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Possible Bestiary 2 PDF errata / problems


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Axiomite, page 36

Other than the already reported CMB and CMD that should be respectively +15 and 30, the Axiomite is missing its fourth class skill due to Outsiders' varied nature.
To make the fix, skills could be changed as: Knowledge (any two) +15, Knowledge (planes and any other one) +18.


Azata, Brijidine, page 37

1) It has vulnerability to cold due to fire subtype, but there's also listed a cold resistance 10 (Azata subtype' standard, but usually the immunities or vulnerabilities of singular creatures override the resistances of their subtypes). Is it correct? It is quite unusual.

2) It's missing its fourth class skill due to Outsiders' varied nature (the other three, math-wise, are Escape Artist, Heal and Knowledge [nature]). Easy fix: make Perform a class skill and thus bring it to +28.

3) The Entrap special attack doesn't specify the hp (and eventual hardness) of the entrapping lava.


Astral Wanderer wrote:

Angel, Movanic Deva, page 28

Sense Motive and Perception bonuses are 2 points lower than they should be.
Correcting (remember to correct Perception in the Senser entry too):

Sense Motive +18 (12 ranks, +3 Wis, +3 class)
Perception +22 (12 ranks, +3 Wis, +3 class, +4 racial)

Update: having the Aquatic subtype, the Monadic Deva gets Swim as an additional class skill, which brings the total to Swim +22, since it has ranks on it.


Bat, Skaveling, page 42

chopswil wrote:

Bat, Skaveling p. 42, incorrect CMD

CMD = 10 + BAB + StrMod + DexMod + SizeMod + DodgeBonus
26 = 10 + 6 + 5 + 3 + 1 + 1

Stat Block CMD = 25

Neither has Dodge been added to AC.

Corrct AC:

AC 19, touch 13, flat-footed 15 (+3 Dex, +6 natural, -1 size, +1 dodge)


Blindheim, page 46

Minor lack: since the creature has a climb speed, maybe its Climb bonus (+1 Str, +8 racial) should be listed in the stat block.
Given its nature, perhaps Stealth should be added too (+2 Dex, +4 size).


Keen Scent, page 298

Typo: in the Format entry, there's written "keen senses" instead of "keen scent".


Blink Dog, page 47

The +4 (racial?) bonus to Survival when tracking by scent is not listed as a racial modifier. If it's not racial, what is it from?

Grand Lodge

Shield Archon - Page 31

The Shield Archon's greater teleport only works with itself and 50 lbs. of objects. Doesn't that mean it'd leave its armor behind, since its Large full plate armor weighs 100 lbs?

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:
Astral Wanderer wrote:

Angel, Movanic Deva, page 28

Sense Motive and Perception bonuses are 2 points lower than they should be.
Correcting (remember to correct Perception in the Senser entry too):

Sense Motive +18 (12 ranks, +3 Wis, +3 class)
Perception +22 (12 ranks, +3 Wis, +3 class, +4 racial)

Update: having the Aquatic subtype, the Monadic Deva gets Swim as an additional class skill, which brings the total to Swim +22, since it has ranks on it.

Here's another brain bender. Since this creature is supposedly an aquatic creature, it should receive a swim speed, based on the description of the Aquatic subtype. This creature, however, doesn't have one listed. If this is an error and it was intended to, then it's Swim skill would go up another +8 for having a swim speed, bringing it to +30.


Strife2002 wrote:


Here's another brain bender. Since this creature is supposedly an aquatic creature, it should receive a swim speed, based on the description of the Aquatic subtype. This creature, however, doesn't have one listed. If this is an error and it was intended to, then it's Swim skill would go up another +8 for having a swim speed, bringing it to +30.

Aquatic subtype says that creatures possessing it always have a swim speed, so I don't think the Monadic Deva was purposedly left without.


vip00 wrote:

p. 51 Carnivourous blob

Melee slam +17 (8d6+19 and grab)

Absorb Flesh (Ex) A carnivorous blob cannot
eat plant matter or inorganic matter, but it
devours living flesh with a voracious speed by
dealing Constitution drain on creatures it
slams or constricts.

