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Mirrored Lantern of the Pious Seeker


Round 1 - Open Call: Create a Wondrous Item

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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8 aka Tolroy

Mirrored Lantern of the Pious Seeker
Aura moderate evocation and necromancy(good); CL 5th
Slot -; Price 30,000 gp; Weight 3 lbs.

Description
This silver lantern boasts a multitude of mirrors throughout its interior. The interior of the lantern can house a holy symbol of a good or neutral deity. When a channeler of positive energy wields a lantern housing the holy symbol of his deity, the lantern will function and shed bright light in a 30-foot radius. This light functions as per the daylight spell.
As a move action, the wielder may change the area of the light to any of the following: a 60 foot cone, a 120 foot line, or a 5-foot radius sphere located within 400 feet of the wielder.
Any undead within the light suffer a -2 penalty to Will saves against channel energy. Three times per day, the wielder may channel positive energy through the functioning lantern, changing the area of the channeling to match the current area of the light effect. A wielder with the Glory domain may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Wisdom modifier.

Construction
Requirement Craft Wondrous Item, creator must be a 5th level cleric; Cost 15,000 gp

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

Wow. Awesome idea. Innovative, too...or at least I haven't seen this idea come up yet. Reshaping the zone of channeled energy is cool. I am left wondering if the item is only used in that way when you channel energy to damage undead...or if it also applies to healing versions of positive energy channeling. Either could be useful, but the item is unclear in that respect.

I'm a little disappointed that there aren't any spells in the construction requirements (daylight ought to be there at a minimum and maybe something like mass cure light wounds). And, I think it ought to be open to anyone who can channel positive energy so you can include paladins and oracles.

That said, I like the idea.
The mechanics are mostly okay.
The presentation is decent, though I don't agree with all the choices.

Inclined to Keep.

Contributor

Idea of the item is pretty cool.

I agree with Neil that it failed to list appropriate requirements.

Items shouldn't determine their uses per day on the wielder's ability score. Doing so means it's even better in the hands of someone with a great ability score (and they already have it better in life than the character with a lower score). It also makes it hard to price the item accurately.

Keep.

CEO, Goblinworks

Keep

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

In circling back to look at this one again, I really like the core idea. I think it's innovative enough to trump some of the smaller quibbles I might have with it. And I like it better than several other items in the Keep folder. Right now, I think this one might be destined for the Top 32 based on the idea alone. And I'd really like to see what this designer can come up with in future rounds of the competition. This is the kind of innovation I'd like to see encouraged...even if I have to "golden ticket" it.

Paizo Employee Developer

I agree that this one's both flavorful and well-written. I think it has some mechanical issues, mostly relating to price (as Sean said) and the lack of any spells (as Neil said). I also think there should be an alignment restriction in the crafting, since it seemingly only functions for good or neutral clerics).

Weak keep.

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

And so it is...

However, for the designer who crafted this item, I'd recommend you keep bringing the awesome ideas, but work on your attention to detail and tightening down all the mechanical considerations of the choices you make in your designs. This is a golden opportunity and everyone's going to be watching to see how you grow over the course of the contest. Be cognizant of that. And embrace it to show what you're capable of. Best of luck.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16, 2010 Top 4

I thought this was a neat little item as I read about the holy symbol providing light. Slightly interesting that the shape of the light could be manipulated by adjusting the mirrors. And very not bad when I saw that a cleric could channel energy through it. I want one for my Kingmaker character right now.

Doubling the penalty to undead's Will saves for users who have the Glory domain or adding 1- or 2d6 to the dice of the channeled energy might be a good fix for that, while daylight and one of the channeling feats should be a must for the requirements.

With more word space, this could (should?) be expanded to offer different functions for negative energy channelers rather than making an entirely different item.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

A shapeable daylight lantern. Good concept, I like that I can hit undead at long range with it, or use it as an alternative to the Selective Channeling feat. The cost is about right, a continuous daylight is useful by itself, even without the channeling, and especially if it is shapeable. The requirements should probably say creator must be able to channel positive energy, rather than have to be a cleric. Nitpick: ‘necromancy (good)’, there is a space in between the ‘y’ and the bracket.

