Recently this has come up in the current campaign I am running and I would like to hear how other DMs deal with this sort of thing.
We have a druid with a bear, and a cavalier with his horse.
The dungeon entrance was under the surf along a beach. So the cavalier elected to leave his horse outside. The druid brought his bear along and has been having some difficulty.
I tend to like including skill challenges in my adventures(especially at the lower levels or in wilderness settings).
Specifically acrobatics(walk across a slippery narrow stone causeway), climbing(the cave ends in a 15' wall that seems to have an opening at the top), gap jumping.. etc.
Anyway... the druid player was getting frustrated with trying to come up with ways for his bear to surmount these obstacles. How do you normally handle this type of situation where an animal companion is almost a hindrance.
Sometimes the animal companion can't come along. In an urban setting, a stray bear wandering around would be considered quite a threat. It sounds like the adventure is designed against bears. Either modify the adventure (probably not a good idea) or the druid would know to leave the animal companion outside.
If my animal companion won't go into yonder dark cave or some such place, I simply kick em' that much harder.
:P
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Recently this has come up in the current campaign I am running and I would like to hear how other DMs deal with this sort of thing.
We have a druid with a bear, and a cavalier with his horse.
The dungeon entrance was under the surf along a beach. So the cavalier elected to leave his horse outside. The druid brought his bear along and has been having some difficulty.
Anyway... the druid player was getting frustrated with trying to come up with ways for his bear to surmount these obstacles. How do you normally handle this type of situation where an animal companion is almost a hindrance.
I generally hand wave any problems with the animal companions especially for classes for whom they are an integral benefit. I only focus on having the characters get around obstacles. That said I do periodically not hand wave getting animal companions through obstacles if it will increase dramatic tension or make a fight more interesting.
You can waste a lot of game time as players try to get their companions to navigate things and I think you are doing everyone a favor by just letting it slide most of the time.
In my game I don't pull punches on the animal companions. If the player wants to bring their pet then the pet has to manage the same things the player does. If this means tying the party together to cross a bridge so if one falls they all fall - I mean, so if one falls they can be caught, then fine. But I'm not removing the bridge so the druid's pet bear can cross without its trusty unicycle.
I've lost animal companions before. To be more accurate, I've killed animal companions before due to their players lack of foresight, common sense, and willingness to leave them outside to guard the camp or something.
In your case I would let the druid player be annoyed. This is a learning experience: not all caves are bear-friendly. The bear can wait outside, play bobstones* with the horse or something.
*Game played by rabbits in Watership Down. Holy %^$& I'm a nerd.
If my animal companion won't go into yonder dark cave or some such place, I simply kick em' that much harder.
Hmm, kicking animals. Sounds like a failure to revere nature. Goodbye class abilities ):
But yeah rangers can kick the animals down the street if they wanted.
I generally hand wave any problems with the animal companions especially for classes for whom they are an integral benefit.
So, if I pick the cleric domain option instead of the animal companion, you'll hand wave my domain choice if I pick one that isn't applicable to a certain situation? No domain ability is useful *all* the time. . .
okay so the general vibe is, the player picked the companion let the chips fall where they may.
okay so the general vibe is, the player picked the companion let the chips fall where they may.
I agree, except that it shouldn't happen all of the time. If you're going to run a campaign in which an animal companion will be useless more than half the time, you should inform the player before hand. If you're pretty sure this campaign is heading that direction, it may be time for the druid & paladin to consider changing their characters to accommodate.
I actually had that experience with a wizard in the game I'm currently playing. I'd taken the "Military Training" trait to get ride as a class skill, put max ranks in ride, bought a warhorse as my first in-game purchase, etc. After every single adventure from levels 1-4 involved being in small spaces underground, I asked the GM if he felt my pursuit of horsemanship would ever pay off. He thought about it a minute, told me the campaign would have very few outdoor encounters, and suggested that I swap the trait for something that would be useful. Now I have a wizard with stealth!
