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I have a player, who is attracted to the flavour of this class, and my game is about to transfer over to the PF rules.
Therefore, I am examining this class, and considering changes that need to be made, both to match the changes in the rule set, and to reset the balance with the classes that have been improved.
Going through the class, in order;
Prerequisites:
Race: Dwarf. This makes sense. This class is based around their racial strengths, and represents a racial paragon, who pursues a communion with their allied spirits of the earth.
BAB: +5. This seems to be there purely as a level threshold marker. It can stay or go, depending on whether this threshold can be effectively upheld via other prerequisites. One must also consider if the class abilities are powerful enough to warrant a minimum entry level, and if so, whether level 5 is too high or too low.
Skills: Craft (stone) 6 ranks, Speak Terran. These are both within the character of the class, with the obvious proviso that the Craft ranks should be reduced to 3 for PF, to reflect the revised skill rules. What is lacking, is any class ability that builds further upon these skills, making them effectively a skill tax entry price.
Feats: Endurance. Again, in character with the background flavour text.
Special: Ritual, cost, and focus. Again, this is characterful; however, the cost is far more than that for other prestige classes, assuming they even have a cost at all. The focus is also an everpresent Achilles Heel, and as such, the class abilities deserve to be stronger or more versatile than normal to compensate, which I am not satisfied they are.
Minimum Entry Level: Alluded to above; the various prerequisites make different assumptions as to the minimum level.
The BAB can be gained by level 5, by a full-BAB martial class, or by level 7 by a ¾-BAB class.
The skills can be gained by level 3, though the assumption may be that a 2-skill class may not be able to spare the ranks in 'non-essential' skills immediately, thus may delay them.
The feat can be gained by level 1, though, again the assumption may be that more immediate feats may take precedence until later levels. Rangers get the feat as a bonus at level 3, but whether this prestige class is suited to a ranger is debatable. One who takes his favoured terrain as mountains and/or caves, and stays in those terrains may benefit from always having stone available to manifest some of the abilities.
So, to sum up, we have a prestige class that is narrowly specialised in dealing with one or two elements and terrains, and appears to be intended for high-Con Dwarven martial characters.
Each of the class abilities must be weighed against other options that become available at similar level, which currently stands at a minimum of (Stonelord level +5).
The class has a high gp entry price, and imposes a dependence on a material focus; as such, the class abilities should compare favorably with those of classes without such restrictions.
Two skills are required, but never expanded on or referred to again; this should change.
If the class is intended to be taken by certain highly-customisable classes, such as Fighters and Rangers, the class abilities need to synergise more with each other and those base class abilities, to compensate for the restricted focus.
I am not convinced the class, as written, does all the above. If it can be shown that it does not, then the class abilities should be improved, and/or the prerequisites eased, so that the abilites compare with those attainable at lower character level.
Am I missing anything obvious? I welcome any comments on the above.
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Going through the class abilities, in order;
Earth Blood: (Sp) Once per day, as a standard action, the ability to heal 1d8+(class level) hit points.
I find this very underwhelming.
There are folk out there, who will swear that this is an amazing ability, since it lets a martial character cast actual, honest-to-goodness <hushed tones> magic </end hushed tones>, but that doesn't wash with me.
If anything, it highlights the Martial/Caster divide, that such an effect is expected to elicit gasps of awe, when it is, to all intents and purposes, a situational Cure Light Wounds, granted at character level 6+.
By level 4, five of the eleven core classes have this on their spell lists, and are able to trigger wands, or complete scrolls. Three of those classes are able to do so from level 1.
Add in the APG classes, and five of seventeen base classes are able to do this out of the gate, seven by level 4.
Add the availability of potions, which can be crafted from level 3, or bought prior to that, and it is clear that the ability to regain 1d8+X hp per day is simply not exciting, nor class-defining.
Indeed, given that allied casters will be channeling, casting 3d8 cures, or breaking out the wands after each fight, it is an ability that the owner may even forget they have.
Add to this, the fact that it relies on a material component, which may not always be available (on ship, in flight, on flagged roads, in gelatinous-cube-swept dungeons), it has less utility than the equivalent spell.
Verdict: this needs work.
Your right, but keep in mind if given anything to powerful it may become to much. Your best bet is to A.) Make it so it goes up with level (something akin to 1d8+1/3 levels) which would make it a little more powerful or give it a number of uses per day; Or combine the two. As for the effect needed to activate i don't have the book open right now (im converting Tomb of the Lizard king) but if i remember you needed some earth to rub on yourself. Is their an ability already in there that lets you convert Stone to earth? and im sure a character COULD just carry some earth with them. If you want you could always give them a sort of Regen power usable a certain number of rounds per day and the character has to eat a piece of dirt or something similar.
Anyway my two cents ill see if i cant think of something better later (hell i might even just make a conversion, i get bored easy lol) Hope that helped a wee bit.
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Your right, but keep in mind if given anything to powerful it may become to much.
Oh, totally.
I think there was a backlash against some prestige classes, which gave out new abilities without costing anything (Radiant Servant?), so I think some writers erred to the other extreme.Your best bet is to A.) Make it so it goes up with level... or give it a number of uses per day; Or combine the two.
