It means per level they get 1/4th of a point. So at 4th level, if they took the favored class bonus each level, they would get 1 extra point.
Answer: You add 1 point ever 4 times you take it. So if you take it 4 level you gain 1 point. You gain 1/4th of an evolution point each time you take it. You can not use just 1/4th a point however. So must wait till you have a whole point.
I'm not sure of any errata, but....
As per print rules, when u select summoner as favored class for 1/2elf, technically you qualify for the cumulative rule.You actually recieve for 1/4pt per lvl x20= 5/level. after 20 levels it comes to 100 pts bonus on top of the 26 on the class table. for a grand total of 126 evolution points!
Why does this not stack like the gents above stated? Well mainly because the paragraph talking about the stacking, the way they say to do it, specifically states these rules are for dice rolling. Summoners do not roll dice for evo points, therefor their stacking rules for this ability are in line with the example of the paladin for the accumulative.
I dont know if these rules have been erratad or not, they should be. By the print rules bard and barby, could have 400+ rds of song/rage per day. As well a a ranger with dodge to favored enemy at 1/3 lvls, after 18 lvls he cummulative adds 108 dodge bonus to AC vs favored enemy.
Also dont forget just because a summoner pet cant wear armor.. doesnt mean it cant wear bracer of defense like a monk :DSincerely,
Bruno "Leg Snapper" Scarpachi
*jaw drops* No, just no. This has nothing to do with the stacking rules.
1/4 per level. Period. 1/4 at 1st, 1/4 at 2nd, 1/4 at 3rd and 1/4 at 4th for a total of 1 extra evo at 4th level. totals 5 extra at 20th. The way you are thinking is just...wow.
*blinks* how in gods name can you come up with that calculation bruno?
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I'm not sure of any errata, but....
As per print rules, when u select summoner as favored class for 1/2elf, technically you qualify for the cumulative rule.You actually recieve for 1/4pt per lvl x20= 5/level. after 20 levels it comes to 100 pts bonus on top of the 26 on the class table. for a grand total of 126 evolution points!
Why does this not stack like the gents above stated? Well mainly because the paragraph talking about the stacking, the way they say to do it, specifically states these rules are for dice rolling. Summoners do not roll dice for evo points, therefor their stacking rules for this ability are in line with the example of the paladin for the accumulative.
I dont know if these rules have been erratad or not, they should be. By the print rules bard and barby, could have 400+ rds of song/rage per day. As well a a ranger with dodge to favored enemy at 1/3 lvls, after 18 lvls he cummulative adds 108 dodge bonus to AC vs favored enemy.
Also dont forget just because a summoner pet cant wear armor.. doesnt mean it cant wear bracer of defense like a monk :DSincerely,
Bruno "Leg Snapper" Scarpachi
No. Just no. Couldn't really figure out the logic behind this calculation.
You get 1/4 point at every level which you choose this feature to be the favorite class option, instead of the default hit point/skill point.
So, in a consecutive 4 level spread, it's 1/4 (0.25) at first level, 1/4 at second level (0.5), 1/4 at third (0.75) and 1/4 at fourth level (1 full extra point).
I'm not sure of any errata, but....
As per print rules, when u select summoner as favored class for 1/2elf, technically you qualify for the cumulative rule.You actually recieve for 1/4pt per lvl x20= 5/level. after 20 levels it comes to 100 pts bonus on top of the 26 on the class table. for a grand total of 126 evolution points!
Why does this not stack like the gents above stated? Well mainly because the paragraph talking about the stacking, the way they say to do it, specifically states these rules are for dice rolling. Summoners do not roll dice for evo points, therefor their stacking rules for this ability are in line with the example of the paladin for the accumulative.
I dont know if these rules have been erratad or not, they should be. By the print rules bard and barby, could have 400+ rds of song/rage per day. As well a a ranger with dodge to favored enemy at 1/3 lvls, after 18 lvls he cummulative adds 108 dodge bonus to AC vs favored enemy.
Also dont forget just because a summoner pet cant wear armor.. doesnt mean it cant wear bracer of defense like a monk :DSincerely,
Bruno "Leg Snapper" Scarpachi
........... Really I'm at a loss and can only assume you are kidding with this reading.
