paizo.com Recent Posts in Death Warden (Paladin)paizo.com Recent Posts in Death Warden (Paladin)2012-11-15T23:09:52Z2012-11-15T23:09:52ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Ask A RPGSupersuccubus (alias of Charles Evans 25)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#392011-02-01T22:27:44Z2011-02-01T22:27:44Z<p><span class=messageboard-ooc>Disclaimer:
<br />
Ask A RPGSupersuccubus is posting from the point of view of a CE aligned succubus; and in the language of the Abyss ‘sorry’ is what you make others after you’ve had a bad day, ‘commiserations’ is the concept whereby if you’ve had a <i>miserable</i> day you go out and make others at <i>least</i> as unhappy as you are, and ‘sympathy’ is military jargon for a popular model of half a mile high siege-tower with spiked wheels, ballistae and fireball hurling catapults. (By way of explanation for the latter it’s a demonic joke: ‘See, we have sympathy for your situation’.) </span>
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Obligatory End of Round 2 Results Post: [Spoiler omitted]
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See you around another year, perhaps. Or maybe sooner if you feel like sticking around to post for the duration of this year’s contest... <span class=messageboard-ooc>;) </span></p>Disclaimer:
Ask A RPGSupersuccubus is posting from the point of view of a CE aligned succubus; and in the language of the Abyss ‘sorry’ is what you make others after you’ve had a bad day, ‘commiserations’ is the concept whereby if you’ve had a miserable day you go out and make others at least as unhappy as you are, and ‘sympathy’ is military jargon for a popular model of half a mile high siege-tower with spiked wheels, ballistae and fireball hurling catapults. (By way of explanation for the...Ask A RPGSupersuccubus (alias of Charles Evans 25)2011-02-01T22:27:44ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Kenneth.T.Colehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#382011-01-31T22:29:08Z2011-01-31T22:29:08Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sue Flaherty wrote:</div><blockquote> <b>Death Warden (Paladin)</b> </blockquote><p>While this is a good concept, it's an old one. I know that we probably need a Paladin focused on fighting undead, but that's almost a gimme in later books. I thought your ability choices were very obvious, and there was little done creatively here.
<p>Just my thoughts,
<br />
Ken</p>Sue Flaherty wrote:Death Warden (Paladin)
While this is a good concept, it's an old one. I know that we probably need a Paladin focused on fighting undead, but that's almost a gimme in later books. I thought your ability choices were very obvious, and there was little done creatively here. Just my thoughts,
KenKenneth.T.Cole2011-01-31T22:29:08ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Steven Helthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#372011-01-30T19:40:54Z2011-01-30T19:40:54Z<p>SOme troubling errors here. Why not play a core paladin and retains the ability to smite anything evil? The party will want to know why I chose a character that can't deal double damage to the vrocks during their dance of death. What am I getting for it? Same thing for detecting evil. I can detect any evil, which is more insidious than undead. Evil doesn't smell like rot as often. Evil doesn't always attack from the shadows or underground or in graveyards. But undead are mostly evil, so giving up the abiltity to detect the larger number of threats nees to come with a new advantage, which I don't really see. </p>
<p>Writing is clunky and very short, and presentation doesn't really stick to the style for archetypes presented in the APG. How many abilities in the APG start off by naming the ability they are replacing?</p>
<p>The death ward ability is not an aura, and doesn't replace anything. Is <i>death ward</i> a couple of times a week supposed to replace all the paladni's lost efficiency v other forms of evil? </p>
<p>If the adventure has big bads in it that aren't undead, this guy is a fighter with no feats. And the worst part is, as Mr. Bailey says, that undead already have it harder in Pathfinder than they ever have. The rogue can crit me, the smite lasts the whole round, and would last longer if it didn't kill me. I got d8s for hit dice and there's more magic devoted to inconveneincing me and making you immune to my stuff hat I can hardly cause any temporary trouble, let alone a permanent negative level. You'll maybe note from my avatar this is a sore spot with me. : b</p>
