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Can't be done. Meow, meow, meow.
OK, now that that is out of the way, let's figure out a few SIMPLE things that could make a low magic version of the game work. Obviously, things will be a little less powerful, and some concepts (inter-planar adventure!) won't work very well in this setting.
Here are the guidelines:
- Low Magic, NOT No Magic.
- Must be a simple concept.
- Must not alter game/class balance too much.
- Lets put a PC level cap of 16 on this for now.
Here are some of my ideas:
- All magic items cost 2X. This also applies to paying to have spells cast, as well as crafting.
- Crafting requires special materials.
- All spells of level 7 and up take at least a full round to cast.
- Characters may get some minimal increases to saves, ability scores, hit bonuses, AC, etc. These are not intended to replace magic items, just make it so item are not "required".
- Full casters get no bonus spells-per-day from high ability scores. Another option would limit the ability modifier full casters can add from ability score to 1/2 caster levels.
- No spell lasts longer then 24 hours.
All spells have a blood component. Whenever a creature/character casts a spell it takes an amount of damage (could go with non-lethal) equal to the level of the spell.
All magical items have runes carved or painted onto them. In order to create a magic item, a character must have ranks in craft(runes). The DC required to successfully inscribe the runes into an item is 15 + the effective enhancement bonus of the item. If Crasis is creating a Longsword +5 Vorpal, the craft(runes) DC is 25 (15 + 5 for the enhancement bonus + 5 for vorpal). If the character fails the craft(runes) check, the materials are wasted and he must start all over. Note: In the case of metals they are usually salvageable by melting the item down and re-forging it (requiring other craft skills). If the runes are somehow damaged or removed from an item then the magic ceases to function. It can be repaired with a successful craft(runes) check equal to the original craft DC -10.
At this point, why play Pathfinder at all!
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Random thoughts;
1) All spells that normally take a standard action instead take a full round action to cast *and* do not discharge until the end of the combat round (which means that people can literally run out of range, while you are casting a spell, or run out of the area of effect of some spells, although you do not have to choose the target area until the casting is complete at the end of the round).
Any damage taken during the round of casting a spell can force a concentration check, even if the spell is cast after the hit occured, or, if the hit occurs *after* the spellcasters action, as the spell is still 'gathering', only to release at the end of the round.
2) Use a variant of E6 rules, but only for spellcasting (no spellcaster can learn or cast a spell above 3rd level, but they can gain higher level slots, if they continue to progress in the spellcasting class, which they can only fill with metamagic enhanced versions of lower level spells).
If you want to be generous with the one hand, as you take away with the other, you could allow a 4th (or higher) level spell slot to hold four (or more) spell levels worth of lower level spells, so that a 9th level wizard might not be able to learn or cast any 4th or 5th level spells, but would be able to prepare a bunch of 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spells with those two empty 4th level slots and 1 empty 5th level slot (up to 13 levels worth of these lower level spells). Some sort of limitation, such as no more than double your base number of spells of any one spell level, could be included to prevent this caster from giving himself four extra 3rd level spells with this option.
3) Any magic item that gives an enhancement bonus to something must be activated as a swift action. Belt of Strength? Swift action to gain the strength bonus for that round. Gloves of Dexterity? Same thing, and you can only use one of these items a round. A +2 Longsword will always count as a magic weapon, for the purposes of overcoming DR, but if you want that +2 to hit and damage, you have to use a swift action to invoke the power of the item. (Making a belt of strength and +2 longsword not usable together, unless you have multiple swift actions. The belt would end up being more useful for an unarmed fighter, like a monk, or someone who doesn't have a magic sword yet.)
Perhaps at 10th level, and again at 20th, an adventurer gains the another swift action, for the purposes of activating magic items in this manner. At 10th level, the fighter will be able to use is belt of giant strength and his magic longsword at the same time, and at 20th level, he'll be able to invoke a third magic item in the same round, like an amulet of natural armor or whatnot. Perhaps he'll only activate the belt and sword, and wait until later in the round, just in case he feels the need to call upon the protective powers of his cloak of resistance.
This might affect other items as well, such as rings of protection or bracers of armor (in which case the wizard will activate the best of them, or perhaps his headband of intellect, until 10th level, when he can activate two in a given round, if that option is in play).
At this point, why play Pathfinder at all!
If you're not going to contribute to the topic of a thread, why post at all!
