RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Star Voter Season 6
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My Wikileaks bit was intentional, BTW.
We often say things in private that we filter in polite company. By putting the 'Clark critique my item' thread up, it gives additional time to 'self censor' what might have been said in private.
Sean, for example, may have looked at the top 32 last year and said to Clark "Good lord that rednecked idiot from Ohio got in again!" and rolled his eyes. He'd never say that in public, but he'd say "Congratulations, Matt." even if through gritted teeth. :-)
Likewise, the 'Belt of Irritable Bowels' might get in the 'critique my item thread' a polite "The item violated a couple of auto reject rules and didn't even really get looked over." But in the judges room, it got a "Oh gods, an item that broke so many autoreject rules, does this guy even know how to read? Or is he just trying to make me stroke out?"
If our mythical belt submitter was serious about his item, one is constructive criticism, the other isn't.
Most everyone (including me, I'll admit*) enjoys watching Simon (or Nigel or Pierce**) rip into a no talent hack who doesn't see they're a no talent hack. They volunteer to be ripped into, and sometimes don't even realize they suck. For better or worse, the message boards are more a 'personal' community, and, though we all fail***, some level of civility should be maintained.
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I just had to make this comment... and of course I'm just kidding... but... Are your reject and keep buttons close enough together than you might hit the wrong one and eternally doom that submission by mistake?
Bwaahhahahaha..... bwaahahahhahaa....
Of course, your just kidding. Of course....
Chief Technical Officer
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Hopefully, for my item, the quote starts "This is a cool item, but..." before going on to say "this item's name is crap"The only issue with that, I can think of, is that some judges may not be comfortable with their comments going public.Considering that some of my comments include, "this item's name is crap," yes.... ;)
Given that the name is the first thing they see, odds are best that comments about crap names come first. A lousy name will most certainly start the judges off predisposed against your item.
Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8
aka ugly child
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I will be most interested in seeing any feedback and don't bruise easily. This is the first year I've taken part and been enjoying everything about the process. I will defiantly be taking part next year if I have the chance.
I will defiantly be taking part next year if I have the chance.
Defiantly? Or definitely? Or both? ;-)
Neil, you may need a bigger piggy bank after this contest...
Given that the name is the first thing they see, odds are best that comments about crap names come first. A lousy name will most certainly start the judges off predisposed against your item.Hopefully, for my item, the quote starts "This is a cool item, but..." before going on to say "this item's name is crap"The only issue with that, I can think of, is that some judges may not be comfortable with their comments going public.Considering that some of my comments include, "this item's name is crap," yes.... ;)
I think that broke a record for me. That's the most responses I've ever gotten to a post on one of these threads that actually quoted me :)
Ken
I agree. And, there is even a chance they wouldn't give that honest of a comment. They might just say..."reject"!Some of the judges' comments go exactly like that.
Not mine, mind you. I have this tendency to spend 5,000 words per post. But, even on a few of them, some other judge got there before me. I'd read their assessment and just say, "Agreed. Vote to Reject." And then push the Reject button for us. In fact, I daresay I was the primary button-pusher this year. If you went to the Keep or Reject pile, odds are I pressed the shiny, red button that put you there. Okay. It's not really a shiny, red button...
** spoiler omitted **
looks like I got ninja'd by two people who were braver than me
Are you the underwear guy?
I agree. And, there is even a chance they wouldn't give that honest of a comment. They might just say..."reject"!Some of the judges' comments go exactly like that.
Not mine, mind you. I have this tendency to spend 5,000 words per post. But, even on a few of them, some other judge got there before me. I'd read their assessment and just say, "Agreed. Vote to Reject." And then push the Reject button for us. In fact, I daresay I was the primary button-pusher this year. If you went to the Keep or Reject pile, odds are I pressed the shiny, red button that put you there. Okay. It's not really a shiny, red button...
Hey, wait a minute!
Are the keep and reject buttons real close together? Did you look really carefully before you pressed the button?? I demand a recount!!!
