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VagrantWhisper wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
I just want to be clear this isn't about the rights of ownership in general, this has to do with specific issues of professionalism and inconsistent standards set and applied by the representatives of the company that owns this board.

Really?, you make it sound like this is a daily occurence that some Paizo staffer comes in here and steps on someone.

Does it have to be a daily occurrence? That is like if I punch someone in the face, and they try to sue me, and my defense is I only punched them once.

Silly Judge: Well you do have a point. Now if you had punched him 35 times I would send you to jail, judgement for the defendant.


Jam412 wrote:
Brian E. Harris wrote:
The Black Horde wrote:

We support and agree with Jason on this. We also have no problem with new alt classes or whatever you want to call them.

I'd just like to take this moment to quote Jason from the specific thread being discussed:

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

And please lay off using "we". Please speak for yourself.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

I think that the remark was meant to be "in character". Note the name.

More on topic, I agree that it is a bit unprofessional for Jason and Mark to have replied the way they did, however, I don't have a problem with it. They're human (i think), with all sorts of emotions and feelings and stuff. They can be provoked and baited just like anyone else.

This I can agree with. I think Cartigan has upset s few other posters, and that is why they are agreeing with Jason. If it had been a different poster there would be less support.

I am not defending Cartigan or Jason, but it seems that the opinions are biased when they should be made as if Jason's and Cartigan's reputations were unknown.
The "it's their house" argument is silly at best. You can come to my house, and I can belittle you, and of course you have the option to leave, but that does not make my actions ok.

PS:I am not saying the Piazo staff belittles anyone.

Dark Archive

wraithstrike wrote:

That is like if I punch someone in the face, and they try to sue me, and my defense is I only punched them once.

Silly Judge: Well you do have a point. Now if you had punched him 35 times I would send you to jail, judgement for the defendant.

Umm you realize that that pretty much happens? Right?

It's called moving from assault to assault causing bodily harm, up to aggravated assault, and in the worst case possibly manslaughter.

The point was that you shouldn't use hyperbole to imply a state of reality. If it was as frequent as is suggested we'd likely all have succumbed to its effect at some point.

As it stands, I frequently see 2 or 3 people (generally the same 2 or 3) getting told to watch their manners. Considering this board has potentially hundreds or thousands of subscribers, 2 or 3 occurences even on a weekly (because it's certainly not daily) basis is practically not even statistically relevant.


wraithstrike wrote:
I am not defending Cartigan or Jason, but it seems that the opinions are biased when they should be made as if Jason's and Cartigan's reputations were unknown.

I don't agree with that. If you have a reputation of negativity directed not only at other visitors but also at the staff, you shouldn't expect to be treated the same way as people who do not. This issue is actually only an issue because of reputations.

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It is sometimes easier to lock a thread than go back and clean it up.

I hate locking threads, because that means people have forgotten how to talk to each other and be respectful of somebody else's thoughts.

I hate having to go back and remove posts that have good things in them, but because that post devolved into "ur having BadWrongFun" and insulting another poster.

Please - remember that there is somebody on the other side of the screen reading what you wrote. We all have opinions, but do we really need to be abusive to somebody else in expressing it?

Write up your super-snarky post in Word (or text editor of your choice). Get it out of your system.

Then delete it and write something more reasoned on the boards.

Be civil to each other, pretty please and thank you.

Sovereign Court

wraithstrike wrote:

This I can agree with. I think Cartigan has upset s few other posters, and that is why they are agreeing with Jason. If it had been a different poster there would be less support.

I am not defending Cartigan or Jason, but it seems that the opinions are biased when they should be made as if Jason's and Cartigan's reputations were unknown.

I disagree, I think Cartigan's consistently obnoxious behaviour is an incredibly important factor to take into account.

If someone is consistently difficult then you have to deal with them differently to someone who occasionally blows their top and then apologises sheepishly later.

I do find that obnoxious posters diminish my paizo experience, I look back fondly on the RotRL days of the messageboards because there was so much less snark than there is now... No, that's not right: there was a greater sense of community. There was a really positive thing that has been undermined to some degree and that undermining should not be allowed to become complete.


GeraintElberion wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:

This I can agree with. I think Cartigan has upset s few other posters, and that is why they are agreeing with Jason. If it had been a different poster there would be less support.

I am not defending Cartigan or Jason, but it seems that the opinions are biased when they should be made as if Jason's and Cartigan's reputations were unknown.

I disagree, I think Cartigan's consistently obnoxious behaviour is an incredibly important factor to take into account.

If someone is consistently difficult then you have to deal with them differently to someone who occasionally blows their top and then apologises sheepishly later.

I do find that obnoxious posters diminish my paizo experience, I look back fondly on the RotRL days of the messageboards because there was so much less snark than there is now... No, that's not right: there was a greater sense of community. There was a really positive thing that has been undermined to some degree and that undermining should not be allowed to become complete.

I think ignoring people works just fine, but I am also very hard to upset so I guess I should take than into account.

@VW: As for the earlier post about me using hyperbole. That was not hyperbole. That was the exact situation which is why the judge was label as silly. Your counter example showed what might happen in real life. I think my example was more a more accurate because that is exactly what I saw when you said it is not a daily occurrence.

