Now that we have the elven curved blade, I was wondering if an elven longspear (or any reach weapon) that can be used with weapon finesse could be made. Would it be balanced? Would it worth to take the EWP feat?
When I think of a pole arm kind of weapon it does seem to be more strength based with the thrusting actions than something finesse would help with. People would probably like a finesse reach weapon other than a whip. I cannot really think of a reason off the top of my head as the feats that lend the most to pole arms tend to be strength based like power attack.
I don't meen to sound like "that guy"...but from what little I've seen in regards to staff/pole techniques rithym, leverage, and speed are a lot more involved than brute strength. Though, I'm of the mindset that all weapons should fall under weapon finesse (I don't like house rules, so I haven't implimented this in my own games however).
in regards to staff/pole techniques rithym, leverage, and speed are a lot more involved than brute strength
As with Blades this is both right and wrong! Some Pole arms, true, are all about Technique and Speed, like the Naginata. While others, like the Pole Axe, are more brute strength!
Never knew that was the naginata style.
For me when I think of finesse polearms I think of the long spears used in chinese martial arts.
My understanding of the use of the Naginata is that it works much like that very same Long Spear!
My understanding of the use of the Naginata is that it works much like that very same Long Spear!Never knew that was the naginata style.
For me when I think of finesse polearms I think of the long spears used in chinese martial arts.
And you are very excited about that. And most of your other comments. I tend to agree..allowing Dex to apply to attack instead of Strength is hardly unbalancing, since they trade damage for their quicker reflexes and defense.
And you are very excited about that. And most of your other comments
I think that, it being 6am, and my lack of sleep being taken in to account, I deserve a little lee-way with my grammar and punctuation. But I must say, it is nice to see Grammar Nazis frequent Paizo too. Kudos for pointing out what I did wrong. I thank you!
Ciao. :D
And you are very excited about that. And most of your other commentsI think that, it being 6am, and my lack of sleep being taken in to account, I deserve a little lee-way with my grammar and punctuation. But I must say, it is nice to see Grammar Nazis frequent Paizo too. Kudos for pointing out what I did wrong. I thank you!
Ciao. :D
Oh look, and super sensitive about it too. I'd offer you a tissue! but it's already used. No one corrected your grammar, I said you were excited. A comment on how hyper you appear. Try not to drive that plank further into your eye in the rush to judge though.
Read it in the afternoon when you wake up, Grouchy Bear and tell me you don't find it amusing.
Though, I'm of the mindset that all weapons should fall under weapon finesse
This I agree with.
Strength being the deciding factor for attack always felt a bit funky. Like, reflexes and coordination and dexterity, how is that not the basis for weapon control?
Though, I'm of the mindset that all weapons should fall under weapon finesseThis I agree with.
Strength being the deciding factor for attack always felt a bit funky. Like, reflexes and coordination and dexterity, how is that not the basis for weapon control?
because you don't need Reflexes Coordination or Dexterity to hit someone with a large rock (not throwing it, just smacking someone with it)
Dexterity has it's place, but so does just hitting something.
but I'm in agreeance that most weapons should be finessable (there are some weapons that I'd just laugh and say "show me some finesse with that and we'll talk" (like earthbreakers, Mauls, greatswords, and other very large and unweildly weapons)
Now that we have the elven curved blade, I was wondering if an elven longspear (or any reach weapon) that can be used with weapon finesse could be made. Would it be balanced? Would it worth to take the EWP feat?
I don't think it would in any way be unbalanced to make a weapon like this:
Curve Spear, Elven
1d8, 19-20 (x2), P or S, reach, trip, finessable
You basically get a finessable long spear with trip instead of brace, or a finessable guisarme. To make the weapon more different than those I suggest the changed crit range and multiplier, which to me seems more in line with a dexterity based fighting style.
Not really sure if it is worth the exotic feat, but that is a concern for most weapons..
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You
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You
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Where was this going? Hmm..
So much dark but where's the love?
Oh yes --
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Yes I know, I should have gone for the toast but we are low on butter. Well, not the pseudo-butter that *is* part of a balanced diet but you ya know? Sod em I say. If I die chocking on animal fats so be it - I will die happy, screaming in agony, clutching the Emergency Override.
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ACTUALLY ON TOPIC
Elves already get free access to two very strong weapons*.