Well, it already goes up by 1hp/level, but that isn't particularly impressive. At max level 10 (which would be character level 15+) it would be good for 11-18 hp/day, average 15. That's 1hp for every HD; assuming a martial PC with full BAB and thus d10s for HD, even if they take only average 10 Con (+2 from race), and spend all favored class options on skills, they'd have a max of 7 times that.
And the opposition at CR 15 would wipe those hp off with a single blow, even allowing for stoneskin or other DR. It's simply not a relevant amount of hp to be worth a mention.So, yes. I believe some boost is needed, in the amount, or uses per day, or by making it more convenient (see below).
As for the effect needed to activate i don't have the book open right now (im converting Tomb of the Lizard king) but if i remember you needed some earth to rub on yourself. Is their an ability already in there that lets you convert Stone to earth? and im sure a character COULD just carry some earth with them.
It's a standard action, and requires earth or mud, which in some situations, may mean two actions, one of which is to find some earth or mud.
Rather than forcing the use of a material component, how about having the effect be improved, if the earth is used? In the manner of a 'power component'? The normal effect is X; if you take the time to open your reliquary, containing holy, blessed loam from the hearth-cave (which may take multiple actions, incur AoO, or only be feasible outside of combat), the effect can be 2X?if you want you could always give them a sort of Regen power usable a certain number of rounds per day and the character has to eat a piece of dirt or something similar.
That's worth consideration, either as an improvement to this ability, or to keep in reserve for an alternate class ability.
Fast healing and DR are viable alternatives to healing (which can be an overly-common resource), and are more likely to provide the class with something rarer they can call their own.Regen while digesting gems, perhaps?
Anyway my two cents ill see if i cant think of something better later (hell i might even just make a conversion, i get bored easy lol) Hope that helped a wee bit.
Very helpful, if only to reassure me I'm not shouting into the wind.
I was expecting a pitchfork wielding mob to storm in, telling me the class is fine.|
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Here's my conversion, feel free to use it if you wish snorter. hope that helps :)
Edit: snap I just noticed you were already there recently lol.
Yes, I've been by, and your version is worth consideration.
Increasing uses of Stone Powers per day is straightforward and easy to explain and implement. And access to the Earth domain is on my list of possible fixes.I set up my own thread, so I could take the time and space I need to explore the class methodically. The self-discipline of examining each element, and justifying my reasoning to the satisfaction of semi-strangers, helps me to gather my thoughts into a coherent argument, that I can sell to my group. I need to be sure my concerns are valid, and there is no hint of favouritism to one player.
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Moving on to level 2;
Stone Power: At every even-numbered level, the PC gains one of 9 powers, each one Con-based, and using class level for caster level.
Unless otherwise noted, all are standard actions.
Having the abilities be Con-based does increase the likelihood of having a high stat bonus (given this is a dwarf-only PrC), and reduces MAD, so this is a positive.
Having caster level trail behind character level by at least -5 could be a problem, vs dispelling or SR. Current half-casters (paladin and ranger) operate at their class level -3, so this aspect is on the low side.
Analysis of individual Stone Powers to follow.
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Stone Power; Earthgrip (Sp): As Hold Monster, 1/day, on a target in contact with the ground.
This would seem to be a powerful ability (equivalent to bard 4/inquisitor 4/wizard 5), if it is gained at the earliest possible level (level 7). The above classes gain access to this spell at levels 10, 10 and 9 respectively. Advantage Stonelord, if picked early.
However, this early access comes at the price of targetting restrictions, and limited duration (2 rounds at class level 2).
The limited duration is not a dealbreaker, but does mean the ability must be used more tactically; the caster's allies must be ready to step in immediately to take advantage.
Advantage Others.
If taken as a power at level 4, 6, 8, or 10, the duration extends, but the comparative power reduces, relative to what other classes are by then gaining access to. Also, the likelihood of opponents being exempt rises, via flight, levitation, etc. Advantage Others.
Also, those classes are gaining access to mutiple spells/day, each time they gain access to a new spell level (dependent on the value of their casting stat bonus). Advantage Others.
They also gain access to a wider variety of spell effects, rather than one set effect. Advantage Others.
As a spell-like ability, it removes the requirement for verbal, somatic, material or divine focus, and is not subject to counterspelling. Advantage Stonelord.
Verdict: Casting in armor or while grappled or silenced is attractive, but not something that will be relevant often. This needs something extra to compensate for the single use, targetting restrictions, short duration, and lack of variety.
Earth's Blood (Su): Dwarves say their blood is of the earth, stonelords bring that tale some truth. A stonelord may gain regeneration of 3 for a number of round equal to 5+Con modifier. These round need not be consecutive. The amount regenerated increases by one for every four levels gained after the first.
Here's a bit of a rough draft for the Earth's blood using the regen mechanic.
Hm k maybe fast healing might be better lol i forget sometimes that regen normally is kinda like being immortal.
Your right, but keep in mind if given anything to powerful it may become to much.
Even compared to 3.5 Core, Complete Warrior is underwhelming.
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Thanks for the comments on Earth Blood.
