I am making a Summoner character at level 7 and need to get my UMD at a reasonably high level to use wands and the like.
He's a guy that has been adventuring solo for a while and in the game system to do that effectively needs some clerical abilities and wizard abilities a summoner doesn't have.
We are playing through the Serpent Skull AP
Quiterjon wrote: I am making a Summoner character at level 7 and need to get my UMD at a reasonably high level to use wands and the like.
He's a guy that has been adventuring solo for a while and in the game system to do that effectively needs some clerical abilities and wizard abilities a summoner doesn't have.
We are playing through the Serpent Skull AP
To make sure, you're saying that is background is playing solo but that you are going to be joining a group now for the AP, right?
Might I suggest the following build for your consideration (assuming that you are using a 20pt buy and can use Paizo materials):
Halfling Summoner
STR 05 (7-2racial)
INT 14
WIS 07
DEX 16 (14+2racial)
CON 14
CHA 22 (17+2racial+1bump+2Item)
Feats: Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning, Skill Focus: Stealth, Hellcat stealth (Cheliax source book).
Traits: Making Diplomacy & Stealth class skills (adjust skills accordingly if altering this)
Skills: Stealth +23 (7 ranks +3class +1trait +3DEX +3feat +4size +2racial), UMD +19 (7 ranks +3class +6CHA +3item), Handle animal +13 (1 rank +3 class +6CHA +3item), Fly +11 (1 rank +3 class +3DEX +4size), Bluff +10 (1 rank, +6CHA +3item), Linguistics +9 (4 ranks +3 class +2INT), Diplomacy +20 (7ranks +3 class +1trait +6CHA +3 item)
Items: +2 headband of CHA (4000gp), circlet of persuasion (4500gp), +2 cloak of resistance (4000gp), +2 belt of STR (4k, for eidolon), Vest of resistance +1 (1k if allowed, have one of the resistance items on the eidolon), boots of stealth +5 (2.5k also if allowed, but not factored into skills above) 3.5k on consumables.
That should be a reasonable build for you if you are interested. You'll need to pick spells:
Per day 6 5 2. Known: 6 5 4 2
-James
Sorry I would never play a character with such low stats in str and wis.
The question was how can I increase my UMD skill.
It gives you a guide for making your own magic equpment.
As long as it takes a slot, a item that increases your UMD +5 should cost 2500.
Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Quiterjon wrote: Sorry I would never play a character with such low stats in str and wis.
The question was how can I increase my UMD skill.
Other than just putting ranks into it and having a high CHA, you can take the skill focus feat. Another option is to use Aspect to give yourself a +8 bonus to UMD at 10th level by taking the Skilled evolution. The advantage with this is that you can move the evolution point into something else when you have enough UMD ranks that you don't need the bonus anymore (as opposed to skill focus, which is perminant).
Quiterjon wrote: Sorry I would never play a character with such low stats in str and wis.
The question was how can I increase my UMD skill.
Well then don't play him then, but he does have a +19 UMD. In general this should be the exact bonus that you want to be at as the DC for completion devices (such as wands) is 20. If you want to be reading scrolls then you'll need higher as well as the relevant stat.
So see how I did it and go from there.
Personally I don't see the problem with a caster having a low str, and honestly a low wis can be fun to play. But if its not for you then don't do it. Easy.
Also you didn't post a character, so I didn't know you had any preferences/prejudices. You only stated that you wanted a build that would make sense having played solo. I figured a stealth based build would be reasonable for that.
-James
Put a rank it UMD at every level
Max you CHA to whatever level you feel comfortable
Either Skill Focus or Magical Aptitude; I prefer Magical Aptitude since Spellcraft is also useful to you.
Get the highest headband of CHA you can afford.
That gets you to +17-19 with a 18 CHA, if you wanted to boost it to +20 you could take both Skill Focus and Magical Aptitude (but I think it's overkill).
There is also a trait that bumps UMD by +1 but I don't think it's worth it unless your character doesn't have UMD as a class skill (and summoner has it already).
