Dresden files

[Orthos]

Numerian wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

I don't think they're Outsiders in the same sense. The Denarians, being Fallen Angels, are from the Christian Heaven, which while distinctly outside the normal "boundaries" of reality is not the same "Outside" as whatever's beyond the Outer Gates. Moreover, they tend to play by the same rules as normal reality - they're affected by physics, they can be injured and damaged, and they use the same magic system as normal wizards like Dresden, just with deeper reserves - while Outsiders tend to be able to bend or break those rules (such as He Who Walks Behind being always behind his target, never visible except via reflection, etc. and being all but invulnerable except to Harry, who as stated above was specifically arranged to be born at a time where he could fight these things).

[Kryzbyn]

Spoiler:

Molly is a Carpenter. Her entire family are protected by Micheal's former employer. I dunno that Mab has considered this, or if it's as set in stone as she'd like.
I'm sure Harry will beat himself up over it plenty. He's still learning that there are things beyond his control, which was a needed lesson.
I'd like Lasch to show up again. I liked the Denarian's storyline.

[Orthos]

Spoiler:

I forget who it was in Cold Days but someone was telling Harry how he could resist some of the urges of the Winter Knight mantle. And remember what Uriel said at the end of Ghost Story about Harry getting to make the decisions, no matter who was pulling his strings.

I don't think we're going to see Molly turn into Maeve Mk.II any time soon, though I imagine we WILL see a lot of her dealing with the temptations of it. Probably won't help that Mab will likely try to egg a lot of it on. But I imagine Harry is going to take his job VERY seriously at this point, and if "protecting and serving the Winter Queens and enforcing their best interests" means (to Harry) protecting Molly from being overly corrupted/influenced by Mab I have no doubts he'll shove himself in between them to do so.

Honestly, I imagine much of the rest of the series is going to involve those two working together very closely, given their new positions, with possibly some side events involving Maggie. As much as I hate to say it, given some of the commentary at the end of Cold Days, I think we might start seeing less of Murphy now, rather than her being the one character besides Harry that's in EVERY book. Not so much having her role minimized, but Murphy has always been tied directly to Chicago, even after being fired as a cop; I can't see her ever leaving, and I predict Harry and Molly's stories from here on out will probably lean toward the more fantastical, with Chicago being slightly less of a backdrop in the future.

Kryzbyn wrote:

Molly is a Carpenter. Her entire family are protected by Micheal's former employer. I dunno that Mab has considered this, or if it's as set in stone as she'd like.

Now THIS is something I want to see - God and his servitors are MASSIVE supporters of the idea of Free Will, but the Fae are said not to truly possess it. I wonder if Molly will retain some or all of her own nature just through that alone, so long as she avoids succumbing to the temptations of her new role.

[Xabulba]

Orthos wrote:

** spoiler omitted **...

Spoiler:

Molly is not of fae either so she still might be able to lie unlike real fae.

[Matthew Morris]

Xabulba wrote:

Orthos wrote:

** spoiler omitted **...

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Mab, Lilly, Maeve, etc were all human once. Mab said as much. I do think that Harry will be able to influence Molly's nature by his 'naming' talent, like he did to Lash and Uriel freaked out about.

Another thought. What if the parasite is He Who Walks Behind?

[Orthos]

Spoiler:

Mab being formerly human does bring up an interesting quirk. Was human Mab the mythical Irish Queen Medb from whom Shakespeare might have gotten the name? Could be interesting...

[Epic Meepo]

Just read Cold Days.

"Vajazzled" is my new favorite word.

[Ivan Rûski]

Spoiler:

Anybody else thinking that maybe Harry's dad WASN'T just a stage magician? This whole "starborn" thing and Harry's power over names has me thinking maybe Daddy Dresden was something else. Maybe an Outsider?

[magnuskn]

Well, maybe he was a guy like Mac, who seems to be "retired" from the whole cosmic forces thingy.

[Kalshane]

Definitely agree on the gut-punches.

Spoiler:

I'm actually sad to see Lily go. And I don't see a bright future for Fix after this.

Molly getting turned into the Winter Lady definitely sucks.

Even without the Winter Mantle, Harry is getting scary. He's gone from avoiding taking lives at all costs in the beginning, to feeling guilty about shooting a major villain in the face, to blowing Ace's head off from the shadows with little more than a shrug. (There's a lot more to it than that, that's just a quick and easy example.) I'm really hoping Butcher isn't going to have Harry turn into the Big Bad on us.

All in all, I really enjoyed the book. Lots of great moments, some great laugh lines, the weaving of a bunch of earlier plot threads together.

Also, Harry has now destroyed the Earthly forms of two of the three Walkers by blowing Sharkface's head off.