Fast Healing is another good option, drawing the nutrients from the earth.
Having each use of the ability provide more total healing, spread over several rounds seems to reflect this 'suction', and leaves the character free to do other things, once activated. It allows for auto stabilization and recovery, if knocked unconscious, and ends bleed effects, if in combat with a foe with repeated use of such attacks.
If the effect increases to the above, are restrictions still applicable, e.g. must be in contact with the earth or stone? If somehow separated from the earth, what about the ability to still use the ability, but at the cost of cannibalizing one's own armour, reducing the hardness and/or hp by 1, to gain the healing?
What are the thoughts on reducing the action type to a swift action, so it can be invoked while fighting (as paladin's LoH was improved)?
And what about the option mentioned earlier, where the character can take longer, during downtime, to apply healing mud (as per the original write-up) to gain an increased effect?
This looks pretty good. Would you like to add this to the Pathfinder Database?
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This looks pretty good. Would you like to add this to the Pathfinder Database?
Thanks for the invite, though I want to nail down exactly how I'm changing it first.
Once we're done, I'll take up the offer.|
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I've solicited input from my own group, if they want to contribute.
They're the ones who'll have to adventure with the Stonelord in question, after all.
I don't want to pile on the goodies too far and leave anyone feeling left out (though I believe it would take a lot to get to that point).
To summarise the class, as written in Complete Warrior:
Requirements:
Race: Dwarf
BAB: +5
Skills: Craft (stone) 6 ranks, Speak Terran
Feats: Endurance
Special: A ritual to be carried out by the clan, involving being buried with precious gems and exhumed, after which the stonelord needs to carry a gem of the same type to access the class powers.
Class abilities:
Hit Die: d8
BAB: full
Saves: Good Fort, Poor Reflex and Will
Class Skills: Climb, Concentration, Craft, Knowledge (arch), Knowledge (dungeoneering), Profession, Spot, Survival
Skill Points/level: 2 + Int bonus
Level 1: Earth Blood; 1/day, st. action, heal 1d8+level.
Level 2: Stone Power; (see below).
Level 3: Stone Shape; 1/day, as spell.
Level 4: Stone Power; (see below).
Level 5: Meld Into Stone; 1/day, as spell.
Level 6: Stone Power; (see below).
Level 7: Stone Tell; 1/day, as spell.
Level 8: Stone Power; (see below).
Level 9: Earthquake; 1/day, as spell.
Level 10: Stone Power; (see below).
Stone Powers: One to be picked at levels 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10. All save DCs are based on Con. Caster level = class level.
Earth Grip: Hold Monster, if target on ground, 1/day.
Earth Magic: Sudden Maximise 1/day as free action.
Earth’s Endurance: +4 Con enhancement, 1 hour, 1/day.
Earth Strength: +4 Str enhancement, 1 hour, 1/day.
Earth Power: +2 to hit, +2d6 damage, 1 round, 1/day.
Earth Shadows: Free action to create figment, provides flanking, 1/day.
Gravity: Slow, as spell, 1/day.
Stoneskin: As spell, 1/day.
Summon Earth Elemental: As Summon Monster, of scaling spell level, 1/day.
And my impressions of the class, plus initial suggestions;
Initial impressions
Prerequisites: In keeping with the skill changes in PF, skill prerequisites should be reduced by 3 in the case of skills that would be class skills for the intended audience. As Craft is a class skill for most classes, and is a lesser-used skill, this should be reduced to 3 ranks.
The ritual is flavorful, and helps to define the class. However, it should be recognised that the entry gp cost, plus the requirement to rely on a focus to access all class abilities, are in excess of the normal requirements of a PrC, thus should result in greater rewards.
Class Abilities: Hit Die should be increased to d10, to follow current PF ‘Hit Die to BAB’ progression.
Class skills should be revised to match PF consolidated list. Knowledge (architecture) becomes Knowledge (engineering), Spot becomes Perception. Concentration to be removed. Further possible skills to be added; suggest Appraise, Disable Device, Heal, Knowledge (geog, hist, religion).
Skill points to remain the same for discretionary hobby skills, perhaps adding class bonus to some iconic skills, such as Appraise, Craft (as in Rogue Trapfinding, Ranger Tracking).
Special abilities almost all mimic low-level effects, once per day. The only abilities that can be accessed earlier than core casters are Earthquake (level 14 vs 15), and Hold Monster (level 7 vs 9). Everything else is gained after the point at which casters have already unlocked the same abilities, meaning the Stonelord is not in a position to shine in a unique role.
The Stone Powers at even levels are underpowered even at the minimum access level of 7+, even more so if gained at 9+, 11+, etc. Durations are low, and caster level lags by at least 5. Either the minimum class entry level needs to be reduced, or abilities need to be be improved. This can be done via stronger effects, increased uses/day, reducing actions to swift/immediate, increased duration, or tying caster level to character level or BAB.
The class is clearly not for full-casters (who gain nothing from it), yet there are few abilities that synergise with the existing martial abilities of non-casters or partial-casters. The class requires additional Exceptional abilities, either set, or available from a pool (as in Fighter Bonus Feats, Ranger Combat Styles or Rogue Talents), possibly gaining some of the steadfast abilities of the Dwarven Defender, since the class favours the underground.