At this point, why play Pathfinder at all!If you're not going to contribute to the topic of a thread, why post at all!
I assumed he was being sarcastic...
I mean, the rules I suggest would not really change the game at all, and full casters would probably still be considered tier 1 if you're into that kind of thing.
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Increase all spells by one spell level. This goes for NPCs, too. This will affect the Caster level, and therefore price of magic items.
Follow the "Low Fantasy" guidelines for treasure placement.
As GM, pay attention to the party equipment. Be sure they are equipped or tough enough to handle things with DR.
I think to do this right, you need to be wary for three things
- Non-magic classes. Make sure that the changes aren't too harsh. I think that the low quantity of items should be made up with higher quality magic items, perhaps borderline minor artifacts. Remember, King Arthur needed Excalibur and Frodo needed Sting, right?
- Mages. It will be hard to balance between mages outshining and mages becoming so full of convoluted flaws that no one will want to play them. I think limiting them to only 3rd level spells is too much on the latter side.
- Encounters. It's easy to forget that there are so many magic beasts, aberrations, and other horrors with powerful magic that can make mince meat of the party. Remember to tone down some of these encounters (or use less exotic enemies) so they dont overpower the weakened mages and the ill-equipped martials.
Personally, I have been pondering all three but it is too much work for me at the moment. Would be good to see where this thread takes us.
Not a low magic fan but you might want to let theplayers few magic items get more powers like an old school ring of pro doing saves and armor maybe armors have more abilities stuff like that will keep low amount of good magic items. High level spells have special materal components
Not a low magic fan but you might want to let theplayers few magic items get more powers like an old school ring of pro doing saves and armor maybe armors have more abilities stuff like that will keep low amount of good magic items. High level spells have special materal components
Play E6- that was my temporary solution until I could rip the system apart and put it back together again (which I'm still in the process of).
-Idle
Unless you plan to alter the monsters you will have to build the bonuses into the PC's. If not I would just go caster as a player. The above assumes you are fudging dice of course.
Tweaking the cast times would alter the flow of the game
Lower the spell level or otherwise tweak (increase duration, something) the magic weapon/fang, align weapon, type spells. To provide strategic decisions, same thing with saving throw bonus providing spells.
Allow classes to bypass X amount of magic/alignment/material based DR. IE for every 3 BAB reduce those DR's by 1
Watch spell and ability DC's very carefully as saves may be lower unless you add an inherent save bonus.
Try out Tri Omega Zero's suggestion of remove the +X in front of the magic weapon, instead the bonus to hit and damage is based on the class level of the wielder. so that there is little to no trashing of the old weapon for a new better plus version
make issuing commands to animal companions, eidolons, summoned critters and the like a standard action. casters have to decide round to round whether they will command minions or cast spells
I think a good idea is perhaps to hold off on the more exotic magic arms (flaming sword for example) and instead focus a bit more on stat boosting items.
Another alternative is using something similar to what 4th Edition did. Add half your level (rounding down) to certain stats. AC, BAB, Skills, etc. That might help a bit for some of the martial classes.
my take on it, make everything magic a hundred times rarer. Have nearly no mages, which makes magic item (creation) very rare and the items thus a lote more expensive.
Look to that every magic stays "hidden", let your group know that if a caster should "out" himself, you'll bring a whole world of pain to him. Like daily fight with slave-catchers.
this would be my take, you don't actually change much (except magic price and take more non-magic monsters) but it would feel like merlin times.
Of course your group shouldn't consist of too many spellcasters, except if that would be a plot hook that they run away together.
Can't be done. Meow, meow, meow.
OK, now that that is out of the way, let's figure out a few SIMPLE things that could make a low magic version of the game work. Obviously, things will be a little less powerful, and some concepts (inter-planar adventure!) won't work very well in this setting.
Here are the guidelines:
- Low Magic, NOT No Magic.
- Must be a simple concept.
- Must not alter game/class balance too much.
- Lets put a PC level cap of 16 on this for now.
Here are some of my ideas:
- All magic items cost 2X. This also applies to paying to have spells cast, as well as crafting.
- Crafting requires special materials.
- All spells of level 7 and up take at least a full round to cast.
- Characters may get some minimal increases to saves, ability scores, hit bonuses, AC, etc. These are not intended to replace magic items, just make it so item are not "required".
