Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

Treasure Seeker (Rogue)


Round 2 - Top 32: Create an archetype

Taldor RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka ryric

Treasure Seeker (Rogue)
Part archaeologist, part merchant, and part cryptographer, these rogues follow weathered maps and dare ancient ruins to find the choicest valuables. Some treasure seekers follow profits, others knowledge, but all must be wary of the many defenses that lie between the rogue and his lucrative target. Treasure seekers need to be able to find lost marvels missed by less able explorers and shrug off magical blights left from primeval civilizations.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff(Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), Swim (Str), and Use Magic Device (Cha). These replace the standard rogue class skills.
Find the Hidden (Ex): At 2nd level, the treasure seeker gets a bonus equal to half his rogue level on Perception checks to find secret doors, hidden compartments, and any other type of concealed portal or container. He receives an equal bonus on Linguistics checks to decipher codes or unfamiliar text and can make these Linguistics checks untrained. This ability replaces the rogue talent the character would ordinarily receive at 2nd level.
Assess Value (Ex): At 4th level, the treasure seeker gains the ability to use Appraise to identify magic items. When making an Appraise check to discern the value of an item, the treasure seeker also gleans information about the item's magical functions as if he had made an identical Spellcraft check while using detect magic. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
Break Curse (Su): At 8th level, as a standard action, the treasure seeker can use remove curse on himself once per day. This effect has a caster level equal to the treasure seeker's rogue level. If the curse is from a cursed item, the treasure seeker may substitute a Use Magic Device check for the required caster level check if desired. This ability can be used an additional time per day for every 5 rogue levels beyond 8th. This ability replaces improved uncanny dodge.

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

A treasure-seeking specialist archetype? Okay. Could be a cool niche to explore. Definitely makes sense to tie this to the rogue class. I'm a little disappointed that a lot of your word count is spent on listing out all the possible class skills for the archetype, when most of them are just duplicating what the rogue class already has. You'd have been better served to just tell us what gets added or removed from the skill list and leave it at that.

I like the Find the Hidden, but I think you should have extended it to include a bonus on trap sense beyond the what the regular rogue would have. Or even an ability to reduce damage from a trap or lower the DC. I'm also not as keen on seeing rogue talents disappear as the replaced ability. In fact, I think you should almost dictate that trap spotter has to be the first rogue talent such an archetype takes.

I also like the Assess Value ability to Appraise magic items. Extending that with the pseudo-Spellcraft/detect magic is somewhat innovative. And I agree that stripping out uncanny dodge/improved uncanny dodge is the right way to go for this archetype, because you want to leave all the trapfinding and trap sense abilities untouched.

Lastly, I also like the Break Curse ability, as you just know a treasure-seeking rogue is going to find himself in a pinch with some ancient curse. Having it be usable multiple times for every 5 levels beyond 8th seems a little unnecessary. But, I suppose he's good to have along to help out his allies, if necessary. The bit about allowing his Use Magic Device check to substitute as the opposed caster level check on the remove curse is interesting. It means he's probably better at it than most clerics, though, provided he invests heavily in Use Magic Device (which I expect a treasure-seeking rogue would).

So, your choice of archetype and the abilities you've assigned it are fairly solid. I'm not completely sold on the entire design, but this is headed down a reasonable, non-game-breaking path. I think you missed an opportunity with pumping up the trap detection abilities, as I see those equally if not more important than the secret door detection, appraising, and remove curse abilities. I feel like you could have included another ability for that by cutting out a bunch of the unnecessary words among the class skill list and your leftover word count.

With all that in mind, I don't feel tremendously inclined to recommend for or against this archetype design. Your professional polish on presentation may tip it more toward a recommendation. And, your ampoule of false blood wondrous item may help with the voters when it comes to assessing your body of work so far. I wish you the best of luck. And I wouldn't be disappointed at all to see you in the next round so we can better assess your skills and give you another opportunity to grow and learn through active participation in the competition.

CEO, Goblinworks

Total Points: 2.5 Points
Recommendation: Not recommended for advancement

Comments In Detail

Name & Theme (.5 point)
You've described 90% of the characters in a typical Pathfinder game.

Mechanics (.5 point)
These boring mechanics are not game breaking and are reasonably balanced.