<p>But in seriousness, you have duplicated an existing archetype and not done it very well. In so doing you have neutered the class for the vast majority of conflicts and not presented any new mechanics.</p>SOme troubling errors here. Why not play a core paladin and retains the ability to smite anything evil? The party will want to know why I chose a character that can't deal double damage to the vrocks during their dance of death. What am I getting for it? Same thing for detecting evil. I can detect any evil, which is more insidious than undead. Evil doesn't smell like rot as often. Evil doesn't always attack from the shadows or underground or in graveyards. But undead are mostly evil, so...Steven Helt2011-01-30T19:40:54ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Curaighhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#362011-01-30T07:14:28Z2011-01-30T07:14:28Z<p>Nice Sue, Simple and to the point. I think enough others have already stated the undercutting as not exciting. I think you have shown that archetyping does not have to be complicated to work. Focus on your wow for next round.</p>Nice Sue, Simple and to the point. I think enough others have already stated the undercutting as not exciting. I think you have shown that archetyping does not have to be complicated to work. Focus on your wow for next round.Curaigh2011-01-30T07:14:28ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Joe Wellshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#352011-01-30T05:06:39Z2011-01-30T05:06:39Z<p>Hrm. No, I'm sorry. The undead scourge paladin has already been done and this doesn't bring much new to the table.</p>Hrm. No, I'm sorry. The undead scourge paladin has already been done and this doesn't bring much new to the table.Joe Wells2011-01-30T05:06:39ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Azmahelhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#342011-01-29T17:47:30Z2011-01-29T17:47:30Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sue Flaherty wrote:</div><blockquote><p> <b>Death Warden (Paladin)</b>
</p>
</blockquote><p><span class=messageboard-ooc>Disclaimer: My ranking scheme for this round consists of given marks form 0 to 4 in the following three categories:
</p>
1.Is the Archetype conceptually interesting?
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2.Are the mechanics of the Archetype interesting?
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3.Are the mechanics of the Archetype balanced and well executed?
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But rather than simply adding up the marks for a final score I'm gonna interpret them as a point in 3-dimensional space and the final mark of your submission will be the length of the vector between the origin and this point.
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Note that my ranking doesn't need to directly correspond with my votes, as other factors like: Strength of your item submission, mood, my horrorscope and other random stuff still factor in. Also note that this scheme is highly subjective and only mirrors my perception and opinion about your archetype submission.</span></p>
<p><b>Conceptual Mojo (CM):</b> 2, Anti undead paladin is a sound concept, but there is already an archetype for this and the pharasma tack on doesn't redeem this</p>
<p><b>Mechanical Mojo (MM):</b> 1, This just limits about all the paladins abilities to undead, since about all undead creatures are also evil that is a huge power down. I would have liked to see something like an undead-pulverizing lay on hands, complete with specific mercies.</p>
<p><b>Mechanical Execution (ME):</b> 1, The only thing that is stronger as the original paladin is the added death ward ( usable a few times per week!), and the DR/undead, which is something without precedent and a can of worms. When does a weapon count as undead? What enhancement bonus do you need to pierce it regardless? (+4 as with alignments, or +3 as with materials? )</p>
<p>Final note: This has been done before and better, I wonder if the only thing you can come up with is pharasma themed stuff, and the only pharasma archetype you got was this so you went with it nonetheless. Otherwise you didn't familiarize yourself with the existing archetypes enough.
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Some problems with rules knowledge too: odd things like DR/undead and the missed errata for smite evil, redoing an existing archetype...</p>
<p>Total Score: 2.449</p>Sue Flaherty wrote:Death Warden (Paladin)
Disclaimer: My ranking scheme for this round consists of given marks form 0 to 4 in the following three categories:
1.Is the Archetype conceptually interesting?
2.Are the mechanics of the Archetype interesting?
3.Are the mechanics of the Archetype balanced and well executed?
