No matter how you figure the math, +2 to int gives 1 skill point per level.
7+2=9 which gives 1 point a level more than he had originally.
That point would be in one skill that the headband came with. It would be any skill- but just one skill that the headband was created with and can't be changed.
Each level you gain one skill point in that one skill.
An Ioun stone grants a +2 bonus to Intelligence as an Enhancement bonus. This is the same type of bonus granted by the Headband and as such they overlap. They do not stack. Therefore, wearing both a headband and an Ioun stone gives you the power of the stronger one.
You get +1 to one skill not both- probably using the item you wore first over the one you wore second. I would not let the second one come into effect until you removed the first and wore the second for 24 hours after that, but the rules themselves are silent on it.
-S
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The Int enhancing Ioun stone (in the core book anyway) does not give an additional skill unfortunately.
I haven't seen the rules on slotting that Ioun stone into a wayfinder, so I'm not sure what extra effects are unlocked, but if it read similarly to how the headband grants one skill I would allow them to stack as long as each item was hard coded with a singular skill at creation.
I'm going to be reworking the rules for a home campaign so that Int boosting Ioun stones *do* provide a skill for a particular (and peculiar) NPC that will hopefully become a trusted contact.
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Would a fighter in PFS with a 7 int receive extra bonus skill ranks equal to his level if he wore a headband of int +2 for 24 hours? How about if he stuck a +2 int ioun stone in his wayfinder?
I would say it does not. In the core book (pg 517) the text for headband of mental prowess states "...if the headband grants a bonus to intelligence, it also grants skill ranks...". Since same bonuses do not stack i.e. enhancement, moral, luck, etc. then an enhancement bonus from a headband does not stack with an enhancement bonus from an ioun stone, therefore the skill rank bonus does not trigger.
Note: the same bonus type rule is broken when using the resonant powers (method 2) rule in Seeker of Secrets. I would say the skill bonus would stack in this case as well.
Would a fighter in PFS with a 7 int receive extra bonus skill ranks equal to his level if he wore a headband of int +2 for 24 hours? How about if he stuck a +2 int ioun stone in his wayfinder?
I presume you are asking does a fighter with a 7 int (who would normallya get 1 skill point by sheer minimum) gain the skill from a headband +2, seven though a fighter with 9 int would *also* get just one skill point. The answer (for the headband) is yes - the text does not in any way reference the Int score of the person donning the headband. It even works for animal companions going from 2 to 4 int (assuming headbands are an allowed spot in your game).
It does not work for Ioun stones in any case, as noted by others, because it lacks the specific text. As the standard ioun stone is only +2, it doesn't make that large a difference.
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If you agree with that logic, then a fighter with 7 Intelligence who wears a scarlet and blue sphere ioun stone would gain max ranks in whichever skill the stone was attuned to (determined at the stone's creation), or a random Knowledge skill (if no such determination was made).
As far as PFS goes, it's a determination your GM must make, until such a time as this becomes erratum.
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The granting of the bonus skill ranks by the Headband of Vast Intelligence is a special feature of that item and is not tied to a character's class or intelligence score. Further, the number of ranks the character may have spent in that skill are not relevant. The bonus merely grants ranks equal to the character's HD (or level). If you already have max ranks (equal to HD/level) in that skill, the boon from the item has no affect on the skill modifier.
What I am not confident with is whether or not an Intelligence enhancement item grants bonus skill points/ranks as a result of a higher Intelligence score. In v3.5, this was specifically stated in the item description that it did not grant bonus skill points. However, the language is absent from PFRPG (at least from what I've read to date). IMHO, the same rule does apply and the bonus reflected in the Headband's description is alternate to bonus skill points not granted by the item's enhancement.
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I guess we've just always done it that way. That's how CON works.
I agree with the application for Constitution bonuses to hit points and Fortitude saves. However, in v3.5, an item that enhanced your Intelligence did not provide additional skill points/ranks. That was a specific rule covering Intelligence buffs and was stated in the rules. However, it appears that PFRPG changed that rule. per CRB p.555...
"Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, or other bonuses."The emphasis is mine and shows that PFRPG does not follow the same rule for Intelligence enhancements, with respect to skill points/ranks, as v3.5 did. IMO, this is a better rule. I think that it is clear that it does work retroactively.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The skill increase is indeed retroactive once the Intelligence increase becomes "permanent" (after 24 constant hours of the effect). The same is true for any permanent increase in Intelligence, such as through levelling up.
This was a Pathfinder design decision, allowing people to write up stat blocks for, say, 15th-level NPCs without wondering when they received what stat increase. If your 15th level gnome rogue has an intelligence of 14, then she has (8+2) x 15 skill ranks. (The Paizo design team had had enough of the way D&D 3.5 requires designers to build NPCs from the ground up, one level at a time.)