- Full casters get no bonus spells-per-day from high ability scores. Another option would limit the ability modifier full casters can add from ability score to 1/2 caster levels.
- No spell lasts longer then 24 hours.
Right, so what are you going to do to deal with traps and locks and monsters that are designed with a specific character progression assumed?
The first lesson to learn when making the game REALLY low magic is that the PCs aren't the only thing in the game.| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
This has been posted in several low-magic threads.
Here I a suggestion to non-magic enhancements
Acid wash (+4 save vs acid, rust, disintegration)
Alchemical chamber (Add Alchemical flask to dam)
Armor razors (Deals 1d6 Slashing)
Armor spikes (Deals 1d6 Piercing)
Barbed (2 pts Dam 1d4 rnds addition hit extend duration)
Bashing (Bash deal dam as if two sizes larger (1d3=1d6 and 1d4=1d8)
Basket hilt (+4 vs Disarm, +1 AC with Combat Expertise)
Bayonet (Deals 1d6 x2 Ranged -8 to hit and 1/2 incerment)
Bladeshatter (When any non axe, hammer or mace fails a attack roll by 10 or more the weapon tke 1d8 dam by passes hardness)
Blood groove (Casues 1 bleed dam every round)
Bow stablizers (+1 To hit)
Bowstring silencer (Make bow totally silent but reducing its range increment by 10ft/2in)
Buoyancy (-1 Check pen when swimming)
Camouflage (+4 to Stealth)
Caster armor (-5% Spell fail)
Crossbow shield (A small shield is attached to the crossbow +1 AC)
Crossbow/Musket scope (Reduce range penality by 1)
Deceptive (+4 Sleight of hand)
Dwarven forged armor (+2 AC -1 Check pen +10% spell fail)
Dwarvencraft weapon (Increase dam by 1 level +2 Hardness, saves, +10 HP )
Elven craft bow (Functions like a club when use as a melee weapon)
Elven forged armor (+1 Max dex -1 Check pen -10% spell fail)
Embossed (+2 to Gather info if stolen)
Enhanced bracing (+2 Dam set againt a charge)
Extended chain (+4 to Trip flails,chain, and whips and +5ft/1in to spiked chain and whips)
Extended Haft (+5ft/1in Reach)
Fast-Donning/Quick release Straps (No increased check penalty, -1 AC, Standard action to remove armor)
Fire retardant I (Fire resistance 5)
Fire retardant II (Fire resistance 10)
Folded weapon (+4 to Hardness)
Forestwarden Shroud (Negating the effect that undergrowth has on the wearer's Acrobatics and Stealth)
Grounded (Electical restance 5)
Heavy (+2 HP +1 Dam -2 to hit)
Heavy pommel (+2 to Parry)
Interlocking Plate (+2 to AC when moving no more the 5ft/1in)
Iron Sight crossbow/musket (+1 To hit)
Light (+2 To hit -1 Dam -1 HP/Hardness)
Lightweight (Lower category of armor type by 1, +5ft/1in movement, and reduce AC, check pen by 1)
Lined (Cold resistance 5)
Mercurial (+1 Dam)
Muffling (+4 to Stealth -2 to other dex skills)
Ornate/Savage (+1 to +5 either /or Diplomacy, Intimidate)
Penetrating (+4 to Sunder)
Percise fitting (-1 to check pen +1 max dex +1 Bluff and Diplomacy)
Perfect balance (+1 AC when taking total defence)
Perfect weighted (+5ft/1in thrown range incerment)
Pistol (Add a pistol to the weapon 2d4 x3 Range 5ft/1in)
Quick quiver (+1 to Initive when using a bow)
Razor sharp/Honed (+1 to critacal threat range)
Reinforced (25% chance of negating any precision damage)
Resilient (+5 HP)
Riding Straps (+1 to Ride)
Rifiled Barrel (+1 To hit +10ft/2in range incerment)
Rusted (-1 Dam, -1 HP, -2 Hardness, -2 save vs rust plus rust disease)
Segmented (+1 Max dex)
Serrated (2 pts Dam 1d4 rnds addition hit extend duration)
Shield blade/axe (Deals +1d4 slashing dam )
Shield sheath (Holds one light weapon drawing the weapon in the shield sheath is a free action and Free feint attempt)
Shield spikes (Deals +1d4 piercing dam)
Spidersilk (Make armor usable by monks, rouge, and ninjas)
Spring-loaded dagger (1d4/19-20x2 can launch Range 5ft/1in +5 to Sleight of hand)
Stability (+4 vs Bull rush +10% spell fail -1 max dex)
Teather (+4 vs disarm and if disarmed you do not drop weapon)
Tempered armor I (DR 1/-)
Tempered armor II (DR 2/-)
Tempered armor III (DR 3/-)
Tempered armor IV (DR 4/-)
Tempered armor V (DR 5/-)
Thin blade (+2 to diarm and bluff -2 dam)
Thunderhead (Add a blackpower charge to weapon +2d4 Dam)
Weapon pair (Reduce two weapon penality by 1 a matched pair of a normal and light weapon)
Vital coverage I (+2 AC vs crit effects)
Vital coverage II (+4 AC vs crit effects)
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+2 skill points for everyone per level, at least.