Awesomeness (0 points)
You went for Indiana Jones, but you ended up with Short Round.

Template (1 point)
Used the template well.

Context (.5 point)
Back in the 1E days finding more secret doors would have been really valuable. But designers got wise to the fact that they couldn't rely on parties finding them therefore couldn't put anything interesting behind them, and over time they fell into disuse. If you happen to have an Old School GM who loves secret doors, hidden compartments, etc. then maybe these mechanics are going to be useful but that's a huge gamble.

Paizo Employee Developer

This is a trope of the fantasy genre and, by extension, adventure roleplaying, so I think it's a well-chosen archetype. Tying it to a rogue is an obvious choice, and I'm glad you made it instead of trying to make a less-suited class fit this campaign role.

I, like Neil, was put off by the wall of class skills. That could have been better presented, but I think the skill selection you've put forward is good.

The rest of the alternate class features here don't grab me, however. I see what you're going for thematically, but I'm not sure that the actual mechanics were designed as well as I'd like. First, I think find the hidden should replace trapfinding, as it acts similarly, just applying the 1/2 rogue level to a different ability. Im not keen on replacing rogue talents, as these are one of the key choices a rogue has in customizing her character's focus; there are plenty of static class features to monkey with while still maintaining a player's ability to specialize with specific talents.

I'm also a little wary of the assess value class feature, which is neat in theory, but degrades the value of actually putting ranks in Spellcraft and being able to cast detect magic. As it is, a rogue can already do that with minor magic and her overflow of skill points per level.

Then you've got untrained Linguistics checks in find the hidden. I don't like that at all. A rogue gets more skill points per level than any other class; give her something to put those ranks in! Even grant a bonus on Linguistic checks made to decipher codes and such, but don't give it for free. Even the standard rogue class abilities don't let them use Disable Device without training, even when class features otherwise grant bonuses on such checks.

In the final analysis, I think you went with a safe concept and then didn't make up for that safety with innovative and exciting abilities. I liked the ampoule of false blood in round one, and I know you've got the spark of a superstar in you, I'm just not seeing it here. Thus, I DO NOT RECOMMEND this archetype for advancement. Best of luck in the vote.

Contributor

Class Skills: Style nitpick, you need to say "The treasure seeker's class skills are...."

Find the Hidden: This is a reasonable ability, but it's not very exciting compared to all the other rogue talents you could take instead of this.

Assess Value: You're giving up uncanny dodge, a major defensive ability that's useful to an actual treasure seeker, and replacing it with an ability that any any 1st-level caster with an at-will detect magic can do. That's a big miss.

Break Curse: This is a reasonable ability, though I don't know how often you're going to need to use remove curse on yourself more than once per day.

These abilities aren't particularly exciting. The most exciting thing about this archetype is its name. :?/

RECOMMENDATION: I do NOT recommend this archetype design for advancement in the competition.


I am voting for this archetype. I like the fact that I'm not losing trap sense for what it gives. I feel that find the Hidden might be more powerful than many talents but this is made up for in that you don't get a choice at level 2 and the ability isn't going to be used regularly. The fact that the abilities come in at lower levels is rather nice as well -- it means you'll actually be able to use this in the majority of a campaign. The fact that there is a level eight ability also means you can't just cut and run as fast as you like.

Being able to identify items is something that shouldn't be a "given" but needs to be handled quickly in order to avoid bogging down the game. The Assess Value gives a nice mechanical means for a treasure seeker to do something he should be able to do without copping out to detect magic to do so. That is some nice mechanical maneuvering to me.

Speaking of the level eight ability I'm very impressed with the mechanic design behind it. This is useful and incredibly thoughtful in execution, I only wish I could use it on my allies as well.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6, Contributor , Dedicated Voter 2013

This is my first entry, using dice to determine reading order. Kind of a rough draw for this "judge", as I've done this particular one twice myself, once as a prestige class, once as an archetype. What it's lacking for me is the "wow". It's a competent enough archetype, along the lines of many of the simpler ones in the APG, but not one that makes me want to play it.

