|Artus Nemati RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8 aka Tolroy|
Some people lie to live, yet the charlatan lives to lie. Charlatans move from one deception to another, dancing a game of duplicity that leaves his coin pouch fatter and his victims none the wiser.
Bamboozle (Ex): A charlatan can implement a cunning and ingenious weave of lies and half-truths allowing him to gain the confidence of those around him. While using Disguise to alter his appearance, a charlatan may use Bluff instead of Diplomacy to alter a target's starting attitude or to make a request. Any change in attitude is only effective while the charlatan is in the same disguise and while the target believes the disguise. If the target disbelieves the disguise, its attitude decreases two steps and stops performing the request unless doing so would endanger it. Additionally, the charlatan may attempt to influence a given target's attitude with Bluff more than once in a given 24-hour period as long as he successfully uses Disguise to change his appearance between Bluff attempts. This ability replaces trapfinding.
Mystical Ruse (Ex): At 3rd level, the charlatan becomes adept at acting the part of a spellcaster. The charlatan gains a +1 competence bonus on Use Magic Device checks except for attempts to decipher a written spell. This bonus increases by +1 for every 3 levels beyond 3rd. The charlatan also gains a +2 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks while impersonating a spellcaster as long as he uses a wand, staff, or scroll as part of the disguise. This ability replaces trap sense.
Distracting Ploy (Ex): At 4th level, the charlatan may don a disguise as a standard action by taking a -5 penalty on his check. He may also use Bluff to create a distraction as a swift action. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
Perfect Delivery (Ex): At 8th level, the charlatan can trick a target as a standard action into doing an activity it normally would not do. This effect works as suggestion using the charlatan's level as his caster level. The target gets a Will save (DC 13 + the charlatan's Charisma modifier). At 16th level, the charlatan can use perfect delivery twice per day. This ability replaces improved uncanny dodge.
Rogue Talents: The following rogue talents complement the charlatan archetype: charmer, coax information, guileful polyglot, honeyed words, major magic, minor magic, and quick disguise.
Advanced Talents: The following advanced rogue talents complement the charlatan archetype: master of disguise, opportunist, and skill mastery.
|Neil Spicer RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor|
I actually like this one a lot. Very professionally presented, all the way down to the recommended rogue talents to complement the archetype. The use of Bluff as an attitude-adjusting charlatan's Diplomacy is innovative. I'm not as keen on the Mystical Ruse ability, but I do like the notion of the bonus on Use Magic Device checks to emulate another class. And the other abilities for Bamboozle, Distracting Ploy, and Perfect Delivery all fit the theme you're going for...
As a result, I RECOMMEND this archetype design to advance to the next round. Well done. You're two for two in my book as I also really enjoyed your mirrored lantern of the pious seeker. Let's see how well the voters receive your charlatan.
|Ryan Dancey CEO, Goblinworks|
Total Points: 2.5 Points
Recommendation: Not recommended for advancement
Comments In Detail
Name & Theme (.5 point)
Name matches the theme but the theme isn't great.
Mechanics (1 point)
Mechanics are solid. Not much to say - they work, and they're pretty simple.
Awesomeness (0 points)
Just not awesome. Who is going to play this character? How will this work in a group?
Template (1 point)
Followed the template well. Really liked the recommendations at the end.
Context (0 point)
This is a character from a novel, not a character in an adventure game. Disguises, suggestions, and charming people are a tough fit into most games and since this is the focus of the archetype the player is going to be trying to do them all the time. Maybe in a specially crafted 1:1 game where the PC is a criminal trying to elude a detective or something this might make sense but it's an extreme corner case.
|Mark Moreland Developer|
I'm impressed, Artus. You've picked an iconic trope and run with it, and for the most part, done a very good job making it interesting and balanced. I like that you made this a rogue archetype, as I think many would make this a bard variant due to their generally higher Charisma. This makes for a nice blend of the two classes without it actually being a multiclass archetype.