** spoiler omitted **
I believe they are labeled Tea or Cake or Death
Hopefully, for my item, the quote starts "This is a cool item, but..." before going on to say "this item's name is crap"The only issue with that, I can think of, is that some judges may not be comfortable with their comments going public.Considering that some of my comments include, "this item's name is crap," yes.... ;)
That's what I fear. I hate naming things with a passion.
Hey all, hope you all had a good break (finishes last bit of icing... mmmm, nice).
I dont think you need worry too much about whether you can get your item feedback. I have entered every year, and every year, I've posted my feeble entries to the noticeboards and gotten all the feedback and more I could possibly want.
You see, it goes like this...
Post item if you didnt make the cut...
The wonderful people on these boards will often post indepth feedback, why they would use it, why they wouldnt and usually before the judges do.
And you know something - in all the years, that feedback has been pretty spot on and often the judges would simply post "Yup, that sums it up well".
So dont fret or worry, if you dont make the cut and are willing to take the feedback, you will get it, in spades.
That's how good these people here are.
And I wouldnt be suprised to find the judges and paizo look at these comments by others to guage what we as the buying public deem as worth pursuing. I know I would if I were them.
Considering that some of my comments include, "this item's name is crap," yes.... ;)
As long as it goes "this item's name is crap - but gosh darnit, we must have this mind - this talent! - in the next round!" I can learn to live with it ;)
Note that I wrote an an auto-reject advice post about item names. An item called bolt cutter is exactly the sort of thing that would make me say "this name is crap." But there are tons of less-obscure items that also fall into the "name is crap" characterization, mainly ones that are {class name} + {piece of equipment}.
Monk's belt
Summoner's robe
Alchemist's belt
Paladin's helm
Boots of sorcery
And so on.
Bland, flavorless names that tell you nothing about what the item does. Read those item names. Do any of them make you go, "Ooh, that sounds really cool, I want that for my character!"?
And any of those item names could easily be mistaken for a common, nonmagical item:
GM: That last crossbow bolt kills the alchemist, and he falls over dead.
Player #1: I take the alchemist's belt!
Player #2: How do you know he has an alchemist's belt? We haven't even used detect magic on him yet?
Naming items like this is about as bland as letting a player name his character "Fred."
once the voting is done i will gladly submit myself to the mercy of the judges to rate my item no matter if i succeed or fail! i after all have no pride to wound! lol
Naming items like this is about as bland as letting a player name his character "Fred."
I would like you to know my name is Fred and I like it just fine...
(BTW- My name isn't really Fred, just giving Sean some grief due to the fact he hasn't received any today.) Sorry Sean, just couldn't resist, I am sure I will get your wrath at some point in the next couple of days ;)
Elric of Toblerone, the Varisian white-chocholatier and his ladel, Stormbringer... think:
If one were to ask ANY player/character if their Monk wanted a Monk's Belt... they'd be excited and salivate.
Robe of the Archmagi is another such item, and the quintessential Cloak and Boots of Elvenkind (if they were an Elf).
I'd consider these "bland" items ubiquitous and an integral part of Dungeons & Dragons lore. Now, we may want to change that in Pathfinder... agreed.
The post at the other end of that link only mentioned real world items, mundane items, etc...
This is kinda new info in a sense.
For you folks who could have used this advise, sorry! But, Glitterdust Gnache, stands! J/K.
PS: Didn't spell check, sorry if I botched something... small brain, chirp.
If one were to ask ANY player/character if their Monk wanted a Monk's Belt... they'd be excited and salivate.
Robe of the Archmagi is another such item, and the quintessential Cloak and Boots of Elvenkind (if they were an Elf).
I'd consider these "bland" items ubiquitous and an integral part of Dungeons & Dragons lore. Now, we may want to change that in Pathfinder... agreed.
The post at the other end of that link only mentioned real world items, mundane items, etc...
This is kinda new info in a sense.
It's not that new; it's come up a few times on this forum during Sean's autoreject posting flurry. For example:
... there are tons of less-obscure items that also fall into the "name is crap" characterization, mainly ones that are {class name} + {piece of equipment}.
