Kingdom Building Walkthrough


Kingmaker


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My fellow players and I have finally finished the first Kingmaker module and our ready to settle in and begin a settlement.

The only problem is, we have no idea how it really works. We spent two hours going over the rules last night and we were all thoroughly confused as there was no "step by step this-is-what-you-do" outline.

I was hoping some kind people, here, would walk our group through it and help generate a step by step guideline that will help other groups through it in the future. Thanks.

All we've really accomplished so far is coming up with a name (Elmbrook), assigning leadership positions, and determining the kingdom's starting size:

Size: 15 hexes (small)

POSITION; OCCUPANT; CONTRIBUTION
--------------------------------
Baron; Vacant; None
Baroness; Mila (PC); 4 Loy
Councilor; Svetlana; 2 Loy
General; Kesten Garas; 3 Sta
Grand Diplomat; Yoshi (PC); 4 Sta
High Priest; Jhod Karaken; 4 Sta
Magister; Tartuk; 4 Eco
Marshal; Foerth (PC); 5 Eco
Royal Assassin; Rufus (PC); 6 Loy
Spymaster; Linia (PC) 4 Eco
Treasurer; Oleg; 2 Eco
Warden; Crestle; 3 Loy

FINAL LEADERSHIP VALUES: Economy 15, Loyalty 15, Stability 11

So what do we do next (or are we already skipping something)?

EDIT: Also, our GM has all the rules, so please explain things clearly, as I don't have any rules in front of me other than those shown in the Player's Guide. Is the full rule set online somewhere?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As a member of Christopher's group, I would very much like some help understanding this stuff as well.

We're going to have quite the interesting kingdom with a deaf oracle as our Baroness, a kobold shaman as our Magister (almost became the Grand Diplomat), a goblin sniper as our Royal Assassin, a sociopath raised by Spriggans as the Marshal, and a Stolen Lands bandit as our Warden. ;P


Christopher Geiger wrote:
The only problem is, we have no idea how it really works. We spent two hours going over the rules last night and we were all thoroughly confused as there was no "step by step this-is-what-you-do" outline.

Has your GM not provided a copy of the rules to you then? Because there is, in fact, a step-by-step guide in the AP. If your GM hasn't provided the rules for you, it could be he doesn't want you to see the building values/bonuses and the like, which is fair...

I'll summarize, then. Note that these are the "core" kingdom building rules. Your GM might have house rules no one knows about.

Kingdom building goes on a month-by-month basis and goes on "Stages".

Stage 1 (which is skipped the first kingdom turn) is the Upkeep phase, which checks how your kingdom handled the last month's activities. Lots of rolls here, and you deal with your kingdom's consumption and unrest.

Stage 2 is the Improvements Phase. This is where you build cities, grow your kingdom, add your leaders, build roads and farms, and establish the laws of your kingdom - ie, edicts. This is where you start your first kingdom turn.

Stage 3 is the Income Phase. This is where you calculate how much BP your treasury has at the end of the month - through Economy checks, selling magic items, donations, and withdrawals.

Stage 4 is the Events Phase, which might be random events, or planned events; some you have to respond to in characters, others can be handled with just a roll.


Size 15 - It doesn't work like that. When you start, you are actually size 0. Most people start at the Stag Lord's Keep, you can get a castle for 1/2 price that way, which helps jump start your first city.

In the example above, when you claim your first hex and start building - the improvements phase, is also when you claim hexes, build roads and farmlands. Important tip - keep your consumption at or near zero by keeping up with farmlands. A farmland reduces consumption by 2, while each hex (or city district) increases it by 1. Roads are important as well (every four adds 1 to econ, every eight adds one to stability).

The Exchange

I know that this is going to look and sound repetitive, but I found it really useful when going through the phases with my players. I tried not to give any values that would reveal too much. This is step-by-step right out of the book. Not sure if your GM would approve. So view with caution. Perhaps ask your GM to look at it first and determine if you can view it.

Step-by-Step:

1. Upkeep Phase (Skipped the very first time only)
a. Roll a Stability Check – d20 + Stability modifiers.
b. Deduct consumption BP from your BP treasury.
c. Roll randomly for open Magic Item Slots in your cities.
d. Determine Unrest.