If you are not kidding, then, well, there is nothing I can do to help you.
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golem 101: you got the calculation right. take the ability 4 times you get 1 point now factor the cumulative as per the paladin example, and you get 1pt/lvl, so at 4th level you would have a grand total of 4pts for this ability 4 times.At 8th level you would have 8/4=2 per lvl is 16 total bonus points - 4(from 4th lvl)=12 more bonus pts at 8th lvl
Sincerely,
Bruno "Leg Snapper" Scarpachi
How do you get the 1 point/1 level thing? If you take the ability 4 times that means you have 4 levels under your belt (unless you have some weird HR about super-gestalting a quadruple-stacking class per level), so it's 1 point/4 levels.
At 8th level you have another 4 levels under your belt - again, considering you keep choosing this favored option - so that's another full point, which stacks with the 1 you've gotten at fourth level.
The bonus fractions sum up with the previous fractions obtained, they do not sum up as a bonus becoming entire numbers.
So, it's always 1/4 of a point, no matter how many times you've chosen this bonus before.
Stacking does not work that way.
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I'm not sure of any errata, but....
As per print rules, when u select summoner as favored class for 1/2elf, technically you qualify for the cumulative rule.You actually recieve for 1/4pt per lvl x20= 5/level. after 20 levels it comes to 100 pts bonus on top of the 26 on the class table. for a grand total of 126 evolution points!
Why does this not stack like the gents above stated? Well mainly because the paragraph talking about the stacking, the way they say to do it, specifically states these rules are for dice rolling. Summoners do not roll dice for evo points, therefor their stacking rules for this ability are in line with the example of the paladin for the accumulative.
I dont know if these rules have been erratad or not, they should be. By the print rules bard and barby, could have 400+ rds of song/rage per day. As well a a ranger with dodge to favored enemy at 1/3 lvls, after 18 lvls he cummulative adds 108 dodge bonus to AC vs favored enemy.
Also dont forget just because a summoner pet cant wear armor.. doesnt mean it cant wear bracer of defense like a monk :DSincerely,
Bruno "Leg Snapper" Scarpachi
Thank you very much. While I agree with the more conventional interpretations of this rule, I enjoy your interpretation so much more.
Therefor he gets to stack as per the paladin example of: 10times =10 pts energy resistance PER LEVEL! 10pts/lvl x 10 levels=100 pts of energy resistance 10 10th, its cumulative.
Deep breath....There is no PER LEVEL in the text. I do not know were you got your pdf but I am staring at mine right now. My advice to you would be to go to your my downloads section and re-download your pdf from paizo.
Favored class bonus is not per level it is a flat bonus that you add on to your character. You get 2 evolution points at 10 lvl from the bonus. A flat 2 points.
No, he is right:
"Unless otherwise noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For example, a human with paladin as a favored class maychoose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she
gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this
resistance bonus to 2 per level, 10 times raises it to 10 per
level, and so on."
This is on page 9 of Advanced player's Guide and it does say per level.
You guys are wrong. Most people don't read it as written, but it does say per level.
Well I'll be damned, it does say 'per level'. Of course, I have a first printing APG, but there is nothing about it mentioned in the errata. That's...silly. Though I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to the hit points or skill points for a favored class bonus, as those choices aren't mentioned in that particular paragraph.
Therefor he gets to stack as per the paladin example of: 10times =10 pts energy resistance PER LEVEL! 10pts/lvl x 10 levels=100 pts of energy resistance 10 10th, its cumulative.
Deep breath....There is no PER LEVEL in the text. I do not know were you got your pdf but I am staring at mine right now. My advice to you would be to go to your my downloads section and re-download your pdf from paizo.
Favored class bonus is not per level it is a flat bonus that you add on to your character. You get 2 evolution points at 10 lvl from the bonus. A flat 2 points.
No, he is right:
"Unless otherwise noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For example, a human with paladin as a favored class may
choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she
gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this
resistance bonus to 2 per level, 10 times raises it to 10 per
level, and so on."