Monk's belt
Summoner's robe
Alchemist's belt
Paladin's helm
Boots of sorceryAnd so on.
Bland, flavorless names that tell you nothing about what the item does. Read those item names. Do any of them make you go, "Ooh, that sounds really cool, I want that for my character!"?
The above boring names tell me they have something to do with that class. No, they aren't exciting, but they say more about function than more flavorful names. The book is full of [class/race]'s [object] or [object] of [skill/spell/effect]. I've always preferred names that are more than a brief summary of what they do. Troll Knuckle sounds much better to me than Ring of Regeneration, but it tells less about the function of the item.
TSR removed all the flavor names from the spells/items in 3rd to preserve their IP with respect to releasing things for OGL, so we get tons of the formulaic names.
Would the "cool factor" for the Monk's Belt be higher if it were called The Sash of Wu Ping, Sensei's Black Belt, or Beat-down Belt? Depends on the player and maybe the character, I suppose.
The Sash of Wu Ping
...I see what you did there.
If one were to ask ANY player/character if their Monk wanted a Monk's Belt... they'd be excited and salivate.
That's because you have read the item description and know exactly what a monk's belt does. But what about monk's shoes, or a monk's robe, or a monk's gloves? Bland, meaningless, boring, and mundane.
Robe of the Archmagi is another such item, and the quintessential Cloak and Boots of Elvenkind (if they were an Elf).
"Archmagi" isn't a class, and it at least implies significant power.
As with the belt, the cloak of elvenkind and boots of elvenkind only have moderately cool names (better than "cloak of the elf"), and you know what they do so you're associating that knowledge with the name.Compared to, say, axe of the dwarvish lords, which sounds badass (moreso than a dwarven axe).
I'd consider these "bland" items ubiquitous and an integral part of Dungeons & Dragons lore. Now, we may want to change that in Pathfinder... agreed.
As I've said before, there are many dull-but-necessary items in the game. That doesn't make them superstar items.
The post at the other end of that link only mentioned real world items, mundane items, etc...
"Alchemist's belt" is just as real-world and mundane as "fighter's belt." Alchemists exist. Fighters exist. They often wear belts. Name is boring. As is "writer's pen" or "photographer's lens."
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Elric of Toblerone, the Varisian white-chocholatier and his ladel, Stormbringer... think:
If one were to ask ANY player/character if their Monk wanted a Monk's Belt... they'd be excited and salivate.
Robe of the Archmagi is another such item, and the quintessential Cloak and Boots of Elvenkind (if they were an Elf).
I'd consider these "bland" items ubiquitous and an integral part of Dungeons & Dragons lore. Now, we may want to change that in Pathfinder... agreed.
The post at the other end of that link only mentioned real world items, mundane items, etc...
This is kinda new info in a sense.
For you folks who could have used this advise, sorry! But, Glitterdust Gnache, stands! J/K.
PS: Didn't spell check, sorry if I botched something... small brain, chirp.
I think this has been covered in that it's been said before that "good enough for a book of magic items" doesn't necessarily make it good enough for RPG Superstar. Sean has said more than once that there are items in the Core Rulebook (some of them the staples you mention above) that wouldn't cut in this contest.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Sean...
Uncle, uncle... I'm good gents. A little clarification is all that I wanted.
Now, put down the Gavel of the Judge and the Whips of the Judge's Henchmen or I'll have to put on this Cavalier's Hosen!
Thanks, guys.
Peace
any of these items are better then the item i auto rejected myself....."Self esteem of the stripper"
I think this has been covered in that it's been said before that "good enough for a book of magic items" doesn't necessarily make it good enough for RPG Superstar. Sean has said more than once that there are items in the Core Rulebook (some of them the staples you mention above) that wouldn't cut in this contest.
I actually agree with most of the things John Turner is saying. In essence, are we to believe that the creators of d&d 3.5 created nothing "superstar", considering that the people of this contest are aspiring to be "like" them?
That being said... I don't have to much concern about this whole aspect.
Consider these item names. Many of them share similarities with what was stated here, but they are still considered "superstar". Item Function > Item Name.