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I generally hand wave any problems with the animal companions especially for classes for whom they are an integral benefit.So, if I pick the cleric domain option instead of the animal companion, you'll hand wave my domain choice if I pick one that isn't applicable to a certain situation? No domain ability is useful *all* the time. . .
The comparison is flawed in that you can still take your domain into the underwater dungeon and if it happens to be useful then it is. Animal companion classes basically have to leave their pets at the door. Or even worse in the middle of a dungeon. I am not against using such barriers on a short term basis such as in combat but when a player can be denied a significant character benefit for several sessions then I have an issue with it.
The OP mentioned all the skill challenges he likes to put in at low levels or wilderness situations. A lot of a druid's power at low levels comes from the animal companion and for most druids the wilderness is where they should shine.
Every game is different and while most people seem to like to heap difficulties on their players I tend to hand wave a lot of things to save time and aggravation. I almost never play through travel anymore, time just passes quickly and they are there. At 43 years old with a family I don't have a lot of gaming time so I like to focus on the things important to us having fun.
If my animal companion won't go into yonder dark cave or some such place, I simply kick em' that much harder.Hmm, kicking animals. Sounds like a failure to revere nature. Goodbye class abilities ):
Slight of topic so spoiler added for a side discussion.
There is nothing wrong with a druid that is the fury of nature showing survival of the fittest and if his animal slave will not follow the orders of the alpha member of the pack... when that animal slave will just have to be taught a lesson on the pecking order of the pack.
Not that the above is an example of how I would enjoy playing a druid, but a player with a NE druid could very well make that argument and still keep all class abilities just fine.
One to the main point, there are some times when a pet is going to have to be left behind. At lower levels this is part of the challenge. Most rangers or druids in my game world will eventually get a collar that is enchanted with things like Disguise Self(or minor/major image), Reduce & Enlarge Animal. These three items will help get them around in towns or through smaller dungeons. Other items like potions of fly, spider climb, elemental resistance, or water breathing are needed at times for pets too.
If you have a lot of physical skill challenges I wonder how unskilled PCs (say wizards) get past them. Many of the same solutions might work for many animal companions. A Druid's bear companion is size Small until 4th level and only grows to Medium after that. With a high Str score I'd think bears would make good climbers, and IRL bears can go up trees. I'd think a small or medium bear with a rope tied to it could get past a lot of obstacles with a little help.
That said, one of the advantages to some companions is that they're very mobile. Apes have a climb speed. So do snakes, and they can swim too. Eagles can fly. If the bear isn't working out then the Druid is free to pick another companion. In addition to the animal companions available in the core rulebook there are a bunch of others in the Bestiary and Bestiary 2. There should be something appropriate to just about any environment.
Creative Director
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While I'm of the prevailing opinion that the animal companion is sometimes just gonna be out of luck when the PCs go into weird dungeons with things like ladders... I'm also of the opinion that the GM should know what kind of game he wants to run. It's his responsibility to keep the druid informed as to what animal companions might be bad choices, though.
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It rarely comes up, but occasionally a vertical chasm, or underwater entrance etc. has an obstacle that makes it difficult for an Animal Companion to deal with.
Sometimes the problem is the animal companion just doesn't like the idea of going down a particularly smelly hole or fighting undead/aberrations.
In any case if the animal companion has to use an unfamiliar skill such as Acrobatics, Climb or Swim then the first thing you'll need to do is use the "Push" Handle Animal task on the animal. It's a DC 25 to do so.
When successful the animal will attempt the unfamiliar skill - remember some animals have limitations that others don't. A horse can not Climb a rope, but could conceivably Climb a steep and narrow path. Make the skill check as normal and play the consequences.
As the GM you're within your right to cause the animal to become uncooperative if there are two many failures (increasing the DC of the "Push" task by 2 points for each failed check) as the animal becomes discouraged and eventually refuses to follow its master. In which case it will likely wait for it's master patiently at the dungeon entrance.
Druids and Cavaliers have Animal Companions as but ONE aspect of their class. It's a powerful ability and as such comes with some limitations and role playing consequences (just as a Paladin's code does, just as a Cleric's alignment does).