The bad:
* Listing the class skills. Word count is precious. Just add and subtract from the base list, or leave it unchanged.
* Adding a second Perception-based bonus. I'd just go ahead and give them a slightly better trap sense. That'd help pay off same later abilities that aren't as good as what you'd give up.
* Identify for uncanny dodge. While I've recently done an archetype with a similar ability, this does still come off as a horrible exchange. So I like the ability, just not what was paid for it. I do like using Appraise for it, though.
* Excitement. Archetypes should leap off the page with the name and few sentences of text. I'm sympathetic here, I sure struggle with that myself.

The good:
* The remove curse ability. I kind of wish I'd thought of that.
* Having the nerve to change the skill list. More archetype should do that.

As it stands, this entry misses my initial cut, but best of luck regardless.


Ryan Dancey wrote:
You went for Indiana Jones, but you ended up with Short Round.

Oh, now that's just mean. :)

But Ryan sorta summed up how I felt, too. I love the concept. Indy, Locke from Final Fantasy VI, Nathan Drake from Uncharted - people wanna play that kinda rogue, and the abilities your archetype grants are kinda cool.

It's just that none of those people would rather be able to cast identify at will than to take advantage of the uncanny dodge abilities. That's why you dip into an arcane class for a level or two, and maybe go arcane trickster if you wanna be gung ho about it.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8 aka Tolroy

Neil Spicer wrote:
You'd have been better served to just tell us what gets added or removed from the skill list and leave it at that.

I would like to pipe up about this part of the commentary. The provided model had a line that told us not to do exactly what you have said here.

Round Two Rules wrote:
This should be a complete listing of the class's class skills, not a "add this and remove these" sort of statement.

Joseph followed the format that was given to him in the rules. Cases can be made on both sides over whether using his limited word count in such a way was prudent, but I don't think it would have been to his advantage to format his submission in another way.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Star Voter 2013 aka Electric Monk

Artus Nemati wrote:
Neil Spicer wrote:
You'd have been better served to just tell us what gets added or removed from the skill list and leave it at that.

I would like to pipe up about this part of the commentary. The provided model had a line that told us not to do exactly what you have said here.

Round Two Rules wrote:
This should be a complete listing of the class's class skills, not a "add this and remove these" sort of statement.
Joseph followed the format that was given to him in the rules. Cases can be made on both sides over whether using his limited word count in such a way was prudent, but I don't think it would have been to his advantage to format his submission in another way.

I was just about to write this exact post! For shame Neil and Mark (who also critisised the write up of the class skills). This was in the rules which as judges you should be all over. I will vote for this because:

a) It's quite cool (though not as good as some others)
b) The judges critisised it for following the rules and recommended against it.


I like the idea, and most of the mechanics. Keeper folder. The thing I did not like was losing uncanny dodge, but I can forgive that.


I think this is a solid implementation of the theme.

I think the third sentence in the introductory text should be discarded.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6, Contributor , Dedicated Voter 2013

Hmm. Wow on that being in the provided format. Just seems careless of valuable words to me :) I can see why to do it, but I think a little extra work in the reference is worth more lines of abilities in the archetype. I was wondering after seeing several other entries do the same thing. Failed to find an APG example that *did* list them all in my own work, though I'm sure there is one.

For the record - it jumped out at me as a lot of words before seeing any judge comments on it.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014 aka Serpent

It's a good archetype with a focused theme, but it completely lacks the "wow!!!" factor. Anyway, it's one of the better ones in round 2, and I wish you good luck in the contest!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The very first class ability breaks DC system for Perception checks.
No, thanks.

Verdict: NOT recommended.

Regards,
Ruemere

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 , Star Voter 2013

Needs proficiency (whip)

Losing uncanny dodge might hurt, but it mostly works against foes, this guy's more focused on traps.

Sorry Joseph, I like this, but it just gets eeked out of my top 8. Good luck!

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013

I'm sort of with the rest of the class here. It's super safe and that's about it.

Osirion RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4 , Star Voter 2013 aka raidou

Joseph, looks like you've chosen to tackle a rogue that hunts down fabled treasures, Indiana Jones style. That's clearly got potential for fun, let's see what he can do.

treasure seeker wrote:
Find the Hidden (Ex): At 2nd level, the treasure seeker gets a bonus equal to half his rogue level on Perception checks to find secret doors, hidden compartments, and any other type of concealed portal or container. He receives an equal bonus on Linguistics checks to decipher codes or unfamiliar text and can make these Linguistics checks untrained. This ability replaces the rogue talent the character would ordinarily receive at 2nd level.