This is on page 9 of Advanced player's Guide and it does say per level.You guys are wrong. Most people don't read it as written, but it does say per level.
I'm inclined to believe it's poorly worded. The example given would make the paladin's energy resistance /100 at 10. That can't be right.
10 levels in paladin with choosing this bonus 10 times. the bonus raises to 10/paladin level and gives him ER fire 100
I believe this is one of those instances of RAW not equaling RAI. In the example they give of the paladin energy resistance, the 'per level' means that a paladin would have resist 1 at level 1, 4 at level 2, 9 at level 3, 16 at level 4, 25 at level 5, etc, which is much too powerful. Though the evolution points would scale more slowly, as you'd only get 1/4 at level 1, 3/4 at level 2, 2 1/4 at level 3, 4 at level 4, 6 1/4 at level 5, etc.
I believe this is one of those instances of RAW not equaling RAI. In the example they give of the paladin energy resistance, the 'per level' means that a paladin would have resist 1 at level 1, 4 at level 2, 9 at level 3, 16 at level 4, 25 at level 5, etc, which is much too powerful. Though the evolution points would scale more slowly, as you'd only get 1/4 at level 1, 3/4 at level 2, 2 1/4 at level 3, 4 at level 4, 6 1/4 at level 5, etc.
I think it is if read exactly (the amount x level increases each time you take it)
1/4th at 1st (1/4th x 1 = 1/4th)2/4th at 2nd (so 1 point)
3/th at 3rd (2 1/4th points)
4/4th at 4th (4 points)
5/4th at 5th (6 1/4th points )
6/4th at 6th (9 points)
7/4th at 7th (12 1/4th points)
Etc
But you don't add previous level: you use new levels bonus. So at level 8, you are only 14 (16-2=14) points above old way of counting (normal way was thought to be 1/4 x 8 = 2).
close sunset but not quite, i believe. 1/4 at level 1 is 1/4. lvl 2 would be 1/4+1/4=1/2. so 1/2 for 2 lvls is 1pt. I thiink im reading yours right and your new total is with previous amount subtracrted if im reading it right. I tried not to do it by individual level . I did it by every 4lvls bonus pts assesed for easy math. so at lvl 4 i got 4 bonus pt, and at 8 is 16 pts but i already recieved 4 pts so i would get a new 12 pts at lvl 8. I tried to stay away from the individual level,some people go fraction!!! and their brains melt.
I'm terrible at math XD the resist one was easier, but yeah fractions are annoying. I just figured that the bonus per level was stacking, while at the same time the number of levels was increasing. So in the case of the resist, Resist 1 at level 1 (1 per level, 1 level), Resist 4 at level 2 (resist 2 per level, 2 levels), etc. So following that same math, evolution points at level 2 would be 1/2 per level x2 (1 point), level 3 would be 3/4 per level x3 (2 1/4 points), level 4 would be 1 per level x4 (4 points), level 5 would be 1 1/4 per level x5 (6 1/4 points), level 6 would be 1 1/2 per level x6 (9 points), level 7 would be 1 3/4 per level (12 1/4 points), onwards and upwards. That math would scale up to +100 points at level 20 (1/4 x 20 = 5. 5 per level x20 = 100)
man that eidolon would have everything I bet, fasthealing, sr, dr, blindsight, would be a relatively untouchable critter.
Likely this is why no one read it the cway it was written. I'm surprised there was no errata to that page of APG as it is a bad description or needs clarification.
Since there is some confusion as to what this clause says. Can everyone give us what APG they are using and whether the per level is in it.
Mine obviously does not say per level. I have an APG pdf acquired on May 11, 2011. Which is post Errata.
To make sure here is a direct copy of that paracgraph on page 9 of the APG:
"In most cases, these benefits are gained on a level-by-
level basis—your character gains the specified incremental
benefit each time she gains a level. Unless otherwise
noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For
example, a human with paladin as a favored class may
choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she
gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this
resistance bonus to 2, 10 times raises it to 10, and so on."Note: Some times Paizo Ghost errata's things and does not actually put them in the errata.
