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Multiclassing with Archetypes


Rules Questions

Star Voter 2013

Can you take levels in different archetypes for the same class?


darth_borehd wrote:
Can you take levels in different archetypes for the same class?

No. Archetypes are variations on a class. You cannot multiclass into the same class, so you cannot have levels in different archetypes for the same class. You can have more than one archetype for a given class if the archetypes do not replace the same class features, and of course you can have multiple archetypes spread through different classes.

Star Voter 2013

So I can take 1 level choosing one archetype and the second level in the same class with a different archetype, providing none of the abilities conflict?

Scarab Sages

You can't cherry pick. If you take an archetype you get it at every level, you can not choose not to take the replacement. If the archetypes conflict at any level you can not take both of them, even if it is a level you never plan to reach.


From the APG...

Pathfinder APG page 72 wrote:

A character can take more than one archetype and

garner additional alternate class features, but none of
the alternate class features can replace or alter the same
class feature from the core class as another alternate
class feature. For example, a paladin could not be both
a hospitaler and an undead scourge since they both
modify the smite evil class feature and both replace the
aura of justice class feature. A paladin could, however,
be both an undead scourge and a warrior of the holy
light, since none of their new class features replace the
same core class feature.

Also on the same page, but a paragraph above is

"When an archetype includes multiple class features,
a character must take all of them—often blocking the
character from ever gaining certain familiar class features,
but replacing them with equally powerful options."

Hope this helps.

Star Voter 2013

OK, but what about changing archetypes as you advance in levels?

So for the first 5 levels I am a standard paladin.

Then at level 6 I take the undead scourge archetype.

At level 9 I add warrior of the holy light archetype.

Then at level 12 I decide to dump the other archetypes and just be hospitaler.

When that doesn't work out at level 15, I go back to being a regular paladin.

Is that legal?


Archetypes must be selected at level one and do not change throughout the character's adventuring career. So, no.

You can take multiple archetypes for a single class, provided that they do not replace the same class feature. For example, you could take both the Warrior of the Holy Light and Undead Scourge archetypes for your paladin, since the features they replace do not conflict.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
darth_borehd wrote:

OK, but what about changing archetypes as you advance in levels?

So for the first 5 levels I am a standard paladin.

Then at level 6 I take the undead scourge archetype.

At level 9 I add warrior of the holy light archetype.

Then at level 12 I decide to dump the other archetypes and just be hospitaler.

When that doesn't work out at level 15, I go back to being a regular paladin.

Is that legal?

Nope. You pick the archetype at first level of given class.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
darth_borehd wrote:

OK, but what about changing archetypes as you advance in levels?

...[Examples removed for brevity]...

Is that legal?

What you are suggesting is most similar to the idea of retraining a character's class levels. An option like that isn't within the rules, but you could ask your GM for the option.

Bear in mind that asking to change as often as you suggest would be pushing things. I suggest that you find an archetype that you like before you start playing...


Not legal.

You're either a standard paladin or you're the undead scourge. You pick at creation (maybe prior to gaining a level where an ability gets swapped). You can have more than one archetype at a time, but you don't get to pick an ability from one archetype at say level 6, then at 8th take an ability from another, then at 18 take an ability from the main course. You stay in the archetype or archetypes you've chosen; there aren't rules for dropping them generally.

In many cases (but no means all), you'll be a character with one archetype as very often attempting to take a 2nd archetype causes a conflict when the 2nd archetype tries to replace an ability the 1st already replaced. You might be a hospitaler, but you can't be hospitaler/undead scourge/warrior of the holy light, because each one replaces abilities from the get-go, some of which overlap.

Scarab Sages

AS Mauril says you take them at level 1. You can not cherry pick.

Undead Scourge replaces
*Standard smite{1st}
*aura of resolve{8th}
*aura of justice[11th}

warrior of the holy light
*Spells[4th]
*aura of faith.[14th]

hospitaler
*Standard Smite Evil[1st]
*channel [4th]
*aura of justice[11th]

Now warrior of light can be mixed with both the Undead Scourge and hospitaler as it replaces nothing they replace. You could not however be a hospitaler/undead scourge as they both replace smite and aura of justice so can not be combined.

But yes you could be a level 1 paladin with two or more archetypes as long as they do not replace the same powers at any level


If I remember correctly, the Monk has the largest array of archetypes that can be stacked together. Fighters, on the other hand, can pretty much only take one archetype, since all of the archetypes replace the same stuff.

Silver Crusade

With all this in mind, can a sorcerer be both Wildblooded and Crossblooded?


Nightskies wrote:
With all this in mind, can a sorcerer be both Wildblooded and Crossblooded?

To be more specific:

What we are wondering is the following scenario:

You start as a sorcerer and choose the archetype Crossblooded (which allows you to to choose two bloodlines due to parents being from different bloodlines).

Now lets say your father is a draconic sorcerer so you inherit his draconic bloodline as your first bloodline (by choosing the draconic bloodline).

Your mother on the other side was a wildblooded empyreal and you then inherit her Empyreal bloodline as your second bloodline (by taking Celestial Bloodline and then choosing the archetype Wildblooded Empyreal).