Fits the theme, and interesting that you chose to substitute out a rogue talent. It's so similar to trapfinding, though, that it feels underwhelming.

treasure seeker wrote:
Assess Value (Ex): At 4th level, the treasure seeker gains the ability to use Appraise to identify magic items. When making an Appraise check to discern the value of an item, the treasure seeker also gleans information about the item's magical functions as if he had made an identical Spellcraft check while using detect magic. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.

This is another thematically fitting ability, granting an added use of appraise. And again, it's fine if a little uninteresting. It's something they should be capable of, but doesn't add much excitement to the archetype.

treasure seeker wrote:
Break Curse (Su): At 8th level, as a standard action, the treasure seeker can use remove curse on himself once per day. This effect has a caster level equal to the treasure seeker's rogue level. If the curse is from a cursed item, the treasure seeker may substitute a Use Magic Device check for the required caster level check if desired. This ability can be used an additional time per day for every 5 rogue levels beyond 8th. This ability replaces improved uncanny dodge.

Interesting that you've added a (Su) ability into this mix. I think it's a good ability, well-suited to the challenges this guy might face. But it makes your earlier abilities stand out a bit more for being too timid. If you're opening the door to supernatural abilities, why not give this guy an ability to Locate Object? That's something that a treasure seeker in search of a specific item should be able to do.

Joseph, I think you've made a thematically well-crafted archetype that's generally better at doing what it's supposed to do than your average rogue. It's not a super-exciting class, but it's mechanically sound. And you hit on an archetype niche that's in need of filling. This feels middle-tier to me, and it's possible that you'll get one of my votes in the end.

Osirion RPG Superstar 2013 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014 aka Steven T. Helt

I think this archetype is just boring and unimaginative. His abilities can be duplicated more easily by characters already in his party, and I don't want to ever play a character that sees every magic door. Lots more could be done here, like extending his trapsense and uncanny dodge to allies, or replacing sneak attack with a series of cool adventuring abilities, or gving him abilities that slow the onset of poisons or other hazards, without making him immune to them. Another concept that seemed great when you pictured an actor in a movie featuring the class, but fell flat when it had to be converted from mind's eye to paper rules.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This archetype got one of my votes, but I would not say it rose to the top of the pile for me. I like the idea (OK, I love rogues and really love playing the skill monkey) I like all of the abilities, but I think the only thing that could have been done better would be to flesh it out a little more. Give some more abilities and make it more than 3 changes. I think the break curse is actually a great fit, and not something I even would have considered for a treasure finder but the multiple times a day does seem to be a bit overkill. It was the this unexpected ability that put it into the top 8 for me. Hopefully you will continue to think up things I would not have.

Good luck.

Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

Matthew Morris wrote:

Needs proficiency (whip)

!

And armor proficiency (fedora) :)

The treasure-hunter is a solid choice, and mostly I think abilities chosen are tight with the theme. Addressing curses and making magic appraise is a nice touch too (hmmm... might have tried updating synergy bonus to UMD). I agree with many of the specifics listed above though I think you still came out balanced. I cannae say that about everything I have read so far. Good luck :)

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 , Marathon Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Demiurge 1138

My first thought upon seeing the name was, "so, it's a rogue, then". All rogues are treasure hunters. Some of them just happen to hunt treasures that currently belong to the living.

This archetype is solid but uninspiring. It's mechanically balanced, but I'm not wowed. As such, it may have my vote. There were a lot of crazily front-loaded and/or overpowered archetypes on display this year, so solid mechanics might be enough to get a vote from me. We'll see.


Joseph LaMothe wrote:

Treasure Seeker (Rogue)

Part archaeologist, part merchant, and part cryptographer, these rogues follow weathered maps and dare ancient ruins to find the choicest valuables. Some treasure seekers follow profits, others knowledge, but all must be wary of the many defenses that lie between the rogue and his lucrative target. Treasure seekers need to be able to find lost marvels missed by less able explorers and shrug off magical blights left from primeval civilizations.