Also, I hate the pointy eared bar stewards.
Damn you J R Tolkien.
Damn. You.
So, no real bias then..... o_o
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ACTUALLY ON TOPIC
# Personally, I like the idea of a finesse polearm BUT please, if you value the children's safety, not another 'Elven' weapon.
Elves already get free access to two very strong weapons*.
Also, I hate the pointy eared bar stewards.
While I can agree to hating the sissy elflings, I hardly find it problematic to allow the get this one as well, if they are proficient with all martial weapons. They don't make the most awesome fighters, not even if they don't have to take the exotic weapon feat for this one.
While I can agree to hating the sissy elflings, I hardly find it problematic to allow the get this one as well, if they are proficient with all martial weapons. They don't make the most awesome fighters, not even if they don't have to take the exotic weapon feat for this one.
Aye, if an elf character is of a class that already gets full martial weapon access, not much is gained..
...however, if they're not a member of such a class their are obvious gains -- not all equal amongst the various classes but still, gains.
Maybe I am just bitter. I don't want any more freebies for the point ears!
We can have a finesse pole arm without slapping 'Elven' before its name.
Here, I made something for you, BeningFacist!
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Spear, Halfling Light:
Cost: 4gp
Damage (Small): 1d6
Damage (Medium): 1d8
Critical: 19-20 x2
Range: -
Weight: 3 lbs.
Type: S or P
Special: Reach, See Description*DESCRIPTION
This thin, flexible spear is used to great effect by Halfling Boar Riders. The shaft is typically made of strong, flexible wood such as birch or hickory. A bladed edge on one side of the spearhead allows for different fighting styles to make use of the weapon.Benefit: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a Halflight Light Spear sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon. While using Weapon Finesse, the Halfling Light Spear deals slashing damage; otherwise, it deals piercing damage.
The CUP sez:This item uses trademarks and/or copyrights owned by Paizo Publishing, LLC, which are used under Paizo's Community Use Policy. We are expressly prohibited from charging you to use or access this content. This item is not published, endorsed, or specifically approved by Paizo Publishing. For more information about Paizo's Community Use Policy, please visit paizo.com/communityuse. For more information about Paizo Publishing and Paizo products, please visit paizo.com.
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Where was this going? Hmm..
So much dark but where's the love?
Oh yes --
::
Yes I know, I should have gone for the toast but we are low on butter. Well, not the pseudo-butter that *is* part of a balanced diet but you ya know? Sod em I say. If I die chocking on animal fats so be it - I will die happy, screaming in agony, clutching the Emergency Override.
::
All I had was a banana for breakfast. More nutritional per unit weight perhaps, but hardly as satisfying. I have breakfast envy.
Here, I made something for you, BeningFacist!
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Spear, Halfling Light:
Cost: 4gp
Damage (Small): 1d6
Damage (Medium): 1d8
Critical: 19-20 x2
Range: -
Weight: 3 lbs.
Type: S or P
Special: Reach, See Description*DESCRIPTION
This thin, flexible spear is used to great effect by Halfling Boar Riders. The shaft is typically made of strong, flexible wood such as birch or hickory. A bladed edge on one side of the spearhead allows for different fighting styles to make use of the weapon.Benefit: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a Halflight Light Spear sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon. While using Weapon Finesse, the Halfling Light Spear deals slashing damage; otherwise, it deals piercing damage.
** spoiler omitted **
MORE POWER TO THE HALF PINTS!
All your knees are belong to us.
While you are at it can you make it a monk weapon so the monk can have a reach weapon.
While you are at it can you make it a monk weapon so the monk can have a reach weapon.
You realize of course this will only continue to trend into the ridiculous?
Here, I made something for you, BeningFacist!
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Spear, Halfling Light:
Cost: 4gp
Damage (Small): 1d6
Damage (Medium): 1d8
Critical: 19-20 x2
Range: -
Weight: 3 lbs.
Type: S or P
Special: Reach, See Description*DESCRIPTION
This thin, flexible spear is used to great effect by Halfling Boar Riders. The shaft is typically made of strong, flexible wood such as birch or hickory. A bladed edge on one side of the spearhead allows for different fighting styles to make use of the weapon.Benefit: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a Halflight Light Spear sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon. While using Weapon Finesse, the Halfling Light Spear deals slashing damage; otherwise, it deals piercing damage.