But rather than simply adding up the marks for a final score I'm gonna interpret them as a point in 3-dimensional space and the final mark of your submission will be the length...Azmahel2011-01-29T17:47:30ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Matt Goodallhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#332012-07-18T23:29:55Z2011-01-29T14:28:17Z<p>The names of your abilities are bit on the edge. Like others, I’m feeling that this ground has been covered before. Basically a Death Warden is a paladin that only works against undead and you get <i>death ward</i> (level/3) times per week to compensate for it. A static 4th level spell X times per week is uber at 3rd level and nothing much at 15th. The 20th level power is super good, a capstone ability should be super good, but I’m more worried about the other 19 levels. My Advice: if you do make it through to the next round, do <b>not</b> make a Pharasma villain. I am interested to see what you can do next round. Good luck.</p>The names of your abilities are bit on the edge. Like others, I’m feeling that this ground has been covered before. Basically a Death Warden is a paladin that only works against undead and you get death ward (level/3) times per week to compensate for it. A static 4th level spell X times per week is uber at 3rd level and nothing much at 15th. The 20th level power is super good, a capstone ability should be super good, but I’m more worried about the other 19 levels. My Advice: if you do make it...Matt Goodall2011-01-29T14:28:17ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)roguerougehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#322011-01-28T18:35:55Z2011-01-28T18:35:55Z<p>Well, I like your writing on the boards and your first item, so you might end up getting a vote because I've yet to find more than 1-2 concepts I'm excited by. Basically, take note of everything here: the reskinning but depowering approach is bad, but the pre-existing Undead Scourge is even worse because it suggests that you're not as creative as you need to be to succeed here. I know that's not the case. Be more fun next round.</p>Well, I like your writing on the boards and your first item, so you might end up getting a vote because I've yet to find more than 1-2 concepts I'm excited by. Basically, take note of everything here: the reskinning but depowering approach is bad, but the pre-existing Undead Scourge is even worse because it suggests that you're not as creative as you need to be to succeed here. I know that's not the case. Be more fun next round.roguerouge2011-01-28T18:35:55ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Nicholas Heroldhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#312011-01-28T03:16:18Z2011-01-28T03:16:18Z<p>I don't have a problem with the focused Pharasma-ness. She's a weird deity and I can see her having some paladins on the payroll. What I do have a problem with is that this paladin is much, much weaker than the standard pally. They lose a lot of versatility for not much oomph. In addition, the wording of various abilities is really strange, the smite undead seems to indicate that the author hasn't kept up with errata (an important aside when dealing with a rules-heavy contest) and the DR seems as if the author isn't sure how DR works. It's a fairly common mistake, that. </p>
<p>I'm afraid I will not be voting for this entry.</p>I don't have a problem with the focused Pharasma-ness. She's a weird deity and I can see her having some paladins on the payroll. What I do have a problem with is that this paladin is much, much weaker than the standard pally. They lose a lot of versatility for not much oomph. In addition, the wording of various abilities is really strange, the smite undead seems to indicate that the author hasn't kept up with errata (an important aside when dealing with a rules-heavy contest) and the DR...Nicholas Herold2011-01-28T03:16:18ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Jason Nelsonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#302011-01-28T00:57:09Z2011-01-28T00:57:09Z<p>This archetype is... just okay. You've basically reskinned the abilities to be undead rather than "all evil," which is a substantial downgrade in raw power that you never make up with extra anything. Also, the abilities don't do anything particularly interesting; most are just more limited versions of what any paladin can already do, including the disrupting capstone power (which is arguably WORSE than just using divine bond to slap the disruption power on a weapon - yes, the DC is higher, but using it ENDS THE SMITE, so you forfeit that juicy +CHA to hit and AC, ignore all DR, and +20 damage on every hit vs. that foe; you just get one shot with a higher DC instead of getting a lower DC and all the rest of the smitey goodness on every hit).</p>
<p>I like the thematic approach of an undead-focused paladin, but this one is, alas, pretty ordinary in its approach.</p>
<p>Congrats on making round 2, and best of luck!</p>This archetype is... just okay. You've basically reskinned the abilities to be undead rather than "all evil," which is a substantial downgrade in raw power that you never make up with extra anything. Also, the abilities don't do anything particularly interesting; most are just more limited versions of what any paladin can already do, including the disrupting capstone power (which is arguably WORSE than just using divine bond to slap the disruption power on a weapon - yes, the DC is higher,...Jason Nelson2011-01-28T00:57:09ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Ask A RPGSupersuccubus (alias of Charles Evans 25)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#292011-01-27T23:38:24Z2011-01-27T23:38:24Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sue Flaherty wrote:</div><blockquote><p> <b>Death Warden (Paladin)</b>
</p>