I'm using a first printing APG. If something is written differently in the second printing, but wasn't mentioned in the errata, which version is correct? It's especially important for PFS usage, as they can't expect players to go buy a second printing of a book they already own.
From the PRD:
In most cases, these benefits are gained on a level-by-level basis—your character gains the specified incremental benefit each time she gains a level. Unless otherwise noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For example, a human with paladin as a favored class may choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this resistance bonus to 2, 10 times raises it to 10, and so on.
my bold. doesn't say per level at all.
From the PRD:
In most cases, these benefits are gained on a level-by-level basis—your character gains the specified incremental benefit each time she gains a level. Unless otherwise noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For example, a human with paladin as a favored class may choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this resistance bonus to 2, 10 times raises it to 10, and so on.my bold. doesn't say per level at all.
So they errataed something but didn't tell anyone they errated it? Weird.
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What are you reading? This has been stated now, but this is a copy past from the PRD in its entirety
Racial Favored Classes
The final section for each racial discussion describes alternative benefits for members of that race taking certain classes as a favored class. The normal benefit of having a favored class is simple and effective: your character gains one extra hit point or one extra skill rank each time she gains a level in that class (or in either of two classes, if she is a half-elf). The alternate favored class abilities listed here may not have as broad an appeal as the standard choices. They are designed to reflect flavorful options that might be less useful in general but prove handy in the right situations or for a character with the right focus. Most of them play off racial archetypes, like a half-orc's toughness and proclivity for breaking things or elven grace and finesse.
In most cases, these benefits are gained on a level-by-level basis—your character gains the specified incremental benefit each time she gains a level. Unless otherwise noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For example, a human with paladin as a favored class may choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this resistance bonus to 2, 10 times raises it to 10, and so on.
In some cases this benefit may eventually hit a fixed numerical limit, after which selecting that favored class benefit has no effect. Of course, you can still select the bonus hit point or skill rank as your favored class benefit, so there is always a reward for sticking with a favored class.
Finally, some of these alternate favored class benefits only add +1/2, +1/3, +1/4, or +1/6 to a roll (rather than +1) each time the benefit is selected; when applying this result to the die roll, round down (minimum 0). For example, a dwarf with rogue as his favored class adds +1/2 to his trap sense ability regarding stone traps each time he selects the alternate rogue favored class benefit; though this means the net effect is +0 after selecting it once (because +1/2 rounds down to +0), after 20 levels this benefit gives the dwarf a +10 bonus to his trap sense (in addition to the base value from being a 20th-level rogue).
As in the previous section, what is presented here is a set of alternative benefits that characters of each race may choose instead of the normal benefits for their favored class. Thus, rather than taking an extra hit point or an extra skill rank, players may choose for their characters to gain the benefit listed here. This is not a permanent or irrevocable choice; just as characters could alternate between taking skill ranks and hit points when they gain levels in their favored class, these benefits provide a third option, and characters may freely alternate between them.
As with any alternate or optional rule, consult with your GM to determine whether exchanging normal favored class benefits for those in this chapter will be allowed.
*EDIT* I see the problem. I see the text in the original quote above in my 1st print APG. It states "per level" in the book. This is updated on the PRD, but it is not on the first errata. I am downloading the current APG and checking it now
*EDIT* The downloaded version is up to date with description in this post. PDF for Current Errata for Advanced Player's Guide First Printing v1.0 does not include the change
So in the end, the integer bonuses are added together. The factions give you the bonus at every whole number
*EDIT* www.d20pfsrd.com has the wrong info, most likely due to an official errata doc never coming out
Racial Favored Class Benefits (Advanced Player's Guide)
The normal benefit of having a favored class is simple and effective: your character gains one extra hit point or one extra skill rank each time she gains a level in that class (or in either of two classes, if she is a half-elf ). The alternate favored class abilities listed here may not have as broad an appeal as the standard choices. They are designed to ref lect f lavorful options that might be less useful in general but prove handy in the right situations or for a character with the right focus. Most of them play off racial archetypes, like a half-orc’s toughness and proclivity for breaking things or elven grace and finesse.