2. Improvement Phase
a. Assign Leaders – this will most likely stay the same from month to month once you get everyone settled into a position.
b. Claim hexes based on your kingdom size. (1 hex per month for small kingdoms.)
c. Start a new city and/or add to an existing city – this is when you can build up your cities and add buildings that will help improve your rolls.
d. Build roads in hexes you control. Rivers require a bridge and double the cost.
e. Designate hill and plains hexes as farmlands. Don’t designate one as a farmland if you are planning to build a city there later.
f. Pick or adjust your edicts. (Side note: I have house ruled that # of festivals per year must be determined at the beginning of the year and can not be changed until the next year. Didn’t make much sense to me that you could have 4 festivals per year one month and then lower it to 0 the next even though it was the same year.)

3. Income Phase
a. Deposit money for BP.

Spoiler:
(Side note: I have house ruled that the kingdom can pool magic items created in their cities that cost less than 4,000 gp to sell in this phase. I don’t like the fact that the PC’s have to spend their hard earned cash on magic items just to open up the slot. Whether or not this skews magic item creation I don’t know. We just started this part of the AP.)

b. Withdraw BP for cash. (insert oil joke here) This is where you would make your Loyalty check – d20 + Loyalty modifiers.
c. Sell valuable items. Economy check – d20 + Economy modifiers. This is where more and bigger cities come in handy.
d. Generate income – an Economy check – d20 + Economy modifiers.

4. Event Phase
a. Roll for event.

Like I said, it pretty much repeats what the book says, but it puts it on one sheet. Hope it helps.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I wouldn't worry about RULES spoilers. We were all reading the rules right alongside the GM and he wasn't at all shy about letting us see costs and stuff.

Also, why aren't we size 15? We explored and cleared 15 hexes during the adventure. If we aren't size 15, than that is a relief, the GM said we would be facing DC 35s on account of our size (20+size) and we had no idea how we were going to manage that on our current modifiers (which are all in the teens).

EDIT: Could somebody write out an example of play using the modifiers given above? It would really help out to have something like that to show my fellow players and GM.

EDIT: Shieldknight, in your step by step, what are the DCs for all those checks you mention?


Ravingdork wrote:
Also, why aren't we size 15? We explored and cleared 15 hexes during the adventure. If we aren't size 15, than that is a relief, the GM said we would be facing DC 35s on account of our size (20+size) and we had no idea how we were going to manage that on our current modifiers (which are all in the teens).

You aren't Size 15 because you haven't claimed 15 hexes. You have explored and cleared 15 hexes, yes, but exploring and clearing a hex is a prerequisite to claiming a hex. You claim hex during the Improvement Phase (Step 2b in Shieldknight's summary).

So you start off at Size 0, claim your first hex, making your Size 1. Since your Control DC is 20 + Size, your Control DC starts off at 20, then on your first step should go up to 21.

Almost all rolls are made against your Control DC. Edit: The rules vary between "Control DC" and "Command DC" - that's a typo and both mean the same thing. I believe I settled on Control DC for my game. So that's what I refer to when I say "Control DC".

Edit 2: For my own campaign I have the rules online. You can find them here - personally, I'm perfectly Okay with my players seeing all of the rules and values, but if your GM isn't, I'd caution you to keep to his game style. I've also added a few house rules to mine - so, again, your GM is final authority on what's what.


Archmage_Atrus wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Also, why aren't we size 15? We explored and cleared 15 hexes during the adventure. If we aren't size 15, than that is a relief, the GM said we would be facing DC 35s on account of our size (20+size) and we had no idea how we were going to manage that on our current modifiers (which are all in the teens).

You aren't Size 15 because you haven't claimed 15 hexes. You have explored and cleared 15 hexes, yes, but exploring and clearing a hex is a prerequisite to claiming a hex. You claim hex during the Improvement Phase (Step 2b in Shieldknight's summary).

So you start off at Size 0, claim your first hex, making your Size 1. Since your Control DC is 20 + Size, your Control DC starts off at 20, then on your first step should go up to 21.

Almost all rolls are made against your Control DC.

Archmage, I bow to your ninja skills...:)


You may want to listen to the first podcast episode of Flagons & Dragons: Nuts & Bolts. They go through the rules and a couple of turns of kingdom building.

http://www.flagonsanddragons.com/flagons-dragons-podcast-nuts-bolts-episode -1/


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Atrus, how is it that Oleg, as treasurer is giving your group a +3 bonus? Our GM said he would only give us a +2 bonus in that roll.