Melee damage should likely read (8d6+19 plus X Con drain and grab)

I assume the amount of con drain is the same as the constrict (1d4), but it could vary.

On the opposite side, I think that "slam" in the Absorb Flesh text should be removed. Other than the fact that the Con drain hasn't been reported in the slam entry, I think that from a "flavour" point of view it's hard that it can absorb flesh with a swift and violent contact such as that of a slam. And from a technical point of view, given the Blob's Reactive Strike ability, being able to drain with mere slams would be devastating and, as such, unbalanced.


Catoblepas, page 52

1) The listed DC for Stench Aura is 17, as if Charisma-based; it should be Constitution-based, for a total of DC 23.

2) Not exactly an error, but a personal thought: why should the Catoblepas take Improved Critical on its gore attack when its bite deals more damage? It would make sense to me if it had the Powerful Charge ability, but since it doesn't have it...


Centipede, Giant Whiptail, page 53

The stat-block reports it as being CR 3 and granting 600 XP, but that is the XP value of CR 2; CR 3 grants 800.

The Giant Whiptail Centipede is exactly what comes by applying the rules reported in the first Bestiary's Giant Centipede description, and those rules give it as a CR 2, so I suppose the error is in the CR while the XP is correct.
Yet, the Whiptail in Bestiary II has the Compression special quality and an additional tripping-tail attack (altough it "loses" the +2 racial bonus on poison DC), so dunno if it should effectively be CR 3 and the XP incorrect.
(In the "Monsters by CR" appendix, it is reported under the CR 3 list.)


Chaos Beast, page 54

It apparently has mouth(s) and has Int 10; virtually, it could speak, but doesn't have a Languages entry. Is this on purpose or an error?


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Athach, page 33

I can't figure out it's racial modifiers in any way that makes sense, unless one of them's odd, which would be unusual.

Original: Str 32, Dex 13, Con 25, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 6

Backing out Huge: Str 16, Dex 17, Con 17, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 6

The problem is, now I want to put the +3 ability bump from 14HD somewhere, and no matter what I do, I've got either 4 even and 2 odd abilities, or 4 odd and two even abilities.

This is a problem because with the normal distribution of 11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10, one of the racial modifiers will be odd. Obviously it is allowable, but it's not typical.

Ignoring the +3, we've got:

Adjustments: Str +6, Dex +6, Con +6, Int -4, Wis +2, Cha -4.

I'm inclined to make the racial adjustments the same except with Dex and Con +4 instead of +6 and just call it an error, but maybe someone can see something I missed ...


Charybdis, page 56

The CMB and CMD entries are missing the increased values to or against bull rush due to Improved Bull Rush.


gbonehead wrote:

Athach, page 33

I can't figure out it's racial modifiers in any way that makes sense, unless one of them's odd, which would be unusual.

I guess I'm being obtuse, but what's there to figure out? Str +22, Dex +2, Con +14, Int -4, Wis +2, Cha -4. 10/11/11/11/10/10. End of story.


Astral Wanderer wrote:

Charybdis, page 56

The CMB and CMD entries are missing the increased values to or against bull rush due to Improved Bull Rush.

Do they ever do that with any combat maneuver other than grapple, and maybe disarm? I haven't noticed it. If they're supposed to, then there are dozens of more errata to add.

A quick search turned up 40 critters with improved bull rush; I didn't notice any that had a bonus added to CMB or CMD because of that. And that's just for bull rush.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Distant Scholar wrote:
gbonehead wrote:

Athach, page 33

I can't figure out it's racial modifiers in any way that makes sense, unless one of them's odd, which would be unusual.

I guess I'm being obtuse, but what's there to figure out? Str +22, Dex +2, Con +14, Int -4, Wis +2, Cha -4. 10/11/11/11/10/10. End of story.