Seeing herself as the final defense against the undead and those who create them, the death warden has spent more of her time dealing with the dead than interacting with the living. This has caused her to be rather abrupt and taciturn in nature, making her much less diplomatic than her paladin counterpart. Completely devoted to the tenets of the Lady of Graves, the death warden is one alignment step further from her deity than a paladin normally allows. Yet, despite being a follower of the neutral Pharasma, she is as stringent in her code and concepts of honor as any. </blockquote><p><span class=messageboard-ooc>Disclaimer:
</p>
You should know the drill by now, but in case you missed it the first time round, Ask A RPGSupersuccubus is posting from the point of view of a CE aligned succubus: [Spoiler omitted] ;) </span> </p>
<p><b>Would you want this person sitting next to you as a guest at a formal evening dress dinner party? </b>
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It's a paladin, but a paladin who dials back on the etiquette and courtly politeness. Having one sit next to me at a dinner party would still be fun, but not nearly so much as with a regular paladin. Then again, a Death Warden won't be using <i>detect evil</i> and judging me on that basis, which avoids some social awkwardness. </p>
<p><b>How effective a flower-picker does this person seem likely to be?</b>
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Sadly a knight like this who's already reining in on charming words is probably not going to be very interested in picking flowers unless there are lives at stake and/or undead to be smote. Ahhh well - there are enough haunted ruins around with rare flowers growing amidst the tumbled stones... </p>
<p><b>Could you hire one person like this to do a better job than one other trained mercenary and/or to do the jobs of two (or more) other trained mercenaries?</b>
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If it involves reducing undead to cold bone cubes and ash, or slicing spectres to ethereal rags this is your man (or woman). Plus the lack of <i>detect evil</i> makes him or her much less challenging to convince to carry out an errand which makes for faster (but much less fun) hiring. </p>
<p><b>Other comments?</b>
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Yes, he or she is more effective against undead, but I look at a Death Warden, and find it difficult not to see him or her as a tragically watered-down paladin. Granted though that still makes him or her a <i>lot</i> more desirable than most other mortals... </p>
<p><b>Desirability: </b>
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Bodyguard, although alas unlikely to be available for duty unless one's life is threatened by undead. </p>
<p><span class=messageboard-ooc>Further Disclaimer:
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Ask A RPGSupersuccubus (with half an eye on Lord Orcus) would like to clarify that mortal voters should probably rely on more than just her own (impeccable) assessments in making up their minds on how to vote. Thank You. </span></p>Sue Flaherty wrote:Death Warden (Paladin)
Seeing herself as the final defense against the undead and those who create them, the death warden has spent more of her time dealing with the dead than interacting with the living. This has caused her to be rather abrupt and taciturn in nature, making her much less diplomatic than her paladin counterpart. Completely devoted to the tenets of the Lady of Graves, the death warden is one alignment step further from her deity than a paladin normally...Ask A RPGSupersuccubus (alias of Charles Evans 25)2011-01-27T23:38:24ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Nick Bolhuishttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#282011-01-27T20:00:19Z2011-01-27T20:00:19Z<p>This is tough, because I like the flavour and attention to religious detail here. I do however agree that you are seriously under powering the paladin vs. non-undead while not really giving his a significant bump against them. If a ranger could only take favoured enemy: undead but got nothing else for it everyone would cry foul. It's a good idea, but in trying to squeeze it in beside an existing undead bane paladin you lost sight of making it mechanically cool.</p>This is tough, because I like the flavour and attention to religious detail here. I do however agree that you are seriously under powering the paladin vs. non-undead while not really giving his a significant bump against them. If a ranger could only take favoured enemy: undead but got nothing else for it everyone would cry foul. It's a good idea, but in trying to squeeze it in beside an existing undead bane paladin you lost sight of making it mechanically cool.Nick Bolhuis2011-01-27T20:00:19ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Correlonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#272011-01-27T13:02:13Z2011-01-27T13:02:13Z<p>Reading through this for the third time, I can't help but feel that this is a theme-specific nerf of the paladin. While the theme is solid, this is not an archetype I would choose instead of simply customizing my paladin through feats and background.</p>
<p>Your flavor text got my hopes up that this would be the kind of grim I-do-what-is-necessary kind of paladin I have been waiting for in PF. Inquisitor inches in on this territory, but the flavor of a paladin who sees death as natural and necessary Kelemvor-style is still unique and cool to me.</p>
<p>The mechanics let me down quite a bit. Nevertheless, you have my vote for your round 1 item, and for your continued ability to give me cool ideas, something many of the more well-rounded archetypes here do not. Good luck!</p>Reading through this for the third time, I can't help but feel that this is a theme-specific nerf of the paladin. While the theme is solid, this is not an archetype I would choose instead of simply customizing my paladin through feats and background.