Is our GM mistaken?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TheDoctor wrote:

You may want to listen to the first podcast episode of Flagons & Dragons: Nuts & Bolts. They go through the rules and a couple of turns of kingdom building.

http://www.flagonsanddragons.com/flagons-dragons-podcast-nuts-bolts-episode -1/

GAH! You could have warned me about the spoilers!

Will's players stay out:
I didn't know anything about an assassination attempt!


Ravingdork wrote:

Atrus, how is it that Oleg, as treasurer is giving your group a +3 bonus? Our GM said he would only give us a +2 bonus in that roll.

Is our GM mistaken?

As I said - I use many house rules in my game. One of which is +1 ability score at every even level, not every 4. So Oleg's 3rd level had a +1 stat at 2nd, making his Int 16, not 15.

So as I said - your GM's word is final, not mine.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Archmage_Atrus wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

Atrus, how is it that Oleg, as treasurer is giving your group a +3 bonus? Our GM said he would only give us a +2 bonus in that roll.

Is our GM mistaken?

As I said - I use many house rules in my game. One of which is +1 ability score at every even level, not every 4. So Oleg's 3rd level had a +1 stat at 2nd, making his Int 16, not 15.

So as I said - your GM's word is final, not mine.

Thanks!


Re: Spoiler: I think that's a random event.

So it could occur very differently in your game or not at all.

The Exchange

Ravingdork wrote:
EDIT: Shieldknight, in your step by step, what are the DCs for all those checks you mention?

The DC is the Control (Command) DC. 20+Kingdom size

The Exchange

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EDIT: Long post for OP in response to their desire for an example.

We tried this on the forums for my group. You can check out our posts here.

Ravingdork wrote:
EDIT: Could somebody write out an example of play using the modifiers given above? It would really help out to have something like that to show my fellow players and GM.

But, I’ll try to sum it up here using your values. Things may be different based on where you establish your first hex and city.

First Month
First time ever, begin with Improvement Phase:
a. Assign leaders (which you have done)

Christopher Geiger wrote:


POSITION; OCCUPANT; CONTRIBUTION
--------------------------------
Baron; Vacant; None
Baroness; Mila (PC); 4 Loy
Councilor; Svetlana; 2 Loy
General; Kesten Garas; 3 Sta
Grand Diplomat; Yoshi (PC); 4 Sta
High Priest; Jhod Karaken; 4 Sta
Magister; Tartuk; 4 Eco
Marshal; Foerth (PC); 5 Eco
Royal Assassin; Rufus (PC); 6 Loy
Spymaster; Linia (PC) 4 Eco
Treasurer; Oleg; 2 Eco
Warden; Crestle; 3 Loy

FINAL LEADERSHIP VALUES: Economy 15, Loyalty 15, Stability 11

b. claim hexes (My group claimed the Temple of the Elk hex, a forest hex, you can start elsewhere) -1BP, +1 Consumption

c. start a new city (Staghart was started, this will take two months before you can build because it was started in a forest hex. We will assign the bottom as water and the rest of the sides of the district as land.) +1 Consumption
d. build roads – none
e. designate farmlands – can not in forest’s or in hexes with cities
f. pick edicts – This is where I house ruled that once picked, festivals could not be changed for a year. Let’s start with basic edicts, Promotion: Token (+1 Stability, -1BP), Taxation: None (0 Economy, +1 Loyalty), and 1 Festival per year (+1 Loyalty, -1BP)

You are now at 47BP, having spent 3 during the Improvement Phase. Consumption is now at 2. Your Economy value is unchanged, Loyalty is up 2 to 17, and Stability is up 1 to 12)

Income Phase:
a. Deposit (You may have some items left over from adventuring, so lets say you have enough small items to deposit 4000gp worth.) Add +1BP.
b. Withdraw (Let’s assume for now you don’t need any cash)
c. Sell (You may have one or two items that you wish to sell, but you have not established your city district yet. So you can not sell at this time. You must wait until your city is established.)
d. Generate income (Here we can attempt to make some BP for your kingdom) My group rolled a 22 on their first attempt. This makes the Control DC of 21, and nets you 4BP.