You're ignoring the size modifiers and the +3 to ability scores due to having 14HD, both of which become relevant if you advance it (or reduce its HD).


Crawling Hand and Giant Crawling Hand, page 59

Both do not have "grab (+size+)" in their Special Attacks entry.
The diminutive hand has it in its Special Abilities entry, in the form of descriptive text, but the giant one doesn't have it at all (I suppose it should be up to Gargantuan size).

Also, the giant hand lacks the Strangle special attack; this could be on purpose, but I don't see why.


Astradaemon, page 63

Other than this;

1) Listed Concentration bonus is +20, but should be +24 (17 CL, +7 Cha).

2) Skills:
A) Acrobatics has not been considered a class skill, but it could. The 4 additional class skills for outsider's varied nature are Escape Artist, Intimidate and Survival. The 4th one is missing, and it could be Acrobatics which would then go to +27 (+51 to jump).
B) Fly is listed as +11, but should be +9 (+7 Dex, +4 maneuverability, -2 size).

3) Devour Soul special attack's DC is listed as 27, but should be 25 (10, +8 for 1/2 HD, + 7 Cha).


Cacodaemon, page 64

Listed Concentration bonus is +6, but should be +7 (6 CL, +1 Cha).

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Centipede, Giant Whiptail, page 53

The stat-block reports it as being CR 3 and granting 600 XP, but that is the XP value of CR 2; CR 3 grants 800.

The Giant Whiptail Centipede is exactly what comes by applying the rules reported in the first Bestiary's Giant Centipede description, and those rules give it as a CR 2, so I suppose the error is in the CR while the XP is correct.
Yet, the Whiptail in Bestiary II has the Compression special quality and an additional tripping-tail attack (altough it "loses" the +2 racial bonus on poison DC), so dunno if it should effectively be CR 3 and the XP incorrect.
(In the "Monsters by CR" appendix, it is reported under the CR 3 list.)

I brought this up earlier in the thread and I think the response from one reader was that when looking over its abilities, it's more likely a CR 3 creature. I think I agree.


gbonehead wrote:

Athach, page 33

I can't figure out it's racial modifiers in any way that makes sense, unless one of them's odd, which would be unusual.

Distant Scholar wrote:

I guess I'm being obtuse, but what's there to figure out? Str +22, Dex +2, Con +14, Int -4, Wis +2, Cha -4. 10/11/11/11/10/10. End of story.

gbonehead wrote:
You're ignoring the size modifiers and the +3 to ability scores due to having 14HD, both of which become relevant if you advance it (or reduce its HD).

I suppose I am. But why does it matter? If the size changes (up or down), they have a list of modifiers for that. If the HD change, you can freely pick a stat to reduce (or add to). Why does this rise to the level of errata?


Astral Wanderer wrote:

Azata, Brijidine, page 37

1) It has vulnerability to cold due to fire subtype, but there's also listed a cold resistance 10 (Azata subtype' standard, but usually the immunities or vulnerabilities of singular creatures override the resistances of their subtypes). Is it correct? It is quite unusual.

The "subtype to one gives vulnerability to the other" is legacy from 3.5. It was brought up in one of these threads. Sean K Reynolds weighed in that this was no longer the case and when someone pointed out the relevant text in the PRD he said (and I am coming as close to a direct quote as I can get) "Oh I am so errataing the hell out of that!"

I can't cite the source for you, unfortunately.


Distant Scholar wrote:
gbonehead wrote:

Athach, page 33

I can't figure out it's racial modifiers in any way that makes sense, unless one of them's odd, which would be unusual.

Distant Scholar wrote:

I guess I'm being obtuse, but what's there to figure out? Str +22, Dex +2, Con +14, Int -4, Wis +2, Cha -4. 10/11/11/11/10/10. End of story.

gbonehead wrote:
You're ignoring the size modifiers and the +3 to ability scores due to having 14HD, both of which become relevant if you advance it (or reduce its HD).
I suppose I am. But why does it matter? If the size changes (up or down), they have a list of modifiers for that. If the HD change, you can freely pick a stat to reduce (or add to). Why does this rise to the level of errata?