As this is a race-specific class, and speaks of communing with ancestral allies, there is potential to expand on the theme of the lore-keeper and community leader. The class could be merged with other little-used Prestige Classes such as the Ollam.
The gem focus is currently a liability; this risk should come with a corresponding opportunity, to boost class abilities by absorbing or sacrificing precious materials, or an ability to craft crystal items. Some of the options in High Handcrafter may be in order?
The Dwarf Traits and Feats from PF (esp Dwarves of Golarion) could have their setting-specific names removed, and added as (set or optional) unlockable class abilities.
just bookmarking for now, will come back to this in a while.
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Been discussing this offline with one of the players from my group (not the one who'd be playing this PrClass). He hasn't been able to post at work, so I'll summarise the back and forth below:
Ok, so we're not going to add full caster levels to it then? I thought that was part of the stone lord. Never mind :-)
No, it’s never been a caster class. That’s why I think it should have more synergy with the martial classes who are (presumably) intended to take it.
If they’re going to lose later Fighter feats, favored enemies, rage, etc they need something that builds on what they got from level 1-5.
I looked at the abilities and thought "You're getting those late" and I was also underwhelmed by the 'standard abilities' of the class. I heartily endorse your specific recommendations, and I would add a few more, with the theory that the complexity of the class in play not be increased significantly - the stone lord is not a stony-mage or a 'stone' crusader a la tome of battle.
Totally. I don’t want play slowed down by having to prepare ‘spells’ from a long list every day.
Having to second-guess what you’ll most likely need is something that comes with long-term play, and doing homework between sessions.Some people don’t want to do that (I’m sure Cheryl doesn’t), so martial PCs tend to be simpler to appeal to them.
However, ‘simple’ doesn’t have to mean ‘under-powered’, or ‘lacking options’.
They should have bonuses that are always running, or spontaneous powers from a short list, that can react to the current situation.
Since it’s not a given that any PC taking this class is an existing caster, I’m willing to drop the Earth Magic (Sudden Maximise) ability, in favour of the specific class powers being scalable. That seems out of place, and may not even do anything for most who take the class.
Earth Shadows (the flanking figment) also seems out of place, this class does not shout ‘Illusionist’ to me. Better to have an actual elemental appear, via extra uses of the Summon ability.
I also believe the saves should follow the current PF PrC model of +1 to Good saves at level 1.
Being realistic about those gives us something to trade with.
Still need a capstone ability that isn’t just ‘one more of these early abilities’.
Anyway:
Give them a good will save.
Possibly, or some kind of Bravery ability that affects certain kinds of Will save, or increases Will saves, without increasing base Will?
Examples: the Fort bonus on the new Gunslinger and the 3.5 Scout. Swashbuckler 3.5 had a similarly worded ability for Reflex, but only if wearing light armor.
Special Abilities:
Earth blood should be equivalent to cure spells of the same character level: 3d8 +1d8/2 levels, Give it no cap and a swift activation and it keeps its place as a good SA.
Swift activation is good with me; it needs to be something they can do without having to break off. Many of the current Paladin spells assume the same.
Maybe grant a higher bonus, if actually taking time to apply an earth dressing, but at the cost of longer casting time? Therefore something for out of combat use. Spend a minute, maximise/empower the effect?
Multiple uses, rather than one use of increasing value? Similar to LOH, but without the option to pass on the healing? Or make healing others a later improvement?
Addition of rider effects, like Mercies?
Stone Shape is hard to figure out - to make it better, the easy option is to make it bigger in volume (the main issue with Stone Shape) but if that is done it could unbalance it quite easily. Ability to remould it again and again, but only in same volume/area as before perhaps? This is so late entry though, it may well be worth allowing vast volumes to be moulded (10 cf + 10 cf/level).
Multiple uses would result in the same larger volume, and allow it to be split throughout the day.
Meld into Stone make them able to see out, and allow a 'lord to prevent the destruction of his hiding place, by giving it hardness or saves versus any spells cast upon it. It's late entry again...
Hmm, maybe not truly ‘seeing’ out, but in conjuction with another ability of tremorsense…
What were the race/nation in the Belgariad, who did this?Stone Tell should allow a visual scene being played out based on the question asked. Easier to DM anyway :-)
I don’t know about a visual scene, but they should be able to gain more information, easier, if the earth spirits are starting from a friendly disposition.
Earthquake could make the DC go up with class level.
I haven’t thought that far ahead! I did wonder about some smaller seismic shocks becoming usable, prior to this point, so it’s not such a leap.
I’ve yet to scour the books for likely candidates. Shatter? modified Flame Strike [Stone Strike]? Damage being bludgeoning/divine, erupting upwards, instead of out of the sky?Extra Abilities:
Stonecunning should be given a boost (if already possessed) or granted (if not) a la Dwarf Paragon.
This is a Dwarf-only PrC,so there should be no-one who doesn’t have darkvision, unless (unknown to me) there’s some sub-race of ‘topsiders’ who’ve lost it.