Welcome to the ranks of RPG Superstar! Like Neil says, keep bringing the awesome ideas, and lock down the little quibbles us judges like to look for. :-) Give us nothing we can even slightly ding you on. Best of luck!

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Lanterns are notoriously difficult to pull off; or at least they were the first year. So congratulations on that!

Alexander MacLeod wrote:
Doubling the penalty to undead's Will saves for users who have the Glory domain or adding 1- or 2d6 to the dice of the channeled energy might be a good fix for that, while daylight and one of the channeling feats should be a must for the requirements.

Agreed. If not a channeling feat, then at least the ability to channel. On the other hand, Selective Channel feels right, and it’s not like that isn't a fairly common feat anyway, so taking it is hardly a hardship. Not having a spell requirement was a no, no. Fortunately the item’s mojo carries it.

This item is using Pathfinder mechanics in a new way.

Great idea, now channel your energy into locking down your mechanics!

Qadira RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 aka Sect

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Keep

Straight to the point, and effective. I like it.

I really like this item's core ideas, it being a shapeable light source that weakens the undead. I especially like it emitting the light from the holy symbol inside the lantern. The biggest issue I have with it is the price: it seems a bit pricey for what it does. The crafting requirements are also a bit wonky, but I can deal with that.

This is an item that I'd love to introduce to a campaign: a comforting light from your deity in the darkness of evil. Can't wait to see what else you do.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 , Star Voter 2013

Interesting concept. Using channel to fuel a spell effect is a good idea, and effectively burning two attempts (one to get daylight going, one to then channel into the shape the lantern is emitting. The idea of using the lantern to make a ‘channel ball’ at up to 400 feet is interesting from a tactical POV as well.
It’s missing the spell requirements and likely should have the creator able to channel positive energy


I agree with most of what has been said thus far. This is one of the more innovative items I have seen. I love the idea behind the shaping mechanics, especially using it as a longer range beam attack against undead!

A tightening up on the requirements will only help you in the coming rounds, I am looking forward to see what else you have to offer. Great work!


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I like this and its ability to do something with channel.

I think the "loads of different ways to reshape" is a bit fiddly, especially the random 5' sphere 400' away... I'd just go with the cone as that fits the lantern flavor better. And the Glory domain bit is too fiddly too. Strip both those out (and maybe drop the price a little) and it rocks on ice.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

Does the modification to channeling positive energy really need to have limited uses per day? It's already limited by how often you can channel energy, and its effects aren't strictly better than the normal 30-foot radius, so I would be inclined to let someone use it as often as they want.

I personally like the line option, but if the cone option was all that was there (as Ernest suggested) that would also be good.

Does the lantern-with-holy-symbol still serve as a substitute for an actual holy symbol, in the even that you want to cast a spell or channel energy normally?

This is a very good idea with a very stylish execution. Waving a holy lantern around at undead is just plain cooler than waving a holy symbol around at them, IMO (I like to think that it casts your holy symbol's shape around like the Bat Signal), and getting a constant daylight just for being a positive channeler rocks. Many of my favorite items are the ones where you make your item awesome (rather than the other way around).


I like the idea quite a bit. I'd think that divine magic items would be in grand supply, as the deities of Golarion are very involved sorts.

The only thing that seems... maybe off?... about this item is the ability to just plop a sphere of light anywhere within 400'. The cone and line are great, and a sphere centered on the lantern, yes, but... the sphere anywhere within 400' kinda goes a little far afield for me personally.

That said, dude, I like it! Adding versatility to old standby powers is what makes a PFRPG Cleric a writer's masterstroke in my mind, and this is another implement in that process. Great work!