I think all the abilities you present are fairly straightforward and any fringe situations are covered. You stayed close to the theme, and I can't see any of these being particularly game-breaking. There are some good, innovative ideas here, too, especially being able to use Bluff in place of Diplomacy when disguised, and allowing more than one Bluff attempt if he changes disguises.
I was initially put off by some strange syntax in the flavor text, however, that another edit pass or reading it out loud might have caught: "Some people lie to live, yet the charlatan lives to lie. Charlatans move from one deception to another, dancing a game of duplicity that leaves his coin pouch fatter and his victims none the wiser." Is it "the charlatan," "charlatans," or a single charlatan (resulting in "him")? Not a huge deal, but if you move on to future rounds, you should not only bring the solid design and creativity, but an attention to linguistic detail worthy of the Superstar title.
All considered, I RECOMMEND this archetype for advancement. I look forward to seeing what else you can come up with down the road, but it's all up to the voting public now. Best of luck.
|Sean K Reynolds Contributor|
I think this is a perfect archetype for a "face man" sort of character. The abilities make sense, I chuckled at the "disguise yourself as a spellcaster if you have a wand/etc." ability, and I know there are some players who'd LOVE to have this archetype.
I don't spot any significant mechanical problems, and while the writing needs some tightening up here and there, overall it's good.
RECOMMENDATION: I DO recommend this archetype design for advancement in the competition.
I love the use of bluff to replace diplomacy.
I love the Mystical Ruse (goes in line with the name).
If anything I would like to see it have the option to convince people you have cast spells on them, as a minor illusion without actual magical effects. That would have been tricky to incorporate into the limited space though. IE: The Charltan throws a handful of red dust over the merchant and mutters "Clutu Varakta Nektu", then tells the merchant "I have just cast a curse upon you. It only takes effect if you attempt to sell me something for more than it is worth. If you do, by the next morning you will be covered with red pox." Bluff roll to make the merchant believed it.
The quick disguise change is good too.
The non-magical Suggestion is excellent. Well worth the trade off.
|verdigris Dedicated Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Dedicated Voter 2015|
Recommendation: Not recommended for advancement...
This is a character from a novel, not a character in an adventure game. Disguises, suggestions, and charming people are a tough fit into most games and since this is the focus of the archetype the player is going to be trying to do them all the time.
I have to take some exception to this. Essentially what this boils down to, is you're going to give a thumbs-down to any non-combat-oriented character. While I'd agree that this character archetype would not be ideal for your typical adventure path or published module, it's an excellent roleplaying option, and I could see it fitting in brilliantly to any roleplaying-heavy game. In fact, I'll probably point my players here for that very reason.
Would I point a new gamer here? Probably not. RP-heavy characters should be carefully selected by players that know what they're getting into, but I think it's worth evaluating an archetype in the spirit in which it was clearly intended.
|Nick Bolhuis RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013|
I think I rather like this. It's smooth and well planned. I agree that it's abilities may be less useful or successful than the character is designed for, simply based on the style of the campaign, but you're likely not picking this archetype in a hack 'n slash anyways. I'm a little iffy on suggestion as an extraordinary ability but that's a little thing.
|Thomas LeBlanc RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter 2013, Champion Voter 2014, Champion Voter 2015|
1. Is it balanced?
- Mostly. For bamboozle, I think it must be stated the disguise should be of a trusted type of personage (town guard, cleric of targets god, etc) or actual person the target knows.
- Very, the core of this class.
Yes, just weakened slightly.
4. Would I play it?
If I was in a RP heavy group, then yes. If I was in a 50/50 group, then no.
I like this one...
Low key, but it`s definitely balanced, and it pulls off what it`s trying to, IMHO.
As said, this territory is almost going into Bard territory, but I think that`s fine:
You can easily build a Bard to pull this role off, OR build a Charlatan Rogue who CAN accomplish some similar things, but probably in different ways (less DEPENDENT on magic, though more competent in it than average Rogue).
I liked your first round entry alot (again, a subtle one, but that can be good IMHO), so I can say you`re definitely getting my vote. Good luck!
|Daniel Gunther 346|
I love the idea of a Charlaton. One of the most memorable characters I've ever played was a rogue that would get the group into deeper crap only to talk the group right back out again with some ridiculous on the fly BS. I'd always turn to the group and use the line the DnD movie character Ridley stole from me "Trust me."
