Well, Phalanx does best with polearms (you combine protection and high range threat).
Can Dex be raised to 15?
Armor training
Not only that. IMHO, Sword and Board is done better with two weapon fighting.
My intention was suggesting a build to fight with two weapons one of which is the shield.
Depending from what you need, this can be done with phalanx fighter, two weapon fighter or standard fighter.
Look for the Fighter class ability with that name.
If he's not going for a straight fighter (but, what else should he take levels in?) though, than we are in a whole other discussion.
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The phalanx soldier archetype loses armor training in place of Deft Shield and Phalanx Fighting, so Dexterity shouldn't be much of a concern. Phalanx Fighting lets him use a spear or polearm as a one-handed weapon while using a shield, so he can get the best of both worlds: shield AND reach weapon.
Also, you can't shield bash with a tower shield, so I wouldn't worry about the Two-Weapon Fighting either. Just get armor spikes for close encounters. Or Improved Unarmed Strike if you've got feats to burn (most Fighters do).
Obviously you'll want SOME Dexterity bonus since you'll be wanting to get some mileage out of Combat Reflexes (not to mention that it's a prereq for Bodyguard and In Harm's Way). 12 DEX should get you most everything you'll need. If you can bump it to 13, even better, since that will qualify you for Dodge and all the fun things that it plays off of.
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Whats so good about the dodge line?
Well, for a shield-based fighter, obviously more AC is never a bad thing, but a Dex of 13 also allows for feats like Following Step (and Step Up and Strike) and Missile Shield. Plus, the Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack line is a prerequisite for Whirlwind Attack, which is awesome with a reach weapon.
OP, a question: is the Phalanx Fighter mandatory, or you suggested it for the Sword and Board? Because it changes things, I would not suggest the same things for a Phalanx or a S&B Core fighter.
I'd personally go Phalanx Soldier for Poearm&Shield.
For standard S&B, I'd keep the standard core fighter or even the TWF one.
Actually, it depends from the stat array and the starting level.
My ideal S&B fighter has
- TWF and ITWF;
- Shield Slam and Improved Bull rush
- Combat Expertise and Improved Trip
- Combat Reflexes and Combat Patrol.
Which is quite feat intensive but can be done. Giving the stats of your PC would help.
15 Point buy = Phalanx
20+ Point buy = Sword & Board TWF.
You need lots of points to make a TWF sword & board viable. Dex19 on TOP of good str and decent con.
15 Point buy = Phalanx
20+ Point buy = Sword & Board TWF.
You need lots of points to make a TWF sword & board viable. Dex19 on TOP of good str and decent con.
To be fair, that's not until high levels though, and I think you can well skip GTWF. Another attack at -10 with an off-hand weapon isn't that important IMO. And even if you want it, at 11th level I'd MUCH rather take Shield Master, so you don't need it until 12th level where you get a stat bump.
But I think you can do well with 17 dex by 6th level and then never touch dex again. And that could be gained through items
15 Point buy = Phalanx
20+ Point buy = Sword & Board TWF.
You need lots of points to make a TWF sword & board viable. Dex19 on TOP of good str and decent con.
To be fair, that's not until high levels though, and I think you can well skip GTWF. Another attack at -10 with an off-hand weapon isn't that important IMO. And even if you want it, at 11th level I'd MUCH rather take Shield Master, so you don't need it until 12th level where you get a stat bump.
But I think you can do well with 17 dex by 6th level and then never touch dex again. And that could be gained through items
That means Dex16 at lv1. Then you'd be lucky to get a str16 and a con 14, which is more or less minimums for a useful combatant (20 points after racial +2 to str or dex). A penalty-monkey like a TWF S&B (-4/-4) SHOULD have an 18 in str though (25 points). Viable if you tank cha and int, and drop Con to 13 for lv1-7.
Str:18
Dex:16
Con:13
Int:7
Wis:10
Cha:7
For example.
Not only that. IMHO, Sword and Board is done better with two weapon fighting.
My intention was suggesting a build to fight with two weapons one of which is the shield.
Depending from what you need, this can be done with phalanx fighter, two weapon fighter or standard fighter.