Guesses on the third Walker's name? He Who Walks Beside doesn't sound quite intimidating enough (though He Who Walks Behind is a lot scarier sounding than He Who Walks Before, and both are official).

My one issue was Sarissa's characterization. In the early part of the book she was cool and competent (though obviously terrified at points) and interesting. The rest of the book she was just whiny and it felt like she was dragged along simply so she would be there to receive the Summer Mantle at the end.

Also, I think Butcher missed a good chance at some star-crossed romance there by not following up on the mutual attraction between Sarissa and Dresden in the beginning. I actually suspected she'd end up becoming the Winter Lady after Harry killed Maeve (I was close) but if he'd actually developed her character throughout the book and explored their relationship instead of just making her a tag-along for the last 300 pages, her becoming the Summer Lady at the end would have had a lot more punch.

[Orthos]

Kalshane wrote:

Definitely agree on the gut-punches.

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

RE: Walkers:

He Who Walks Within is the only one that really jumps to mind and sounds good; the next best thing I thought was He Who Walks Around, which is about as meh as Beside.

RE: Sarissa:
I did feel gut-punched sad there, but more for Mab than Sarissa. While he didn't connect her much to Harry, I think Butcher did a good job of playing up her closeness to her mother and seeing her permanently forced over to Summer and separating the two of them hurt for me. I personally never really thought she was supposed to be close to Harry, despite the flirting and what-not in the early chapters - that was more a thing she did because Mab told/suggested her to, I figured - and that the separation between the two of them is minor compared to the separation of her and Mab.

[Kryzbyn]

Orthos wrote:

** spoiler omitted **...

Spoiler:

Or perhaps a war between 'the light' and Fae is being pushed by a 3rd party, ie Nicodemus.

[Orthos]

Kryzbyn wrote:

Orthos wrote:

** spoiler omitted **...

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

I don't think it's Nick. Recall in the last Denarians book, Small Favor, Nick seemed to be out of the Black Council loop... which actually ticked him off, as he wants to be the BBEG, but someone's running circles around him and using his people (such as Thorned Namshiel) to do it.

If any Denarians are in on the Black Council, it's probably Tessa.

[Matthew Morris]

Kryzbyn wrote:

Orthos wrote:

** spoiler omitted **...

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Are angels/fallen angels Outsiders or part of the realm? It seems that the plan for the 'war' is to have Winter weakened so that they can invade. Amusingly if they aren't, Harry could end up working with Nic. "I want to bring suffering, misery, and the apocalypse, Harry. I don't want oblivion."

Oh and "He who walks Within" is damned scary when you remember Harry has a passenger...

I also think Harry will find a way to 'shrug off' the mantles at least for him, if not both of 'em.

[Orthos]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Spoiler:

Are angels/fallen angels Outsiders or part of the realm?

Mused on that here.

Spoiler:

In short, my answer is No, or at the very least not the same kind of Outside - they're strictly from/formerly from Heaven, and Outside does not seem to equal Hell.

[Sunderstone]

Read the first 8 chapters of Cold Days, loving it so far.

[magnuskn]

Spoiler:

It probably really is "He-Who-Walks-Within" or maybe "He-Who-Walks-Inside". Well, the second sounds kinda sillier than I initially thought... which might make it an ideal target for a joke by Harry.

And the third Walker probably is Nemesis.

[Epic Meepo]

Spoiler:

I'm going to guess He-Who-Walks-Between.

[Slaunyeh]

Spoiler:

We really need a "please spoil!" thread for this conversation. All these spoiler tags are getting silly. :p

[Kalshane]

Orthos wrote:

Kalshane wrote:

Definitely agree on the gut-punches.

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Well, my issue is that

Spoiler:

Mab has never been presented as sympathetic. So her "loss" of Sarissa didn't have much of an impact, for me.

I don't know, I was just disappointed that we got introduced to this potentially interesting character in the start of the book, and then she just ends up being dead weight for the rest of it until she "fulfills her purpose to the plot" at the end.

I really enjoyed the book overall, but it felt kind of rushed (which is kind of funny, considering this the longest Butcher has spent between books). It feels like he had a bigger plot than would fit into one of his normal-sized books and had to condense it to make it fit.

[Orthos]

Kalshane wrote:

Orthos wrote:

Kalshane wrote:

Definitely agree on the gut-punches.

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Well, my issue is that

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

To each their own, I suppose. I felt VERY sympathetic toward Mab at the end of this one, and I think the fact that she's never before been presented that way emphasized it when it came around. "I was mortal once too" was just as much a suckerpunch to me as Molly getting shanked with the mantle, and the whole thing of learning Sarissa was Maeve's twin and how she'd been interacting with Mab over the decades really made it hurt when she got shunted to Summer involuntarily.