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 , Star Voter 2013

It's pretty interesting. I, too, submitted a channeling powered item.

I like being able to shape your channeling effect. That's a nice touch.

I think I ran into a similar problem as you did- how do you price something like this? Since it's being powered by a limited-use ability, my inclination would be to go less expensive. There isn't much guidance for an item like this yet, I don't think.

Well done and congrats on joining the RPG Superstar Class of 2011!


Now this is a really interesting item. Very innovative. This is the first item I've looked at in depth and can already see why I failed to make it into the top 32. You managed to create a wondrous item that adds some extra versatility to an ability. The best part, at least for me, is that it's simplicity - a lantern with "a multitude of mirrors thoughout it's interior" enhances the coolness. This is definately an item I am going to introduce into my games.

I'm not sure I completely agree with Neil's perspective that[i]mass cure light wounds[i/] should be part of the construction requirements, particularly since the lantern is meant to add someversatility to the Channeling ability. I do agree that it would be much cooler being open for use with anyone that has the channeling ability.

I don't necessarily agree with Sean about the ability score dependency being an issue. Mainly due to the heavy Star Wars d20 Saga system games I've been playing for the last 2 years. That system has several feats and talents that are "1 + ability modifier" based uses per day.

Andoran RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8 aka AWizardInDallas

These are my comments before reading the comments of the judges or others:

The item name seems a bit over the top. Why is necromancy part of the aura? The core concept is of definite interest but the item seems to have too many options or they're just a touch confusing. Having a holy symbol inside the lantern seems like an unnecessary requirement; just allow the cleric to channel through the lantern and skip requiring a material component since this is a magic item and already requires channel energy for activation.

Use the daylight spell verbatim, for simplicity sake, instead of cutting the bright light radius in half or just make it operate as a normal hooded lantern until the cleric uses one of its more active functions. Giving a cleric a free light source just for being able to channel energy wouldn't be too big a deal. The 400 feet range option seems really, really far for just a tiny 5-foot circle of light (the cleric would have to see at longbow ranges, probably in darkness).

Also, since the cleric is limited to a number of channelings per day, let that stand as its number of uses or allow it to shine only without active channeling for a number of rounds (3 + Wisdom modifier of the activating cleric sounds good). This would allow multiple clerics to use it. The lantern should consecrate the area instead; a minor Will save penalty seems like a somewhat weak benefit, IMHO. The craft requirements should include the daylight spell, since this is the core spell the lantern is based on. The pricing/costing seems a little high for a relatively minor benefit. (Unfortunately, having the lantern consecrate drags it toward spell-in-a-can territory). How many times per day can a cleric without the Glory domain use channel energy through the lantern?

The core concept really shines and I like this item; the 60 foot cone seems like the most useful option though. This would make a great standard light source in a recurring temple setting. Any cleric walking down the hall could just activate it when the zombies come looking for pie. I see no reason to limit it to only good and neutral alignments though. An evil version (darkness/desecrate) could be just as useful. :)

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8 aka Tolroy

Thank you judges for this chance. I promise not to hand my Everlasting Gobstopper to Slugworth, and I will try not to drink the fizzies.

I would love to thank everyone who is commenting and critiquing my submitted item. I'll promise to come back and start talking about it after I get a firm foundation started on Round 2 and beyond.


Congrats on making the top 32.

i like the idea quite a bit. In fact it does something I too have been missing in the game so far. Most clerics I know would love such an item simply because it gives them interesting additional tactical possibilities and alleviates the need for Selective channeling.

I think you executed the idea well and tying it to a lantern was a great move that helped tightening the theme.

I really look forward to what you come up with in round 2.

Consider yourself to be on my personal watchlist.


I see this as a GREAT idea with OK mechanics, but the idea is so good you can change the mechanics if need. Simple, interesting and different.

Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Congratulations on being a superstar!

This is a very cool idea.

I found the mechanics needed some tightening up, this part in particular.

