Pathfinder outselling D&D?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Liberty's Edge

ProfessorCirno wrote:

Just to double check, this is the same Dancey that for the past several years said tabletop games were due to die tomorrow, right? The one who two years ago said WotC itself would be shutting down and 4e would choke and die tomorrow as well?

As yes, his "insider sources." That he's choosing not to name. Or his "numbers" that he won't quote or actually show.

See those quotation marks? Imagine I made them in real life. Only with those big novelty hands, to sort of reflect on how "genuine" I find this.

Edit: His support for Pathfinder is hilarious, as before Pathfinder came out he was preaching the death of tabletop games and how 3.x was terrible. Hey, whatever lets you snipe at WotC, eh, Dancey? Nothing personal though, right?

Wow, dude.


As for Pathfinder outselling 4th Edition, it is entirely possible, as it is a well supported system that is still gaining steam, but at the end of the day, the industry is better off if both systems sell well, and I hope WOTC the best, despite their many marketing mistakes lately.

I think the bigger "problem" is that while both Pathfinder and 4th edition is selling well by the standards of most companies in the industry, WOTC, and Hasbro, are used to different standards, so they feel the need to chase some mythical numbers that are unlikely to ever materialize no matter how good 4th ed does. Both companies are used to having their product virtually dominate whatever market it is in, and 4th ed simply does not, and never will, do that; that's just the reality they have to face with a company like Paizo being present in the market.


I suspect the rise of Pathfinder has much to do with how Paizo has released only a few really expensive hardback books, but kept up a steady stream of very high quality, but lower priced supplements and Adventure Paths.

Wizard's on the other hand has churned out one massively expensive hardcover after another while eliminating lower priced material like Dragon Magazine.


Interesting to see how things have changed in a couple years (and encouraging). If I remember correctly, I read something about a year ago (how's that for hearsay?) on an EnWorld newsletter that D&D represented 80% of the RPG market sales.

I wonder where it will be a year from now? Will D&D even be 2nd?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's interesting news, but it's good to keep in mind that Dancey is hardly a dispassionate observer regarding the company who let him go.

The real measure is the long term. The long term viability for eiteher 4th edition or Pathfinder is how many young people are coming into either game. If it's just us oldsters making the large chunk of it, that's going to put a limit on how long either game lasts.

Very very few hobbies last more than a couple of generations.


Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:

I think someone at WotC went "Yay! Boardgames!" and everyone had to fall in line, regardless of whether the boardgames are what you'd want to play.

I feel like WotC's making decisions as though they believed that pirate PDFs were eating their lunch, and asked themselves: "Well, what can we sell that you can't download?"

I don't think that's a bad idea as part of a business strategy; it just feels like maybe it's too much of theirs right now.


Gorbacz wrote:
Between ICv2 report of PF equaling D&D in sales and recent news of Hasbro profits declining in q4 AND the fact that half of D&D product line got axed this month, I'd give Ryan's musing two thoughts.

Frankly, if it was anyone else, I might.

Dancey?

After the GAMA incident?

After his claims that the tabletop industry was a legacy product?

After he axed White Wolf's entire RPG development?

After he claimed that Warhammer Fantasy RPG was a derivitive of 3e for no given reason?

And after his claim over a year ago that 4e was going to die any day now?

No. He doesn't get a sixth chance.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It's called divorcing the message from the medium. Cref: Nic Logue (in the opposite direction)

Also: R.D. can shag goats and blow up small third world countries, but he was the force behind the OGL - and without that, neither of us would be posting on this forum right now.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Gorb, what makes you think it's a good thing we can post here? ;)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Gorb, what makes you think it's a good thing we can post here? ;)

I didn't say it's good. I would use the word viable instead, but I fear what would happen if I did ;-)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ProfessorCirno wrote:

After he axed White Wolf's entire RPG development?

I assume you mean the D20 lines as the Storyteller lines were still in production last I checked. So that's another strike on him then, he's the one who killed Scarred Lands and the WOW d20 line?


I remember late 80s , early 90s, you could hardly find a DnD game anymore. IT was shadowrun, cyberpunk, or Robotech (all of which I played), then there was marvel superheroes or even better Champions. The only ones that seemed to "roleplay" like DnD however was cyberpunk, if you ask me.