Your flavor text got my hopes up that this would be the kind of grim I-do-what-is-necessary kind of paladin I have been waiting for in PF. Inquisitor inches in on this territory, but the flavor of a paladin who sees death as natural and...Correlon2011-01-27T13:02:13ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Mikko Kalliohttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#262011-01-27T09:29:22Z2011-01-27T09:29:22Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">kwixson wrote:</div><blockquote><p> A word to the wise: step away from the submit button. Remember there are four alternates who all submitted valid entries for this round and are just waiting for you to disqualify yourself. 'Nuf said?
</p>
</blockquote><p>+1. Some might say that agreeing with comments constitutes "expanding on your submission".
<p>We, the alternates - much like Chuck Norris - don't sleep, we wait. But seeing that there were many weaker entries in round 2 than yours, I'd hate to see your paladin fall, pun intended. :-)</p>kwixson wrote:A word to the wise: step away from the submit button. Remember there are four alternates who all submitted valid entries for this round and are just waiting for you to disqualify yourself. 'Nuf said?
+1. Some might say that agreeing with comments constitutes "expanding on your submission". We, the alternates - much like Chuck Norris - don't sleep, we wait. But seeing that there were many weaker entries in round 2 than yours, I'd hate to see your paladin fall, pun intended. :-)Mikko Kallio2011-01-27T09:29:22ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)kwixsonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#252011-01-27T07:30:05Z2011-01-27T07:30:05Z<p>A word to the wise: step away from the submit button. Remember there are four alternates who all submitted valid entries for this round and are just waiting for you to disqualify yourself. 'Nuf said?</p>
<p>I don't know enough about PFRPG paladins to really judge this one. I have to go by the judges' comments. Going by the name, though, it makes me think of a particular video game turned RPG published by another company. I'm not sure if that was intentional or if I'm the only one picking up on that, but the association is pretty strong to my mind.</p>A word to the wise: step away from the submit button. Remember there are four alternates who all submitted valid entries for this round and are just waiting for you to disqualify yourself. 'Nuf said?
I don't know enough about PFRPG paladins to really judge this one. I have to go by the judges' comments. Going by the name, though, it makes me think of a particular video game turned RPG published by another company. I'm not sure if that was intentional or if I'm the only one picking up on...kwixson2011-01-27T07:30:05ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Carl Flahertyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#242011-01-27T05:31:38Z2011-01-27T05:31:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sue Flaherty wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I am reading everyone's comments, and will make notes for responses once the voting is over, since I can't comment myself yet ::and that is the HARDEST thing to do!::</p>
<p>There are reasons for some of my choices, and I do agree with some of the comments so far ... building archetypes is a new beast in the game, and quite tricky, I must say.</p>
<p>I hope that I have a chance to show my chops in the next round, but that is up to the voters. This is quite the wild ride, and I hope to stay on a bit longer :) </blockquote><p>Believe me, it can be very hard at this point not to reply to comments on you submission. :)Sue Flaherty wrote:I am reading everyone's comments, and will make notes for responses once the voting is over, since I can't comment myself yet ::and that is the HARDEST thing to do!::
There are reasons for some of my choices, and I do agree with some of the comments so far ... building archetypes is a new beast in the game, and quite tricky, I must say.