I actually agree with most of the things John Turner is saying. In essence, are we to believe that the creators of d&d 3.5 created nothing "superstar", considering that the people of this contest are aspiring to be "like" them?
There is a necessary place in the game for an item that gives you a +X to saving throws, a +Y to attacks, a +Z to AC, and so on. That doesn't mean the person who writes those items being creative in doing so. It's not a knock on their creativity, it just means that something can be essential for the game without being exciting.
To put it a different way: even a Lamborghini needs floor mats. Designing the floor mats for the Lamborghini is necessary, but it sure as hell isn't as exciting as designing the engine or the shell. Even if it's the same guy designing both.
I can't believe people are still arguing with me about this. :p
There is a necessary place in the game for an item that gives you a +X to saving throws, a +Y to attacks, a +Z to AC, and so on.
Come on now, I'm not arguing... just relating. Besides, I agree with what you say above... because those are boring (but necessary)functions! lol.
However, he was talking about names. I know you don't like the name of the Monks Belt , but how is that so different from the Thieves Cowl (in name). Now, I must be fair. I don't see a post from you on that item and it was the first RPG superstar so that's a dead horse.
I bet SKR gets tired of seeing, "---- of the ----"
There is a necessary place in the game for an item that gives you a +X to saving throws, a +Y to attacks, a +Z to AC, and so on.
Come on now, I'm not arguing... just relating. Besides, I agree with what you say above... because those are boring (but necessary)functions! lol.
However, he was talking about names. I know you don't like the name of the Monks Belt , but how is that so different from the Thieves Cowl (in name). Now, I must be fair. I don't see a post from you on that item and it was the first RPG superstar so that's a dead horse.
Names aren't everything, if the rest of the item is awesome superstar material something can pull through with a lackluster name. Competition is a lot fiercer though, as the number of entrants has probably doubled each year and a significant amount of those have learned from the previous years and all the advice out there to improve the overall quality of items.
However, he was talking about names. I know you don't like the name of the Monks Belt , but how is that so different from the Thieves Cowl (in name). Now, I must be fair. I don't see a post from you on that item and it was the first RPG superstar so that's a dead horse.
Yes, I wasn't a judge for the first RPG Superstar competition. If I were, I would have hammered people about crappy names there, too. ;
I bet SKR gets tired of seeing, "---- of the ----"
I dunno, "Butt of the Monkey" would be worth at least a laugh. And then would get tossed...
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Creative Director
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I bet SKR gets tired of seeing, "---- of the ----"
I sure as hell do.
That format is the MOST overused construction of all time for adventures, it seems. We make a VERY conscious effort to avoid building adventure titles like that today, and even then, we can't always avoid it entirely. (Witness the upcoming "Tomb of the Iron Medusa" or Kingmaker's "Sound of a Thousand Screams.)
Did you really just talk about tossing the "Butt of the Monkey?"
Will this post get deleted by the internet decency police?
Not by me. :P
I bet SKR gets tired of seeing, "---- of the ----"I sure as hell do.
That format is the MOST overused construction of all time for adventures, it seems. We make a VERY conscious effort to avoid building adventure titles like that today, and even then, we can't always avoid it entirely. (Witness the upcoming "Tomb of the Iron Medusa" or Kingmaker's "Sound of a Thousand Screams.)
Or the Cult of the ebon destroyers ;)
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7
aka Draconas
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Or the Cult of the ebon destroyers ;)I bet SKR gets tired of seeing, "---- of the ----"I sure as hell do.
That format is the MOST overused construction of all time for adventures, it seems. We make a VERY conscious effort to avoid building adventure titles like that today, and even then, we can't always avoid it entirely. (Witness the upcoming "Tomb of the Iron Medusa" or Kingmaker's "Sound of a Thousand Screams.)
Funny, reviewing the titles of all twelve previous Final Four Adventure Proposals from the three years of RPG Superstar, I found each of them use this title scheme but three (maybe four, but I'm counting 'The Cliffs of Shattered Glass' in the "___ of the ___" group): From Time's Depths, Dragonrest Isle, and Denying the Boiling Beast. Each year's winner was a "___ of the ___" as well.