You are now at 52BP, having gained 5 during the Income Phase.

Event Phase:
Your GM should roll a chance for an event. 25% chance at this point. Let’s assume you don’t get an event at this point.

Your first month as a new kingdom is finished. Congratulations!

Second Month
Upkeep Phase:
a. Stability check (This is still at 12 until you change things in future phases.) My group made their first check, so let’s assume you do as well. The DC for this is currently 21 (20 + 1 for kingdom size, one hex claimed). Since you don’t have any unrest to begin with, you gain 1BP.
b. Consumption (You consumption is currently 2, 1 for one hex, and 1 for a city district.) -2BP
c. Magic Items (You do not have a building to create magic items, yet.)
d. Unrest (You are at 0, nothing to worry about.)

You are now at 51BP, having spent 2 for consumption and gained 1 from stability.

Improvement Phase:
a. Assign leadership (Let’s just keep them the same.)
b. Claim hexes (Let’s claim the forest hex directly east so we can make a b-line for the grassland and start farming.) -1BP, +1 Consumption
c. City Improvements (We still need to wait a month before we can begin building in this city. I did hand waive this for my group, so that they could start building right away.)
d. Build roads (We have a new hex, let’s build a road in it. I ruled that if a city is built in a hex, so is a road.) Forest road -2BP, needs a bridge -2BP.
e. farmland (still unable to do this, since you have no grassland or hill hexes)
f. Edicts (Let’s keep them the same for now.)

You are now at 46BP, having spent 5 during this phase. You have also increased consumption by 1 to 3BP per turn.

Income Phase:
a. Deposit (Let’s assume you already deposited everything you could last time.)
b. Withdraw (Not yet)
c. Sell (Nothing yet)
d. Generate Income – Let’s assume you get a bad roll this time, 18, this gets you nothing.

You are now at 46BP, having neither gained nor spent BP.

Event Phase:
You GM should roll for a chance at an event. 50% chance at this point. Let’s assume you still don’t get an event.

Your second month is over, the next month you can begin construction of a building and possibly even establish some farmland.

Third Month
Upkeep Phase:
a. Stability check (This is still at 12 until you change things in future phases.) My group made their second check, so let’s assume you do as well. The DC for this is currently 22 (20 + 2 for kingdom size, two hexes claimed). Since you don’t have any unrest to begin with, you gain 1BP.
b. Consumption (You consumption is currently 3, 2 for two hexes claimed, and 1 for a city district.) -3BP
c. Magic Items (You do not have a building to create magic items, yet.)
d. Unrest (You are at 0, nothing to worry about.)

You are now at 44BP, having spent 3 for consumption and gained 1 for stability.

Improvement Phase:
a. Assign leadership (Let’s just keep them the same.)
b. Claim hexes (Let’s claim the hill hex directly east so we can start farming.) -1BP, +1 Consumption
c. City Improvements (We can now build, let’s start with a Temple since you have a ruined temple already it will only cost half price.) -16BP, 2 minor item slots, +2 Stability, +2 Loyalty, -2 Unrest
d. Build roads (We have a new hex, let’s build a road in it. I ruled that if a city is built in a hex, so is a road.) Hill road -1BP.
e. farmland (All right, we now have a hill hex, let’s establish farmland.) -4BP, -2 Consumption
f. Edicts (Let’s keep them the same for now.)

You are now at 24BP, having spent 22 during this phase. You have also decreased consumption by 1 to 2BP per turn. (3 for hexes claimed, 1 for city district, -2 for farmland) Stability has increased to 14 and Loyalty has increased to 19.

Income Phase:
a. Deposit (Let’s assume you already deposited everything you could last time.)
b. Withdraw (Not yet)
c. Sell (Nothing yet)
d. Generate Income – Let’s assume you get a great roll this time, 30, this gets you 6BP.

You are now at 30BP, having gained 6 from income.

Event Phase:
You GM should roll for a chance at an event. 75% chance at this point. Let’s assume you get an event. Roll random percent to see what you get. My group got an Outstanding Success on their first roll. This gives them +1d6 BP, +4 bonus to Economy checks until the next event phase, and -2 Unrest.

You are now at 34BP, having gained 4 from an Event.