[Matthew Morris]

Mab

Spoiler:

It's more a gut punch the more you think about it. Sarissa was Mab's last tennious connection to humanity. She lost both her daughters, and can't really trust Molly, or Harry. She's more alone than ever.

Aside. What the hell is in the well? I mean Harry tells Demonreach to take Mab below and keep her there if she screws with him. Demonreach basically says "Ok." IT can keep one of the high fae queens locked up? (apparently easily) and was stalling the two high ladies of the courts? And Rashid gave that a limp? Harry may be more powerful than in Storm Front, but if that's not "There's always a bigger fish." then nothing is.

[Orthos]

Spoiler:

Remember that the eight Skinwalkers imprisoned down there are the weakest things in that prison. Yeah, Demonreach has some serious muscle.

And yeah, Rashid is a badass.

[Matthew Morris]

Spoiler:

That's what got me. What is down there that Mab seems to be a minor issue? The more that's uncovered about the Dresdenverse, the more I find my jaw hanging.

[Kolokotroni]

Spoiler:

I think its less a matter of Mab being a minor issue and more a fact of mab being on demonreach's turf. When Mab asked permission to set foot on the island it was clear she had respect for it. I would imagine that the massive web of enchantments merlin laid out on the island offer the spirit a massive boost. It does after all have the nearly unheard of intellectus and pimpsmacked a whole army of outsiders. That said, they do reference 'dark gods' down in the well. I'm guessing the worst mythology has to offer is down there. I have to assume Merlin had some serious chops to be able to set this place up and to create demon reach who apparently can smack around the queens of fairy with relative ease if they set foot on his island.

[Orthos]

Yep, pretty much =D

[Chris Mortika]

I am wondering whether the original Merlin set up the White Council to be wardens of Demonreach, and whether their mission strayed, and if so, who's responsible for that.

[Matthew Morris]

Chris Mortika wrote:

I am wondering whether the original Merlin set up the White Council to be wardens of Demonreach, and whether their mission strayed, and if so, who's responsible for that.

Spoiler:

I'm wondering if Harry is the original Merlin.

[Marik Whiterose]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Chris Mortika wrote:

I am wondering whether the original Merlin set up the White Council to be wardens of Demonreach, and whether their mission strayed, and if so, who's responsible for that.

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

He may not be the original Merlin, but I'm willing to wager that he is related to him via his father's bloodline. Although his Grandfather has enough mojo to craft a spell to reach into space and drop a satellite on his enemies.

[Kryzbyn]

Spoiler:

Thinking along those lines, with people commenting on the curcumstances of his birth, maybe he is something of a Kwisatz haderach, a breeding program between fey-touched and outsider-touched humans to reincarnate Merlin...

[Orthos]

Spoiler:

He's certainly been bred for something. Adversary-possessed Maeve referred to him as a Starborn, and numerous characters have mentioned his ability to fight Outsiders is tied to his having been born on Halloween, which in Cold Days we learn is the only (thus far) day immortals can die.

@Marik: The only question is how much of that was Ebenezer, though, and how much was the Blackstaff (which is hinted to be Mother Winter's missing walking stick)'s own power? I have no doubt Ebenezer has serious chops, but it's hard to discern where his capabilities end and the Blackstaff's begin at this point.

[Matthew Morris]

Spoiler:

My Harry is Merlyn theory hinges on that Bob's 'Star Wars montage' specifically calls out that we don't know what Merlin looked like, so he used Obi-Won Kinobi. This could also make Molly his Nimue. :-( Plus it's my understanding Harry's going to break all the laws, of which time travel is one. I do wonder if he can not only fight outsiders, but if he can rename them, like Laschiel/Lash.

[Kolokotroni]

Spoiler:

Anyone else ever get the idea that what we are reading is Harry's Addition to the Shelves this grandfather currently posses? IE the Journals of Wizards Dating back to Merlin?

[Epic Meepo]

@Matthew Morris, re: the original Merlin.

Spoiler:

I've also wondered if Harry is the original Merlin, and there's some hint that it's possible in Cold Days.

Recall Odin's response when asked if Harry would be able to prevent the assault on Demonreach: "Perhaps you already have."

And note that it's possible part of Demonreach was built in the future. Bob states that its construction began a long time ago, but he says nothing about the time period in which it was finished.