I think the usage of "___ of the ___" is a stereotype of game design by this point. Doesn't mean its a bad thing, things don't become stereotypes without a reason, usually because it works very well for most titles.
I've got to give myself a break from these boards.
I follow along most of the Superstar threads - with confidence in my submission waxing and waning with every revelation of "I missed that pitfall" or "hmm, that item sounds like mine".
The 18th can NOT get here soon enough.
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I've got to give myself a break from these boards.
I follow along most of the Superstar threads - with confidence in my submission waxing and waning with every revelation of "I missed that pitfall" or "hmm, that item sounds like mine".
The 18th can NOT get here soon enough.
Yeah. I have the feeling my first year entry didn't make it. But, it will be interesting to get feedback on it for next year.
Hah my item is "The -- of --" lol breaking outside the format!
or am I..........
new artifact! The Archmagi of the Robe, specializes in tailor spells....
The giant of belt's strength! a giant strong enough to hold up pants....
From now on people will try really hard to avoid this scheme and next year we'll get tons of items like:
Winterboots
Darkvision lens
alchemy gloves
Archwizard robes
Giantstrength belt
Adaption Neclace
Monk-y Pants
There is a necessary place in the game for an item that gives you a +X to saving throws, a +Y to attacks, a +Z to AC, and so on.
Come on now, I'm not arguing... just relating. Besides, I agree with what you say above... because those are boring (but necessary)functions! lol.
However, he was talking about names. I know you don't like the name of the Monks Belt , but how is that so different from the Thieves Cowl (in name). Now, I must be fair. I don't see a post from you on that item and it was the first RPG superstar so that's a dead horse.
It really comes down to this: You have the contest judges in here telling you what they think is superstar and not superstar. Feel free to take that advice or disregard it at your peril. :)
Imagine this:
Teacher: "Please turn your writing assignement in on Friday. You are reminded, that to get an A, you must include a cover on your report."
Student: "But I think my report is awesome on its own! You are wrong! The report doesnt need a cover!"
Result: student turns in report without cover, student gets B.
Its the same thing here.
You actually have the people who are evaluating your submissions telling you what you have to have to get an A and you are arguing with the teacher. Bad idea.
Sean: "Please turn in your wondrous item by Friday. To get an A and make top 32, it has to have an awesome name, not a boring name like 'amulet of flying'."
Contestant: "No, you are wrong! Look in the DMG/Core rules! There are all sorts of items in there with names like 'amulet of flying'!"
Result: Contestant submits cool item with lame name, it fails to make top 32.
We have a thread about this every year. People confuse "its in the game" with "its Superstar." Those are two different things. The game contains lots of meat and potatoes content that you simply have to have in your game. The judges dont want meat and potatoes, they want superstar. That's not a criticism of the designer that made the boots of elven kind.
The question is NOT "could my item stand beside other wondrous items on the list of current items?"
This contest is NOT "open call for other good wondrous items". This contest is "RPG Freaking Superstar!"
So if you need it explained to you that "dwarven axe" is not a superstar name but the same weapon entitled "axe of the dwarvish lords" may be superstar then perhaps this contest isnt for you. :)
Peace.
Clark
Clark, I can't see your post
Me either. Too bad, it was awesome.
Me either. Too bad, it was awesome.
It is awesome, and a good example ;)
Here's Clark's post (which you can still find in his Recent Posts off his profile page):
It really comes down to this: You have the contest judges in here telling you what they think is superstar and not superstar. Feel free to take that advice or disregard it at your peril. :)
Imagine this:
Teacher: "Please turn your writing assignement in on Friday. You are reminded, that to get an A, you must include a cover on your report."
Student: "But I think my report is awesome on its own! You are wrong! The report doesnt need a cover!"
Result: student turns in report without cover, student gets B.Its the same thing here.
You actually have the people who are evaluating your submissions telling you what you have to have to get an A and you are arguing with the teacher. Bad idea.
Sean: "Please turn in your wondrous item by Friday. To get an A and make top 32, it has to have an awesome name, not a boring name like 'amulet of flying'."