Fourth Month
I figured I better do the fourth month, so that I can add in the magic item creation and selling.
Upkeep Phase:
a. Stability check (This is now at 14, thanks to building the temple.) My group made their third check, so let’s assume you do as well. The DC for this is currently 23 (20 + 3 for kingdom size, three hexes claimed). Since you don’t have any unrest to begin with, you gain 1BP.
b. Consumption (You consumption is currently 2, 3 for three hexes claimed, 1 for a city district, -2 for farmlands.) -2BP
c. Magic Items (You can now create magic items.) Roll randomly, we use the tables in the Core Rulebook and Gamemastery Guide. Let’s assume you gain one minor item worth less than 4,000gp and one minor item worth more than 4,000gp.
d. Unrest (You are at 0, nothing to worry about.)

You are now at 33BP, having spent 2 for consumption and gained 1 for stability.

Improvement Phase:
a. Assign leadership (Let’s just keep them the same.)
b. Claim hexes (Let’s claim the grassland hex directly north so we can continue farming and quickly incorporate Oleg’s.) -1BP, +1 Consumption
c. City Improvements (We built a temple last time, so lets build something to increase Economy this time. How about a graveyard? The cost is halved because we have a Temple, and we get an Economy bonus.) -2BP, +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
d. Build roads (We have a new hex, let’s build a road in it. I ruled that if a city is built in a hex, so is a road.) Grassland road -1BP.
e. farmland (All right, we now have a grassland hex, let’s establish farmland.) -2BP, -2 Consumption
f. Edicts (Let’s keep them the same for now.)

You are now at 18BP, having spent 6 during this phase. You have also decreased consumption by 1 to 1BP per turn. (4 for hexes claimed, 1 for city district, -4 for farmland) Economy has increased to 16 and Loyalty has increased to 20.

Income Phase:
a. Deposit (Let’s assume you already deposited everything you could last time.)
b. Withdraw (Not yet)
c. Sell (We now have something to sell.) We only have one city district so we can only attempt to sell one item. We are going to attempt to sell the item worth more than 4,000gp. The DC for this roll is 20 for a minor item. Since you have a +4 bonus to this check, it’s a no brainer. You roll an Economy check and easily get it. +2BP
d. Generate Income – Let’s assume you get an average roll this time, 30 (+16 normally, +4 bonus = +20 to the roll), this gets you 6BP.

You are now at 26BP, having gained 8 from sales and income.

Event Phase:
You GM should roll for a chance at an event. Since you had an event the last time your chance drops back down to 25%. Let’s assume you get an event. Roll random percent to see what you get. You got lucky and got an Economic boon. This gives you +1d6 BP.

You are now at 34BP, having gained 8 from an Event. (You get to reroll 6’s and keep adding the results.)

Phew! Hope that helps. Good luck.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

THANKS!

I've about got it understood at this point, but that example aught to really help my fellow players.

Sovereign Court

Shieldknight wrote:

EDIT: Long post for OP in response to their desire for an example.

We tried this on the forums for my group. You can check out our posts here.

Ravingdork wrote:
EDIT: Could somebody write out an example of play using the modifiers given above? It would really help out to have something like that to show my fellow players and GM.

But, I’ll try to sum it up here using your values. Things may be different based on where you establish your first hex and city.

First Month
First time ever, begin with Improvement Phase:
a. Assign leaders (which you have done)

Christopher Geiger wrote:


POSITION; OCCUPANT; CONTRIBUTION
--------------------------------
Baron; Vacant; None
Baroness; Mila (PC); 4 Loy
Councilor; Svetlana; 2 Loy
General; Kesten Garas; 3 Sta
Grand Diplomat; Yoshi (PC); 4 Sta
High Priest; Jhod Karaken; 4 Sta
Magister; Tartuk; 4 Eco
Marshal; Foerth (PC); 5 Eco
Royal Assassin; Rufus (PC); 6 Loy
Spymaster; Linia (PC) 4 Eco
Treasurer; Oleg; 2 Eco
Warden; Crestle; 3 Loy

FINAL LEADERSHIP VALUES: Economy 15, Loyalty 15, Stability 11

b. claim hexes (My group claimed the Temple of the Elk hex, a forest hex, you can start elsewhere) -1BP, +1 Consumption

c. start a new city (Staghart was started, this will take two months before you can build because it was started in a forest hex. We will assign the bottom as water and the rest of the sides of the district as land.) +1 Consumption
d. build roads – none
e. designate farmlands – can not in forest’s or in hexes with cities
f. pick edicts – This is where I house ruled that once picked, festivals could not be changed for a year. Let’s start with basic edicts, Promotion: Token (+1 Stability, -1BP), Taxation: None (0 Economy, +1 Loyalty), and 1 Festival per year (+1 Loyalty, -1BP)

You are now at 47BP, having spent 3 during the Improvement Phase....