"located within 400 feet of the wielder".

I am assuming line of sight is required and you cant for example put the ball of light a room behind a closed door.

Everyone has mentioned pretty much the requirements missing the daylight spell. I did also wonder if the creator should be a good or neutral aligned cleric as well as being 5th level.

I also wondered if a neutral cleric who follows a evil deity can create them.

And finally, I wondered if some requirement on size of holy symbol should have been quoted, as I do wonder if all holy symbols would actually fit in a hand held lantern.

Scoring:

Note to all participants: The final score is a factor into who I vote for, but so is how much I like an item (my personal preferences and tastes). So dont assume I am voting for my highest scoring items only.

Name: 9/10
Wasnt sure about Pious as referring to Good/Neutrality, but still liked the name a lot.

Description: 8/10
I found the last paragraph sentence structure was for me a little clunky/awkward. I think maybe a paragraph break between the undead penalty and the uses per day would be better.

Construction: 6/10
Missing the spell hurt you here. And you lost a point from me for not having the creator needing to be similarly alignment restricted as the item.

Final score: 23/30 - very nice.

A very good entry, I hope the feedback is useful.

Andoran RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 aka Bats Kabber

Very cool item. Most everyone above has already addressed any concerns I saw so let me just say I love the idea. Very cool and extremely useful. I want one. :)


I like the item, just not the name of the item. The name of the item should be shortened.

Andoran

Others have touched on the mechanical aspects of the entry, and I can't really add anything there that hasn't been said.

In terms of idea, this is a home run. I also submitted a lantern, but this is absolutely better than mine. I think the concept behind the item pushed it straight past any mechanical concerns, and rightly so (in this case).

As Azmahel said, I also have you on my personal watch list. I haven't read all the items yet, but I have a hard time thinking this won't end up in my top 5. Well done.


Artus Nemati wrote:

Mirrored Lantern of the Pious Seeker

Interesting concept. Basically lets you shape the blast of a channel energy. About the only bad thing I can say for it is that it's another perk for a cleric in a game where clerics are near the top of the power curve.

This is an item that my players would want and that I as a GM would give to a Good-aligned antagonist when my players are running evil PCs.


I'll tend to agree with some of the judges' opinions. This is a good concept that needs an editor. As an overview, while reading it the first time, I thought to myself "Wow, this is complicated and long-winded for such a short word count."

The idea of a shaped channeling item is quite interesting and using the standard lantern shapes adds flavor. Even its use as a daylight lantern is quite interesting. However, the list of powers is too long and a bit disconnected.

First, the -2 penalty for undead against channeling is out of place. At a minimum this should be rewritten to say "Three times per day, the wielder may channel positive energy through the lantern, changing the area of the channeling to match the current area of the light effect. Undead suffer a -2 penalty to Will saves against this channel energy." Doesn't make it sound like the -2 is always on even for other clerics (is it?)

Second, the 5' radius out to 400ft is just odd. Make it "line of sight to a single target" and be done with it.

Third, giving a boost to a single domain is strange in general but why is it Glory? Why not Good, or Fire, or SUN for heaven's sake... I would just drop this power entirely. As has been stated in previous discussions, allowing an item to use an attribute to increase its power is nonstandard and can cause balance issues. Even leaving it alone, shouldn't the creator then be required to be able to channel positive energy at a minimum and possibly even be a cleric with the Glory domain?

Nitpicky details: Why can't I channel negative energy in the same way, other than the fact that it is "Pious" in the name? Even that is just a defacto use of the word. It simply means devoted to religion.

Osirion RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4

I like this item. There isn't enough magic lanterns, which is odd because you can find a hunderd minitures and art pieces with characters holding them.

I can see the power level of this item changing as more and more channel positive/negative energy feat come out, like in the new magic book set to release soon.

