: 'She's kinda old and not pretty.' 'She wants to shag her eidolon so has him kill people.'

    I do have a rough set of Thom stats buried in that first draft, though; maybe I'll clean 'em up and post them regardless, for anyone still curious after the fact.

    Chris Mortika:

    Spoiler:
    Chris Mortika wrote:


    One grammar issue. There's an error called a misplaced modifier, when a dependent claus is attached to the wrong noun.

    Wearing my favorite smoking jacket, my dog nestled at my feet by the fire.

    Unless the dog is indeed wearing the smoking jacket, the initial dependent clause is trying to connect to a missing noun (I).

    Sean McGowan wrote:

    Schemes/Plots/Adventure Hooks:
    Investigating the killings, Longrazor Thom battles the party, vanishing when defeated...
    Should they have a reputation for discreet inquiries, Lord Mistandre contacts the party. ...
    If known as heroes in Oppara, Rosiline may become enamoured of an male PC, or Thom of a female. ...
    It was driving me nuts.

    I'll enter a plea of No Contest. No sustainable defense from me on this topic. See my above response to Seabryn for more on this, but if it brings you comfort, I self flagellated a good deal over this before and after submitting.

    AskaRPGSuperSuccubus:

    Spoiler:
    AskaRPGSuperSuccubus wrote:


    Fruitcake rating:
    This woman rates a large, lashed with marzipan and icing, winter festival fruitcake that has been steeped in brandy for twelve months and is served on best porcelain plates with accompanying high-quality tea in the insanity stakes.

    Lady R. might not have been on top of the Gulga-Bracht scale this round, she wasn't even on top of the Fruitcake scale, but man, she got the best description in the fruitcake standings! That bit of text actually makes me want to eat the vile stuff!

    Mmm. Marzipan.

    Abraham spalding:

    Spoiler:
    Abraham spalding wrote:


    Whenever I see a stat block that has a 'companion' with it I expect to see the companion -- especially if the companion is described in detail or a large part of the villainy. In this case 'Thom' is a major part of the plot and villainy -- in fact he is the major villain... and I don't have stats for him.

    Fair enough; like I said to Nick, I can't really get upset that this was an issue for people, requirements for the round or no. I did see you say the same thing for Ethan's Drayden entry regarding his hound companion and I knew I was in for it once you got around to me. :-) Especially since an eidolon is really a bigger part of the summoner class than animal companions, mounts, or familiars are for other classes. So... thanks for giving me a vote regardless of your misgivings.

    Quote:
    I like her low level nature but it also plays against really using "thom" as a threat, since at that low of a level his points are really sparse and hitting any PC with six attacks in one round is going to cause some real issues on survivability... not that this is a bad thing, but certainly something to consider.

    It's an interesting conundrum, that. I sort of imagined Lady Rosiline being part of, not just a 32 page adventure, but rather the opening installment of an AP. The party gets to fight Thom in an alley early on, when they're still 1st level, and he'd be pretty much a glass cannon. Six attacks would possibly take down at least one or two PCs, but the fact that he'd probably be functioning at 25% of his full hit points means he goes poof pretty quick. Throw in some other urban adventuring, maybe some increasingly easy alley fights with Thom as they level up, till finally they're 3rd or 4th level and have the proof needed to confront lady Rosiline in person. They break into the villa, only to discover that... she's in her bedroom, having taken a sleeping draught, and Thom is there to confront them at his full strength. Cue tough-ish fight, Thom goes down for the last time, and an alarm spell triggers to wake Lady Rosiline up to make her own last stand...

    Nicolas Quimby:

    Spoiler:
    Nicolas Quimby wrote:
    Just the fact that you made the Dreamer look so good is really impressive; some people feel you accepted a handicap here, but I wouldn't describe it like that. It might have taken some work to get here, but in the end it doesn't weigh your villain down at all, and in fact enables some really cool storytelling that wouldn't have been possible without it.

    I agree; I felt a little bit uncomfoprtable during the voting when people said that sort of thing, because a), I think it downplays the inherrent potential in the dreamer archetype and fails to give Sean H. credit where due, and b) credits me a bit more than is fair.

    Not to be humble; I'll happily take praise that's not due to me. :-) But seriously, one of the most common comments in the dreamer thread was 'I can see this as a better NPC than PC class.' I just went with that.

    Snorter:

    Spoiler:
    Snorter wrote:


    This does raise the question; can an eidolon cause pregnancy?
    And, since Thom can only manifest when Rosiline is asleep, is he capable of being gentle enough to perform 'the necessary' without waking her? (If say, she were to go a bit heavy on the gin one night.)
    Then her husband can call in the investigators, when his wife turns out to be with child, which he knows isn't his (through impotence or indifference)?

    Oh, GOD, brain bleach!

    Ahem. That said, while it's a little beyond the scope of this entry, I'd personally say that I don't think there's anything preventing a summoned outsider from putting on the Barry White CDs and gettin' smoooooth...
    I mean, isn't that how various cults theoretically work? Summon the demon, impregnate the new recruit (or have the new recruit knock up a succubus), wait nine months and be disappointed that you've just got another tiefling on your hands instead of the prophesied vessel of destruction? An eidolon could just be a variation on that, depending on what, exactly, it is and where it's supposed to come from.
    That said, Lady Rosiline is past her birthing years, so not so much an issue for her. ;-)

    Thanks for commenting and voting, everyone; I've only answered comments that had questions, but if you dropped in to say nice things, trust that I read them and I thank you for any praise you sent my (and Lady Rosiline's) way.

    RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

    Sean McGowan wrote:

    I agree; I felt a little bit uncomfoprtable during the voting when people said that sort of thing, because a), I think it downplays the inherrent potential in the dreamer archetype and fails to give Sean H. credit where due, and b) credits me a bit more than is fair.

    Not to be humble; I'll happily take praise that's not due to me. :-) But seriously, one of the most common comments in the dreamer thread was 'I can see this as a better NPC than PC class.' I just went with that.

    Definitely. And yet, when I said "the fact that you made the Dreamer look so good is really impressive", it sounds like I might have been contradicting that. ^^; There's something of a dichotomy there (between "The dreamer is awesome and you just went with it", verses "the dreamer is bad and you made it good") that's hard to articulate around, but in the end I don't think either of those things are true.

    Yes, Sean Huguenard struck on a really great vision with the Dreamer, and a lot of the resonance of your villain flows from that. It's a wonderful idea for a fantasy character.

    But at the same time, the ability and the inclination to see that potential in other peoples' and to bring those ideas so far is truly admirable. Game design often means playing with other peoples' toys. That's why we have these rounds (where you have to incorporate someone else's entry) in the first place.

    Rosalinde stands on her own as a really great character; yet, as a character, she's totally built around a fantasy concept which none of us were really familiar with until right before you wrote her. That's designer chops. :)

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