Disclaimer:

You should know the drill by now, but in case you missed it the first time round, Ask A RPGSupersuccubus is posting from the point of view of a CE aligned succubus:
Spoiler:
Fairness is an adjective applicable to hair coloration, balance is what a couple of mortals rapidly losing it on opposite ends of a plank pivoted on a rocky spire a couple of hundred feet above a slowly rising pool of molten basalt try to do, and logic is one of those things which you could swear is there when you rattle the piggybank but if anyone other than a demon opens it the contents turn out to be a couple of dead moths and a three week old shopping list.
;)

Would you want this person sitting next to you as a guest at a formal evening dress dinner party?
That depends on his personal qualities and whether he's currently operating in 'archaeologist', 'merchant', or 'cryptographer' mode. To be frank some treasure seekers can be a bit of a bore.
There's also a good chance that the reason that he's there is to try and raise money for an expedition, in which case he is likely to spend the evening in trying to talk you into loaning him however many thousand gold pieces and whatever gear it is which he needs, unless you ask him to shut up. And at that latter point he will then turn to the person on his other side (or lean across the table) and start badgering somebody else for a loan.

How effective a flower-picker does this person seem likely to be?
Do not ask someone who is 'part merchant' to go pick flowers for you. Unless romantically infatuated he will likely start trying to bring money into it, and attempt to talk you into upping any reward offered. It hopelessly spoils the occasion.
Plus he might not even come back with the flowers if he thinks that they'll solve some problem (poisoned village well, ancient curse, weretoad infestation, etc, etc) which he encounters along the way.

Could you hire one person like this to do a better job than one other trained mercenary and/or to do the jobs of two (or more) other trained mercenaries?
There's not much to interest me about a treasure seeker in between him and a more usual roguish type. There might be some slight situational differences in performance where the one or the other has an edge, but nothing wildly exciting. The circumstance where a treasure seeker might be useful is if a good deal of magical treasure is expected on some errand you're planning, at which point an experienced treasure seeker with his knowledge of items and his ability to shake free of curses would save on the costs of miscellaneous magical back up.

Other comments?
Yes, a temptress can play around with coy hints in response to a treasure seeker's near constant need to find funding for their wild escapades, but once you've funded him (or clarified that you will not do so) he'll just disappear off into the wilds or to look for another patron with scarcely a look back or 'goodbye'. If you're lucky he may come back alive out of some vague notion of honour six months or a year later, and report back (explaining that he found the golden whatever it was but that it got destroyed in a fight with a druid who threatened to destroy the whole world) before starting looking for funding for his next expedition...

Desirability:
Hireable. But be prepared for a lot of frustration.

Further Disclaimer:
Ask A RPGSupersuccubus (with half an eye on Lord Orcus) would like to clarify that mortal voters should probably rely on more than just her own (impeccable) assessments in making up their minds on how to vote. Thank You.

Osirion RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

The concept is fun, if familiar, and I like the idea of a non-magical character who can identify magic and fix his own dang curses he gets from robbing tombs.

This is a case, though, of falling into the trap of swinging too low with your ability changes. You gave abilities that are reasonable and make sense for the character, but you swapped them out for much better abilities that any rational rogue would rather keep and use, and just buff their Linguistics, Spellcraft, and UMD skills.

Going overpowered is a trap, but so is going underpowered. Unless the flavor is outta sight fantastic, folks don't wanna play a gimp. This isn't quite a gimp, but it's also far from fantastic. It's just kinda all right, but less good than just staying home with your Core Rulebook rogue and stack of Robert Goulet records. :)

Congrats on making round 2, and best of luck!

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ah! Someone else who wishes Paizo had left the PFRPG Beta rules for the Appraise skill well enough alone. I see you. Welcome, brother. Not that I'll vote for this entry, though. A Treasure Seeker archetype seems like an utterly redundant concept for an adventurer. But nice try!