In any case I hope you found the above helpful. It was all extrapolated from the Handle Animal skill. :)
It rarely comes up, but occasionally a vertical chasm, or underwater entrance etc. has an obstacle that makes it difficult for an Animal Companion to deal with.
Sometimes the problem is the animal companion just doesn't like the idea of going down a particularly smelly hole or fighting undead/aberrations.
In any case if the animal companion has to use an unfamiliar skill such as Acrobatics, Climb or Swim then the first thing you'll need to do is use the "Push" Handle Animal task on the animal. It's a DC 25 to do so.
When successful the animal will attempt the unfamiliar skill - remember some animals have limitations that others don't. A horse can not Climb a rope, but could conceivably Climb a steep and narrow path. Make the skill check as normal and play the consequences.
As the GM you're within your right to cause the animal to become uncooperative if there are two many failures (increasing the DC of the "Push" task by 2 points for each failed check) as the animal becomes discouraged and eventually refuses to follow its master. In which case it will likely wait for it's master patiently at the dungeon entrance.
Druids and Cavaliers have Animal Companions as but ONE aspect of their class. It's a powerful ability and as such comes with some limitations and role playing consequences (just as a Paladin's code does, just as a Cleric's alignment does).
In any case I hope you found the above helpful. It was all extrapolated from the Handle Animal skill. :)
In general, this seems excellent advice.
I'm willing to wave some things by, but a black bear (or similar comparatively small ursine) isn't one of them. Yes, it gives advantages -- but at a price. If I, as GM, am successful, that "price" will occasionally frustrate the player, but it will also give them opportunities to do their thing. It's also an "opportunity for roleplay," as we used to say, although that's about as comforting as saying, "This will be a great learning experience!"
One other thought, re: animal companions:
If the bear can't come in the dungeon, that's reasonable -- but make sure that you give the druid's player some particular way to shine, such as a wilderness encounter before the dungeon where the bear can be quite useful. It helps lessen the sting, while still presenting the gentle suggestion that forethought is a Good Idea when talking about a large, toothy animal.
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Tell the bear to follow you, and then feed the bear a potion of gaseous form. It is a little expensive, but gets you through in a pinch. You should have that potion as an emergency backup, because it is the best "I am stuck and I have to exit now" backup plan. I have also seen animals ride floating discs, or simply tied in harnesses and lowered down on ropes next to ladders.
As a DM, I try for balance; the melee- focused PC is occasionally challenged by flying or highly-mobile opponents. PCs with strict codes are sometimes challenged with situations that could go much easier if they were to violate them, and druids are sometimes challenged as to how to keep their animal companions happy and useful. The key is neither to give the animal companion a free ticket to the show, nor to make the class feature more trouble that it's worth.
As a player, I plan ahead with my animal companion. Expecting to encounter narrow spaces and difficult terrain, I choose medium-sized animal companions, at least until high levels when so many foes are large, their strongholds tend to be large-friendly. I choose "come" or "heel" as tricks, so I can auto-succeed almost from lvl 1 at getting animals companions into boats or magical lifts or what have you. I keep around a scroll or two of reduce animal for if the animal companion must be carried, hidden, or made to seem less threatening to city folk.
As for mounts, the only thing I've seen work, other than in a campaign specifically designed to be mount-friendly, is a small-sized character riding a medium-sized mount. I love my halfling wolf rider!
My DM style is sandbox of doom so my reaction to sutch things is generaly "this should be intresting or ouch thats going to leave a mark".
Then again my idea of balance is "running is a survival trait"
His choice to bring the bear might turn out to be a benifit or a deterant but its his call. He paid his money let him take the ride.
I'd say that amongst our groups physicality is real. That is to say... bringing a bear along into a physical environment that is unfriendly to bears is... unfriendly. We don't hand-waive anything for those circumstances.