Encounters. It's easy to forget that there are so many magic beasts, aberrations, and other horrors with powerful magic that can make mince meat of the party. Remember to tone down some of these encounters (or use less exotic enemies) so they dont overpower the weakened mages and the ill-equipped martials.
Along these lines:
Up the importance and focus on monster lore.
Silver and cold iron weapons(and whatever other "mundanely mystical" materials punch through DR) may act as bane weapons against appropriate targets.
Introduce affordable and evocative solutions for everyone to take advantage of. For example, incorporeal undead creatures can't cross a line of salt.
Ability damage and drain and the healing of such need to be kept in mind as well, considering how many creatures dish it out.
Some monsters really will just have to be rewritten to work.
I like Mok's idea. Its hard to believe a world is low magic when you are still fighting beholders, dragons and other exotic monsters. Focusing on more humanoid and less planar enemies is a great way to get the low magic feel and keep the PC's on a level (yet challenging) playing field.
Of course, if you want something exotic, try and find a monster that has a weakness to a certain material, such as cold iron or silver. And if you do want a classic Dragon fight, you could probably tone it down some CRs. Remember, it'll be harder to balance the opposition than the PCs.
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Apprentice (Magic)
You can cast spells of meager ability.
Prerequisite: Int 11. Mentor, who can cast at least 3rd level spells or spell book showing how to cast spells of this level.
Benefit: You can cast spells of 1st through 3rd level upon reaching that level of ability.
Master (magic)
You can cast spells of more specific power.
Prerequisite: Int 14. Mentor, who can cast at least 6rd level spells or spell book showing how to cast spells of this level. Apprentice
Benefit: You can cast spells of 4th through 6th level upon reaching that level of ability.
Archmage (magic)
You can cast spells of the most stunning power.
Prerequisite: Int 17. Mentor, who can cast at least 7th level spells or spell book showing how to cast spells of this level. Apprentice, Master
Benefit: You can cast spells of 7th through 9th level upon reaching that level of ability.
Or something to this effect.
Apprentice (Magic)
You can cast spells of meager ability.
Prerequisite: Int 11. Mentor, who can cast at least 3rd level spells or spell book showing how to cast spells of this level.
Benefit: You can cast spells of 1st through 3rd level upon reaching that level of ability.Master (magic)
You can cast spells of more specific power.
Prerequisite: Int 14. Mentor, who can cast at least 6rd level spells or spell book showing how to cast spells of this level. Apprentice
Benefit: You can cast spells of 4th through 6th level upon reaching that level of ability.Archmage (magic)
You can cast spells of the most stunning power.
Prerequisite: Int 17. Mentor, who can cast at least 7th level spells or spell book showing how to cast spells of this level. Apprentice, Master
Benefit: You can cast spells of 7th through 9th level upon reaching that level of ability.Or something to this effect.
Hmmm... this is actually a really good idea. I think if I ran a low magic campaign, I'd probably use this
Other things to keep in mind:
You need to throw out parts of the system that are built on certain progression and gear assumptions.
Instead of using the CR system; you ought to just throw it out and gauge the parties power level through the understanding of their capabilities.
More opponents that are humanoid and have class levels. This has already been discussed.
DR to anything that isn't mundane should also be thrown out. Think about it. A monster with DR 5/Magic could in theory destroy entire towns before a Caster or guy with a magic weapon is found. Remove alignment based DR's too. Replace with things like DR/Silver or DR/Cold Iron, or even specific damage types- DR/Slash or DR/Bludgeon, ect.