Battletech and Startrek tactical games swallowed up a whole lot of gamers in the late 80s too. Gosh i miss my klingon d-10g!

Anyway. I remember Beta-ing the not that old Pathfinder system, the players at my table had never seen it before. One of them went to college in new york no that long later and POOF there were several pathfinder games going and another went to college across the state, poof same thing!

Every gaming table was under the impression they had some "secret" new game system they were going to show "new players" but what was really happening was a phenominal explosive sales event for paizo.

It's really impressive how it moved into the mainstream.

I also think 4e is lackluster, and not what gamers wanted to see at all, but something a game designer had an easy time making.

I think alot of kudos have to go to Jason Buhlman , who without him, this game would be alot more clunky and tons less popular than it is right now.

Shadow Lodge

On the ground evidence: Yesterday, Local Venture Captain stated that the convention coming up will have more Pathfinder tables then 4e for the first time. I take that as evidence, along with the 3rd quarter sales reports, along with the reports that Hasbro's sales have fallen, as well as the abandonment of the rather good minis line.

sunshadow21 wrote:
I think the bigger "problem" is that while both Pathfinder and 4th edition is selling well by the standards of most companies in the industry, WOTC, and Hasbro, are used to different standards, so they feel the need to chase some mythical numbers that are unlikely to ever materialize no matter how good 4th ed does. Both companies are used to having their product virtually dominate whatever market it is in, and 4th ed simply does not, and never will, do that; that's just the reality they have to face with a company like Paizo being present in the market.

I think that sums up WoTC/Hasbro's problem. But I think they were showing signs of this before the jump to 4e, with increasingly 'neat' new races, the retcon of half elves from 3 to 3.5 that was a response to a balance problem but added an undesireable, logic free flavor. There was a ton of simular little things showing up for a long time.

I believe it reflected an attitude; we can slop whatever cr-p to the suc---, I mean customers, and they, (this is Hasbro now) because they are nerdy gamers we looked down on in high school, will buy it. I think a lot of customers sensed it for a long time before 4e came out, but no one said it because they thought they were the only one.

All the Best,

Kerney

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

ProfessorCirno wrote:


And after his claim over a year ago that 4e was going to die any day now?

I've seen this a few places. He said 4E was entering it's endgame, not that it was going to die "any day now". And frankly, I think his statement was pretty accurate when you look at the changes in 4E (particularly Essentials and this year's announcements) since he said it. Endgames take a while to play out.


I only have to go to my local game store to see the WotC 4e cardboard display case with Pathfinder products sitting in it.

Heh!


I always am amused how people can apparently listen to the same interviews, read the same texts, etc., and get such wildly different things out of them. And by amused, I sometimes mean frightened.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Treantmonk wrote:

Interesting to see how things have changed in a couple years (and encouraging). If I remember correctly, I read something about a year ago (how's that for hearsay?) on an EnWorld newsletter that D&D represented 80% of the RPG market sales.

I wonder where it will be a year from now? Will D&D even be 2nd?

That number had to be lower than that. From what I've seen in NYC, White Wolf and other games had taken up more than 20 percent of the market over the last decade.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Pendagast wrote:

I remember late 80s , early 90s, you could hardly find a DnD game anymore. IT was shadowrun, cyberpunk, or Robotech (all of which I played), then there was marvel superheroes or even better Champions. The only ones that seemed to "roleplay" like DnD however was cyberpunk, if you ask me.

You're also discounting the 600 lb gorilla known as White Wolf. For about 10 years I was sick and tired of AD+D and jumped ship just as 2nd edition was launching. I started looking for games that were a bit beyond "kick in the door and slay the orc guarding the chest" And so I played a fair variety from White Wolf, to Amber Diceless and a few other fringe systems, not coming back to D+D till well after 3.0 was launched.

I do think that the gamer population has fragmented into subgroups that are increasingly not talking to each other, some have gone into more story based games like Storyteller, others have gone into other hobbies such as LARPS, and quite a few have moved out of the hobby entirely.

Sovereign Court

jreyst wrote:

<puts cynic hat on>

Of course, this could also be due to WotC basically abandoning the print market since they are laughing all the way to the DDI bank.

Just sayin...

