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I feel like a complete moron for asking this, but are the archetypes from the APG only available at "level 1"?
Let me explain a bit more. I have a player who is a level five rogue. She now wants to branch to a Ranger and is looking at an alternate Archetype for the Ranger. My question simply is this - can she take it?
I know the RAW suggests that she can, but I just want to make sure before I give her the green light.
Archetypes are restricted to the first level taken of a given class. So if she is a fifth level rouge she can then be on her next level an archetype class ranger. but not an archetype rouge.
Archetypes are restricted to the first level taken of a given class. So if she is a fifth level rouge she can then be on her next level an archetype class ranger. but not an archetype rouge.
Not true. If there is an archetype that doesn't do anything until later you can choose it when the option to change out occurs.
Example: Rogue gets to level 3 and hasn't chosen an archetype. At level 4 they decide to take an archetype that trades out uncanny dodge for something but didn't do anything before that -- the rogue is in the clear. You can't trade out after you get a class feature -- or choose to not trade out for one if you take an archetype but until you hit the trade point you can still take an archetype.
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Archetypes are restricted to the first level taken of a given class. So if she is a fifth level rouge she can then be on her next level an archetype class ranger. but not an archetype rouge.Not true. If there is an archetype that doesn't do anything until later you can choose it when the option to change out occurs.
Example: Rogue gets to level 3 and hasn't chosen an archetype. At level 4 they decide to take an archetype that trades out uncanny dodge for something but didn't do anything before that -- the rogue is in the clear. You can't trade out after you get a class feature -- or choose to not trade out for one if you take an archetype but until you hit the trade point you can still take an archetype.
Actually, the AGP states "When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here."
However, it also goes on later to state that it's up to the GM "As long as the GM is comfortable with retroactively adjusting character specifics, there should be no disruption to future adventures."
So, it's both. They are really designed to be picked up when you first create a character or pick up a new class. But, it's ultimately up to the GM.
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You don't have to decide whether or not you're taking an archetype until you hit a level where the archetype in question would swap out your class abilities. If your archetype doesn't swap anything until level 5, you don't make a decision until you hit level 5 in that class.
And, and as the APG says, if you're GM's willing to let you retrofit an existing character to an archetype, that's totally fine.
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You don't have to decide whether or not you're taking an archetype until you hit a level where the archetype in question would swap out your class abilities. If your archetype doesn't swap anything until level 5, you don't make a decision until you hit level 5 in that class.
And, and as the APG says, if you're GM's willing to let you retrofit an existing character to an archetype, that's totally fine.
Do you have an errata on that or some official ruling? I mean, really, it doesn't matter. But the rule book does say "When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here."
To me, it's almost like your character is choosing a lifestyle. You get to new ability because you have been training the character towards that goal.
But, again, it doesn't really matter. It's totally up to the GM. But, I did want to make it clear what the AGP states. In case you are a rules nazi. :)
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Actually, Lachlan, you're missing a big chunk of text from the APG on page 72 under adapting existing characters. Relevant stuff is:
"As long as the GM is comfortable with
retroactively adjusting character specifics, there should
be no disruption to future adventures. Typically, the
best time for a player to adopt alternate class features
and significantly revise his character is when leveling
up between adventures, though he should always check
with the GM before doing so, as she may wish to work
significant changes to a character into the campaign."
You can read the whole thing as when a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features or the archetypes presented here, unless he is adjusting an existing character with dm approval.
Below that it talks about keeping pcs mostly the same, and why. If a player is unsatisfied with their character, or finds a section of the APG that fits their concept and would have chosen that archetype had it been available at the time, then you're penalizing and preventing them from playing the type of character they want to. A player who doesn't like their character, or really likes the new archetypes, will find a way to kill that character off, and create one with the new archetype anyways.
Which is the worst beast to you? Adjusting a character to more closely fit the concept of a player once or twice over the characters existence, or watching a player kill his character and replace it with an almost exact copy?
And there's another interpretation of the rule you quoted. "When a character selects a class, he must choose to..." can be interpreted as a character selects a class every time he levels. If he's rogue 5, then he's selected rogue 5 times. Every time he selects a class, he can choose to apply the alternate class if it's available.
So either way you look at it, the rules support implementation of the variant trees at pretty much any time.
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And there's another interpretation of the rule you quoted. "When a character selects a class, he must choose to..." can be interpreted as a character selects a class every time he levels. If he's rogue 5, then he's selected rogue 5 times. Every time he selects a class, he can choose to apply the alternate class if it's available.
So either way you look at it, the rules support implementation of the variant trees at pretty much any time.
That's possible. However, if you take an archetype, you must apply all of its changes, not just the ones you like. If you already took a class level that didn't include one of the changes for your chosen archetype and gained the benefit of abilities that would have been swapped out, you need your GM's agreement to change your character retrospectively and ret-con those game events. Hence, Sean's advice.
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That's possible. However, if you take an archetype, you must apply all of its changes, not just the ones you like. If you already took a class level that didn't include one of the changes for your chosen archetype and gained the benefit of abilities that would have been swapped out, you need your GM's agreement to change your character retrospectively and ret-con those game events. Hence, Sean's advice.
Agreed. It also means that if you take one archetype, you can still wait to select another as long as you still have all the abilities it switches out available for trade.