Alternate Masterwork items should take the place of low level magic items. Example: A weighted Mace which makes it slightly inaccurate in exchange for more damage (-1 to hit +2 to damage) or weapons which buff combat maneuvers (Sword-breaker dagger gives +X to sunder, blah blah)
If your going for the "Magic is wonder" approach, don't allow any magic item which only provides a mechanical bonus with no other attribute, For Example:
A +1 sword is not ok, but a Sword of Flaming Burst is ok.
A ring of protection +2 is not ok, but a ring which summons a magical suit of Leather Armor and bestows upon the wielder the armor proficiency to wear it is ok, as long as the duration is temporary.
Require magic items to have a material component for creation. You can just assign a component cost if you want to crunch it away; or actually make the PC's acquire it otherwise.
Wands and Rods are also huge perps of magical "too muchness". When you can get a rod or wand of EVERY utility spell in the game; it gets too easy. I would suggest getting rid of them entirely.
In order to balance this out, you need to give out more Feats. I suggest giving out 2 feats at first level; and then a Feat EVERY level.
Lower the Feat requirements for many feats.
Just some suggestions, pick and choose. I'm sure none of them are original.
-Idle
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The two big issues with lower magic is. CR's will change, as PC's are expected to have certain wealth in magic. Things with DR will dramaticly go up in CR etc. The other thing to keep the balance you need to limit some of the spells. You could also shift all the spells up a level. cantrips become first level etc. That would help some as well.
Limiting some of the more powerful spells as well. Increase casting time which has already been brought up.
I have a table with varying weapon/armor quality here if you're interested in that direction. It's a .doc
Another thought is to give all of the full spellcasters the bards spell progression, partial spellcasters (Bards, summoners, etc) Paladin spell progression, and make the limited spell casters non-spell casting.
OK, here is another simple rule.
- DR/magic adds +1 to CR. Incorporeal adds and additional +1.
And really folks, considering it seems like half the people on these boards play with 25 point buys and max hp at every level; items being 2X and some minor caster limits shouldn't hardly matter at all. People need to realize you don't need a fully decked out super character to succeed in the game.
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Without doing a MAJOR rewrite?
Run using E6.
Limit PC choices to the following classes:
Barbarian
Cavalier
Fighter
Monk
Rogue
Ranger (any non-casting variant)
Paladin (remove spells - maybe add a bonus feat).
Add "Hero Points" (from the APG) and add the following ability:
A character may spend a Hero Point to ignore the DR of a monster for 1 minute.
Give out Hero Points liberally (perhaps 1 per encounter, and 1 per quest). These will be replacing many magic items.
Finally it's just a matter of tone - present the world as low-magic, and superstitious and then the players will buy into it.
You should still feel free to throw in the occasional evil wizard, wicked witch, mad sorcerer or cultist cleric of gods best forgot, but as villainous NPCs that the heroes must fight against.
There we go. All we've done is removed some high level expectations, and added only one major rules change. You've got a serviceable low-magic variant.
Without doing a MAJOR rewrite?
Run using E6.
Limit PC choices to the following classes:
Barbarian
Cavalier
Fighter
Monk
Rogue
Ranger (any non-casting variant)
Paladin (remove spells - maybe add a bonus feat).Add "Hero Points" (from the APG) and add the following ability:
A character may spend a Hero Point to ignore the DR of a monster for 1 minute.
Give out Hero Points liberally (perhaps 1 per encounter, and 1 per quest). These will be replacing many magic items.
Finally it's just a matter of tone - present the world as low-magic, and superstitious and then the players will buy into it.
You should still feel free to throw in the occasional evil wizard, wicked witch, mad sorcerer or cultist cleric of gods best forgotten, but as villainous NPCs that the heroes must fight against.
There we go. All we've done is removed some high level expectations, and added only one major rules change. You've got a serviceable low-magic variant.
+1
We played a game where magic was systematically purged from the land and all casters were looked upon with suspicion and thought to be consorting with evil gods. That said we did allow clerics/paladins but all that they could do was turn undead/heal/minor buffs/+ vs magic. There were magical creatures but they were rare and the major sources of conflict were between the humanoid creatures of the world (giants, goblins, orcs, ogres, trolls, etc.)
Low magic to me == Just some ideas for you.