When have you ever seen a company let go of one revenue stream just because a newer one was ALSO making a profit?

Sovereign Court

Hmmm, makes me wonder how Castles and Crusades, The Dresden Files RPG, The Doctor Who RPG, Mouseguard, Savage Worlds, Shadowrun and The Battletech RPG are doing these days.

Plenty of other games out there now competing in the market place. Tons of honestly quality RPGs on the market that I'd be quite happy to see Paizo sitting on top of the pile with.

Grand Lodge

Stebehil wrote:
EDIT: A shop owner complains about WotCs policy of not announcing the cancellation of the minis line and some books more directly, but rather burying the news in a lenghty article on their website. Announcing more digital products does nothing to help endearing WotC to this guy, and as a final statement, he is not looking forward to 2011. link. While all of this is just one more or less ranfom opinion, I think it is interesting to read. The less-than-stellar communication from WotC sounds awfully familiar, btw.

LMAO that is my FLGS


When I was at Borders the other day I saw plenty of D&D, Pathfiner & Warhammer. The largest section was actually dedicated to Warhammer.

Honestly it hard to say what is going on over at WOTC right now, but I get the feeling that the company is in transition. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we heard an announcement of a 5th edition at years end, but admittedly that just raw speculation.

As for DDI, I just have a hard time seeing it as a secret run away hit, that for some reason WOTC isn't touting as such. I mean what company has a massive success with a new business model and doesn't brag about it, maybe I just missed all the bragging.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Gorb, what makes you think it's a good thing we can post here? ;)

My ability to pay rent every month makes me think it's a good think you guys and gals can all post here.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I meant me and RD and Gorb specifically. :3


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Gorb, what makes you think it's a good thing we can post here? ;)
My ability to pay rent every month makes me think it's a good think you guys and gals can all post here.

You don't need to pay rent don't you basically live in your office anyway? ;D

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Justin Franklin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Gorb, what makes you think it's a good thing we can post here? ;)
My ability to pay rent every month makes me think it's a good think you guys and gals can all post here.
You don't need to pay rent don't you basically live in your office anyway? ;D

In either case, Pathfinder keeps me from sleeping in the rain.


Hey, here's something I saw in the big Borders near my place, but I haven't had a chance to check out whether this is happening anywhere else: All the RPG stuff has always been together on the same shelving unit, but now, D&D and other Hasbro game stuff is totally segregated from all competing RPGs, which have been moved to the opposite face of the shelves, facing away from the traffic area. There's not a strategy here, is there?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Justin Franklin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Gorb, what makes you think it's a good thing we can post here? ;)
My ability to pay rent every month makes me think it's a good think you guys and gals can all post here.
You don't need to pay rent don't you basically live in your office anyway? ;D
In either case, Pathfinder keeps me from sleeping in the rain.

And all of that work is appreciated.


Twowlves wrote:
jreyst wrote:

<puts cynic hat on>

Of course, this could also be due to WotC basically abandoning the print market since they are laughing all the way to the DDI bank.

Just sayin...

When have you ever seen a company let go of one revenue stream just because a newer one was ALSO making a profit?

THANK YOU for that moment of logic. It's so frequently lacking in WotC discussions.


Dancey obviously is not without agendas and his share of unfulfilled prophecies but it does appear that for Paizo at least the future seems pretty darned bright.

ICv2 obviously doesn't cover all sources of sales and it's readily apparent to me that more and more 4e gamers have come to rely on DDI for virtually all their product needs.

It's unclear what that actually means for the long-term viability of 4e. Is Hasbro/WotC content to exist almost exclusively on monthly subscriptions while abandoning the sunken costs of hardback publishing and distribution? Is 4e winding down or does essentials mark a new phase in development?

It does seem clear that the bulk of revenue for any game line comes from core documents and that the marketable shelf life of editions is getting shorter and shorter for each successive iteration. I think the big brains at WotC probably realize this and feel that a steady although possibly smaller revenue stream via subscription services is a better long term plan than relying on a big uptick in revenue every 4-5 years when a new core is released. Considering the bulk of WotC revenues seem to come from other products that enjoy a steady, stable revenue stream it stands to reason that they might be trying to beat the Tabletop market into the same model.