I am pretty sure that baseline creatures with racial hit dice don't get ability score increases due to their inherent hit dice. That would mean there is no "+3 to ability scores due to having 14HD". The 14HD and the statistical modifiers derived by Distant Scholar are just independent, inherent traits of being a by-the-book Athach.

Now when adding hit dice later, every 4th one does indeed grant an ability increase, but that's a different matter.


Daemon, Derghodaemon, page 66

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

The derghodaemon has a +4 racial modifier not listed in its printed stat block (but it is present in the build spreadsheet), so its skill listing is correct.

I take it that the above was meant to be a +8 racial modifier, since the Derghodaemon's Perception bonus is the only one that exceeds ranks + class skill + ability score modifier, and exceeds it of 8 points, not 4.

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Daemon, Derghodaemon, page 66

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

The derghodaemon has a +4 racial modifier not listed in its printed stat block (but it is present in the build spreadsheet), so its skill listing is correct.

I take it that the above was meant to be a +8 racial modifier, since the Derghodaemon's Perception bonus is the only one that exceeds ranks + class skill + ability score modifier, and exceeds it of 8 points, not 4.

I figured it just got added twice or something. Since Sean said it's a +4 in the build spreadsheet, I just edited my copy to say that Perception is actually at a +24.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Drakir2010 wrote:
Distant Scholar wrote:
gbonehead wrote:

Athach, page 33

I can't figure out it's racial modifiers in any way that makes sense, unless one of them's odd, which would be unusual.

Distant Scholar wrote:

I guess I'm being obtuse, but what's there to figure out? Str +22, Dex +2, Con +14, Int -4, Wis +2, Cha -4. 10/11/11/11/10/10. End of story.

gbonehead wrote:
You're ignoring the size modifiers and the +3 to ability scores due to having 14HD, both of which become relevant if you advance it (or reduce its HD).
I suppose I am. But why does it matter? If the size changes (up or down), they have a list of modifiers for that. If the HD change, you can freely pick a stat to reduce (or add to). Why does this rise to the level of errata?

I am pretty sure that baseline creatures with racial hit dice don't get ability score increases due to their inherent hit dice. That would mean there is no "+3 to ability scores due to having 14HD". The 14HD and the statistical modifiers derived by Distant Scholar are just independent, inherent traits of being a by-the-book Athach.

Now when adding hit dice later, every 4th one does indeed grant an ability increase, but that's a different matter.

Huh. Good point. Wish they'd said that somewhere though.

Goes off to see if the bestiary is consistent in this regard.


Daemon, Hydrodaemon, page 67

1) Sleep Spittle's Will save DC is listed as 17 and Constitution-based; actually, if it is Con-based it should be 19 (10, +5 for 1/2 HD, +4 Con). To be DC 17 it sould be Charisma-based.

2) While I understand why it has been listed normally, I'll note that the effective attack bonus for the Spittle ranged touch attack is always +12, since the Hydrodaemon has the Point-Blank Shot feat, which covers 30 ft. and the spit can only reach 20 ft.


Daemon, Leukodaemon, page 68

1)

chopswil wrote:

Daemon, Leukodaemon p. 68, CMB & CMD incorrect

CMB = BAB + Str mod
17 = 10 + 7

Stat block says CMB +15

CMD incorrect because CMB incorrect

Actually, CMB is 18, there's an additional +1 for Large size. CMD is 35, as a consequence.

2) About the skill issue, simply consider Survival a class skill as it should be, with that +3 bring it to +18 and everything goes right.

3)

kixor wrote:

Leukodaemon (pg 68) -

Natural weapon damages match creature size, however the longbow damage is listed as per a medium longbow (1d8). No SQ are listed, meaning it does not have the Undersized Weapons SQ and should wield a large longbow.