On the other hand, we've noticed things like dimension door and teleport become available at 7th and 9th level and preclude having an animal companion along until a few levels later. To ask a party to not use teleport to zip around once it's available, and wait until 12th is... needlessly punishing to a druid party member. I'd assume the animal companion has been productive and helpful since 1st level, but suddenly the party either has to leave it behind or simply not use an iconic and terribly useful ability. To that end we've invented reasonably-priced "companion bracelets", which amongst other things (status for instance) can allow for a companion to simply not count towards teleportation spell limits.
Bottom line is that we try to be reasonable. Swords don't always work. Spells don't always work. Animal companions don't always work. But systemic problems we work around.
Well thanks all for the input and the good ideas!
To those that asked how the party was making it trough the obstacles nevermind the animal companion. The party fortunately has a ranger that is decently skilled out so he was able to climb ahead and drop ropes for the party to climb or use for support when navigating ledges. Even a wizard with a str of 8 can manage to make a DC-5 check to climb a rope. But then the party would look down and there was the bear looking up at them.
After the first evening of difficulty the druid found the utility of a couple spells made things a lot easier for his bear. Namely Jump and Ant Haul. The party is 1st level so the bear is small.
Ant Haul lets the Druid put the bear on his back and navigate the obstacle.
So it all worked out in the end.
I'm going to have to figure out how the cavalier is going to get much use from his horse though. Most likely I will need to adapt the adventure to more outdoor settings here and there.
After the first evening of difficulty the druid found the utility of a couple spells made things a lot easier for his bear. Namely Jump and Ant Haul. The party is 1st level so the bear is small.
Ant Haul lets the Druid put the bear on his back and navigate the obstacle.
That's a fantastic solution, and I'm stealing this idea q:
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Tricks I learned when playing a Goblin Druid/Beastmaster through RotRL (with wolf companion for most of the way)
Saddle: if you can ride your companion, you stay right with him for healing/buffing, and can put your movement spells on him easily enough.
Barding: if the AC is going to be in combat, may as well armor him up.
Buffs: Sure, Longstrider is nice on the Druid, but a wolf with speed 60 (and acting as a mount) is better than a caster with speed 40'
Barkskin, Aspect of the XYZ, Spider Climb, and Reduce Animal are all fantastic if you have a Small druid & Large AC. Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, etc. are also pretty tasty for the critter.
Don't forget to train in Handle Animal and Ride. Those skills let you "push" your AC (not to mention regular old animals) to do things it hasn't learned yet (like fly as a bear - via Fly spell or some other means), and can potentially aid you in movement, etc. needs.
Edit: Forgot about the "unlimited carry capacity" trick.
Muleback Cords + Ant Haul + Animal Growth + Bull's Strength.
Cords:
Source: Advanced Player's Guide
Aura faint transmutation; CL 3rd
Slot shoulders; Price 1,000 gp; Weight 1/4 lb.
Description
These thick leather cords wrap around the wearer's biceps and shoulders; when worn, they make the muscles appear larger than normal. The wearer treats his Strength score as 8 higher than normal when determining his carrying capacity. This bonus does not apply to combat, breaking items, or any other Strength-related rolls except the amount of equipment or material the wearer can carry.
Construction Requirements
Craft Wondrous Item, bull's strength; Cost 500 gp
Ant Haul
Animal Growth
Bull's Strength
Let's say you have a level 9 druid with a Large Cat AC (typical Combat Pet / Spell Casting version of the class.)
Base Str for Kitty is 26, assuming the Druid placed the increases from HD into Str. Pretty much all day (18 hrs on Ant Haul, Muleback Cords are always active), the AC has carrying capacity of:
173lbs*(4[Str]*3[Large Quadraped])*3[Ant Haul] = 6228 lbs Light Load
For 9 minutes, that Str 32 becomes Str 36 = 306*4*3*3 = 11,016 lbs Light Load
With Animal Growth on top of that (now featuring Huge Kitty!) the numbers go off the charts.
Either way, that's over 5 tons of carry capacity for the AC for minutes at a time. For comparison, that's 550,800 coins worth of weight, before the critter starts taking penalties for encumbrance.