Nicely done. I would like to point out, GMs choice and all, but the book does mention letting the PCs build up the kingdom for a year before starting to hit them with the random/planned events, for the purposes of having something to have the events happen to.

Also, it's highly group/GM dependent, but kingdom building can easily get out of hand if people build it for numbers vs. reality, i.e. filling a city with graveyards due to cost and inherent bonuses. Not saying your group(s) do this, but just throwing that out there for consideration.

Oh, and I really like your ruling on Festivals, also.

The Exchange

Runnetib wrote:
Nicely done. I would like to point out, GMs choice and all, but the book does mention letting the PCs build up the kingdom for a year before starting to hit them with the random/planned events, for the purposes of having something to have the events happen to.

My group wanted the random events, so I gave it to them in the first year. But you are right, most groups should probably avoid the Event Phase for the first year.

Runnetib wrote:
Also, it's highly group/GM dependent, but kingdom building can easily get out of hand if people build it for numbers vs. reality, i.e. filling a city with graveyards due to cost and inherent bonuses. Not saying your group(s) do this, but just throwing that out there for consideration.

Since my group started with the Temple, they wanted a place to bury the dead. Death is quite rampant in unsettled territory. The next building they constructed was an Inn with a house. I know they are going to work on buildings that meet their needs (in character) and not just go after the numbers. They enjoy the roleplaying aspect of it too much to number crunch through the whole thing. I also have one player who is really interested in the kingdom building aspect, so I have let them just take off with it. I'm just there to make sure everything is by the rules and to provide some NPC insight once in a while.

Runnetib wrote:
Oh, and I really like your ruling on Festivals, also.

Thanks.

The biggest point I can make, is to just have fun with it. If something doesn't quite work for your group, feel free to adjust. Having said that, I would also recommend not adjusting too much.

The Exchange

I had asked this on another thread, but thought I would ask it hear and see what everyone thinks. Since I never got an answer from anyone on the other thread.

If my players want to move their capital, what's the penalty/cost?

They have established their capital in one location and built a town in another. The second town is flourishing better and has better defenses. They wish to make the second town their capital and the first one would just become a has been.

I guess I was thinking maybe some stability penalties for a few months/years before the population gets used to the new location. Maybe a permanent Unrest penalty since the people in the old capital will always remember that the capital was stolen from them?

Later I came up with this...

I have come up with the following: (Please let me know what you think)
1) You can establish a kingdom without establishing a capital.
2) Until you establish a capital, you will incur a -2 penalty to Stability checks.
3) You will need a city in your new Kingdom, even if you don't designate it as the capital.
4) The original city built will be unable to grow for 4 months after the new city becomes the capital. This is to represent the mass exodus from your city as citizens move to the official "Capital".

I have since adjusted this to -1 penalty and 2 months. I never found anything that said you had to establish a capital. I think it was just assumed that it would be the first city you build. But I can think of plenty of real life examples where this is not the case. Even my own state has switched capital's from when it was a territory to when it became a state.

Sovereign Court

Shieldknight wrote:
Runnetib wrote:
Nicely done. I would like to point out, GMs choice and all, but the book does mention letting the PCs build up the kingdom for a year before starting to hit them with the random/planned events, for the purposes of having something to have the events happen to.

My group wanted the random events, so I gave it to them in the first year. But you are right, most groups should probably avoid the Event Phase for the first year.

Runnetib wrote:
Also, it's highly group/GM dependent, but kingdom building can easily get out of hand if people build it for numbers vs. reality, i.e. filling a city with graveyards due to cost and inherent bonuses. Not saying your group(s) do this, but just throwing that out there for consideration.