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Back to the original question... it's been established that the Headband is tied to a single skill and would give skill points regardless and that the Ioun Stone is a "permanent" increase to intelligence. This would mean that in the OPs question, that the fighter would not gain any skill points from a +2 ioun stone, just as he wouldn't gain any from increasing his intelligence by 1 to a score of 8. If he decided to take a level with a class that gets more than 2 skill points per level then the ioun stone and/or intelligence increase would affect his skill points.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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But the party wizard wearing a +2 headband of INT would gain max ranks in TWO skills. One for the headband and one for the permanent increase in INT.-James
Nope. They receive max ranks in one skill (for intelligence) that is hard-wired into the headband.
Look at it this way. If the headband were to give free (+Character level) in any skill the character wanted, then the character could take it off, put it back on, wait a day, and presto, be super-awesome in whatever skill the party needs.
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They receive max ranks in one skill (for intelligence) that is hard-wired into the headband.
Look at it this way. If the headband were to give free (+Character level) in any skill the character wanted, then the character could take it off, put it back on, wait a day, and presto, be super-awesome in whatever skill the party needs.
Correct. You gain max ranks in ONE skill. That IS the skill you gain for the +2 Intelligence increase, only, because the +2 increase isn't really naturally yours, you don't get to pick the skill - it comes hard-wired into the headband. If you had a +4 headband, you'd get 2 hard-wired, maxed skills. If you had a +6 headband, you'd get 3 hard-wired, maxed skills. (If you already happen to have one of those skills, tough; beg your GM to change them.) There are no additional skills granted beside those hard-wired into the headband. As Chris says, this is to prevent someone from turning a +2 headband into a "headband of whatever skill you need it to be depending on the day." This I am 100% sure of.
What I'm 99% sure of is that bonus languages are also hard-wired into the headband, and about 80% sure that bonus spells are NOT hard-wired because higher Intelligence actually only gives you additional slots, which you fill on a daily basis, so there's no reason for those to be hard-wired in.
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On the OP's Int 7 fighter...
A +2 ioun stone should act exactly like a +2 headband in regards to skill points (and languages). It raises your Int. With higher Int comes more skill points. ALL permanent ability increases have retroactive effects. If the "permanent" increase it due to a magic item, it kicks in after 24 hours and lasts until the item is removed, but the effects are still retroactive while the item is worn.
What is not clear is whether those skill points are hard-wired into the stone such that the player cannot chose how to spend them. Using the headband as a model, they would also be hard-wired into the stone. I would suggest that a PFS character should follow this assumption as it is the more conservative reading of the rules. A home GM can do whatever he or she wants. And technically, there's no reason why all the skill points have to go into the same skill. It's just MUCH easier to calculate and keep track of if you say "7 points? They all go into Swim." If one wanted to track 7 different magically bestowed skill points (in case of removal of the item), one could assign them all over the place - 2 in Swim, 1 in Linguistics, 3 in Knowledge (arcana), and 1 in Appraise. But, again, that's in a home game. In PFS, magically-granted skill points are hard-wired into an item.
One last point. In a world (like PFS) where you can buy any magic item you can afford, there's no reason you can't just buy a +2 headband (Swim) or a +2 ioun stone (Appraise). It's not terrible "realistic" to assume that a magic shop has 17 +2 headbands, each keyed to a different skill, but that's the way the purchasing rules work so accept it.
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I see nothing in the language of the headband to indicate that it does not grant both the +2 to Intelligence causing you to gain retroactive skill points associated with your new Intelligence modifier, AND a bonus, equal to your HD, to a specific predetermined skill. In the case of the OP, the fighter would not see a change in assignable skill points since prior to donning the headband, his skill points per level is 1 (2 for class - 2 for Intelligence = 0, minimum over-ride to one per level) and his skill points per level after donning is still 1 (2 for class - 1 for Intelligence = 1). The boon is that he will gain a max-rank skill. The ioun stone has no such language and there is no precedent to indicate that we should apply the same rules to it. It is merely a +2 Intelligence enhancement that would essentially gain the fighter no additional skill points.
What about Bonus Languages?
Those, and "Wizard bonus starting spells" (they start with 3+Int 1st level spells) are not retroactive. Just be happy the maxed out skill *is*.
A very nice DM could let you learn an additional language over time, or have one assigned to the headband, but that's not covered by the rules.
Perhaps the real question is what languages do you learn if the skill attuned to your headband is linguistics.
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What about Bonus Languages?Those, and "Wizard bonus starting spells" (they start with 3+Int 1st level spells) are not retroactive.
Why wouldn't they be? As I read it, the Int bonus granted by magic items is just like a natural Int bonus (after 24 hours and while the item is worn). As I explained in my post above, I think you gain ALL benefits of the higher ability score, including retroactive ones, regardless of the ability score. With Con, that's retroactive HP. With Str, + to hit and damage but not so much retroactively. And with Int, it's retroactive skill points, languages, and spell slots. The item doesn't have to say this explain this explicitly because that's the general rule for stat increases:
From PRD: "Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed."