Also, although for most readers it may be clear even if it is not written, the +7 Str bonus of the composite longbow is not listed in the Ranged attacks entry.

Plus, the bow isn't mentioned at all in the Treasure entry.

4) What is the DC (listed as 19) of the Contagion special attack based upon? If it was Con, it would be 10, +5 for 1/2 HD, +6 Con = 21; if it was Cha, it would be 15 +3 Cha = 18; if it was as a spell-like ability DC it would be 10, +4 spell level, +3 Cha = 17, like the effective Contagion spell-like ability the Leukodaemon possesses.
Is there an error or is the DC just fixed?


Daemon, Meladaemon, page 69

Other than the already mentioned errors in CMB and CMD:

1) Listed DCs for Disease and Consumptive Aura are 23, but should be 22 (10, +7 for 1/2 HD, +5 Con).

2) About the skills issue, assign to the Meladaemon the good maneuverability for flying (as noted previously in this thread), 10 ranks in Fly, and everything becomes right (Fly bonus becomes +21).


Daemon, Olethrodaemon, page 70

Other than the already mentioned error in CMD:

1) The Summon spell-like ability doesn't specify the level (9, I suppose).

2) Listed Trample DC is 22, but should be 32 (10, +10 for 1/2 HD, +12 Str).

3) It is not specified which stat is the Drain Soul ability based upon for the purpose of removing negative levels. From the listed 32 DC I suppose it it Strength-based.


Daemon, Piscodaemon, page 72

The bonuses to hit with claws and tentacles are both 1 point too high (listed as +19 and +17).
Claws +18 (+11 BAB, +7 Str)
Tentacles +16 (+11 BAB, +7 Str, -2 secondary attack with Multiattack feat)


Daemon, Purrodaemon, page 73

Other than previously reported errors:

1) Save bonuses are incorrect, and it's impossible to determine which ones are the two good saves and which is the bad one.
They are listed as Fort +16, Ref +12, Will +10; removing the Con, Dex and Wis modifiers (+10, +6 and +4), we have a base of Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +6.
Two of them (Fort and Ref?) should be +11, and there is also the resistance bonus from Unholy Aura to add.

If we consider Fort and Ref as the two good saves, we have a total (Unholy Aura included) of Fort +25, Ref +21, Will +14.

2) The halberd damage is missing its critical data (19-20/x3).


Dark Slayer, page 75

Removing the stat modifiers from the save bonuses, it seems that all of them have been considered bad saves.
Following the guidelines of Humanoid type and of the Dark Folk in the first Bestiary, the Ref save should be the good one, for a total of +8.


chopswil wrote:

Demon, Omox p. 79, skills ranks exceeded, need more points; missing mod?

I had to give 16 ranks to swim to make it work but that can't be, only 13 HD. If I take a class skill from somewhere else for Swim there is still an issue, I'm 3 point over.

skill points = 104
use 107

Acrobatics +23 = +13 ranks, +7 Dex, +3 class skill
Climb +32 = +13 ranks, +8 Str, +3 class skill, +8 extra mods
Escape Artist +23 = +0 ranks, +7 Dex, +16 extra mods
Knowledge (dungeoneering) +18 = +13 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Knowledge (planes) +18 = +13 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +28 = +13 ranks, +4 Wis, +3 class skill, +8 extra mods
Sense Motive +20 = +13 ranks, +4 Wis, +3 class skill
Stealth +23 = +13 ranks, +7 Dex, +3 class skill
Swim +32 = +16 ranks, +8 Str, +8 extra mods

The Omox has the Aquatic subtype, so Swim is a class skill and all skill bonuses are correct as listed in the book.

And even if the Omox didn't have it from the subtype, it could have it as the fourth varied-nature class skill from Outsider type.