Grand Lodge Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Name and concept: If it means something different than "player character", I can see a couple of directions that this concept might go.
Archetype mechanics, expression of the concept: Class Skills: Gains Knowledge (geography) and (history). Makes sense, I suppose. Is anyone else wishing by now the template had allowed designers just to say what they intended with class skills and take the copy/paste as read? edit: Apparently they are.
Find the Hidden: In exchange for rogue talent? Ow. That stings.
Assess Value: Pretty good, should be a Supernatural ability. Replaces what?
Break Curse: This is another painful, but in this case maybe worthwhile trade. I would at least want break enchantment from it.
Wider relationships: I like the idea of a researcher and ancient delver that's - only just - apparent from the design.

I don't think it achieves the necessary focus on any particular new idea (despite quite good description at the start of what he seemed to intend) and gives up far too much for a couple of niche abilities. In the end it may just fall short.


Joseph LaMothe wrote:

Treasure Seeker (Rogue)

Disclaimer: My ranking scheme for this round consists of given marks form 0 to 4 in the following three categories:

1.Is the Archetype conceptually interesting?
2.Are the mechanics of the Archetype interesting?
3.Are the mechanics of the Archetype balanced and well executed?
But rather than simply adding up the marks for a final score I'm gonna interpret them as a point in 3-dimensional space and the final mark of your submission will be the length of the vector between the origin and this point.
Note that my ranking doesn't need to directly correspond with my votes, as other factors like: Strength of your item submission, mood, my horrorscope and other random stuff still factor in. Also note that this scheme is highly subjective and only mirrors my perception and opinion about your archetype submission.

Conceptual Mojo (CM): 2, Nice idea, but maybe a bit too generic, all rogues search for treasure after all. I would have loved this, if it was themed more as a Gentleman Advenurer ( Indy Jones) archetype.

Mechanical Mojo (MM): 1, Finding hidden doors, identifying magical stuff and breaking curses. This one doesn't do anything special, unique or exciting.

Mechanical Execution (ME): 2. Pretty balanced, nothing over the top, but nothing unusual or eye-catching too. Too bland to hate or love after all.

Final note: this is a sound basic concept, but lacking spice on all levels. I would have loved this as an indy jones shout out, complete with Whip tricks and avoiding trap triggers with sleight of hands. But as presented it is bland and boring. Best used as a space filler in a book.

Total Score: 3

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

While some people think that the rogue class is a little bit weak, I’m not one of them. However, removing combat abilities and replacing them with things that can be done a lot better by other classes, or be done back at town isn’t going to make me want to play this archetype. The secret door and Linguistics thing I like, it is flavorful but what ability am I going to lose to get it? I would have gone trap sense, because it is the only ability that is even close in terms of power. Someone probably would have dinged you for not swapping trapfinding as well, but sometimes you have to try something new.

This archetype needs some other abilities to fill it out. You ampoule was gonzo, but this doesn’t feel like a big idea to me. I hope people reference your wondrous item when voting. Good luck.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 , Star Voter 2013

This is OK, but it isn't super-cool or anything. What is here seems pretty well executed, though. Given some of the misses by other entrants, that may be enough to get one of my votes.

That, plus getting dinged by the judges for doing exactly what they told you to do with the skills. I don't know why they put that in the template. Some APG archetypes, like Beast Master, list all class skills. Others, like Urban Ranger, have an "add this and remove these" line. I suspect this is because different authors took different approaches to changing skills and Paizo hadn't yet nailed down the style and formatting to use in that case.

Star Voter 2013

It's well-crafted, efficient and balanced. It's a little boring, so you might be on the losing end of "be bold or go home." Honestly, as a player, I would never play this class based on the name alone, because I associate it with lame, greedy thieves from earlier editions stealing from party members and motivated by the stupidest of all PC motivations. I will say that at least you didn't do the "gold radar" abilities that I loathe from prior items and PrCs.

Good work and sorry you lost a vote based on sheer bias, but them's the breaks.


Joseph LaMothe wrote:
Treasure Seeker (Rogue)

Not a bad idea, but I think you would have been better served to get really creative with the abilities. You could have given him more ability in discerning the location of treasure, not so much from the mechanics of hidden doors but from the "logical hidding places" earned from experience. That may have been your intent, but it came off as just an increased perception for secret doors. You could also have granted a form of detect magic, or even the ability to "Sniff out gold".

I don't like replacing Rogue Talents, and I especially don't like this particular character losing uncanny dodge, as it seems really important for a teasure seeker. I would have gone with eliminating some sneak attack benefit, since it's less important for this style character.