** spoiler omitted **
I would really suggest giving it something else (like trip as I suggested), to make it worthwhile for an exotic weapon.
If you look at the Fairy Curve Blade, it is a falcion + finessable + 1 damage step up + a minor bonus against sunder.Your suggestion is a longspear - brace + finessable.
BenignFascist: Why is there gains for the other classes? Being an elf allows them to treat elven weapons as martial weapons. Without the proficiency, they have to take the martial weapon proficiency instead of the exotic weapon proficiency. The only benefit they gain, is that they can take it at lvl 1...
BenignFascist: Why is there gains for the other classes? Being an elf allows them to treat elven weapons as martial weapons. Without the proficiency, they have to take the martial weapon proficiency instead of the exotic weapon proficiency. The only benefit they gain, is that they can take it at lvl 1...
Aha! You are right! I was thinking that they gained access to the stated weapons *and* all weapons with the word Elven in the name.
So aye, only a minor advantage/bonus.
Still..
..the prejudice is strong! No additional nice things for elves.
Not even relatively minor ones!
While you are at it can you make it a monk weapon so the monk can have a reach weapon.You realize of course this will only continue to trend into the ridiculous?
I was more refering to the OP, not halfling rage. a finessable reach weapon seems to fit the monk archetype and gives them a much needed reach weapon as popular opinion is they lack oomph compared to other front line fighters. A monk wiht combat patrol and a reach weapon yes please!
I was more refering to the OP, not halfling rage. a finessable reach weapon seems to fit the monk archetype and gives them a much needed reach weapon as popular opinion is they lack oomph compared to other front line fighters. A monk wiht combat patrol and a reach weapon yes please!
Aye - after reading an account of a monk character using a long spear (or was it glaive hmm) and making good use of positioning, combat reflexes/AoO etc I was itching to play one.
It is a shame that they need to spend a feat to get a reach weapon.
...especially since reach weapons + monks are fairly iconic/represented frequently in actual folk lore and legend.
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Which legends and folklore?
Go read!*
*..or not.
can you make it a monk weapon
Short answer: No
Weighted Sleeves:
Cost: 8gp
Damage (Small): 1d4
Damage (Medium): 1d6
Critical: x2
Range: -
Weight: 15 lbs.
Type: B
Special: Reach, Monk, Trip, Grapple, See TextDESCRIPTION
These impractically long sleeves have heavy weights sewn into the linings at the cuff. Monks skilled in their use can use this baffling weapon from a safe distance.Use:A single attack consists of one sleeve being extended. Characters that may make more than one attack per round through any means may use both sleeves independently, against different targets, as separate attacks.
Benefit: A nonproficient user must spend a standard action to retract a Sleeve for use again. A proficient user may retract a Sleeve as a move action. If she has a +1 Base Attack Bonus or better, she may retract a Sleeve once per round as part of a move action, standard action, or Full-Round Attack action.
A proficient user may also attempt to make a trip or grapple maneuver with a Weighted Sleeve. The CMB is equal to her Base Attack Bonus + her Strength Modifier; and the initiating grappler may make grapple attempts with her full CMB in successive rounds.
A failed trip attempt will not result in tripping the wielder.
Both the grapple attempt and trip attempt will provoke Attack of Opportunities as usual unless the wielder has the Improved Grapple feat or Improved Trip feat, respectively.The CUP sez::
This item uses trademarks and/or copyrights owned by Paizo Publishing, LLC, which are used under Paizo's Community Use Policy. We are expressly prohibited from charging you to use or access this content. This item is not published, endorsed, or specifically approved by Paizo Publishing. For more information about Paizo's Community Use Policy, please visit paizo.com/communityuse. For more information about Paizo Publishing and Paizo products, please visit paizo.com.
Edit: for clarity on usage
Quite frankly I can't see the light spear as a monk weapon, nor can I see the weighted sleeves as a finesse weapon.
Man this is fun though!
I would really suggest giving it something else (like trip as I suggested), to make it worthwhile for an exotic weapon.
I thought of that, but it doesn't really make sense for this weapon.