Very nice. A look at diversity from you. Round 1 - an item for someone with Channel Power ability...and Round 2 - an archetype that, as Sean already stated, would be a great Face man without stepping all over the bard.
|Trevor Gulliver RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 aka Tarren Dei|
|Joe Wells RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 , Star Voter 2013|
|Artus Nemati RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8 aka Tolroy|
I was gonna make this my archtype if I made it to round two!
There are just so many good examples in history, and I had a rougue once who went into arcane trickster because he liked act as a spell caster while invisible allies cast summon spell... "Why yes I am powerful enough to conjure multiple summons in one round! How ever could you doubt me!"
Bamboozle (Ex) Replace one skill with another, make it conditional, lose useful adventuring ability. BAD.
Mystical Ruse (Ex) Little conditional thingies, lose useful adventuring ability. BAD.
Distracting Ploy (Ex) Nonmagical Alter Self. Lose useful adventuring ability. NEUTRAL.
Perfect Delivery (Ex) Nonmagical Suggestion. Erroneous design for ability DC. Lose useful adventuring ability. BAD.
Verdict: Very bad.
|Carl Flaherty RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 aka Lord Fyre|
You have my vote.
My own archetype was based on a similar concept, although built for a bard rather than a rogue.
The reason I've voted for your archetype over the other two confidence men/trickster archetypes is because yours hangs together best; the mechanics all seem sound to me, and this is an archetype that would get quite a bit of face time (if you'll pardon the pun) in my Wednesday night group; we do tend to try to talk before we fight.
The only real concerns I have with your design are the things you don't mention, and the things I struggled with in building this archetype as well, namely:
- I'm not sure it makes sense for a charlatan to have a sneak attack ability.
- I'm also not sure it makes sense for a charlatan to have master strike as his capstone ability.
Lastly, while I understand that disguises are an important part of the arsenal of your typical con man, I'm not sure why you've limited bamboozle to only work when the charlatan is wearing a disguise. It seems a little off to me--either he's a guy who is able to win people over by his wits, charm and grace (in which case he doesn't need the disguise) or he's a master of disguise(s) (in which case he isn't this particular archetype).
Still, you've done enough to get a vote from me. Good luck for the remainder of the contest! I hope to see you in Round 3.
|Mikko Kallio RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Dedicated Voter 2015 aka Serpent|
|Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 , Star Voter 2013|
I enjoy this, less combat oriented more social oriented. Doesn't compeltely take the rogue out of his 'niche' but does make for an interesting varient. I'd play it.
I don't normally address comments, but wanted to here.
If anything I would like to see it have the option to convince people you have cast spells on them, as a minor illusion without actual magical effects.
Technically you can do this as a bluff already. I've had bards bluff bad guys into thinking the Dancing lights over his head are balls of flame waiting to explode, or had a tiefling use chill touch (delivered through a kiss on the forehead) to make the NPC think she consumed part of his soul. If the guy doesn't have spellcraft, how does he know it was just a bluff? Heck, Raistlin does varients of this in the Dragonlance novels.
|MicMan Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014|
I like this!
Not only is it presented in a very professional way, it also drips of roleplaying style.
Add in two really useful abilities (distraction as swift action is nice as is bonus to umd) and this one is a winner.
The fact that this will most likely not be used in a hack'n'slash campaign is not a drawback for me as many archetypes are worse than their alternatives (looking at you 2-h fighter).
|Carl Flaherty RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 aka Lord Fyre|
I am wondering, would the concept, with it focus on social skills have worked better as a Bard (which is a different entry based on the same idea in the contest I believe)?
Actually, having now reviewed the competing "Bard Based" archetype, I like this execution of the "archetype" more and more. (By which I mean the original definition of the word.)
|Ziv Wities RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Standback|
What most stood out to me was the writing, and not in a good way. I appreciate the effort to add flavor to every ability, but overall the entry seemed mushy and the rhythm was off.