In most cases, these benefits are gained on a level-by level basis—your character gains the specified incremental benefit each time she gains a level. Unless otherwise noted, these benefits always stack with themselves. For example, a human with paladin as a favored class may choose to gain 1 point of energy resistance each time she gains a level; choosing this benefit twice increases this resistance bonus to 2 per level, 10 times raises it to 10 per level, and so on.
In some cases this benefit may eventually hit a fixed numerical limit, after which selecting that favored class benefit has no effect. Of course, you can still select the bonus hit point or skill rank as your favored class benefit, so there is always a reward for sticking with a favored class.
Finally, some of these alternate favored class benefits only add +1/2, +1/3, +1/4, or +1/6 to a roll (rather than +1) each time the benefit is selected; when applying this result to the die roll, round down (minimum 0). For example, a dwarf with Rogue as his favored class adds +1/2 to his trap sense ability regarding stone traps each time he selects the alternate Rogue favored class benefit; though this means the net effect is +0 after selecting it once (because +1/2 rounds down to +0), after 20 levels this benefit gives the dwarf a +10 bonus to his trap sense (in addition to the base value from being a 20th-level Rogue).
Each race page includes a set of alternative benefits that characters of that race may choose instead of the normal benefits for their favored class. Thus, rather than taking an extra hit point or an extra skill rank, players may choose for their characters to gain the benefit listed here. This is not a permanent or irrevocable choice; just as characters could alternate between taking skill ranks and hit points when they gain levels in their favored class, these benefits provide a third option, and characters may freely alternate between them.
As with any alternate or optional rule, consult with your GM to determine whether exchanging normal favored class benefits for those in this chapter will be allowed.
You actually recieve for 1/4pt per lvl x20= 5/level. after 20 levels it comes to 100 pts bonus on top of the 26 on the class table. for a grand total of 126 evolution points!
I thought I knew what ridiculous was, until this day.
I thought I knew what ridiculous was, until this day.You actually recieve for 1/4pt per lvl x20= 5/level. after 20 levels it comes to 100 pts bonus on top of the 26 on the class table. for a grand total of 126 evolution points!
+1. Even if this was possible, that's exactly enough evolution points to get every single evolution in both the APG and UM once. At what point do you look at something like that and think... "Yeah, that must be what it means"? Obviously, the 1st printing of the APG had a mistake. In fact, it had many. You have to be able to look at a rule and use common sense. Or take a brief look at the official PRD. /facepalm
The question is, if it was never errata'd, is it still technically official? Just because it was changed in later printings and the SRD, without an official statement of change, it seems like the 1st printing version could still be considered legitimate, since anyone who owns and uses the book would have no way of knowing that the rule changed.
How is this even being debated really? does that mean my sorcerer gets to learn every spell if he is human. WOOT no more wizards for me.
Yeah i know have a player who tried to pull these things for years kinda glad i moved.
But, again, without Paizo officially announcing a change, how would a person even know to LOOK on any of the other sources for said change? Ghost errata may exist, but is it really official if it's not issued as part of an errata document? Not everyone uses the SRD or the forums to realize these things. It could even potentially cause problems with PFS, depending on the books the people running the event have available. It would be an easy fix to have an official Paizo statement about it.
For the record, I completely agree that from a common sense point of view, that much of a massive bonus is clearly not intended. But I'm talking RAW here, not RAI. The differences between the two could be problematic.
I think any GM worth his salt would know better period. I mean really if you as a GM would agree with that arguement I think you either are very very new to gaming or plan on rushing the party with the tarrasque by level 10.
The paladin stacking example is a known issue and was, thankfully corrected long ago. There was a thread on it well over a year ago in which a developer chimed in and stated the intent (which newer books now match).
This is all old hat. If you want, you could probably find the old thread.
Also by this logic dwarf barbains 442+con rounds of rage a day. Thats almost an hour of rage with a 10 con. seriously who in their right mind would take this kind of logic and actually think its what the developers meant to happen.
It's not a matter of what the GM thinks. Yes, this would clearly be ruled as BS by any GM worth his salt. It's a matter of a lack of official documentation on the subject.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In some cases, RAW trumps RAI regardless, hence why I flagged this thread as FAQ and think other should do the same.