Also, you have to admit Harry's accumulated a rather long list of Merlin-like accomplishments. So far, he's...

been born under an auspicious conjunction of stars,

defeated an Outsider while still a child,

killed a corrupted goddess,

assaulted the heart of Winter with the fires of Summer,

founded an international organization of magical practitioners,

wielded the fires of creation at the behest of archangel Uriel,

befriended the living Archive of all human knowledge,

redeemed a fragment of a fallen angel's soul,

guarded Excalibur,

been knighted by a Fairy Queen,

wiped out an entire race of vampires,

returned from the dead,

handled the Wormwood "star" mentioned in the Book of Revelations,

lead the Wild Hunt,

and saved the world at least once.

[Chris Mortika]

Spoiler:

Everybody else is posting under spoilers, so I figured it was the cool thing to do.

I admit I was surprised by Cold Days. I was expecting that a lot of the Dresden status quo would be restored by the end of the book, that Harry would be free of the Winter Knight mantle, that He'd have Bob back, that he'd be in Chicago, or at least that he'd have his wand and shield bracelet.

It seems that Harry's staus quo chas changed and is not changing back. At least not for a while.

[Kryzbyn]

Spoiler:

Until Harry loses the "But I'm just a guy" mentality, he'll keep going through the rough patches. I think Butcher is having him slowly realize he's meant for higher stuff, and is more than just a guy. Once that happens, I expect truly Merlin-esque things to take place.

[Power Word Unzip]

Wikipedia currently states that Book 15 is slated to be called "Skin Game". I wonder if it's going to focus on another naagloshii. (And what the hell would be the plural of that word, anyway?)

[Orthos]

Might be the same Shagnasty as Turn Coat. That guy's still out there.

I'm still hoping it'll be another Denarian book, since as stated before every book that's a multiple of five has been one.

[Sunderstone]

Just finished it. Awesome as always. Can't wait for the next one.

[Rynjin]

Chris Mortika wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

I'm expecting that by the beginning of the next book he'll have Uber-Winter amped versions of his old gear, plus some new toys. I'd imagine he'll have some downtime to craft in between campaigns-I mean books.

Power Word Unzip wrote:

Wikipedia currently states that Book 15 is slated to be called "Skin Game". I wonder if it's going to focus on another naagloshii. (And what the hell would be the plural of that word, anyway?)

Pretty sure the plural of naagloshii is still naagloshii.

[Kolokotroni]

Spoiler:

I am playing in a dresden rpg game and we took a highatus over the holidays, due to start back up again soon. Over which time i read cold days...and well yea the dresdenverse is a different place now isnt it? Just the scope of things and the reasoning for things has basically completely changed how i see the world. It feels even more earth shaking the changes was even if it has fewer concrete impacts on the world. Gonna be painfully hard not to spoiler everything at the first session for a few who havent finished all the books yet.

[Matthew Morris]

Rynjin wrote:

Pretty sure the plural of naagloshii is still naagloshii.

I'd tell you what it is, but the profanity filter won't let me.

[Blue_Hill]

Just found the series and I'm having a blast reading these books! In about three weeks I have read the first three of the series (Grave Peril being my favorite) and now I'm reading Summer Knight which looks promising. Like someone on the first page of this topic said, Michael is awesome. Cultural references are always funny and Butcher has really nice writing style.

If you are interested about The Dresden Files series, start reading. You won't regret.

[Madclaw]

spoiler:

I don't know if Harry is the Merlin, but a number of my friends and I are positing that he is Rashid. I know this sounds a little crazy, but reread Cold Days and the conversation about the wall. Pay close attention to when Harry describes Rashid. He mentions an all too familiar scar above Rashid's eye that Harry recently got. And he mentions that he looks a little different too. But that could be bad conclusions.

As to the contents of the Well, I'm thinking there's at least one of the elder dragons locked away in there. We've only ever really heard of 2 of them. And honestly I'd like to see more.

I do think that Harry is going to eventually find some of Merlin's stuff locked away in the Well though. Maybe his original staff or something.

[magnuskn]

The next book for certain will be a Denarian book.

[Kryzbyn]

Source?

[magnuskn]

Kryzbyn wrote:

Source?

Book signings and such. You can find confirmation on the official forum of Jim Butchers own site.

[Kalshane]

According to Jim Butcher, book 15 is

Spoiler:

called "Skin Game". Harry needs to team up with Nicodemus to steal something from Hades' (the Greek god) vault.

[Orthos]

AWESOME.

[Kolokotroni]

Madclaw wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

What exactly do you mean that he is rasheed? That they are the same person? Like time travel? You realize he describes rasheed as taller, has a different complection and having an accent that harry is very unlikely to aquire.

I think its likely that harry's family are descended from Merlin, since his grandfather has a set of grimoirs going back to the original merlin. But I dont think they are the same person or a reincarnation.