Contestant: "No, you are wrong! Look in the DMG/Core rules! There are all sorts of items in there with names like 'amulet of flying'!"
Result: Contestant submits cool item with lame name, it fails to make top 32.We have a thread about this every year. People confuse "its in the game" with "its Superstar." Those are two different things. The game contains lots of meat and potatoes content that you simply have to have in your game. The judges dont want meat and potatoes, they want superstar. That's not a criticism of the designer that made the boots of elven kind.
The question is NOT "could my item stand beside other wondrous items on the list of current items?"
This contest is NOT "open call for other good wondrous items". This contest is "RPG Freaking Superstar!"
So if you need it explained to you that "dwarven axe" is not a superstar name but the same weapon entitled "axe of the dwarvish lords" may be superstar then perhaps this contest isnt for you. :)
Peace.
Clark
--Neil
How many times does a player have to write Last Leaves of the Autumn Dryad on their character sheet before the name STOPS being cool lol?
My guess is twice.
Maybe once if you can't even fit it on one line of your character sheet.
Impractical names shouldn't be considered superstar either... right?
(Note: I still think it's a cool name.... I'm just bored and I have to stare at this section like 10x a day.... until the 18th)
Here is my post, re-posted:
It really comes down to this: You have the contest judges in here telling you what they think is superstar and not superstar. Feel free to take that advice or disregard it at your peril. :)
Imagine this:
Teacher: "Please turn your writing assignement in on Friday. You are reminded, that to get an A, you must include a cover on your report."
Student: "But I think my report is awesome on its own! You are wrong! The report doesnt need a cover!"
Result: student turns in report without cover, student gets B.
Its the same thing here.
You actually have the people who are evaluating your submissions telling you what you have to have to get an A and you are arguing with the teacher. Bad idea.
Sean: "Please turn in your wondrous item by Friday. To get an A and make top 32, it has to have an awesome name, not a boring name like 'amulet of flying'."
Contestant: "No, you are wrong! Look in the DMG/Core rules! There are all sorts of items in there with names like 'amulet of flying'!"
Result: Contestant submits cool item with lame name, it fails to make top 32.
We have a thread about this every year. People confuse "its in the game" with "its Superstar." Those are two different things. The game contains lots of meat and potatoes content that you simply have to have in your game. The judges dont want meat and potatoes, they want superstar. That's not a criticism of the designer that made the boots of elven kind.
The question is NOT "could my item stand beside other wondrous items on the list of current items?"
This contest is NOT "open call for other good wondrous items". This contest is "RPG Freaking Superstar!"
So if you need it explained to you that "dwarven axe" is not a superstar name but the same weapon entitled "axe of the dwarvish lords" may be superstar then perhaps this contest isnt for you. :)
Peace.
Clark
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How many times does a player have to write Last Leaves of the Autumn Dryad on their character sheet before the name STOPS being cool lol?
My guess is twice.
Maybe once if you can't even fit it on one line of your character sheet.Impractical names shouldn't be considered superstar either... right?
(Note: I still think it's a cool name.... I'm just bored and I have to stare at this section like 10x a day.... until the 18th)
"Last Leaves of the Autumn Dryad" That is a cool name, but just because its long doesn't make it impractical. Isn't a good character sheet full of short-hand anyway? Sure it would never fit on my sheet but "LLAD" would.
Dear Paizo Posters,
What Orcus (or his avatar in the mortal world, Clark Peterson) wrote in invisible ink at the end of his post was 'so yeah, the item has to have a cool name, unless it is sufficiently cool in other respects, in accordance with Sean's Rule #27'.
For the benefit of those of you without the ability to read invisible writing, hoping that this has been helpful.
Yours,
Ask A Succubus.
PS
Unless you really love to gamble though, or just don't care one way or the other if your item gets through, it might be a good idea to keep Orcus' advice sans the invisible ink comment in mind though. He's just looking for an excuse to bust some skulls, and the more stuff he writes that everyone can see, the more excuses he has to bust the skulls of those who ignore it.