Andoran Dedicated Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I like the re-shaping effect! Now I don't have my APG available, but the core rules don't have any area shape-changing meta-magic feats, unlike 3.5 did. By memory, I'm thinking the APG did not add any are shape-changing meta-magic feats. But perhaps the inclusion of Empower Spell and Widen Spell as requirements (and then price a cure light wounds on those two feats) would have been more appropriate?

In either case, I do really like the idea and flavor of it!


Artus Nemati wrote:

Mirrored Lantern of the Pious Seeker

I liked this one. It's simple but effective. Very useful.

Too bad theirs not an "evil" version of this. I would like to have seen that played out too.

A question, can this item function once set down, or does it have to be held? It's clear that it has to be wielded to use the Channel ability, but what about the day light function.

I'm confused about the # of times per day. Why do those with the Glory domain get to use it more? They don't get Channel Energy more. It just seems odd to me. Also, if it is attribute based; don't the rules say that the item's attribute based abilities are set at the lowest attribute score required to cast that level spell? In this case that would have been 13th. Thus the # times per day should have been set to 4.

I also agree that "Daylight" should have been in the construction process. In fact, it probably should have also required the Metamagic Feat "Widen Spell." This would have changed the spell to 6th level, changing the minimum level to 11th. That would also have changed the cost to at least 44,000 (22,000 to create). (changes min Att. to 16th, and # times per day to 6 for those with the Glory domain).

Good work and congratulations!

Ken

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

I think it's great. It's evocative and mechanically interesting, although I would have a few questions and tweaks along the way, most of which are covered above.

Grand Lodge

First of all, congratulations! I like the shaping of the channel quite a bit. Most of my criticisms have been noted by others but I wanted to chime in that I liked the shaping.

I am sure that negative energy clerics are salivating at the opportunity create the evil twin of this one and have it generate Darkness (or something similar) so they can drop a channel bombs in a line or single target within 400' versus having to get closer.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka John Benbo

My PCs could really use this in my current campaign. Especially if the group cleric remembers he's a cleric and not an archer! Congrats!

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8 aka The Leaping Gnome

I really like this item. Aside from a few mechanical issues, this is pretty awesome. There aren't many items that work with channel energy and this adds some great versatility to clerics. Also, Pathfinder needs more magic lanterns (my go to miniature has a lantern, though I've never used one).

Would this item still work if you cast animate lantern on it from the APG? I doubt it but I'm curious.

Well done, this might be one of my favorite items this year. See you round two.


This is a cool item. I think the name, description, and function all work well together.

It seems odd that the daylight spell is not in the construction requirements.

Contributor

Mechanical issues perhaps, but it's an interesting spin on the channeling ability.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6, Contributor , Dedicated Voter 2013

I like this one too. I agree with reducing it to cone and radius only. Nice way to amplify channel energy. I'd like to see the evil version.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 aka Mistah J

Congratulations on making the Top 32!

I really like the concept and flavour behind your item. The core idea of reshaping channel areas is a really good one. I agree with others though that the wording of the mechanics got a little tangled.

That's ok though, because anyone on these boards will tell you: you can teach a person to be better at the mechanics, it's the inspiration and creativity that's the hard part.

It's a great item! Good job.

Shadow Lodge

I like the concept of this item, but it just seems a bit too fiddly with me. I think there's an elegance in simplicity that could make this lantern really shine... Ouch, bad pun.


Very nice. With some of the mods already mentioned, I'd certainly bring it into my campaign. Congrats on making the grade, and best of luck in the next round!


I wanted to say something unique, but Neil read my mind. Congrats. I will be looking forward to your Archtype.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Very cool item, I especially like your description of it. I'm a sucker for crazy optical systems. I can defiantly see this getting use in my gaming group, though the 400ft ball seems kind of awkward to me.

The crafting requirements really should include daylight though, and anyone who can channel energy should be able to use/make it.

Congrats on making the top 32, and good luck in the next round!

Andoran RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 , Star Voter 2013

I like magic lanterns. I like smashing undead. I like the vivid imagery of placing a holy symbol in this lantern and beaming holy power out over the undead. I like this item.

