A simple hang up on the Detect Magic / Spellcraft mechanics.

[GhostSongX4]

So this is my understanding, Pathfinder being the first fantasy RPG I've really attempted to learn the rules of, that you cast Detect Magic and that allows you to then use Spellcraft to identify an object's properties.

If that first part is correct, the second part of my hang up is on the part where it says "Identify the properties of a magic item using detect magic". What is properties? Is it how to use it? Or is it how to build one? Or is it both?

[bigkilla]

When using detect magic to identify magic items it basically lets you know what the object is or does.

So for example you find a +1 flaming longsword. You use spellcraft to identify it and your result is higher than the DC 21 needed to identify it so you will know that it is a +1 flaming longsword.

Determine Properties of Magic Item: Attempting to ascertain the properties of a magic item takes 3 rounds per item to be identified and you must be able to thoroughly examine the object.

Determine Properties of Magic Item: When using detect magic or identify to learn the properties of magic items, you can only attempt to ascertain the properties of an individual item once per day. Additional attempts reveal the same results.

[GhostSongX4]

Alright, but would a Detect Magic spell allow you to understand how you're supposed to use it? Or would that be under spell craft?

Basically what I'm confused by is what "properties" mean. Like under the umbrella of "properties" do you also learn if it has like a verbal command to activate, if it has 35 charges remaining and once a month during the new moon you have to murder a mermaid with it (you know, for example lets say).

I guess when you boil down my question to it's base components it would be; "Does spellcraft allow you to understand how to use the item?"

[bigkilla]

GhostSongX4 wrote:

Alright, but would a Detect Magic spell allow you to understand how you're supposed to use it? Or would that be under spell craft?

Basically what I'm confused by is what "properties" mean. Like under the umbrella of "properties" do you also learn if it has like a verbal command to activate, if it has 35 charges remaining and once a month during the new moon you have to murder a mermaid with it (you know, for example lets say).

I guess when you boil down my question to it's base components it would be; "Does spellcraft allow you to understand how to use the item?"

detect magic just lets you know if it is magic and what types of magic are involved, like abjuration or divination and the aura strengths. Spellcraft lets you learn activation words and how to use it, charges and basically everything needed to use the item.

[Kalyth]

GhostSongX4 wrote:

Alright, but would a Detect Magic spell allow you to understand how you're supposed to use it? Or would that be under spell craft?

Basically what I'm confused by is what "properties" mean. Like under the umbrella of "properties" do you also learn if it has like a verbal command to activate, if it has 35 charges remaining and once a month during the new moon you have to murder a mermaid with it (you know, for example lets say).

I guess when you boil down my question to it's base components it would be; "Does spellcraft allow you to understand how to use the item?"

I would say it would let you know basic functions. The command word for a wand, for example. Something like "It has to be used to slay a mermaid once a month" would require far more than a spellcraft check in my book. Maybe a Knowledge arcana check to have heard of the item's history before or spells like Legend Lore.

[MrTim]

So to engage in a little bit of thread necromancy, has anyone ever come out with an official description of what constitutes "properties" for purposes of the Spellcraft check to identify the properties of a magic item? It's infuriatingly vague as written.

[Heaven's Agent]

MrTim wrote:

So to engage in a little bit of thread necromancy, has anyone ever come out with an official description of what constitutes "properties" for purposes of the Spellcraft check to identify the properties of a magic item? It's infuriatingly vague as written.

I imagine its written vaguely on purpose. It's something that can and should be modified on an individual GM based on the type of game he or she played. Some GMs will reveal everything on a successful check. Some will only reveal it function and physical characteristics, but require PCs to discover things like activation words separately (perhaps as part of another adventure).

In other words, when something like this is somewhat vague each GM is supposed to interpret it as they feel works best for their game.

[ZomB]

PFSRD says: "The spells detect magic, identify, and analyze dweomer all reveal command words if the properties of the item are successfully identified."

That is helpfully mentioned in the Command Word section where it mentions how you can also use knowledge history or arcana DC30 to identify command words.

Unfortunately when they reworked the 3.5 Identify spell and just gave a bonus to spellcraft they didn't copy the phrase from the 3.5 spell into spellcraft: "The spell determines all magic properties of a single magic item, including how to activate those functions (if appropriate), and how many charges are left (if any). "

[mage4fun]

ZomB wrote:

PFSRD says: "The spells detect magic, identify, and analyze dweomer all reveal command words if the properties of the item are successfully identified."

That is helpfully mentioned in the Command Word section where it mentions how you can also use knowledge history or arcana DC30 to identify command words.

Unfortunately when they reworked the 3.5 Identify spell and just gave a bonus to spellcraft they didn't copy the phrase from the 3.5 spell into spellcraft: "The spell determines all magic properties of a single magic item, including how to activate those functions (if appropriate), and how many charges are left (if any). "

Can a person take 10 or 20 on a spellcraft check?

[MagiMaster]

I detect an aura of necromancy around here. Give me a few more seconds to pinpoint it. :)

Take 10, yes outside of combat. (You can take 10 on any skill that doesn't explicitly forbid it, IIRC.)

Take 20, not really. You can only try once per day as per the Retry section from the skill. (I guess you could spend 20 days on it if you really wanted to.)