The racial nature of the class means there should be no problem improving the standard racial abilities, without worrying about handing them to outsiders.On second thoughts, no, we will have to check the APG, to see if there are any of the iconic Dwarf powers that can be traded out, and give alternates for those corner cases?
Any spell from the Earth domain
A definite possibility. I’ll look into the sub-domains, too, as I don’t see why they should be reserved for clerics only. If people get sniffy about allowing access to subdomains, they can be re-skinned as all (Su) abilities.
Extra Stone Powers:
Give them tremorsense
Give them spider climb
As one of the buffet of (Su) abilities from the X/day pool? Rather than always on?
All stone powers should be at character level, and should be free actions to activate if touching stone and they should get 1 per level and be allowed to select them more than once to increase number of uses per day.
Character level, yes, to get past the caster level lag. Swift actions rather than free, limiting them to 1/round. Standard action if not touching natural rock/underground?
More uses/day (ki pool-style mechanic?), as spell level low in comparison to character/caster level. Free choice from list of abilities unlocked, so abilities not helpful to current situation not wasted at end of day.
That's all I've got. See you tomorrow!
Thanks; we're getting somewhere!
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Further suggestions from Nermal, made off-site:
Increase Will save to Good
Level 1 Earth Blood to be 1d6+Wis bonus, 1/day +1 every 3 levels.
Level 1 Earth Skin DR3/-
Level 5 Stone Glide, 1/day, as the Earth Elemental ability.
Level 9 Earth Skin increase to DR 5/-.Stone Power: Stone Spike. Immediate action, grow stone spike from floor or wall; ranged touch to hit, damage 1d6+Wis bonus, 3/day.
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More thumbs-up from the other players in the same game, who all seem to have developed a phobia of posting here. A bit less Call of Duty and WoW seems in order....
I agree that Earth Blood should be better. Maybe have it a level behind the equivalent cure spell but can be used multiple times per day 3 + Con?
I'm not that familiar with the class but I like Matt's ideas about remoulding stone shape.
Other ideas could be increased darkvision or stability or other dwarfish traits (an extra +1 vs magic, poison or both).
John
I've been thrashing some ideas out, so I think we're nearly there.
Since this isn't dead, maybe I will actually go look at it today and make a suggestion.
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No problem; I'd like some of the pro-martial crowd to comment.
I am among those who roll my eyes when I see 'Martial PCs can't have nice things', but I'm not as vocal about it as, say CoDZilla.
As long as everyone can avoid phrases like 'epic fail', I'm open to suggestions.
There will be a revised version going up soon; I'm wrestling with the wording of some new powers, to give them options to synergise with whatever class they used to qualify.
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Class abilities:
Hit Die: d10.
BAB: full.
Saves: Good Fort, Poor Reflex and Will.
Class Skills: Appraise, Climb, Craft (stone or metal), Knowledge (dungeoneering), Knowledge (engineering), Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (religion), Perception, Profession, Survival.
Skill Points/level: 2 + Int bonus.
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Class Skills continued...
Level 1: Depth Sense, Extended Stonecunning, Earth Blood (1d6, 3+Con/day)
Level 2: Deep Guardian, Stone Power; (see below).
Level 3: Earth Blood (2d6), Stone Shape; 3/day, as spell.
Level 4: Earth Blood (+1/day), Improved Stonecunning (+1), Stone Power; (see below).
Level 5: Damage Reduction 1, Earth Blood (3d6), Meld Into Stone; 3/day, as spell.
Level 6: Strength of the Land, Stone Power; (see below).
Level 7: Damage Reduction 2, Earth Blood (4d6, +1/day), Improved Stonecunning (+2), Stone Tell; 1/day, as spell.
Level 8: Stone Power; (see below).
Level 9: Earth Blood (5d6) Earthquake; 1/day, as spell.
Level 10: Damage Reduction 3, Earth Blood (+1/day), Improved Stonecunning (+3), Stone Power; (see below).
Damage Reduction (Ex): At 5th level, a stonelord gains DR 1/—. At 7th level, this DR increases to 2/—, and at 10th level it increases to 3/—. Damage reduction from different sources does not stack; however, if the stonelord has levels in another class which provides DR, she may count half her levels of stonelord toward that other class to calculate the total level of DR (e.g. a Barbarian 7/Stonelord 6 may use 3 of those levels to qualify for the DR 2/- of a Barbarian level 10).
Deep Guardian (Ex): The subtle power of the deep places of the world flows within the stonelord, and grants her mastery of summoning beings of earth and stone. Any creature she conjures with a summon spell that has the earth subtype or a burrow speed gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and a +1 enhancement bonus to natural AC for the duration of the spell that summoned it. If the stonelord already has this trait from another source, the benefits stack with this.
Depth Sense (Ex): The stonelord becomes aware if she ascends or descends, and learns to calculate her approximate depth underground at will (to within +/-10%). This takes one minute of concentration at level 1, reducing to a full-round action at level 3, a standard action at level 5, and a move action at level 7. At level 9, it is a free action. This ability cannot be used if the stonelord is above the ground, or not touching earth or rock (such as falling, flying or levitating).