Since my group started with the Temple, they wanted a place to bury the dead. Death is quite rampant in unsettled territory. The next building they constructed was an Inn with a house. I know they are going to work on buildings that meet their needs (in character) and not just go after the numbers. They enjoy the roleplaying aspect of it too much to number crunch through the whole thing. I also have one player who is really interested in the kingdom building aspect, so I have let them just take off with it. I'm just there to make sure everything is by the rules and to provide some NPC insight once in a while.

Runnetib wrote:
Oh, and I really like your ruling on Festivals, also.

Thanks.

The biggest point I can make, is to just have fun with it. If something doesn't quite work for your group, feel free to adjust. Having said that, I would also recommend not adjusting too much.

Just want to clarify, I hope you don't think I was trying to be insulting to you, your group, or chosen playstyle, just trying to point out some things that have been known issues to those new to kingdom building.

Sovereign Court

Shieldknight wrote:

I had asked this on another thread, but thought I would ask it hear and see what everyone thinks. Since I never got an answer from anyone on the other thread.

If my players want to move their capital, what's the penalty/cost?

They have established their capital in one location and built a town in another. The second town is flourishing better and has better defenses. They wish to make the second town their capital and the first one would just become a has been.

I guess I was thinking maybe some stability penalties for a few months/years before the population gets used to the new location. Maybe a permanent Unrest penalty since the people in the old capital will always remember that the capital was stolen from them?

Later I came up with this...

I have come up with the following: (Please let me know what you think)
1) You can establish a kingdom without establishing a capital.
2) Until you establish a capital, you will incur a -2 penalty to Stability checks.
3) You will need a city in your new Kingdom, even if you don't designate it as the capital.
4) The original city built will be unable to grow for 4 months after the new city becomes the capital. This is to represent the mass exodus from your city as citizens move to the official "Capital".

I have since adjusted this to -1 penalty and 2 months. I never found anything that said you had to establish a capital. I think it was just assumed that it would be the first city you build. But I can think of plenty of real life examples where this is not the case. Even my own state has switched capital's from when it was a territory to when it became a state.

I think moving the capital city was discussed in one of the Kingmaker threads, but I don't recall which. It said there was nothing in the rules preventing it, but I believe it was supposed to cause an amount of unrest as well as stability penalty, IIRC. I'm trying to locate it now, and will re-post if I find it.

EDIT* It's actually in the Kingdom Building thread you posted in. Page 8, at the bottom, post 400 by James Jacobs.

James Jacobs wrote:
There's no rules to support a changed capital city, so I'd say at this time no. Might be cool to allow a capital change that causes some unrest, I suppose. Probably something like 1d6 points, since that's a pretty huge change to the nation and not likely to instill confidence in the people.

The Exchange

Runnetib wrote:

Just want to clarify, I hope you don't think I was trying to be insulting to you, your group, or chosen playstyle, just trying to point out some things that have been known issues to those new to kingdom building.

I wasn't taking it personally, I was just clarifying my groups thinking process. Every group will be different, and only you as the GM can know what will and won't work. And even then you may not get it right. Anything I say is just a suggestion and may be something that worked for my group.

A little info on my group: All experienced gamers with the newest having more than 10 years experience. Average around 20 years experience. They are not min/max players, but enjoy roleplaying and developing their characters. Including giving their characters non-optimal build choices just because it fits the character.

Sovereign Court

Shieldknight wrote:
Runnetib wrote:

Just want to clarify, I hope you don't think I was trying to be insulting to you, your group, or chosen playstyle, just trying to point out some things that have been known issues to those new to kingdom building.

I wasn't taking it personally, I was just clarifying my groups thinking process. Every group will be different, and only you as the GM can know what will and won't work. And even then you may not get it right. Anything I say is just a suggestion and may be something that worked for my group.

A little info on my group: All experienced gamers with the newest having more than 10 years experience. Average around 20 years experience. They are not min/max players, but enjoy roleplaying and developing their characters. Including giving their characters non-optimal build choices just because it fits the character.

Nice. My type of group.


In this THREAD, Alex Kilcoyne ran the Kingdom Building for his Play by Post game on the Paizo boards. It was 24 months of building.

Warning - It contains the basic rules, and a few spoiler items, but in general is a player friendly thread.

-- david
Papa.DRB

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