+1
Very sound advice.
Shield Bash fighters really make the best tanks. They get shield AC so of course their AC is phenomenal and they get most of the damage dealing potential of a two-weapon fighter, meaning they're extremely hard to ignore in combat. He doesn't get all the damage of TWF due to his offhand weapon not being enchanted properly, but the tank shouldn't have to be the guy that takes things down anyway, he just has to keep the other guy's attention while your rogue steps in behind him for sneak attack goodness ;). An excellent combination of survivability and damage-dealing potential, the Shield Basher is one of the better choices for a party's primary tank role ^_^
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Shield Bash fighters really make the best tanks. They get shield AC so of course their AC is phenomenal and they get most of the damage dealing potential of a two-weapon fighter, meaning they're extremely hard to ignore in combat. He doesn't get all the damage of TWF due to his offhand weapon not being enchanted properly, but the tank shouldn't have to be the guy that takes things down anyway, he just has to keep the other guy's attention while your rogue steps in behind him for sneak attack goodness ;). An excellent combination of survivability and damage-dealing potential, the Shield Basher is one of the better choices for a party's primary tank role ^_^
Considered using a paladin for this? Much better saves, healing abilities for staying power and (if evil) smite powers which makes him hard to ignore... Shield and board TWF still functions well, but both shield and board gets a + to hit and damage from the smite... For tanking purposes he could outlast the fighter...
20 point buy S&B
Str:16
Dex:16
Con:14
Int:13
Wis:11
Cha:7
Put first stat increase in Dex, and then Str all the way. Go human, for 1 bonus feat at level 1 (feat intensive build) and with int 13 you get 4 skill level, so you are not just the Big Stupid Fighter.
No need for the GWF IMHO. Better keep feat slots for more control things like Stunning Assault or Teleport Tactician at high levels.
Power Attack, Two weapon Fighting and Combat Reflexes level 1
Combat Expertise level 2
Improved Trip level 3
Improved Shield Bash level 4
Dodge level 5
Shield Slam level 6
Improved Two Weapon fighting Level 7
Greater Trip Level 8
Mobility level 9
Combat patrol level 10
After that, your tastes. Improved Bull Rush to improve slams, more maneuvers, teamworks, dazing assault....
Put weapon master first on shields, then flail and chains. Use weapons accordingly.
Remember: do not think you take a feat for prerequitites only. using EACH feat listed at the maximum advantage will make you a good fighter. Go Two hand and Power Attack if the situation just needs damage, or throw a net, bolas or smokestick if required. Use teamwork, be smart and prepared.
Don't be afraid of delay the dodge line for Deadly Aim or even Quickdraw if the campaing needs it.
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20 point buy S&B
Str:16
Dex:16
Con:14
Int:13
Wis:11
Cha:7Put first stat increase in Dex, and then Str all the way. Go human, for 1 bonus feat at level 1 (feat intensive build) and with int 13 you get 4 skill level, so you are not just the Big Stupid Fighter.
No need for the GWF IMHO. Better keep feat slots for more control things like Stunning Assault or Teleport Tactician at high levels.
Power Attack, Two weapon Fighting and Combat Reflexes level 1
Combat Expertise level 2
Improved Trip level 3
Improved Shield Bash level 4
Dodge level 5
Shield Slam level 6
Improved Two Weapon fighting Level 7
Greater Trip Level 8
Mobility level 9
Combat patrol level 10
After that, your tastes. Improved Bull Rush to improve slams, more maneuvers, teamworks, dazing assault....
Put weapon master first on shields, then flail and chains. Use weapons accordingly.
Remember: do not think you take a feat for prerequitites only. using EACH feat listed at the maximum advantage will make you a good fighter. Go Two hand and Power Attack if the situation just needs damage, or throw a net, bolas or smokestick if required. Use teamwork, be smart and prepared.
Don't be afraid of delay the dodge line for Deadly Aim or even Quickdraw if the campaing needs it.
Wait...no...how is that 20 point buy? I just made this exact stat buy 30 minutes ago for a new Sword and Flail fighter I'm making and its a 25 point buy.
Either my excel spreadsheet for point buy is wrong or I missed something.