There is the benefit that a character can CHOOSE to use or not use Weapon Finesse to get the different damage type, and also that a finesseable weapon is usually piercing, while this is slashing. It may not seem like a big deal at first, but if you think about Damage Reduction, this kind if versatility is rather nice.
can you make it a monk weaponShort answer: No
...Weighted Sleeves:
Cost: 8gp
Damage (Small): 1d4
Damage (Medium): 1d6
Critical: x2
Range: -
Weight: 15 lbs.
Type: B
Special: Reach, Monk, Trip, Grapple, See TextDESCRIPTION
These impractically long sleeves have heavy weights sewn into the linings at the cuff. Monks skilled in their use can use this baffling weapon from a safe distance.Use:A single attack consists of one sleeve being extended. Characters that may make more than one attack per round through any means may use both sleeves independently, against different targets, as separate attacks.
Benefit: A nonproficient user must spend a standard action to retract a Sleeve for use again. A proficient user may retract a Sleeve as a move action. If she has a +1 Base Attack Bonus or better, she may retract a Sleeve once per round as part of a move action, standard action, or Full-Round Attack action.
A proficient user may also attempt to make a trip or grapple maneuver with a Weighted Sleeve. The CMB is equal to her Base Attack Bonus + her Strength Modifier; and the initiating grappler may make grapple attempts with her full CMB in successive rounds.
A failed trip attempt will not result in tripping the wielder.
Both the grapple attempt and trip attempt will provoke Attack of Opportunities as usual unless the wielder has the Improved Grapple feat or Improved Trip feat, respectively.** spoiler omitted **
I will take it sir! But then again, I loved the film "The Bride With White Hair" where "she" used sewing needles and thread to blow people up after grappling them.
After waking up and reading it again, yes I was a tad over-sensitive. My apologies.
After waking up and reading it again, yes I was a tad over-sensitive. My apologies.
I'm now realizing why designing this stuff is so difficult. I've already spotted like, 3 things that aren't addressed in the Weighted Sleeves:
I said the initiating grappler makes grapple attempts at her full CMB in successive rounds. I meant the Maintain Grapple check.
When the sleeve is extended, the hand on that arm is not considered empty. When the sleeve is retracted, the hand on that arm is considered empty.
The sleeve may not be extended when the hand on that arm is not empty, unless the hand is only occupied by Brass Knuckles.
Just to be clear, the sleeves are quite obviously on different arms. And there are only two of them.
Even then, there will be stuff wrong with this.
But I guess anyone using my crappy items will be house-ruling anyway, so they can deal widdit!
Even then, there will be stuff wrong with this.
But I guess anyone using my crappy items will be house-ruling anyway, so they can deal widdit!
Also, how about a fist weapon worthy of shaking?
Huh?
I totally got toast to make it worth your while.
Magic toast.
Also, how about a fist weapon worthy of shaking?
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Fist, Mighty Great:
Cost: 0gp
Damage (Small): 1d4
Damage (Medium): 1d6
Critical: x2
Range: -
Weight: 24 lbs.
Type: B,P,S,&G
Special: See TextDESCRIPTION
The enormous and imposing gnarl of knuckle and phalanges invokes admonition and ominous foretelling into the hearts of all that see it shaking.Benefit: As a move action, the possessor of the Mighty Great Fist may shake it in a show of disdain, protest, threat, or victory. All creatures within a 50 ft radius that perceive the shaking MG Fist must make a Will save against a DC equal to the wielder's Base Attack Bonus + Charisma Modifier + a number of rounds prior to the shaking wherein the wielder has spent full-round actions exclaiming their dominance or breakfast, or be dazed for 1d4 rounds, followed by being shaken for 1d4 rounds, followed by vehemently agreeing with the wielder for 1d2 rounds.
The CUP sez::This item uses trademarks and/or copyrights owned by Paizo Publishing, LLC, which are used under Paizo's Community Use Policy. We are expressly prohibited from charging you to use or access this content. This item is not published, endorsed, or specifically approved by Paizo Publishing. For more information about Paizo's Community Use Policy, please visit paizo.com/communityuse. For more information about Paizo Publishing and Paizo products, please visit paizo.com.
Oh we got moved to Homebrew. My bad!
Pork Pie breakfast.
This some sort of crack because I'm Jewish?