To me it certainly should work, since Crossblooded allows two Bloodlines to be used (with some disadvantages included) and it is an archetype. Then taking two bloodlines (draconic and celestial). Then finally taking another archetype that makes the celestial wildblooded and thus becoming epyreal. Neither of the archtypes are changing the same bloodline (one adds an extra bloodline and the other changes a current bloodline).

Thanks in advance.

/Thrilled


Wildblooded and Crossblooded is rules legal, namely because, by RAW, the Crossblooded archetype doesn't modify or replace any abilities. It may look like it does, but there is no text that says, "X Ability modifies/replaces Y Ability" like in other archetypes. The bloodlines themselves are not altered, but how you receive things from them is.

Mind you, many might argue the other way (that Crossblooded modifies abilities), so ask your GM which way they rule, because that's the important factor.

The Exchange

I just realised that the Alchemist can choose both Chiurgeon and Vivisectionist. That is one hell of a doctor...


They both stack with Internal Alchemist too. All three makes a cool doctor indeed.

Sczarni

I know that some archetypes have a delayed 'effect' that your GM may allow you take after character creation, but your mileage may vary...

For example the 'Skirmisher' Ranger does not gain anything until level 5, at which point they gain 'hunters tricks' which replaces spell casting class feature.

If you were to start play as a Ranger 'Guide' and then decide by say level 4 or 5 that you'd like to also be a 'skirmisher' you could ask your GM about taking on this archetype as well - if I recall correctly the skirmisher archetype may stack with every other Ranger archetype so it may be allowed.

I don't know if this is RAW or permissible in a PFS game but I would allow this kind of 'late entry' into an archetype in one of my games.

Rogue 'Scout' is another one that may not change any class features until a later level...


Ok but what if you have the experience to be character level 4 lets say. Could you be a level 2 Witch and a level 2 White Haired Witch?

My GM is fairly new and we were trying to find a flaw in allowing that. The theory behind it being the player wants to have the hex class feature for the purpose of taking the extra hex feat every time feats are gained but primarily wants to level white haired witch for the cool hair abilities, rogue talents, but most of all for the roll playing value.

So far we've allowed it because we were not sure if it was actually possible. I understand you cannot cherry pick and take level 1 and 2 witch and come in as level 3 and 4 white haired witch. He would be essentially a level 2 witch/level 2 white haired witch. and if that isn't rule breaking is he then allowed to keep leveling white haired which while taking extra hex feat every time feats are gained?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ZYL0 wrote:

Ok but what if you have the experience to be character level 4 lets say. Could you be a level 2 Witch and a level 2 White Haired Witch?

My GM is fairly new and we were trying to find a flaw in allowing that. The theory behind it being the player wants to have the hex class feature for the purpose of taking the extra hex feat every time feats are gained but primarily wants to level white haired witch for the cool hair abilities, rogue talents, but most of all for the roll playing value.

So far we've allowed it because we were not sure if it was actually possible. I understand you cannot cherry pick and take level 1 and 2 witch and come in as level 3 and 4 white haired witch. He would be essentially a level 2 witch/level 2 white haired witch. and if that isn't rule breaking is he then allowed to keep leveling white haired which while taking extra hex feat every time feats are gained?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

White Haired Witch is an archetype of Witch, thus taking 2 levels in WHW is the same as taking two levels in Witch. It'd be like taking 1st level in fighter 4 times so you could gain a bonus feat at each level.

Plus, the breakdown you describe is ridiculously self limiting. Just be a straight up witch and take the hair hex, it's better than the archetype.


Thank you for taking the time to explain that. I had a feeling it would be something like that.

Then my next question, is there a way to get all of the hair grapple abilities gained with the white haired witch archetype such as constrict, trip, pull, and strangle to apply to the prehensile hair hex?

These abilities were more important to the player than having hexes. Matter of fact the only reason he even cared about having hexes is because his character is a Chaotic Evil cannibal who feasts on parts of his enemies after combat and he saw the Major Hex "Cook People" and got really excited. Again, we're more of a role play party than power gamers.

His whole motivation for this campaign is building a cult following around him being a "hair god" who only attracts followers so he my have a steady supply of people to devour... yes... you read that correctly.

Are there any feats that would apply to grappling while using the prehensile hair hex?

Again any and all feedback is appreciated.

Liberty's Edge

Improved Grapple, Improved Trip, Improved Drag, and their Greater versions.


ZYL0 wrote:

Ok but what if you have the experience to be character level 4 lets say. Could you be a level 2 Witch and a level 2 White Haired Witch?

My GM is fairly new and we were trying to find a flaw in allowing that. The theory behind it being the player wants to have the hex class feature for the purpose of taking the extra hex feat every time feats are gained but primarily wants to level white haired witch for the cool hair abilities, rogue talents, but most of all for the roll playing value.

So far we've allowed it because we were not sure if it was actually possible. I understand you cannot cherry pick and take level 1 and 2 witch and come in as level 3 and 4 white haired witch. He would be essentially a level 2 witch/level 2 white haired witch. and if that isn't rule breaking is he then allowed to keep leveling white haired which while taking extra hex feat every time feats are gained?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

IF he wanted, the way to get what he wants is, Take levels as a hexcrafter magus and levels as a white haired witch. the hexcrafter magus will get access to hexes, and feats will buy more hexes, and he can still be a white haired witch.


Awesome, thanks! I'll have him look into it tomorrow night.

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