Break Curse is good.....DETECT CURSE is better! Just a thought.

A good concept, could have used some more creative elements.

Good job!

Ken


For me it was a question of where I could take this class if I played it and one thing leapt right out at me...This class would be an exceptional lead in to the Pathfinder Prestige class since it is in that thematic vain. However the one thing that kills this for me is the choice to replace Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge.

Despite the potential for this class I would not play it.


Disclaimer:
Ask A RPGSupersuccubus is posting from the point of view of a CE aligned succubus; and in the language of the Abyss ‘sorry’ is what you make others after you’ve had a bad day, ‘commiserations’ is the concept whereby if you’ve had a miserable day you go out and make others at least as unhappy as you are, and ‘sympathy’ is military jargon for a popular model of half a mile high siege-tower with spiked wheels, ballistae and fireball hurling catapults. (By way of explanation for the latter it’s a demonic joke: ‘See, we have sympathy for your situation’.)

Obligatory End of Round 2 Results Post:

Spoiler:
In the ever-shifting chaos of Abyssal hierarchies and social-networks, Good Manners are naturally essential. One never knows when a powerful demon whom one once jostled at a dinner party and whom one never actually made sufficient reparations to for the inconvenience is going to be the new landlady of your own part of the Abyss and looking for some demons to make Very Sorry having just had a bad day herself.
Consequently a multitude of books of etiquette are in circulation with examples of ‘appropriate’ phrases to use in various situations. I shall take the liberty of quoting a few:
“Abyssal etiquette, Demon Lords” wrote:
…Greetings, your most puissant highness…
“Abyssal etiquette, Apparent Mortal Who Is Prospective Dinner” wrote:
…Why sirrah, it is a pleasure to meet you. May one inquire, is that an enchanted cold-iron dagger of demon-slaying in your pocket, or are you just pleased to see me?...
“Abyssal etiquette, Guests Whom There Is No Longer Any Room To Accommodate And Who Are About To Depart Through A Trapdoor Into A (Possibly) Snake Filled Pit” wrote:
…Goodbye Mr. Bond…

(The author of the work from which I derive the latter quote is incidentally a fiend with a curious affectation for monocles and white cats who happens to be a servant of Andirifkhu.)

See you around another year, perhaps. Or maybe sooner if you feel like sticking around to post for the duration of this year’s contest... ;)

Taldor RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka ryric

Thanks for all the feedback everybody!

I learned a lot of things participating this year:
1. Plan my round 2 entry ahead of time. I really didn't expect to make it to round 2, so I found myself with 72 hours to think of, plan, and write an archetype. Within a week of submitting I had come up with several much better ideas.
2. Balance is not the be-all end-all here. I was too conservative with my archetype. Apparently I am more creative when I throw caution to the wind, like in round 1.
3. Don't read the comments on my own entry first - I was pretty miserable when I first read the criticism. I felt a lot better after realizing they were harsh on everyone.

Some of my thoughts on my design:
1. I really wish I hadn't had to list all the rogue's class skills, but the template said too. I felt history and geography were important to the archetype though.
2. For subbing out abilities, really the rogue has traps, uncanny dodge, evasion, sneak attack, and rogue talents. This concept needed to keep traps obviously. I'll admit I never really considered dropping any sneak attack - I think of it as a rogue bread-and-butter ability. I did consider dropping evasion, but that lead me down a path where I'd have to make a note about improved eveasion, and then maybe I could make evasion a selectable rogue talent, and it all just seemed to complicated to try and explain in a little paragraph.
3. I chose this archetype because none of the existing rogue archetypes in the APG make me want to play them. Also, "I want loot" is not as endemic a motivation anymore as in days of old - just look at AP campaign traits. Very few of them lure in PCs with the promise of vast riches.

Once again, thanks for all the helpful comments!

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 , Star Voter 2013

Thank you for the insights Joseph,

Keep on trying.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / RPG Superstar™ / Previous Contests / RPG Superstar™ 2011 / Round 2 - Top 32: Create an archetype / Treasure Seeker (Rogue) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Round 2 - Top 32: Create an archetype

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.