Pork Pie breakfast.This some sort of crack because I'm Jewish?
I can't tell if this is serious, unserious, or trolling.
Also, how about a fist weapon worthy of shaking?.
Fist, Mighty Great:
Cost: 0gp
Damage (Small): 1d4
Damage (Medium): 1d6
Critical: x2
Range: -
Weight: 24 lbs.
Type: B,P,S,&G
Special: See TextDESCRIPTION
The enormous and imposing gnarl of knuckle and phalanges invokes admonition and ominous foretelling into the hearts of all that see it shaking.Benefit: As a move action, the possessor of the Mighty Great Fist may shake it in a show of disdain, protest, threat, or victory. All creatures within a 50 ft radius that perceive the shaking MG Fist must make a Will save against a DC equal to the wielder's Base Attack Bonus + Charisma Modifier + a number of rounds prior to the shaking wherein the wielder has spent full-round actions exclaiming their dominance or breakfast, or be dazed for 1d4 rounds, followed by being shaken for 1d4 rounds, followed by vehemently agreeing with the wielder for 1d2 rounds.
** spoiler omitted **
Hmm..
It feels...
...good.
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Thank you misc.humanoid weapon crafter!
Thank you all for the topic. Sadly I cannot stay with you after we got moved to homebrew. I have to return to the SERIOUS areas of the forum.
Please discuss a lot of different stuff, so the mods can acknowledge that this is in fact a generel discussion.
Cheerio!
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Just a note for those who said they couldn't see a longspear as a monk weapon, the Qiang spear, used in various branches of chinese martial arts, varies from 7 to 13 feet in length.
Watched a show (deadliest weapon?) and the martial artist (some kung fu variant) was going all crazy jumping around. When they showed the force of the hit, it was relatively weak. I could definitely see a weapon finesse spear. With reach that counted as a monk weapon. Lower damage, better crit, and s or p damage.
I don't understand why this thread was kicked into the homebrew section.
I can't tell if this is serious, unserious, or trolling.Pork Pie breakfast.This some sort of crack because I'm Jewish?
Well, I'm seriously Jewish. I'm not offended by the mere mention of pork though...I thought it rather obvious given the over the top post of BF.
Well, I'm seriously Jewish. I'm not offended by the mere mention of pork though...I thought it rather obvious given the over the top post of BF.
LIES!1!
I don't understand why this thread was kicked into the homebrew section.
I suppose because people started throwing up propsed weapons to address the issues you and I brought up
1) The lack of a finesseable reach weapon. It is an issue i would love to see resolved hopefully in UC
2) The lack of a monk flurryable reach weapon whether it be the same weapon or not I dont care.
Personally I think they should be martial category options no need for EWP.
It also brings up the question of is there anything else that seems like an iconic finesse weapon that may be missing from the extant weapons catalog?
I suppose because people started throwing up propsed weapons to address the issues you and I brought up
By people, of course, you mean me.
Sorry! I said my bad! I was just having fun!Maybe there will be some new items in Ultimate Combat that make things more interesting.
I suppose because people started throwing up propsed weapons to address the issues you and I brought upBy people, of course, you mean me.
Sorry! I said my bad! I was just having fun!Maybe there will be some new items in Ultimate Combat that make things more interesting.
Dont feel bad when the topic is weapon or weapons to fulfill X role(s) it seems salient to the discussion, to me, to present options for such. Apparently the web ninjas at paizo disagree. :(
Perhaps the fist was too much.
Yeah. Too much fist.
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As long as we're talking about specially designed spears:
Collapsible Spear:
The collapsible spear can function either as a standard spear or as a long spear depending on whether or not its shaft is in the "closed" or "extended" position. This is made possible by having a main shaft with a metal extension that slides back and forth over the main shaft and locks into position when set properly. Changing the position of the metal shaft and locking it into place properly is a swift action. Due to the weapon's increased weight and different balance when compared to a normal spear, this weapon can not be used as a "thrown" weapon.
Two handed simple melee weapon, cost 10 gp, Dmg(S)1d6, Dmg(M) 1d8, Critical x3, weight 10 lbs, type P, Special: When the shaft is "extended" the weapon has the brace and reach qualities, when the shaft is "closed" the weapon has only the brace quality. This weapon cannot be used as a standard "thrown" weapon.