The only catch is that, according to Pathfinder, when these bonus result from a magic item, they are almost always hard-wired into the item so players get what they get on new skills and languages.
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Why wouldn't they be?
"You apply your character's Intelligence modifier to: The number of bonus languages your character knows at the start of the game." (p. 17, emphasis added)
You gain the Int bump from the item after the start of the game, so you don't have additional languages pop into your head as a result of the language bump.
After the start of the game, you gain languages by putting ranks into Linguistics. You gain one language per rank. If the item adds ranks in Linguistics, you would gain languages for those ranks.
Ranks are still limited by HD.
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Well I for one am pretty sure that you don't get the skill that's hardwired to the headband AND additional retroactive skill points. Just the hardwired max ranks. Oh and thanks for helping me out folks.
Why would you say that? What in the description language leads you to believe that the "hardwired" skill is not an additional bonus on top of the normal bonus associated with a "permanent" ability boost?
the reason for the hardwired skill is so you don't have to go back through your char sheet removing sp. it's a good mechanic to remove something that would be a hassle. same reason why when you get a permanent negative level you just loose 5 Hp.
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What in the description language leads you to believe that the "hardwired" skill is not an additional bonus on top of the normal bonus associated with a "permanent" ability boost?
For those of you who are not yet convinced, here are two new arguments AGAINST the +2 headband granting max ranks in two skills.
#1 PRICE
Belt of Str gives you a +2 stat bonus and no additional skill bonuses - costs 4000 gp. Headband of Charisma gives you a +2 stat bonus and no additional skill bonuses - costs 4000 gp. Some folks are arguing that a Headband of Int gives you a +2 stat bonus AND a bonus skill, and still costs the same 4000 gp. Not very likely.
Pricing magic items is not my strength but the SRD says the cost of a skill bonus item = the bonus squared x 100 gp. Max ranks in a skill depends on the level of the PC, but let's say level 5 is a reasonable point when a PC might end up with a +2 headband. +5 ranks squared = 25, x 100 gp = 2500 gp. That 2500 gp is for the extra skill bonus alone (see Cloak of Elvenkind), and would need to be added on top of the 4000 gp you're already paying for the +2 Int boost and the 1 maxed skill you get with that. By arguing that a +2 headband grants max ranks in 2 skills, you're trying to get a 6500 gp item for 4000 gp. No good.
#2 SIMPLICITY
I hate to pull the old-coot "I was there" card, but back in the days of the Alpha and the Beta tests, one of the main design goals in creating a new skill-point system was to make it simpler to create high-level NPCs. The old 3.5 "skill points x4" system made it really hard to create NPCs because you had to know what class they took 1st. A rogue 4/wizard 3 had a different number of skill points than a wizard 3/rogue 4. The new "class skills as +3" was one way of addressing that. Another was by making the effects of bonuses granted by stat changes retroactive. It no longer mattered if an NPC's Con hit 16 at 1st level, 4th, or 12th; she got the benefits of that Con all the way back to 1st, regardless. Same with Int. Even if your NPC wizard just got to an 18 Int at 8th level, she had the same skill points as a wizard who'd started with an 18 Int because the benefits of stat increases were retroactive.
Now carry this principal forward to stat boosting magic items. They don't grant some of the benefits of a stat increase, they grant all the benefits of a stat increase. A natural 16 is the same as a natural 14 with a +2 headband for an augmented total of 16. After 24 hours, a stat bonus grants ALL benefits. If I remember correctly, this was a pretty big change from 3.5, especially regarding Int, but it made it easier to create high-level NPCs.
But to assume that a Headband of Intelligence grants the normal skill bonus associated with a stat bump PLUS another one just for good measure blows the principal of stat boosting items granting the same bonus as natural stats, nothing less, but nothing more either.
IN CONCLUSION...
One could certainly make a nice little magic item that grants max ranks in a skill. It would scale nicely with PC levels but might be tough to price. But the Headband of Vast Intellect is not that item. The Headband grants a +2/+4/+6 bonus to Int. That will give you enough retroactive skill points to max out 1, 2, or 3 skills. For simplicity sake and to avoid abuse, the rules say that those maxed skill are hard-wired into the headband. It grants you what a natural stat increase would grant you. Nothing less, but nothing more either.
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Why wouldn't they be?"You apply your character's Intelligence modifier to: The number of bonus languages your character knows at the start of the game." (p. 17, emphasis added).
Wow. I never noticed that before. I've always played (as a GM and as a character) that you gain new languages if your Int increases. Huh.
I'd still argue that gaining new languages as you gain Int later in the game is more consistent with the over-all game design philosophy of stat increases granting retroactive benefits (see my SIMPLICITY argument above). To create a 12th-level wizard, I shouldn't need to know at which level he achieved his Int 20 so I can figure out how many languages to assign; I should be able to just say "Int 20, +5, 5 languages."
But I've got to admit that that is a total RAI argument and is not specifically stated in the RAW. Thanks for pointing that out.