Earth Blood (Su): The stonelord is able to absorb the minerals of the earth into her body, to repair and heal damaged flesh. As long as the stonelord is in a natural cave, on uncovered rock or earth, or adjacent to dwarven architecture, she can take a swift action, to heal 1d6+(Con bonus) hit points per use.
This ability may be used (3+Wis mod) times per day (minimum 3), with an extra use/day at level 4 and every 3 levels thereafter.
The healing gained rises by +1d6 at level 3, and at every 2 levels thereafter.
Extended Stonecunning (Ex): The stonelord’s ritual burial and rebirth gives her increased awareness of the thought processes of earth creatures. Her stonecunning ability extends its bonus to all on Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks made to recognise or influence creatures of the Earth subtype. Knowledge checks for such creatures may be made untrained. ¹
Improved Stonecunning (Ex): The stonelord’s stonecunning bonus improves by +1, including effects covered by extended stonecunning. This bonus improves by a further +1 at levels 7 and 10.¹
Strength of the Land (Su): The stonelord is able to tap into the living energy of the world to shatter lesser magic. She gains a +1 trait bonus on caster level checks while touching the ground or unworked stone. This includes dispel checks and checks to overcome spell resistance. If the stonelord already has this trait from another source, their effects stack.
¹ If stonecunning has been replaced by the stonesinger alternate racial trait, this ability is altered, to increase the effective caster level of Earth spells by a further +1.
Still working on changes to Stone Tell, Earthquake and the Stone Powers.
My ideas
Hit Die: d10
BAB: Same
Saves: same
Reqs: same except following. Replace Craft (stoneworking) 6 ranks with Craft (stoneworking) 4 ranks
Skills: Appraise, Craft, Climb, Knowledge (dungeoneering), Knowledge (engineering), Profession, Perception, Survival
Points/level: same
Level 1: Earth's Blood, Enhanced Stonecunning
Level 2: Stone Power
Level 3: Skin like Stone
Level 4: Stone Power, Passwall
Level 5: Greater Stonecunning
Level 6: Stone Power
Level 7:
Level 8: Stone Power
Level 9: World Wave
Level 10: Tremorsense (30'), Stone Power
Enhanced Stonecunning: The stonelord receive a +6 bonus on Perception checks to notice unusual stonework. This bonus replaces the stonecunning ability’s normal bonus on Perception checks. If the stonelord does not have stonecunning, this ability grants it.
Earth's Blood: A number of times per day equal to the stonelord's class level, he can heal his wounds using a clump of mud. This ability heals 1d8 + his Constitution bonus. This increases by 1d8 every three levels after first.
Greater Stonecunning: The stonelord receive a +6 bonus on Perception checks to notice unusual stonework. This bonus replaces the stonecunning ability’s normal bonus on Perception checks.
Skin like Stone: A stonelord's bond with stone begins to manifest itself physically granting him Damage Reduction/Adamantine equal to twice his stonelord level.
Stone Power: At every even-numbered level, the stonelord may choose one of the following abilities. Each stone power may only be chosen once. To use any ability, a stonelord must be able to present his totem gem.
- Earth Affinity: The stonelord gains a +1 circumstance bonus to caster level when casting spells with the earth descriptor or to class level when using granted powers of the Earth domain, the bloodline powers of the earth elemental bloodline, and revelations of the oracle’s stone mystery. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th level. This ability is inherent upon choosing it.
- Earth's Endurance: The stonelord gains a +4 circumstance bonus to Constitution for a number of rounds per day equal to his stonelord level + his Constitution modifier. This is not increased by any temporary increases to Constitution, including this ability. These rounds need not be consecutive. Using this ability is a standard action.
- Earth's Strength: The stonelord gains a +4 circumstance bonus to Strength for a number of rounds per day equal to his stonelord level + his Constitution modifier. This is not increased by any temporary increases to Constitution. These rounds need not be consecutive. Using this ability is a standard action.
- Summon Earth Elemental: A stonelord may summon an earth elemental as if by the summon monster spell a number of times per day equal to 1/3 his stonelord level (minimum 1) for a number of rounds equal to his stonelord level. The earth elemental summoned varies by level as follows: levels 2-3: Medium; levels 4-5: Large; levels 6-7: Huge; levels 8-9: Greater; level 10: Elder
- Form of Earth: A stonelord may assume the form of an earth elemental as if by the elemental body spell with a caster level equal to his stonelord level for a number of times per day equal to 1/3 his stonelord level (minimum 1). At levels 2-3, this acts as elemental body i; at levels 4-5, this acts as elemental body ii; at levels 6-7, this acts as elemental body iii; at levels 8 and above, this acts as elemental body iv.
- Earth Excavation: Once per round, the stonelord may use earth excavation as the spell with a caster level equal to his stonelord level.
- Earthen Armor: The stonelord gains a +1 circumstance bonus to Natural Armor when for a number of rounds per day equal to his stonelord level + his Constitution modifier. This bonus increases +1 for every 2 stonelord levels. This is not increased by any temporary increases to Constitution, including this ability. These rounds need not be consecutive. Using this ability is a standard action.
