no they dont stack. enlarge person specifically states that it effects humanoids only, and the eidolon's type is eidolon (outsider), not humanoid.
Both previous posters are correct, and both are somewhat wrong.
A summoner can cast enlarge person on his Eidolon and it will have its effect (making them one size larger, size bonus/penalty to str/dex, etc) due to the Link special ability. This will also stack with any size increasing evolutions, which are not explicitly called out as being of the same type as Enlarge Person (see the Master Chymist for an example of a permanent size-up that does have such a tag).
A summoner can NOT increase the size of his eidolon by having it drink a potion of enlarge person, or anyone else casting it, due to the limitation on Humanoids only coming into effect. Only spells the summoner himself casts can benefit from the Link special ability.
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Both previous posters are correct, and both are somewhat wrong.
A summoner can cast enlarge person on his Eidolon and it will have its effect (making them one size larger, size bonus/penalty to str/dex, etc) due to the Link special ability. This will also stack with any size increasing evolutions, which are not explicitly called out as being of the same type as Enlarge Person (see the Master Chymist for an example of a permanent size-up that does have such a tag).
A summoner can NOT increase the size of his eidolon by having it drink a potion of enlarge person, or anyone else casting it, due to the limitation on Humanoids only coming into effect. Only spells the summoner himself casts can benefit from the Link special ability.
I guess I just assumed the ummoner cast it.
U CAN NOT cast enlarge person on ur eidolon. The link ability only allows u to cast spells with the range of Personal on ur eidolon, but the eidolon must still meet the prerequisites of the spell, in this case, being humanoid, which the eidolon is not.
U CAN NOT cast enlarge person on ur eidolon. The link ability only allows u to cast spells with the range of Personal on ur eidolon, but the eidolon must still meet the prerequisites of the spell, in this case, being humanoid, which the eidolon is not.
they can
"A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider)."
YOU, YOUR...
That is all.
YOU, YOUR...
That is all.
HUH WHAT?
That is all.
He was mocking Filpernackle's inability to use proper words, and assessing his rules interpretation based solely on the evidence that he cannot do so. I agree with Abraham's methodology and conclusion.
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He was mocking Filpernackle's inability to use proper words, and assessing his rules interpretation based solely on the evidence that he cannot do so. I agree with Abraham's methodology and conclusion.YOU, YOUR...
That is all.
HUH WHAT?
That is all.
Ah. Call me slow, I thought it was some sort of obscure comment about what Rath said.
This Question is every month.
A official comment in the FAQ would help much.
btw. i am sure u can cast it on the eidolon.
The Share Spell entry for the summoner states:
The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list.
Thus a summoner may cast spells on his eidolon that normally do not affect him. This is different to the wording of the share spell ability in 3.5 (in the familiar entry, which now has the same share spell entry as the eidolon):
At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit.If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of "You" on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.
A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast).
Here a wizard would only have been able to use spells on his familiar that are reserved for humanoids if he either uses the spell on himself and the familiar stays within 5ft. or the spell had target "You". Thus he could have enlarged himself and his familiar, but they would have to stay within 5ft. of each other.
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U CAN NOT cast enlarge person on ur eidolon. The link ability only allows u to cast spells with the range of Personal on ur eidolon, but the eidolon must still meet the prerequisites of the spell, in this case, being humanoid, which the eidolon is not.they can
"A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider)."
Enlarge person would not work with Share spells. Share spells says "The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself."
Enlarge person is not a touch spell and does not have "you" as a target. "you" being in the description of the spell (as per "Detect Evil").
Enlarge person is not a touch spell and does not have "you" as a target. "you" being in the description of the spell (as per "Detect Evil").
But it also says:
"A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list."Thus it is allowed.
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LINK TO THE SUMMONER CLASS ON THE PRD.
Scroll down a bit and read the Eidolon's version of Share Spells for yourself. Now you don't have to doubt what people are posting.
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Enlarge person is not a touch spell and does not have "you" as a target. "you" being in the description of the spell (as per "Detect Evil").But it also says:
"A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list."Thus it is allowed.