Essentially though we all seem to be trying to predict the future based off numbers that nobody here really seems to have. Without concrete sales data and net profit statements from both companies (something which is unlikely to be forthcoming) being able to predict one way or another how the future is going to turn out seems exceedingly dubious.

Ryan will either be right, which he'll gleefully claim proves his wisdom and intelligence, or he'll be wrong at which point he'll either ignore his previous statements or possibly claim that external factors changed ;)

Not that reading tea leaves isn't fun but other than idle speculation it really doesn't seem to go anywhere :D


vuron wrote:

Dancey obviously is not without agendas and his share of unfulfilled prophecies but it does appear that for Paizo at least the future seems pretty darned bright.

ICv2 obviously doesn't cover all sources of sales and it's readily apparent to me that more and more 4e gamers have come to rely on DDI for virtually all their product needs.

It's unclear what that actually means for the long-term viability of 4e. Is Hasbro/WotC content to exist almost exclusively on monthly subscriptions while abandoning the sunken costs of hardback publishing and distribution? Is 4e winding down or does essentials mark a new phase in development?

It does seem clear that the bulk of revenue for any game line comes from core documents and that the marketable shelf life of editions is getting shorter and shorter for each successive iteration. I think the big brains at WotC probably realize this and feel that a steady although possibly smaller revenue stream via subscription services is a better long term plan than relying on a big uptick in revenue every 4-5 years when a new core is released. Considering the bulk of WotC revenues seem to come from other products that enjoy a steady, stable revenue stream it stands to reason that they might be trying to beat the Tabletop market into the same model.

Essentially though we all seem to be trying to predict the future based off numbers that nobody here really seems to have. Without concrete sales data and net profit statements from both companies (something which is unlikely to be forthcoming) being able to predict one way or another how the future is going to turn out seems exceedingly dubious.

Ryan will either be right, which he'll gleefully claim proves his wisdom and intelligence, or he'll be wrong at which point he'll either ignore his previous statements or possibly claim that external factors changed ;)

Not that reading tea leaves isn't fun but other than idle speculation it really doesn't seem to go anywhere :D

I can't completely disagree with you, but it still seems weird that WOTC isn't pushing harder for their online intuitive. If it's really so successful why haven't they hired more people in that area? Why are they still being slow in releasing new tools? Why are some tools that have where promised three years ago either canceled or still in production? And really, why isn't WOTC not bragging up the success their new business model.

I'll admit that I'm more often wrong then right, but it's just not adding up to me. If DDI is so successful, why isn't it being pushed harder?

Dark Archive

Not sure if everyone here is informed on some product changes and directions so I thought I would post them here.

Looks like bad news and some bad direction for Wotc all around....

WotC wrote:

Fortune Cards are a new D&D gameplay enhancement that showcase the chaotic and unpredictable nature of adventuring in a fantastic world of danger and magic. Every time players begin an encounter, they draw cards from their decks of Fortune Cards, activating the game benefit at the appropriate time. Each card provides a game effect that enhances attacks, defenses, or provides some other sort of benefit to a player character. For example, a card might provide some temporary damage resistance, a bonus on your next attack roll if you charge, or give you a reroll when a certain condition is triggered.

Fortune Cards are available in 8-card booster packs with differing levels of rarity (common, uncommon, and rare), and serve as another avenue for excitement at the game table. Players can crack open boosters of cards just prior to participating in a game session, or come to their game with pre-built decks. With each booster, a player’s tactical options for their character during the game alter and expand in interesting new ways. Integrated into all Wizards Play Network programs and other D&D organized play games in 2011, Fortune Cards create an instant, inexpensive purchase for players on the day of a D&D event at your store. For players playing at home, Fortune Card decks can be customized to suit a player’s character in an ongoing campaign as well. Players can also collect and trade cards with their friends as they build their Fortune Card decks.

It's important to point out that Fortune Cards are not a requirement for D&D play; they are an enhancement that simulates blind luck, the winds of fate, or divine influence. They have a thematic place in your D&D games. And they are an enhancement to the gameplay experience – they can be added or removed from a game when desired. Some players may show up to a game without any Fortune Cards, and that’s OK – they can still play D&D alongside those players that have them in action. For some Wizards Play Network programs aimed at experienced players, Fortune Card purchase will be a requirement to participate, but our broadly-appealing programs like D&D Encounters will feature their use without such a requirement. Once you start using them, you’ll see that they actually help to focus player actions and provide interesting tactical opportunities that you may not have considered previously.