Passwall: A number of times per day equal to his stonelord level, the stonelord may use passwall as the spell, except as listed here, with a caster level equal to his stonelord level. The stonelord may only use this ability on walls constructed of stone.
World Wave: Once per day, the stonelord may use world wave as the spell with a caster level equal to his stonelord level.
Could use more work.
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Enhanced Stonecunning: The stonelord receive a +6 bonus on Perception checks to notice unusual stonework. This bonus replaces the stonecunning ability’s normal bonus on Perception checks. If the stonelord does not have stonecunning, this ability grants it.
Greater Stonecunning: The stonelord receive a +6 bonus on Perception checks to notice unusual stonework. This bonus replaces the stonecunning ability’s normal bonus on Perception checks.
I'm not seeing a difference to these two abilities; has one been left in from a previous draft?
Given that the class is Dwarf-only, most entrants will have stonecunning by default. The only exception I can currently see are those who may have traded it out for stonesinging, which I allowed for in my footnote. A bonus caster level to Earth spells would seem a small compensation for freezing caster level in general.
As more racial archetypes are created, it may be there are more that trade away the stonecunnning, and need this class amending.
I'm not seeing a difference to these two abilities; has one been left in from a previous draft?Enhanced Stonecunning: The stonelord receive a +6 bonus on Perception checks to notice unusual stonework. This bonus replaces the stonecunning ability’s normal bonus on Perception checks. If the stonelord does not have stonecunning, this ability grants it.
Greater Stonecunning: The stonelord receive a +6 bonus on Perception checks to notice unusual stonework. This bonus replaces the stonecunning ability’s normal bonus on Perception checks.
Enhanced should be +4. I forgot to change it on copy and past.
Given that the class is Dwarf-only, most entrants will have stonecunning by default. The only exception I can currently see are those who may have traded it out for stonesinging, which I allowed for in my footnote.
Which is why I added Enhanced Stonecunning instead of making Improved Stonecunning (the feat) the requirement instead of Endurence.
A bonus caster level to Earth spells would seem a small compensation for freezing caster level in general.
Then remove Enhanced Stonecunning, change the requirement from Endurance to Improved Stonecunning, and replace Earth Magic with something else.
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Earth's Blood: A number of times per day equal to the stonelord's class level, he can heal his wounds using a clump of mud. This ability heals 1d8 + his Constitution bonus. This increases by 1d8 every three levels after first.
Yours tops out at 10 x 4d8+(Con bonus), mine tops out at (6+Con bonus) x (5d6+Con bonus).
I think we're both in the same ballpark, topping out at an average of over 200hp/day at max level.Before anyone freaks at this, this is way less than a paladin would be healing at level 15, or a channeling cleric (which is hard to gauge, since it depends how many PCs are in the party, and if they can bunch up each time).
It also cannot be used on anyone else, so may go to waste.
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Skin like Stone: A stonelord's bond with stone begins to manifest itself physically granting him Damage Reduction/Adamantine equal to twice his stonelord level.
That's rather powerful, if it's permanent.
Stoneskin is an ablative effect, that has to be renewed.While many intelligent enemies at this level may have adamantine weapons, or weapons with a large enough plus (+4) to negate DR, having DR of 6+ from level 8+ will make the character effectively immune to many opponents.
It's very swingy, resulting in high DR, or no DR at all.
I've gone for untyped DR, but lower, which gives its benefit across the board. It also matches the mechanic of the barbarian and stalwart defender.
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Earth's Endurance: The stonelord gains a +4 circumstance bonus to Constitution for a number of rounds per day equal to his stonelord level + his Constitution modifier. This is not increased by any temporary increases to Constitution, including this ability. These rounds need not be consecutive. Using this ability is a standard action.
Earth's Strength: The stonelord gains a +4 circumstance bonus to Strength for a number of rounds per day equal to his stonelord level + his Constitution modifier. This is not increased by any temporary increases to Constitution. These rounds need not be consecutive. Using this ability is a standard action.
I like the freedom to break up the duration throughout the day.
Is circumstance a valid bonus type for this sort of effect?From the list of bonus types, I can only really see alchemical, enhancement, sacred and profane as fitting the theme. Is this simply a way to ensure it will stack with most typical buffs? If so, why not make it untyped?
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Form of Earth: A stonelord may assume the form of an earth elemental as if by the elemental body spell with a caster level equal to his stonelord level for a number of times per day equal to 1/3 his stonelord level (minimum 1). At levels 2-3, this acts as elemental body i; at levels 4-5, this acts as elemental body ii; at levels 6-7, this acts as elemental body iii; at levels 8 and above, this acts as elemental body iv.
Nice; I was trying to decide on an appropriate level for unlocking earth glide, and whether that would be a good enough ability to grant on its own merit.
This does that, among other things, as a level 4 spell.
Duration 1 minute/level, if based on class. This should be enough to use this for getting where you want, and presumably having an encounter with whoever's there.
I assume there's no problem with the dwarf getting smaller at levels 2-3; this can be explained by increasing density.
Elemental body 2 gives larger bonuses, Elemental body 3 is where the benefits really start to come into play, granting immunity to bleed, crits and precision damage, along with affecting Dex and Con, plus increased reach.