I hope that I have a chance to show my chops in the next round, but that is up to the voters. This is quite the wild ride, and I hope to...Carl Flaherty2011-01-27T05:31:38ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)BraxtheSagehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#232011-01-27T05:19:58Z2011-01-27T05:19:58Z<p>Sue.</p>
<p>You raise some interesting ideas in your submission. I have already incorporated your wonderous item in my campaign and I hope your second round entry will get you further...</p>Sue.
You raise some interesting ideas in your submission. I have already incorporated your wonderous item in my campaign and I hope your second round entry will get you further...BraxtheSage2011-01-27T05:19:58ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Starglimhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#222011-01-26T22:52:49Z2011-01-26T22:52:49Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">ruemere wrote:</div><blockquote> Alignment restriction is a non-issue for me. </blockquote><p>I don't have a problem with it as a change to the class either (though I'd prefer to see it changed to a different single alignment, most obviously LN). However, this round in part extends the idea of an archetype and explores how it can apply to different class features and design patterns than the APG writers considered.
<p>She should have considered how such a rule change would fit into a published class description. The contest rules and earlier official posts emphasised correct archetype format, several times, as grounds for disqualification.</p>ruemere wrote:Alignment restriction is a non-issue for me.
I don't have a problem with it as a change to the class either (though I'd prefer to see it changed to a different single alignment, most obviously LN). However, this round in part extends the idea of an archetype and explores how it can apply to different class features and design patterns than the APG writers considered. She should have considered how such a rule change would fit into a published class description. The contest...Starglim2011-01-26T22:52:49ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Hellderhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#212011-01-26T21:19:47Z2011-01-26T21:19:47Z<p>I like non LG paladin options, I like undead killers. This archetype is a little too weak, but i think it can really be improved with a few changes.
<br />
You have my vote, even not being the best archetype, you deserve the chance to go ahead for making one of my two favorite wondrous items.</p>I like non LG paladin options, I like undead killers. This archetype is a little too weak, but i think it can really be improved with a few changes.
You have my vote, even not being the best archetype, you deserve the chance to go ahead for making one of my two favorite wondrous items.Hellder2011-01-26T21:19:47ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Sue Flahertyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#202011-01-26T20:18:00Z2011-01-26T20:18:00Z<p>I am reading everyone's comments, and will make notes for responses once the voting is over, since I can't comment myself yet ::and that is the HARDEST thing to do!::</p>
<p>There are reasons for some of my choices, and I do agree with some of the comments so far ... building archetypes is a new beast in the game, and quite tricky, I must say.</p>
<p>I hope that I have a chance to show my chops in the next round, but that is up to the voters. This is quite the wild ride, and I hope to stay on a bit longer :)</p>I am reading everyone's comments, and will make notes for responses once the voting is over, since I can't comment myself yet ::and that is the HARDEST thing to do!::
There are reasons for some of my choices, and I do agree with some of the comments so far ... building archetypes is a new beast in the game, and quite tricky, I must say.
I hope that I have a chance to show my chops in the next round, but that is up to the voters. This is quite the wild ride, and I hope to stay on a bit...Sue Flaherty2011-01-26T20:18:00ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)The Grandfatherhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#192011-01-26T20:00:22Z2011-01-26T20:00:22Z<p>I like the overall idea of a Pharasman undeadhunter.</p>
<p>I think it would have been ok to give them a LN alignment restriction, bringing them closer to Pharasma and not straying too far from the regular paladins.</p>
<p>This arche type has as far as I can see been hit badly, very badly by the nerfing stick - which I do not like at all.</p>I like the overall idea of a Pharasman undeadhunter.
I think it would have been ok to give them a LN alignment restriction, bringing them closer to Pharasma and not straying too far from the regular paladins.