Link

Make sure to collect all your rares before your next D&D game!

More bad ideas.

WotC wrote:
We have made the decision to depart from prepainted plastic miniatures sets. Lords of Madness stands as the final release under that model. We will continue to release special collector’s sets (such as the Beholder Collector’s Set we released last fall), as well as make use of plastic figures in other product offerings. Check out the Wrath of Ashardalon board game next month for the latest example of this. Moving forward, we will continue to explore more options for players to represent characters and monsters on the tabletop, including Monster Vault and other D&D products that feature monster and character tokens.

Listed midway down under "D&D Product Release Updates"

Now I can completely ignore Wotc and any of their product offerings.


Ismellmonkey wrote:
I can't completely disagree with you, but it still seems weird that WOTC isn't pushing harder for their online intuitive. If it's really so successful why haven't they hired more people in that area? Why are they still being slow in releasing new tools? Why are some tools that have where promised three years ago either canceled or still in production?

I'm not sure to what degree it's common knowledge to gamers who don't follow the software industry, but WotC is somewhat infamous for its gaffes in all matters technology-related.

For example:


Morgen wrote:

Hmmm, makes me wonder how Castles and Crusades, The Dresden Files RPG, The Doctor Who RPG, Mouseguard, Savage Worlds, Shadowrun and The Battletech RPG are doing these days.

Plenty of other games out there now competing in the market place. Tons of honestly quality RPGs on the market that I'd be quite happy to see Paizo sitting on top of the pile with.

Dresden Files has had a reprint. Initial print run was 6,000 of each book, and they had a reprint towards the end of July, 4000 more Your Story and 3500 more Our World. At least, that's what Evil Hat said on their site. It got them into 5th place on the ICv2 survey people have mentioned here.


I think the problem with various vaporware webtools is that outside of Character Builder they simply don't have the knowledge base or manpower necessary to do those sorts of projects in house.

It seems like they would either have to hire in a bunch of people (seems unlikely) or outsource development (something WotC seems to struggle with) in order to make a tool that might not see a significant return on investment I'm not really surprised that DDI seems to be largely limited to Online + Character Builder.

Now once the rights to make computer games reverts back to WotC/Hasbro from the current rights holder (Activision?) I could see more being invested in making an online D&D tabletop but that's probably years away.


Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Hey, here's something I saw in the big Borders near my place, but I haven't had a chance to check out whether this is happening anywhere else: All the RPG stuff has always been together on the same shelving unit, but now, D&D and other Hasbro game stuff is totally segregated from all competing RPGs, which have been moved to the opposite face of the shelves, facing away from the traffic area. There's not a strategy here, is there?

Does it matter what goes on at borders they will be bankrupt within the year


Joey Virtue wrote:
Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Hey, here's something I saw in the big Borders near my place, but I haven't had a chance to check out whether this is happening anywhere else: All the RPG stuff has always been together on the same shelving unit, but now, D&D and other Hasbro game stuff is totally segregated from all competing RPGs, which have been moved to the opposite face of the shelves, facing away from the traffic area. There's not a strategy here, is there?
Does it matter what goes on at borders they will be bankrupt within the year

Well, Wotci is not helping in my case at least: the #1 expense for me at Borders for the past five years has easily been miniatures, and that is money that neither of them will be getting, now.

Edit: All my Wizards purchases have been miniatures or miniature-related for the longer than that.


Joey Virtue wrote:
Does it matter what goes on at borders they will be bankrupt within the year

As the banking and automotive industries show us every decade or 2 bankruptcy does not mean out of buisness. I would imagine that Borders will be a player in the RPG distribution industry for a while.

Dark Archive

vuron wrote:
Now once the rights to make computer games reverts back to WotC/Hasbro from the current rights holder (Activision?) I could see more being invested in making an online D&D tabletop but that's probably years away.

I think Atari is currently holding the rights.


ProfessorCirno wrote:
After he axed White Wolf's entire RPG development?

As an Exalted player, I'm really wondering when this supposedly happened, exactly.