So, none for me, thanks.
I really liked this one. I like adding intrigue and suspicion to my games. I love when pcs try to disguise themselves and infiltrate the enemy. It can work really well or it can go really bad but either way its always fun and very high drama. I also love that this writer gave us the rogue talents that work best for this archetype. These are really helpful to characters and makes the archetype feel full.
|RonarsCorruption Star Voter 2013|
Love the concept, the mechanics are there, nothing seems broken enough to a common GM at first glance (a category of which I fit into perfectly) to deter its use.
For a small group of players (2-3) in an urban setting, this archetype could be a strong plot driver with the right kind of player behind it. Regardless, I see this archetype being popular in any party in an urban setting.
|Ask A RPGSupersuccubus|
Charlatan (Rogue)Some people lie to live, yet the charlatan lives to lie. Charlatans move from one deception to another, dancing a game of duplicity that leaves his coin pouch fatter and his victims none the wiser.
Disclaimer:You should know the drill by now, but in case you missed it the first time round, Ask A RPGSupersuccubus is posting from the point of view of a CE aligned succubus:
Would you want this person sitting next to you as a guest at a formal evening dress dinner party?
This sort of person (basically a con artiste) tends to turn up at formal evening dress dinner parties only if she's out to try and fleece one or more of the guests present. So long as she's not out to specifically attempt to con you (or in a gross violation of etiquette to con the hostess) this is generally likely to improve most such evenings' entertainment.
How effective a flower-picker does this person seem likely to be?
No. This is someone whom you Do Not Send To Get Flowers. I guarantee you, that whatever you send her for, she will come back with something else cheaper and which involved much less effort to obtain, but that she will still attempt to persuade you is in fact exactly what you wanted:
'Well these are Burbling Lilacs, see, only it's the wrong time of year for them to be burbling, and that's also why they're off-white instead of lilac coloured...'
'These are Saramanthra's Roses. It's just that (and not many people know this) there's this phase they go through where they look like Lordling's Ruff instead on account of all those Hogsnortian Rovavarers that occupy the environment that they grow in. They need to disguise themselves see, so as not to get eaten too early...'
'Well actually these aren't Rodidera's Clematis. These are the much superior, rarer, and less well known Greater Rodidera's Clematis, which just happen to look like Corona's Pleasure. Yeah, funny that, ain't it...'
Could you hire one person like this to do a better job than one other trained mercenary and/or to do the jobs of two (or more) other trained mercenaries?
No. Frankly the only things which work on a con artiste are romantic infatuation, favours owed, or heavy duty enchantment magic. She can't help herself you see... Faced with any offer of employment for cash, she will still try and swindle you out of more than the going rate. She may be good at what she does, but you will never hire her for anything remotely resembling a bargain rate.
Charlatans tend not to go anywhere near ancient ruins or to actually burgle houses, so the fact that they've shunned the study of the disarming of traps to really improve their fast talking skills rarely slows them down or hinders them in the slightest.
Whilst using them is ill-advised for a succubus (and likely to probably backfire at some point) these creatures sow so much chaos and leave so much misery and frustration in their wake that rating them as mere snacks for a hungry temptress is to deny oneself the opportunity to watch so much fun...
Best left alone and regarded from a (safe) distance.
Ask A RPGSupersuccubus (with half an eye on Lord Orcus) would like to clarify that mortal voters should probably rely on more than just her own (impeccable) assessments in making up their minds on how to vote. Thank You.
|BraxtheSage Star Voter 2014|
|Mike Shel Contributor|
[Distracting Ploy (Ex): At 4th level, the charlatan may don a disguise as a standard action by taking a -5 penalty on his check. He may also use Bluff to create a distraction as a swift action. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
I actually had only one thought while reading this: why not call this ability Quick Change, or something similar? Upon reading this, I imagine an actor or actress offstage and behind the curtain, putting on a costume for the next scene in 5 seconds.