Osirion RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4 , Star Voter 2013 aka raidou

Artus, welcome to the competition! Like a lot of the posters here I'm pleased with your core idea and the design decisions that led you down this road. The theme of this item is really tight and it makes a lot of sense that these would exist in the game world. It's one of those things that you can drop into the game and it fits right in as if it's been there all along.

As already mentioned, its construction is a little off. So just be aware of this going into next round and take some extra time vetting your archetype submission for really solid mechanics. You've got some good innovative stuff here and I think you can do very well in this contest. best of luck going into the next rounds!

Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

Congratulations Artus!
Strength (Overall): 17
Dexterity (see time in my campaign): 16
Constitution (long-time keeper): 16
Intelligence (mechanics): 15
Wisdom (writing craft): 16
Charisma (flavor/visuals): 17
I like the channeling aspect of a magic item. And that user can strategize with shape and range. And that it works better or a specific domain. And, and, and. The more I read the better it got. yet it never went into SAK territory for me. I hope that growing expectation is something you put into your other entries.
My apologies for being such a slow reader and not getting you feedback sooner. Again, congratulations! :)


Artus Nemati wrote:

Mirrored Lantern of the Pious Seeker

Aura moderate evocation and necromancy(good); CL 5th
Slot -; Price 30,000 gp; Weight 3 lbs.

Description
This silver lantern boasts a multitude of mirrors throughout its interior. The interior of the lantern can house a holy symbol of a good or neutral deity. When a channeler of positive energy wields a lantern housing the holy symbol of his deity, the lantern will function and shed bright light in a 30-foot radius. This light functions as per the daylight spell.
As a move action, the wielder may change the area of the light to any of the following: a 60 foot cone, a 120 foot line, or a 5-foot radius sphere located within 400 feet of the wielder.
Any undead within the light suffer a -2 penalty to Will saves against channel energy. Three times per day, the wielder may channel positive energy through the functioning lantern, changing the area of the channeling to match the current area of the light effect. A wielder with the Glory domain may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Wisdom modifier.

Construction
Requirement Craft Wondrous Item, creator must be a 5th level cleric; Cost 15,000 gp

Disclaimer:

Ask A RPGSuperstar Succubus is posting from the point of view of a CE aligned succubus – fairness is an adjective applicable to hair coloration, balance is what a couple of mortals on opposite ends of a plank pivoted on a rocky spire above a drop of several hundred feet into a pool of molten basalt frantically try to do, and logic is something which proves anything a demon of adequate status and charm requires it to demonstrate.

Is the item Pretty?
Silver lantern, check. Lots of mirrors, check. Wait: This is supposed to house a holy symbol of a good deity???!? Or of a neutral one, but still...

Does the item help a demonic seductress to keep a paladin house pet?
No.

Is the item otherwise useful?
Not very. Although it's mildly amusing - I suppose - if you have a conga-line of undead neatly arranged in a very long corridor and a cooperative cleric holding one of these lanterns.

Other Comments? (including World Domination potential on the evil laughter scale, where appropriate)
Why does it have to be a holy symbol of a good or neutral deity? Yes, I'm ranting here, but this item would be soooo much better if you could place a symbol of Orcus in it to make it emit pleasantly sinister radiations and to make undead cower and grovel at your feet. As it stands the only deity whose symbol I can think of that it might be worth putting in is that of Calistria, who is a female deity at least on speaking terms with demons.
All that beautiful metalwork and artifice, designed to act as some sort of 'shining the light' propaganda weapon for so many pointless deities...
<shakes head and grumbles>

Gollum Rating:
Fisssh.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013 aka Shadow-Mask

Another reason to consider playing a cleric. :) I love that the holy symbol is an integral component to the item's physical construction as it dovetails nicely with the channel energy mechanics.

I need to roll up a cleric. :)

Congratulations.

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