Former VP of Finance

James Jacobs wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Gorb, what makes you think it's a good thing we can post here? ;)
My ability to pay rent every month makes me think it's a good think you guys and gals can all post here.

Wait, you get to pay yours *every* month?

I must be doing something wrong...

Liberty's Edge

Gorbacz wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Gorb, what makes you think it's a good thing we can post here? ;)
I didn't say it's good. I would use the word viable instead, but I fear what would happen if I did ;-)

No need to invoke-by-implication people who aren't participating in the conversation! ;-p

Dark Archive

So with all these recent announcements, does this mean that my pathological addiction to purchasing miniatures just turned out to be an investment, rather than a burden?


Todd Morgan wrote:
So with all these recent announcements, does this mean that my pathological addiction to purchasing miniatures just turned out to be an investment, rather than a burden?

Yes, that's what I tell my family such things are as well...an investment. :)

Dark Archive

Todd Morgan wrote:
So with all these recent announcements, does this mean that my pathological addiction to purchasing miniatures just turned out to be an investment, rather than a burden?

IDK, I'm still holding on to one unopened Harbinger and two Dragoneye boosters.

Sometimes with collectables like these the price actually goes down after the game side is unsupported.
Usually in the case of a defunct collectable games - since the minis also have the dual role of serving as....er, minis who knows? Maybe the price will go up?

I lost interest in the minis line as more and more creatures started adhering to the newer 4e monster releases. It got increasingly difficult with each expansion trying to make 4e monsters work for my game (Frost titan mini vs. any kind of Frost Giant) and to justify the purchase of a random lot of bizzaro creatures. I started to go back to metal "classically" based minis and found that I was saving money in the long run.

Would have been nice if Gamma World was supported by minis line, even for just a few expansions. Could have had some nice Gallus Gallus 5/13 or Hoop minis to use for a pre-WotC Gamma game.

Ah well.


Chris Self wrote:

Wait, you get to pay yours *every* month?

I must be doing something wrong...

Thanks for paying my rent too Chris!

Contributor

The 4e "Fortune" cards remind me a lot of the "Bunk" cards WW released for the 1st ed of Changeling. They were pretty, but annoying, and too expensive, and the only real use I ever saw for them was someone sticking them in the band of his hat a la the Mad Hatter to play a Malk for a Vampire LARP.

The Exchange

Chris Self wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Gorb, what makes you think it's a good thing we can post here? ;)
My ability to pay rent every month makes me think it's a good think you guys and gals can all post here.

Wait, you get to pay yours *every* month?

I must be doing something wrong...

I would have to say, that as the Finance Managaer, if you aren't getting your bills paid, you definitely are doing something wrong. ;-p

All kidding aside. I just want to say keep up the great work Paizo! And thank you for making a product I love to play, and am impatiently waiting to teach my children to play. Thank you!


Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
The 4e "Fortune" cards remind me a lot of the "Bunk" cards WW released for the 1st ed of Changeling. They were pretty, but annoying, and too expensive, and the only real use I ever saw for them was someone sticking them in the band of his hat a la the Mad Hatter to play a Malk for a Vampire LARP.

'Tis true Kevin. But man how I miss my Changeling game.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

As I said after the Q3 report, it will be interesting to see how things look in the Q4 report. While Essentials products showed up near the end of Q3, the full impact of their sales won't be apparent until the Q4 numbers are in.

My predictions, based on the recent product change announcements:

Essentials overall did poorly. It was intended to draw in a large number of lapsed players. It mostly confused a lot of existing players. Other than the Rules Compendium, I predict the other Essentials products will have lower than expected sales for Wizards.

Gamma World and Castle Ravenloft did well. I would not be surprised to see Gamma World listed in the top 5 for Q4. Probably not above D&D, but significant enough to be a surprising percentage of their sales.

The results of which I believe will mean that stellar sales of Bestiary 2 will push Pathfinder in the number one spot for Q4.

I suspect the Q4 report will show:

1. Pathfinder
2. D&D
3. Warhammer 40k RPGs
4. Gamma World
5. DC Adventures

Whatever the numbers show, I still think it is a great time to be a gamer. As long as you are willing to look beyond D&D to the many other interesting games being produced.

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