Otherwise, it's 20 point buy.
If with point buy is not possible, just get rid of combat expertise and add in feats to increase DPR and more control stuff like step up.
@question: is made with base fighter. I prefer it for pure S&B, wihtou polearms.
It is a 20 point buy.....
Str 14
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 11
Cha 7
Put human bonus in strength and the stat array ends...
S16, D16, C14, I13, W11, Ch7
APG Variants:
Shielded Fighter is not better than a Core fighter, simply because he is specializing in a defensive weapon that most things at high level are going to be able to ignore.
Two-Weapon Fighter is better than core if the character will be using the same non-light melee weapon in both hands. Otherwise, the core fighter is superior.
Phalanx Fighter is a bit of a deceptive cookie. Most of its abilities look fantastic, until you take in to consideration that you can't bash with a tower shield, and the best perks of the AT come from....using a tower shield. So you get "half-bonuses" from the abilities which are handy, but do not really take it above the core fighter. Personally, armor training and weapon training are just too good to trade in for the bonuses listed under this AT for non-flavor characters. But if you are planning to make a roman, you cannot go wrong with the phalanx fighter.
Just my 2cp, YMMV.
15 Point buy = Phalanx
20+ Point buy = Sword & Board TWF.
You need lots of points to make a TWF sword & board viable. Dex19 on TOP of good str and decent con.
To be fair, that's not until high levels though, and I think you can well skip GTWF. Another attack at -10 with an off-hand weapon isn't that important IMO. And even if you want it, at 11th level I'd MUCH rather take Shield Master, so you don't need it until 12th level where you get a stat bump.
But I think you can do well with 17 dex by 6th level and then never touch dex again. And that could be gained through items
That means Dex16 at lv1. Then you'd be lucky to get a str16 and a con 14, which is more or less minimums for a useful combatant (20 points after racial +2 to str or dex). A penalty-monkey like a TWF S&B (-4/-4) SHOULD have an 18 in str though (25 points). Viable if you tank cha and int, and drop Con to 13 for lv1-7.
Str:18
Dex:16
Con:13
Int:7
Wis:10
Cha:7For example.
Note that a high dex reduces the need for a high con because of AC and initiative bonuses.
S&B generally uses light shield until attack bonuses starts to outdo AC, so the penalty is -2/-2. If you're dead set on using a large shield and don't have a rules-lawyering DM set on destroying your life, you could go large shield + shortsword or similiar otherwise.
And 6th level WBL is 16000 gp, and this is before AC is irrelevant so I could very well spend that on a belt of dex +2. That way, the strength penalty won't hit you as hard at level 1. That's a matter of taste though, I guess.
You could also delay Improved TWF to level 8, and thus need only start with 15. There's plenty of good fighter feats to take levels 6 and 7 anyway. Focusing on bull rushes/shield slam is one possibility.
Here is a copy of my TWF Sword & Board fighter. You would have to adjust the stats because these were rolled, not a point buy. But the basis is sound.
I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, but I feel you could do this another way. First I would forget the phalanx fighting altogether. I would go standard fighter; pick my fist feats as so: combat reflexes, two weapon fighting, and improved shield bash. With a my stat line up focusing more on dexterity than strength. 2nd level weapon finesse. At 3rd level two weapon defense, weapon group close quarters (heavy shield), shield slam, 4th sword and shield synergy, 5th shield focus, 6th, weapon group light blades ( short sword) and improved two weapon fighting, 7th shield mastery, 8th dodge, 9th mobility, 10th psionic dodge, 11th greater two weapon fighting. 12th combat expertise and weapon group (throwing) for pilums. Also pick spears as your weapon gourd at 15th also for the pilum ( yes it's there). At 13th take missile shield, 14th disruptive, 15th spell breaker, 16th ray shield, 17th shield specialization, 18th vital strike, 19th improved vital strike, 20th greater vital strike. Mad if you can some how convince your GM for three more feats psionic weapon, greater psionic weapon combat patrol. Also I recommend going with a medium armor like breast plate for the armor training ability. Don' t take a tower shield not worth it one again this is just my take on it.