Not actually a post about the Ninja

[Matthew Trent]

My actual concern about the ninja is that rogues should have a trick like Rogue Trick:

Ninja Trick
Pick one Ninja Trick of your choice. This cannot be a master level trick and you do not get any ki.

[seekerofshadowlight]

NAh, the ninja trick/rogue talent wall should be removed. They are all just rogue talents with a different name so the less cool kids can't have them.

Simply remove the "we are better then you" wall.

[Jess Door]

I think ninja would be best served by making it a very simple archetype - replace trapfinding with poison use, evastion with Ki Pool, trap sense with no trace, not sure what to give up for light steps, and then just make the ninja tricks rogue talents - that ninja can expend ki points to utilize more often than a typical rogue can.

[Midnightoker]

Jess Door wrote:

I think ninja would be best served by making it a very simple archetype - replace trapfinding with poison use, evastion with Ki Pool, trap sense with no trace, not sure what to give up for light steps, and then just make the ninja tricks rogue talents - that ninja can expend ki points to utilize more often than a typical rogue can.

Who wouldnt trade evasion to get more uses of rogue talents?

personally I think alot of rogue talents are either taxes on the rogue (they basically need them, like fast stealth) or they are to situationally good and can be used to limited per day.

Heck even the skirmisher ranger gets 3 + wisdom uses per day of their talents.

[seekerofshadowlight]

Jess Door wrote:

I think ninja would be best served by making it a very simple archetype - replace trapfinding with poison use, evastion with Ki Pool, trap sense with no trace, not sure what to give up for light steps, and then just make the ninja tricks rogue talents - that ninja can expend ki points to utilize more often than a typical rogue can.

+1. Just add a line about ki pool can spend 1 point to reuse a 1/day talent.

[InfernosReaper]

The Ninja really should have most changes to distinguish it from the Rogue if it's going to be its own class. If you bring down the Rogue/Ninja Talent wall, then you might as well make Ninja a variant for Rogue(like those in Advanced Player's Guide). Or one could scrap the whole Ninja class & add the Ninja Talents & Ki Pool ability to the list of Rogue Talents, giving the Rogue who goes ninja an optional weapon set variant.

[Midnightoker]

InfernosReaper wrote:

The Ninja really should have most changes to distinguish it from the Rogue if it's going to be its own class. If you bring down the Rogue/Ninja Talent wall, then you might as well make Ninja a variant for Rogue(like those in Advanced Player's Guide). Or one could scrap the whole Ninja class & add the Ninja Talents & Ki Pool ability to the list of Rogue Talents, giving the Rogue who goes ninja an optional weapon set variant.

Jason has already said that the ninja IS just a variant like in the APG.

so tearing down that wall is more like a "why would we keep this up? it doesn't even make sense" more than a "If we take this away ninja's wont have anything"

the ninja DOESNT change that much, one of the only things it does change is it gets its own talents, for no real reason other than "but they are ninjas they deserve their own talents because... well... just because."

[Tempestorm]

InfernosReaper wrote:

The Ninja really should have most changes to distinguish it from the Rogue if it's going to be its own class. If you bring down the Rogue/Ninja Talent wall, then you might as well make Ninja a variant for Rogue(like those in Advanced Player's Guide). Or one could scrap the whole Ninja class & add the Ninja Talents & Ki Pool ability to the list of Rogue Talents, giving the Rogue who goes ninja an optional weapon set variant.

Umm, it is just a variant rogue... like those in the Advanced Player's Guide...

[Kryzbyn]

Its fine as is.