Aside from that, it's a pretty interesting archetype. I wish you'd added a little more ... but I like what's here. Good luck!
|Russ Taylor RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6, Contributor , Dedicated Voter 2013|
Solid work. I do wish you'd spent some words given the class a mechanic to fake casting with Use Magic Device, something that's a touch overdue. And by fake, I mean fool people who have Spellcraft, probably based on on Spellcraft itself. It'd make this a wonderful complement for certain types of master spies. But overall, this archetype does what it should, and with good economy of words. Good job.
In my "keep" pile.
|Ben Iglauer RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2014, Dedicated Voter 2015 aka moon glum|
Well done, but bards are better at what the charlatan is supposed to be good at.
I am voting for it, but I would run a bard instead.
Disclaimer: My ranking scheme for this round consists of given marks form 0 to 4 in the following three categories:1.Is the Archetype conceptually interesting?
2.Are the mechanics of the Archetype interesting?
3.Are the mechanics of the Archetype balanced and well executed?
But rather than simply adding up the marks for a final score I'm gonna interpret them as a point in 3-dimensional space and the final mark of your submission will be the length of the vector between the origin and this point.
Note that my ranking doesn't need to directly correspond with my votes, as other factors like: Strength of your item submission, mood, my horrorscope and other random stuff still factor in. Also note that this scheme is highly subjective and only mirrors my perception and opinion about your archetype submission.
Conceptual Mojo (CM): 2, Not a new concept, but one that many players love to play.
Mechanical Mojo (MM): 3, Interesting, new and yet simple, But maybe too simple.
Mechanical Execution (ME): 2, Well balanced, but very rough in places.
Final note: The charlatan is the very definition of an archetype rogue, so points for hitting the right niche, but points deducted for staying on safe and well explored land, both with mechanics and concept.
Total Score: 4.123
|Curaigh Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Marathon Voter 2015|
Nicely done Artus. I think you have an interesting type of character a lot of people will play. More-so because you went rogue versus someone with actual suggestion abilities already. Abilities are balanced per level and for what you a rogue would have to give up.
I want to point out to y'all that think this is a non-combat rogue that feint is normally a standard action. Sneak attack? OK!
EDIT: ...unless creating a distraction is different than feinting. hmmm... my rules-fu just failed me. what does create a distraction mean?
|Steven Helt RPG Superstar 2013 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Dedicated Voter 2015 aka Steven T. Helt|
I think this archetype is boring. No combat mechanics, unless you can use the Bluff as a swift action to feint, in which case it might become to much. I am not as impressed with some by the ability to use Bluff to change attitudes. Couldn't I just buy ranks in Diplomacy with my 8-10 skill points per level and still be able to detect traps?
Almost all of these archetypes fits soem kind of iconic trope that players will want to explore at some point, but I don't think this one offers a rogue character anything they can't already do pretty well, and I think whatever usefulness it has is going to come outside of combat and try the patience of other players who need either eeps or facetime of their own.
|Jason Nelson RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games|
Nicely done. The name is basic, but many archetype names are. The powers deliver exactly what is promised and are mechanically sound. I like the UMD trick; it's a nice swap for trap sense and thematically fits. The Bluff/Disguise trick is nicely defined, which is often hard for social 'tricks.'
Bonus points for including the recommended compatible rogue talents. That shows you have paid attention to the source material and published archetypes and modeled yours to match. Any time you are working for a company that has an established style, you are well-advised to find out what that style is and follow it, and you did, while still delivering the goods.
You didn't explore any epic new territory here, but you staked out a little area here and set it up well. Nice job, but remember that if you wanna not just be in it but win it, you'll need to step out of the safe and go for it a little more in the rounds to come.
Congrats on making round 2, and best of luck!
|Nicholas Herold RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 , Marathon Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Demiurge 1138|
I love charlatans. Give me a con man, trickster or snake-oil salesman and I'm a happy guy. This is the second con man archetype I've read so far, and I must say I like this one better. It's decidedly better balanced, and I like giving these tricks to the rogue rather than the bard. The UMD trick is pretty clever.
I suspect I'm going to vote for this entry.
|Mark Thomas RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16 aka Mark Thomas 66|