0gre wrote: Put a rank it UMD at every level
Max you CHA to whatever level you feel comfortable
Either Skill Focus or Magical Aptitude; I prefer Magical Aptitude since Spellcraft is also useful to you.
Get the highest headband of CHA you can afford.
Rather than spending the feat, I would spend 4500gp on a circlet of persuasion.
-James
So
full ranks in UMD, Circlet of Persuasion, 20Cha(Headband of Charisma), Gloves of UMD
7(10)UMD
3 CoP
5 Cha
3 Skill Focus
2 Magical Aptitude
5 "Gloves" of UMD
That would be a 28?
Wait CoP and Gloves of UMD are both competence bonuses so they wouldn't stack? I could still have both but the bonus would only be 25? I'm trying to get it higher because our divine caster is a bit, no, very stingy with his spells. My Int and Wis aren't the greatest so I have to emulate ability scores, well I want to I should say.
james maissen wrote: 0gre wrote: Put a rank it UMD at every level
Max you CHA to whatever level you feel comfortable
Either Skill Focus or Magical Aptitude; I prefer Magical Aptitude since Spellcraft is also useful to you.
Get the highest headband of CHA you can afford.
Rather than spending the feat, I would spend 4500gp on a circlet of persuasion. This is a good suggestion.
Quiterjon wrote: I could still have both but the bonus would only be 25? I'm trying to get it higher because our divine caster is a bit, no, very stingy with his spells. My Int and Wis aren't the greatest so I have to emulate ability scores, well I want to I should say. What do you need to emulate ability scores for?
And if you already have a character mostly drawn up, why not post him here and we can help you polish it a bit?
-James
Because my int and wis are not high enough to cast anything but low level spells(0,1,2 for int and o for wis)or better known as a 12int and 10wis
I don't want 45 opinions on how 45 others would make my character. Which is why I posted a specific question about the character.
Charisma based casters Bard, Oracle, Summoner, Sorcerer. That's about 90% of the spells in the game.
I think there are some inquisitor spells, and maybe some ranger spells you have to emulate ability scores with.
Where are the Gloves of UMD from?
Quiterjon wrote: Because my int and wis are not high enough to cast anything but low level spells(0,1,2 for int and o for wis)or better known as a 12int and 10wis
What spells do you really need a higher INT or WIS for? You have CHA which is the casting stat for Oracles, Bards, Paladins and Sorcerers. That should cover many, many scrolls.
Likewise you won't need a stat at all for wands.
So are you worried about a scroll of some druid or ranger-only spells?
-James
0gre wrote: Charisma based casters Bard, Oracle, Summoner, Sorcerer. That's about 90% of the spells in the game.
I think there are some inquisitor spells, and maybe some ranger spells you have to emulate ability scores with.
Where are the Gloves of UMD from?
In the guide it gives you options to make your own magic equpment. It gives cost for an magic item that gives a skill bonus as long as it a slot.
It should cost 2500 to buy a +5 umd.
im sure u could hire an NPC wizard to make it for you.
Not every scroll I come across will be made by sorc or oracles. The 'old school' classes scrolls are cheaper to buy, better safe than sorry, activating devises in game(so far in Serpent Skull AP there have been two)
If its on the wizard/sor spell list, u can cast it ether as a wizard or a sor for umd
Quiterjon wrote: Not every scroll I come across will be made by sorc or oracles. The 'old school' classes scrolls are cheaper to buy, better safe than sorry, activating devises in game(so far in Serpent Skull AP there have been two) Name three that you really want to be able to cast via scroll.
-James
james maissen wrote: Quiterjon wrote: Not every scroll I come across will be made by sorc or oracles. The 'old school' classes scrolls are cheaper to buy, better safe than sorry, activating devises in game(so far in Serpent Skull AP there have been two) Name three that you really want to be able to cast via scroll.
-James Any divine spell higher than level 1?
Like I said.
The rules state "The user must have the requisite ability score." "To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells)." How the Dm interprets that is up to him. Personally why have scrolls made by sorcs and bards cost more? Why have a distinction between wizard and sorc spell? I see no reason for it. Kinda hard for a Sorc to stay in business when the wizard two stores down sells the exact same scroll for less.