1) Only 1-3rd level spells are available. (Higher level spell slots, can be filled with 1-3 spells or Meta-Magic Feat spells)...Exception made for Heighten feat, so it can work also.
2) Magic items can still be made, but only those magic items that can use 1-3rd level spells are possible. +4 is Max bonus for both enchantment & effects, on magic weapons and shields. Wondrous items (All Crafted Items), that require the caster to be X to make the item, can not exceed caster level 12. (example: Bracers of Armor require caster be 2 x the bonus = So +6 is max bonus possible on Bracers).
3) Character classes with (SU) ability do not function. (EX) works as normal. (SP) is caped at at 12th level effects and caster level.
..................
(SU) ability take the biggest hit, so no Druid Wildshape, or Cleric Channel Energy abilitys. These are the most unrealistic effects, and easiest to make you think that magic is a common ability.
Spell are also hit hard, but with Meta-Magic Feats and allowing Heighten feat to continue to work, this still allows spell caster to use a lot of magic. Although the trick is, trying to making the best use out of those spells.
Magic Item, remain about were they were, although weakened. The limit on what spell can go in them, will be felt. The caster level limit, will also limit what can be made. You will still have magic weapon and armor, but with max (+4 Total Bonus), it forces a chose between overcoming DR with enchantment bonus or selecting 1 or 2 special ability's, with a +1 weapon.
...................
Will say SU classes will be hit the hardest, BUT this also make it the most realistic. Druids, Paladins, High level Monk & Sorcerers, and some Specialty Wizards secondary ability.
These ability are just Lost, until you enter a Higher magic level world. Say a Medium level magic world. These classes will be rarer, and more challenging to play, do to the loss of SU ability's.
................
Anyway just some ideas, enjoy.
Use a 58 point buy!
Some of the suggestions I have read here are great!
One method my group has experimented with is to limit the number of class levels in full spellcasting classes to some fraction of character level. We have tried one half levels in casting classes, but this is pretty extreme. I prefer two thirds: you can never have more than two thirds of your total character level in a full spellcasting class.
This means that you cannot start at 1st level in a casting class. Obviously this will force multiclassing on spellcasters, but it makes for more multidimensional characters and gives them a fighting chance against the non-casters.
Other modifications must be used in conjunction with this rule; limits to magic items (we just doubled the prices, but I suggest limits on bonuses etc.), adjustments to certain creatures, etc.
Have fun!
I rigorously enforce Spell Components and I rule that spell pouches have all the components (less than 1 gp) needed to cast spells...once. No ever-full pouch of never-ending components. Wizards loathe it, but I am convinced it is why I don't think that Arcane Casters are as powerful as most people think. I actually think game designers intended components to be more of a hassle than they are. It is not a huge impediment, but it is not insubstantial, either. It also ups the Sorcerer a bit (the free Eschew Materials feat) and I find that it makes magic feel a little more like the 80s movie Excalibur, which is sort of the setting I am going for.
The all the Wizards are feat taxed with Eschew Materials at first level and you have achieved nothing but stripping yourself of ways you can stop the Wizard from casting.
Maybe instead of not having spells above 3rd level available, perhaps halfing the spell slots above 3rd level would be a better alternative.
I had a successful run of a campaign (went to level 14) in a low magic setting. I didn't want to redesign everything so my rules were you could only take 1 level of a class that granted spell casting of a particular type in a row. So I had a fighter/bard, a wizard/druid, pure rogue, and a pure paladin (went with 3.5 alt spell less optional class features).
The other house rule was players could only create temporary magic items themselves like wands,potions, and scrolls. All other magic items had a story behind them there was no vanilla +1 swords it would be something like this.
Wolf Friend
+1 longsword
grants wielder +5 bonus to handle animal and wild empathy checks vs. wolves.
once per day the wielder can take a full round action to howl this can mimic either cause fear spell or summon natures ally II (wolf only) CL 5th, the power resets with the rising of the moon each night.
The hilt of this blade is a wolf's head with moonstone eyes. The name of the blade is in elven script that can only be seen in moonlight.
Ohh that brings up identification of items, normal rules got you the basic info like +1 but the other stuff took some role playing and guesswork.
Limiting casters to alternate classes puts all most of the game changing stuff out of reach or off the table totally. Monsters still have normal powers/spells so a genie noble can cast wish and so on.