Elemental Body 4 comes with more reach and DR 5/-, both of which are useful.
Open question to anyone reading; is duration based on class level enough for this ability, or does it need to be based on total character level? I'm easy either way, especially if it can be broken into multiple uses/day.
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Back to my own suggestions:
Going through the various Stone Powers (the ones picked at even levels), I believe we need to drastically improve Earth Power (+2 to hit, +2d6 damage, for 1 round/day).
This is on a par with the 3.5 version of Smite Evil, in that it has limited uses per day, bonuses too small to be relevant, and is wasted on a miss.
I think the version below is more suitable:
Earth Power (Sp): The stonelord is able to enhance her weapon as a standard action by calling upon the aid of an earth spirit for 1 minute per stonelord level.
When called, this spirit grants the weapon a +1 enhancement bonus. For every three class levels, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +3 at 9th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5, or they can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: axiomatic, corrosive, corrosive burst, cunning, defending, flaming, flaming burst, grayflame, or keen. If flaming or flaming burst are chosen, the spirit causes the weapon to shed light as a torch.
Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property's cost (see Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities). These bonuses are added to any properties the weapon already has, but duplicate abilities do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. These bonuses apply to only one end of a double weapon.
This spirit cannot simultaneously inhabit a weapon with a similar ability active, such as the paladin’s divine bond.
A stonelord can use this ability once per day, plus one additional time per day for every four levels, to a total of three times per day at 8th level.
The bonus and properties granted by the spirit are determined when the spirit is called and cannot be changed until the spirit is called again. The earth spirit imparts no bonuses if the weapon is held by anyone other than the stonelord but resumes giving bonuses if returned to her hand. If a weapon bonded with an earth spirit is destroyed, the stonelord loses the use of this ability for 30 days, or until she gains a level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the stonelord takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.
It scales at the same rate as Divine Bond, but grants a different list of qualities, and cannot be stacked. If one were to create a Paladin/Stonelord, they would have separate uses of each ability.
That's rather powerful, if it's permanent.
Stoneskin is an ablative effect, that has to be renewed.
While many intelligent enemies at this level may have adamantine weapons, or weapons with a large enough plus (+4) to negate DR, having DR of 6+ from level 8+ will make the character effectively immune to many opponents.It's very swingy, resulting in high DR, or no DR at all.
Isn't that the point of any types DR?
Just increase the BAB to qualify for the class to +7, that should better balance it. Though the lame Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength wanna-be's could be improved then.|
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We're playtesting this now, and the Earth Power weapon-bond ability has had a minor change to the wording, to make the advancement more intuitive and the text flow better.
Both the uses/day, and the enhancement bonus, now scale up at level 4 and 8; so if it's taken at level 2, it's one use/day, of a +1-equivalent enhancement. At level 4, this becomes 2 uses of a +2, and at level 8, it's 3 uses of a +3.
I've also created a similar power that improves armor properties, and need to think of an evocative name for it.
The player has had the benefit of the Extended Stonecunning applications, having successfully identified a group of xorn, recognised they weren't an immediate threat, and made friendly contact with them, saving the group a lot of grief and getting useful recon. This isn't a diplomatic PC by any means, but the improved +3 bonus to relevant skills made the difference.
Stonelord
requirement: BAB +7, endurance, knowledge(dungeoneering) 6 ranks
level 1 Earth Blood, Power of Stone
level 2
level 3 stone shape / grapple
level 4
level 5 Stone Form
level 6
level 7 stone tell
level 8
level 9 earth quake
level 10
Power of Stone - The stonelord has a number of power points equal to his class level + constitution modifier to determine how often he can use his special abilities.
Earth blood(Su) - heal himself 5 * class level when in contact with or close proximity to earth or stone, the stone or earth must have a volume of at least as large as the stonelord to have any effect. (1 powerpoint)
Stone Shape(Su) - as the spell, the stonelord can use this ability to grapple up to 1 medium creature per level within 30 feet, encasing their feet in stone and imobilizing them with a grapple check using BAB + con modifier as their CMB, Large creatures count as 2, Huge 4, gargantuan 8 medium sized creatures for this purpose. They can break free by making a DC 20 + con modifier str check or by attacking the stone holding them, it has hardness 8 and hitpoints equal to the stonelord's class level + con modifier multiplied by 10. (1 powerpoint)
Stone Form(Su) - up to 1 minute per class level the stonelord can assume stone form, this has the same effect as elemental body I, at 7th level this affect the stonelord as elemental body II and at 9th elemental body III, this does not change the stonelord's size or general shape, though he does appear made out off stone or earth, the stonelord can continue to use armor, weapons and other gear as usual they do not meld with his form. The stonelord's and what he is wearing or holding does not hamper his earthglide ability as long as it does not exceed his carrying capacity. (2 powerpoint)
Stone tell(Su) - as the spell using the stonelord's level to determine effective casterlevel. (2 powerpoints)
Earth Quake(Su) - as the spell using the stonelord's level to determine effective casterlevel. This ability uses the stonelord's constitution modifier to determine save DC's. (3 powerpoints)
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Haven't given it much thought, maybe there is something usable in there