So again better safe than sorry
The highest ability score you'd need to emulate is 19 for 9th level spells, so you'd need a UMD of 1+X-15>=19, or 33. But that's a long ways off. At level 7 I'd say you'd want to autocast 4th level spells, so you should be aiming for UMD bonus at +28.
As for why sorc/bard scrolls cost more, its because they have to be at a higher CL. The minimum CL at which they get the spells is later (higher level) than Wizards. That said, it can be beneficial to have higher CL scrolls.
As an aside, I am playing a Summoner but opted for my Eidolon to have UMD, not me. He has a UMD of +18 at level 4, which is pretty fun. :)
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Quiterjon wrote: So
full ranks in UMD, Circlet of Persuasion, 20Cha(Headband of Charisma), Gloves of UMD
Circlet and Headband occupy the same slot. You can't use them both.
Quiterjon wrote:
The rules state "The user must have the requisite ability score."
You have CHA which will work for emulating any spell on the wizard/sorcerer spell list as a sorcerer, any spell on the cleric/oracle spell list as an oracle, any spell on the bard spell list as a bard, and any spell on the paladin spell list as a paladin.
To your concern that there is somehow a distinction between 'sorcerer arcane scrolls and wizard arcane scrolls' there is no such distinction.
In fact a bard can read an arcane scroll of charm monster regardless on whether it was written by a wizard, sorcerer, bard, or even summoner. The only distinction that matters for scrolls is arcane/divine.
So you should be fine without needing to emulate a high WIS score unless there are druid or ranger spells that you need to read off of scrolls that aren't on other spell lists.
A sorcerer can read a 5th level arcane scroll of fireball without needing to use UMD at all. In fact at 5th level the sorcerer can do this without failure despite not being able to cast 3rd level spells directly. This would not be the case if your concerns were valid.
The reason for the table to have different values for sorcerer/bard created scrolls (et al) is the minimum level that they can create such at is higher than the minimum level for a wizard to create similar level spells (e.g. a wizard gets 3rd level spells at 5th level but a sorcerer doesn't until 6th).
-James
LazarX wrote: Quiterjon wrote: So
full ranks in UMD, Circlet of Persuasion, 20Cha(Headband of Charisma), Gloves of UMD
Circlet and Headband occupy the same slot. You can't use them both. I thought that one was head (the circlet) and one was headband (headband)?
In PF they are different slots,
James
james maissen wrote: I thought that one was head (the circlet) and one was headband (headband)? Which is completely bizarre IMO. When I read that I just shake my head.
Only thing I can figure is they wanted to open the head slot up for other interesting items.
0gre wrote: james maissen wrote: I thought that one was head (the circlet) and one was headband (headband)? Which is completely bizarre IMO. When I read that I just shake my head.
Only thing I can figure is they wanted to open the head slot up for other interesting items. Yeah, it feels more of an add-on to an existing system than a real fix.
Likely letting stat items be essentially slotless would be, imho, the real way to go here. But perhaps that's hard to write coherently in a rule book.
-James
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
james maissen wrote: LazarX wrote: Quiterjon wrote: So
full ranks in UMD, Circlet of Persuasion, 20Cha(Headband of Charisma), Gloves of UMD
Circlet and Headband occupy the same slot. You can't use them both. I thought that one was head (the circlet) and one was headband (headband)?
In PF they are different slots,
James
Head slots are items like goggles and helms which used to be tied to the same slot as circlets, however the circlet and the headband are both headband items, so they are still using the same slot.
Circlet is listed as "Head" slot, headbands are listed as "Headband" slot.
Another way to go about it is to take skilled for your eidolon and have the eidolon have the huge score in UMD.
You can use lesser evolution surge to give your eidolon skilled in any skill you happen to need at the time as well. Well, by the RAW. Your GM may have a fit.
I have a summoner for solo play and I took a morphic savant. That gives you 3 slightly weaker eidolons you can choose between each day. More options.
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