Liberty's Edge

With my teacher head on, I both agree and disagree with this point:

GeraintElberion wrote:
If someone is consistently difficult then you have to deal with them differently to someone who occasionally blows their top and then apologises sheepishly later.

I recall once a normally civilised young lady in one of my tutor groups was going through a rough patch and was really quite rude during a tutorial, both to me personally and to the group as a whole. Rather than have a go at her, I said something along the lines of "Enough" and moved on to the next topic.

Three hours later there was a knock on the faculty lounge door. The young lady, in floods of tears, had come to apologise for being 'bang out of order' during tutorial.

Everyone has off days, bad-hair days. But we still need to get along with each other in a civilised manner, leave our baggage outside the classroom door (or off of the message board).

Someone who persistently finds it hard to remain civilised, and who never seems to see the error of their ways and apologise later is in a somewhat different situation to my young lady. Her rudeness was unusual, and she regretted it afterwards - just showing I was right not to escalate it whilst she was in a bad mood, which would only have made things worse. Had she been a student who was often rude, that wouldn't have been an option.

Verdant Wheel

" I am really annoyed by Cartigan, DeathQuaker and Wraithstrike postings and i will consider quitting all my subscriptions if Paizo just not right now permanently ban them. " This statement would be sufficient aggressive to justify a lock against me? Just for future precedences.

Sovereign Court

Draco Bahamut wrote:
" I am really annoyed by Cartigan, DeathQuaker and Wraithstrike postings and i will consider quitting all my subscriptions if Paizo just not right now permanently ban them. " This statement would be sufficient aggressive to justify a lock against me? Just for future precedences.

Paizo have consistently responded to threats to withdraw spending by saying: "It's up to you where you spend your money but we're not goign to change because of it."

I imagine that is the response you would get, rather than moderation.

I honestly think that Paizo would be more concerned about aggression toward other posters than aggression toward Paizo. So maybe you'd be asked to chill out.

As I noted, you might have to be consistently obnoxious to really upset the paizo crew.

Sovereign Court

Megan Robertson wrote:

With my teacher head on, I both agree and disagree with this point:

GeraintElberion wrote:
If someone is consistently difficult then you have to deal with them differently to someone who occasionally blows their top and then apologises sheepishly later.

I recall once a normally civilised young lady in one of my tutor groups was going through a rough patch and was really quite rude during a tutorial, both to me personally and to the group as a whole. Rather than have a go at her, I said something along the lines of "Enough" and moved on to the next topic.

Three hours later there was a knock on the faculty lounge door. The young lady, in floods of tears, had come to apologise for being 'bang out of order' during tutorial.

Everyone has off days, bad-hair days. But we still need to get along with each other in a civilised manner, leave our baggage outside the classroom door (or off of the message board).

Someone who persistently finds it hard to remain civilised, and who never seems to see the error of their ways and apologise later is in a somewhat different situation to my young lady. Her rudeness was unusual, and she regretted it afterwards - just showing I was right not to escalate it whilst she was in a bad mood, which would only have made things worse. Had she been a student who was often rude, that wouldn't have been an option.

I'm a teacher and that was the source of my perspective too. If one of my students who has the self-image of "rough lad who doesn't care about school" messes with me then I know I have to take it seriously or he'll push the boundaries further. If Little Miss Sunshine kicks up a fuss I know a small admonition will remind her how she should behave.

One-size-fits-all ignores the reality that we are not all the same size.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Draco Bahamut wrote:
" I am really annoyed by Cartigan, DeathQuaker and Wraithstrike postings and i will consider quitting all my subscriptions if Paizo just not right now permanently ban them. " This statement would be sufficient aggressive to justify a lock against me? Just for future precedences.

Use the "Flag Post" button if someone posts something that really annoys you. It's not classy to issue ultimatums like "Punish this person or I'll quit my subscriptions," in a public venue. If you REALLY have issues with someone whose disruptive actions are that distressing, flag the post and email customer service. Or me directly at james.jacobs@paizo.com and I'll make sure that your complaint is heard by customer service.

Public grievances don't really accomplish much other than further fanning the flames, I'm afraid.

Verdant Wheel

James Jacobs wrote:


Use the "Flag Post" button if someone posts something that really annoys you. It's not classy to issue ultimatums like "Punish this person or I'll quit my subscriptions," in a public venue. If you REALLY have issues with someone whose disruptive actions are that distressing, flag the post and email customer service. Or me directly at james.jacobs@paizo.com and I'll make sure that your complaint is heard by customer service.

Public grievances don't really accomplish much other than further fanning the flames, I'm afraid.

Thanks :P But i didn´t ask to Paizo, i did ask to them. It´s easy to make passive aggressive statements against customer service and act cool as if the person behind the screen isn´t a real person. Sometimes the reverse can be done, just to know if they find it fun.


DeathQuaker wrote:
And it's MY money, I don't have to buy things from your spring sale, and you're stuck with a garage full of stuff you can't sell.

Can I have your stuff?

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