This arche type has as far as I can see been hit badly, very badly by the nerfing stick - which I do not like at all.The Grandfather2011-01-26T20:00:22ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Matthew Morrishttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#182011-01-26T17:31:53Z2011-01-26T17:31:53Z<p>The Pharasma tie weakened it for me for two reasons.</p>
<p>1) Sue, your previous item was also Pharasma oriented. While this was a plus, along with the simplicity of design and effects, with this one, the concern I have is 'can she do anything else?' This class is also simple, functional and too the point. That's a plus, but by tying it too much to Pharasma, it worries me. I look for diversity in each round. Fairly or not, I find myself going "Is round three going to be a Hound Master of Pharasma?</p>
<p>2) When I read the title, Pharasma didn't jump out at me. Wee Jas did. We don't 'have' the Ruby Lady, but by tying the class to Pharasmam, it moved it from an 'Ultimate Divine' Archtype to a "Faiths and Powers of Golarion" book. It also cut off the image of a Death Warden of Shelyn huntign down Zon Kuthon spawned abominations or the obvious Sarnae connections.</p>
<p>I like the concept, clean and simple. but I'm afraid there were 8 others that caught my eye.</p>The Pharasma tie weakened it for me for two reasons.
1) Sue, your previous item was also Pharasma oriented. While this was a plus, along with the simplicity of design and effects, with this one, the concern I have is 'can she do anything else?' This class is also simple, functional and too the point. That's a plus, but by tying it too much to Pharasma, it worries me. I look for diversity in each round. Fairly or not, I find myself going "Is round three going to be a Hound Master of
...Matthew Morris2011-01-26T17:31:53ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Dire Mongoosehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#172011-01-26T17:12:58Z2011-01-26T17:12:58Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Vistarius wrote:</div><blockquote> I think there is an unhealthy association with pharasma here. We already had a pharasma item win one year, and they let another one slip through this year. I think its a cheap trick on the authors part to try and.l get by on using pharasma that much. </blockquote><p>I know what these words mean, but these sentences just don't make sense.
<p>At best, you're saying "People like Pharasma, so people make Pharasma stuff to win!" Well, giving people what they want is kind of the idea.</p>Vistarius wrote:I think there is an unhealthy association with pharasma here. We already had a pharasma item win one year, and they let another one slip through this year. I think its a cheap trick on the authors part to try and.l get by on using pharasma that much.
I know what these words mean, but these sentences just don't make sense. At best, you're saying "People like Pharasma, so people make Pharasma stuff to win!" Well, giving people what they want is kind of the idea.Dire Mongoose2011-01-26T17:12:58ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)Vistariushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#162011-01-26T16:56:52Z2011-01-26T16:56:52Z<p>I think there is an unhealthy association with pharasma here. We already had a pharasma item win one year, and they let another one slip through this year. I think its a cheap trick on the authors part to try and.l get by on using pharasma that much.</p>I think there is an unhealthy association with pharasma here. We already had a pharasma item win one year, and they let another one slip through this year. I think its a cheap trick on the authors part to try and.l get by on using pharasma that much.Vistarius2011-01-26T16:56:52ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Design an archetype: Death Warden (Paladin)ruemerehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lr24?Death-Warden#152011-01-26T12:30:24Z2011-01-26T12:30:24Z<p>Significantly weakened (narrowed focus) version of Paladin.
<br />
All important undead opponents are most likely evil. Smite already targets undead (and they don't need to be evil).
<br />
Detect Evil also works on undead (they are very likely to be evil, after all).</p>
<p>Verdict: NOT recommended.</p>
<p>Regards,
<br />
Ruemere</p>
<p>PS. Alignment restriction is a non-issue for me.</p>Significantly weakened (narrowed focus) version of Paladin.
All important undead opponents are most likely evil. Smite already targets undead (and they don't need to be evil).
Detect Evil also works on undead (they are very likely to be evil, after all).
Verdict: NOT recommended.
Regards,
Ruemere
PS. Alignment restriction is a non-issue for me.ruemere2011-01-26T12:30:24Z