Demon, Shemhazian, page 80

Not an error, but a personal opinion: shouldn't the pincer attacks have the Grab ability?
They are described and depicted as mantis pincers, and the primary quality of mantis pincers is the ability to grab (both in the Pathfinder RPG and in the real world).


Demon, Vrolikai, page 81

Death-Stealing Gaze's text doesn't specify if it is a Fort or Will save. Of course negative levels are most often associated to Fort, but nothing says they can't be Will, sometimes.


Destrachan, page 83

Maybe Perception should be listed as "Perception +19 (+27 to hear)", since Perception can be used for all perceptive sense, and listing it as a whole +27 may be misleading.


Devil, Accuser, Handmaiden and Immolation, pages 84, 86, 87

All of them lack the See in Darkness special ability granted by the Devil subtype.


Devil, Handmaiden, page 86

1) Not properly an error, but its claws have a "19-20/x3" critical data; usually, when a creature has criticals different from "20/x2" on its own (read: not thanks to feats), it is stated as a special ability.
So I'm reporting because there's a slight chance that either that critical data wasn't meant to be there or that the related special ability hasn't been listed.

2) It gains a fly speed from its constant Fly spell-like ability, so the maneuverability should be good, rather than average as currently listed.
This also brings its Fly bonus to +18.

_____________________________________________

I just remembered that the Fly spell grants a bonus to Fly checks equal to half the caster level. The Handmaiden Devil has it, but these others do not: Maladaemon, Purrodaemon and Shemhazian Demon.

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Devil, Accuser, Handmaiden and Immolation, pages 84, 86, 87

All of them lack the See in Darkness special ability granted by the Devil subtype.

This may not be an error, since the devil subtype says:

"Some devils can see perfectly in darkness of any kind, even that created by a deeper darkness spell.

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Devil, Handmaiden, page 86

1) Not properly an error, but its claws have a "19-20/x3" critical data; usually, when a creature has criticals different from "20/x2" on its own (read: not thanks to feats), it is stated as a special ability.
So I'm reporting because there's a slight chance that either that critical data wasn't meant to be there or that the related special ability hasn't been listed.

2) It gains a fly speed from its constant Fly spell-like ability, so the maneuverability should be good, rather than average as currently listed.
This also brings its Fly bonus to +18.

_____________________________________________

I just remembered that the Fly spell grants a bonus to Fly checks equal to half the caster level. The Handmaiden Devil has it, but these others do not: Maladaemon, Purrodaemon and Shemhazian Demon.

Oh boy...

I've asked about this more times than I can remember with no official response, but it seems the monsters that use a constant fly spell-like ability can't seem to agree on how it should be calculated. The first question that came up was should they treat it as a class skill since it comes from a spell effect, but I believe I settled on yes since the only stipulation about Fly as a class skill was the monster has to have a listed fly speed.

Then, if you look at the Fly skill, it says:

"A creature with a natural fly speed receives a bonus (or penalty) on Fly skill checks depending on its maneuverability"

Does that mean those who use a fly spell to fly get that too? The fly spell itself doesn't mention that the creature gets a +4 bonus to its Fly skill (since the spell always bestows a maneuverability of good), just the 1/2 CL bonus.

If fly doesn't grant a maneuverability bonus, then the Handmaiden is correct as written: 7 (Dex) + 7 (1/2 CL) = Fly +14

The Meladaemon would be correct if Fly weren't a class skill, but since it has a fly speed, fly spell-like ability or not it should get it as a class skill, and so would be +22.
6 (Dex) + 5 (1/2 CL) - 2 (size) + 10 (ranks*) = 19 (+3 from class skill)
*(this creature puts full ranks [14] into all its skills except Heal, Fly, and UMD, which it splits its last 28 ranks amongst as 8, 10, and 10 respectively) Also note that as mentioned earlier, this creature too should have its maneuverability changed from average to good.