The first line states that the spells affect the eidolon's type. So, yes, Enlarge Person says "one humanoid" and thus it would affect the eidolon. But, the Share Spells also says that it must have a target of "you" (as a spell with the range of touch) and Enlarge Person has a range of "Close" and "you" does not appear in the spell description.
Enlarge Person already is deliverable to other targets (this isn´t relying on Share Spells´ conversion of You spells), and the wording says the Eidolon´s type is irrelevant to whether it can be affected by Summoner spells cast by it´s master... NOT limited to just ´shared spells´ as the Wizard Familiar is (as Maxxx astutely pointed out and quoted).
Who knows, MAYBE the intent was for that line to only apply to ´Shared SPells´, but as written it´s not limited in that way... Given that Wizard Familiars DO work that way, but this wording was changed rather than copy-and-pasted, I would ASSUME it´s an intended change.
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I think you are misunderstanding the share spells text. it does not state that the spell "must" have a target of you to work but rather that a spell "may" have a target of you and still work. It is expanding the ways a summoner may buff his eidolon not restricting it.
Share Spells (Ex): The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list.
You may cast the spell on your eidolon instead of yourself which has a target of "you". And from page 214 of the core rulebook, under Aiming a Spell: "If the target of a spell is yourself (the Target line of the spell description includes “You”)". Enlarge Person target line "Close". Detect Evil target line in the spell description "You".
Eidolons have both abilities - counting as humanoid, and sharing personal spells with their summoner.
Lachlan, you´re trying to suggest that it works like Wizard Familiars.
But why is the wording different, then?
I mean, there´s an argument that because both are listed under the Share Spells ability, that is the scope of both sentences, but the fact remains that the line saying Eidolons can be affected by Summoner spells applies to ALL spells cast by their Master. The Wizard Familiar is an existing exampe of wording which DOESN´T work that way (applies only to ´shared spells´), and COULD have been pasted in, BUT THAT WASN´T DONE.
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Lachlan, you´re trying to suggest that it works like Wizard Familiars.
But why is the wording different, then?I mean, there´s an argument that because both are listed under the Share Spells ability, that is the scope of both sentences, but the fact remains that the line saying Eidolons can be affected by Summoner spells applies to ALL spells cast by their Master. The Wizard Familiar is an existing exampe of wording which DOESN´T work that way (applies only to ´shared spells´), and COULD have been pasted in, BUT THAT WASN´T DONE.
But, that's the thing. It doesnt state or suggest that it can be affected by ALL Summoner Spells. It states which spells can be used and that spell -must- be in the Summoner's Spell list. That's to let you know that if you cast a spell from a scroll for a spell not on the Summoner's Spell list, it can't be used through Share Spells.
I think you are misunderstanding the share spells text. it does not state that the spell "must" have a target of you to work but rather that a spell "may" have a target of you and still work. It is expanding the ways a summoner may buff his eidolon not restricting it.Share Spells (Ex): The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list.
You may cast the spell on your eidolon instead of yourself which has a target of "you". And from page 214 of the core rulebook, under Aiming a Spell: "If the target of a spell is yourself (the Target line of the spell description includes “You”)". Enlarge Person target line "Close". Detect Evil target line in the spell description "You".
There are two sentences because those you are your two options.
The spell can have a target of "you", and it can be cast on the eidolon even though it is not human. You can't use one class's version to define another class. Look at the ranger's hide in plain sight, as compared to the shadow dancer's as an example. Same name, but different affect.The Summoner's version can affect outsiders because the book says it can.
It should be noted that the Pathfinder Familiar entry lists the same thing (the one I quoted before, was from 3.5 for comparison):
Share Spells: The wizard may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself. A wizard may cast spells on his familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast).
It states that a wizard may target his familiar with spells that normally are reserved for personal use (1st sentence) AND that a wizard may target his familiar with spells normally not allowed due to type restrictions (2nd sentence). In contrast to earlier editions the second sentence does not reference the first one in any way, thus applies to all spells not only those with target "You".