We did a very heroic ability score generation, I think 4d6 drop lowest reroll 1's. If I were to redo a campaign in that setting I would do point buy but start DC for spells at base 12 instead of 10 because multi-classing makes need for multiple high level scores to work well. That way a wizard/cleric can work fine with a 14-16 in both Int and Wis.
Seems to me a lot of "low magic people" just dislike wizards/sorcerers/casters and only bring them down in power but don't bring martial/melee characters down as well (or in the same amount)? How is that fair to casters?
It's not fair, but that is inherently because full casters are better from a balance standpoint anyways. Nobody cares about bringing casters down because they are the prime source of the "broken" parts of the game that most low-magic people rail against. They make the magic items. They have abilities which obsolete other classes. Their powers aren't "Feat Taxed".
-Idle
One thing that I'd do in a campaign that was specifically geared for low magic would be to get rid of detect magic, or modify it to a point where it isn't this "auto-scan" activity that can pinpoint things.
I'd probably go through the magic list to find other spells that make it too easy to get information. That is one factor that I find robs a lot of the mystery in the game, is that it is too easy for players to find out exactly what is going on, both in-game and meta-game.
I just adopted Kirth Gersens houserule for Detect Magic; which is to change the range on it to "Touch". This solves a TON of the meta-gamey autodetect problems. I highly reccomend it.
-Idle
Seems to me a lot of "low magic people" just dislike wizards/sorcerers/casters and only bring them down in power but don't bring martial/melee characters down as well (or in the same amount)? How is that fair to casters?It's not fair, but that is inherently because full casters are better from a balance standpoint anyways. Nobody cares about bringing casters down because they are the prime source of the "broken" parts of the game that most low-magic people rail against. They make the magic items. They have abilities which obsolete other classes. Their powers aren't "Feat Taxed".
-Idle
At the same time, though, I think some of the suggestions here might be much more harsh on the caster classes, making them alot more unappealing to players. Personally, I don't mind toning casters down, but lets not get carried away with nerfing them.
I really like Crimson Jester's feat idea. I also think the "Standard Action into Full Round Action" is a good idea. Hunting for spell components for more mundane spells would be a hassle so I think leave that for more powerful spells. Perhaps doing something with the arcane spell failure would be interesting, like expanding it to more than just spells with somatic componants. Outright banning 4+ level spells would be too much imo
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Along these lines:
Up the importance and focus on monster lore.
Silver and cold iron weapons(and whatever other "mundanely mystical" materials punch through DR) may act as bane weapons against appropriate targets.
Introduce affordable and evocative solutions for everyone to take advantage of. For example, incorporeal undead creatures can't cross a line of salt.
Ability damage and drain and the healing of such need to be kept in mind as well, considering how many creatures dish it out.
Some monsters really will just have to be rewritten to work.
Very, very good points. Like in the TV show Supernatural, every beastie should have something that a non-magical party can do to hold them off, repel them, weaken them, harm them or make them vulnerable.
Salt, holy symbols, this metal or a stake of that wood, the pealing of iron bells, nails in their shadow to pin them in place and prevent them from dimension dooring or shadow jumping away, etc.
Certain skills should be enhanced. In a world with uber-rare healing magic, the Heal skill should be flat-out better than it is.
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There's also the other side of the coin to look at. Instead of, or in addition to, cutting down on magical potency, considering adding a class defense bonus to more martial characters, such as the one introduced in Unearthed Arcana or Green Ronin's Advanced Gamemaster's Guide, and perhaps also add DR to mundane armor, to create another level of 'buff' to the non-primary spellcasters.
Forcing Divine casters to choose between prepared and spontaneous spellcasting, either keeping a prayer book of spells, using Wizard rules for spell aquisition, or having a small fixed number of spells known, like a Sorcerer, and therefore not having *every* Cleric (or Druid) spell available to them, could also cut down on those two classes in particular.
Forcing Divine casters to choose between prepared and spontaneous spellcasting, either keeping a prayer book of spells, using Wizard rules for spell aquisition, or having a small fixed number of spells known, like a Sorcerer, and therefore not having *every* Cleric (or Druid) spell available to them, could also cut down on those two classes in particular.
This is perhaps one of the best ideas I've ever seen. I am dealing right now with the "Cleric Sameness" problem for my own home-brew game. I hope you don't mind if I adopt it for my E6 game.
-Idle