Purrodaemon's all kinds of screwed up, the only way its skill points work as written is if:
1) it treats Diplomacy or Survival as its last chosen class skill (these are the only ones that don't need to be, but might be).
2) It treats Fly as a class skill, which it does here.
3) It DOESN'T get the 1/2 CL bonus to Fly.
4) It DOES get the maneuverability bonus to Fly.
It seems the Purrodaemon was calculated as having a natural flight instead of a spell-like ability flight. If it were to go by the Handmaiden's fly calculations, it would actually be:
6(Dex) + 2(ranks) + 9(1/2 CL) - 2(size) + 3(class) = Fly +18
UNLESS Diplomacy or Survival were a class skill, then:
6(Dex) + 5(ranks) + 9(1/2 CL) - 2(size) + 3(class) = Fly +21

Shemhazian is similar. It only works as written as long as you DON'T take into account the 1/2 CL and you DO factor in a maneuverability bonus. If it were calculated like the Handmaiden, it would be:
4(Dex) + 7 (1/2 CL) - 6(size) = Fly +5


Many errors in this book. Thank you all for this. I hope Paizo releases errata soon. I can't buy the hardcover until the second printing so I can get the errors fixed.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Strife2002 wrote:

Does that mean those who use a fly spell to fly get that too? The fly spell itself doesn't mention that the creature gets a +4 bonus to its Fly skill (since the spell always bestows a maneuverability of good), just the 1/2 CL bonus.

They get the bonus from maneuverability in any single case, from what can be seen doing the math of stat-blocks, natural speed or not.

The Fly spell tells what it gives more, less or anyway different than normal, but if it doesn't state anything against the maneuverability bonus, then it is applied as normal.

Anyway I think the official answer is "yes, the half CL bonus of the Fly spell must be applied for monsters with Fly as a constant spell-like ability, but we forgot to add it in most stat blocks". It is something that can be easily forgotten, so I suppose it was, indeed, in most cases. Also, I don't see why it shouldn't be added. Personal opinion, of course.

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:
Strife2002 wrote:

Does that mean those who use a fly spell to fly get that too? The fly spell itself doesn't mention that the creature gets a +4 bonus to its Fly skill (since the spell always bestows a maneuverability of good), just the 1/2 CL bonus.

They get the bonus from maneuverability in any single case, from what can be seen doing the math of stat-blocks, natural speed or not.

The Fly spell tells what it gives more, less or anyway different than normal, but if it doesn't state anything against the maneuverability bonus, then it is applied as normal.

Anyway I think the official answer is "yes, the half CL bonus of the Fly spell must be applied for monsters with Fly as a constant spell-like ability, but we forgot to add it in most stat blocks". It is something that can be easily forgotten, so I suppose it was, indeed, in most cases. Also, I don't see why it shouldn't be added. Personal opinion, of course.

The use of the word "natural" just threw me off. It made it sound like it applied to any creature that could fly constantly with either an extraordinary, supernatural, or perhaps even a constant spell-like ability to fly.

Until I get a confirmed response on this, I'll take your advice under suggestion and just assume as you say that both recipients of a fly spell and creatures that can employ a constant fly spell-like effect are subject to both the maneuverability bonus and the 1/2 CL bonus.

It's just nutty to me that magical flight will always yield a higher Fly skill than "natural" fliers.

Guess I need to go trolling through the bestiaries and leave notes in all flyer entries.

Grand Lodge

the cythnigot on page 221 also got missed on its constant fly spell-like ability

Grand Lodge

Thulgant - p. 226

Another one, but it doesn't have a 1/2 CL bonus OR a maneuverability bonus factored into its Fly skill.

What's weirder is that this creature lists a constant fly spell-like ability but doesn't list its fly speed (which WOULD be fly 60 ft. [good]). By rules as written, this creature WOULD NOT get Fly as a class skill unless it happened to choose it as one of its 4 class skills that outsiders get.


Devilfish, page 88

Listed DC for Unholy Blood is 16, but should be 15, as per the poison (10, +2 for 1/2 HD, +3 Con).

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