The Summoner is a bit more restrictive in the sense that he is only allowed to do this with summoner spells, while a wizard could do it with all spells he can cast from any class he might have.|
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I think you are misunderstanding the share spells text. it does not state that the spell "must" have a target of you to work but rather that a spell "may" have a target of you and still work. It is expanding the ways a summoner may buff his eidolon not restricting it.Share Spells (Ex): The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list.
You may cast the spell on your eidolon instead of yourself which has a target of "you". And from page 214 of the core rulebook, under Aiming a Spell: "If the target of a spell is yourself (the Target line of the spell description includes “You”)". Enlarge Person target line "Close". Detect Evil target line in the spell description "You".
There are two sentences because those you are your two options.
The spell can have a target of "you", and it can be cast on the eidolon even though it is not human. You can't use one class's version to define another class. Look at the ranger's hide in plain sight, as compared to the shadow dancer's as an example. Same name, but different affect.
The Summoner's version can affect outsiders because the book says it can.
Now see. That's the first logical argument that makes sense. I was putting the two sentences together, like they were all requirements to be able to Share Spells. But, in actuality, because there is a period, they are actually two different conditions. Thanks, Wraithstrike.
YOU, YOUR...
Agreed.
This Question is every month.
Haha! I'm not falling that one!
You want someone to ask "This question is what?" so you can answer "Every Month!"
Too much cheezeburger network for me to be fooled by this!
But, that's the thing. It doesnt state or suggest that it can be affected by ALL Summoner Spells. It states which spells can be used and that spell -must- be in the Summoner's Spell list. That's to let you know that if you cast a spell from a scroll for a spell not on the Summoner's Spell list, it can't be used through Share Spells.** spoiler omitted **
ok neither the first nor the second sentence uses restrictions in its language. Also, neither the first nor the second sentence are connected in any way. IE, a summoner can use share spells to cast spells with a target of "you" on his eidolon( a modification of aiming rules) or he can cast spells that affect creature types other than outsider on his eidolon( a modification of creature types a spell works on). The only restriction on this is that these spells must come from the summoner's spell list and the summoner must be the one casting them.
btw, are there any spells with a range of you that also only work on certain creature types?
I already cleared it up for him.
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But, that's the thing. It doesnt state or suggest that it can be affected by ALL Summoner Spells. It states which spells can be used and that spell -must- be in the Summoner's Spell list. That's to let you know that if you cast a spell from a scroll for a spell not on the Summoner's Spell list, it can't be used through Share Spells.** spoiler omitted **
ok neither the first nor the second sentence uses restrictions in its language. Also, neither the first nor the second sentence are connected in any way. IE, a summoner can use share spells to cast spells with a target of "you" on his eidolon( a modification of aiming rules) or he can cast spells that affect creature types other than outsider on his eidolon( a modification of creature types a spell works on). The only restriction on this is that these spells must come from the summoner's spell list and the summoner must be the one casting them.
btw, are there any spells with a range of you that also only work on certain creature types?
Well, I already posted earlier that I agreed with all that once Wraithstrike pointed out they were two totally different conditions, not multiple conditions for Share Spells to work. And, no, I know of no spells where type is considered for range of "you".
This whole recurring argument just goes back to the biggest issue with this class.
At it's core, it's so exception oriented, that nobody can look at the rest of the core rules and try to get a sense of what was intended, since it is almost NEVER like any other core rule interpretation.
You're killing me, seriously... enough with the "TARGET of CLOSE" already, it doesn't exist.
RANGE: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
TARGET: one humanoid creature
Painfully reminds me of "I Magic Missile the Darkness!".
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One of the biggest changes I noticed with 'Share Spell' was that a multiclass character can no longer use spells from a class DIFFERENT from the one providing his companion/familiar. (without taking Arcane Heriophant PrC - Races of the Wild) The spell has to be from the spell list of the class that has the companion/familiar class feature.
EX: Druid/Wizard in PF cannot cast 'Enlarge Person' on his Companion, but could on his Familiar and vice-versa for the Familiar and Druid Spells such as 'Barkskin'. This was a viable tactic in 3.5E.