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Dark Archive Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

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qlippoth, Thulgant p. 226, all saves off & CMD incorrect

Fort 21 = 12 +9
Ref 26 = 12 + 12 + 2 Lightning Reflexes
Will 20 = 12 + 8

SB says Fort +25, Ref +30, Will +18

CMD = 10 + BAB + StrMod + DexMod + SizeMod + ACBonus

55 = 10 + 20 +8 + 12 + 1 + 4

SB says CMD 51


Draconal (pg 18) CMD should be 57 (10, +24 BAB, +13 Str, +2 Dex, +1 size, +1 dodge, +6 insight).

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Sceaduinar p. 239, unused skills points

skill points = 63
used = 54

Escape Artist +14 = +6 ranks, +5 Dex, +3 class skill
Fly +9 = +0 ranks, +5 Dex, +4 extra mods
Intimidate +12 = +6 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Knowledge (nature) +10 = +6 ranks, +1 Int, +3 class skill
Knowledge (planes) +17 = +9 ranks, +1 Int, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Perception +17 = +9 ranks, +2 Wis, +3 class skill, +3 extra mods
Sense Motive +14 = +9 ranks, +2 Wis, +3 class skill
Stealth +25 = +9 ranks, +5 Dex, +3 class skill, +8 extra mods

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Sceaduinar p. 241, unused skills points

skill points = 180
used = 178

Acrobatics +34 = +20 ranks, +11 Dex, +3 class skill
Bluff +26 = +20 ranks, +6 Cha
Fly +35 = +21 ranks, +11 Dex, +3 class skill
Knowledge (nature) +25 = +17 ranks, +5 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +29 = +20 ranks, +6 Wis, +3 class skill
Sense Motive +26 = +20 ranks, +6 Wis
Stealth +26 = +20 ranks, +11 Dex, +3 class skill, -8 extra mods
Swim +39 = +20 ranks, +8 Str, +3 class skill, +8 extra mods
Use Magic Device +26 = +20 ranks, +6 Cha

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Shining Child p. 245, unused skills points

skill points = 128
used = 116

Bluff +26 = +16 ranks, +7 Cha, +3 class skill
Diplomacy +23 = +13 ranks, +7 Cha, +3 class skill
Fly +11 = +0 ranks, +3 Dex, +8 extra mods
Intimidate +23 = +13 ranks, +7 Cha, +3 class skill
Knowledge (arcana) +18 = +13 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Knowledge (planes) +21 = +16 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +25 = +16 ranks, +0 Wis, +3 class skill, +6 extra mods
Spellcraft +18 = +13 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Use Magic Device +23 = +16 ranks, +7 Cha

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Slurk p. 251, skill points issue

I had to use way too many ranks for Acrobatics. Acrobatics seems way too high.

skill points = 2
used = 11

Acrobatics +16 = +11 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill
Climb +10 = +0 ranks, +2 Str, +8 extra mods
Escape Artist +6 = +0 ranks, +2 Dex, +4 extra mods

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chopswil wrote:

Slurk p. 251, skill points issue

I had to use way too many ranks for Acrobatics. Acrobatics seems way too high.

skill points = 2
used = 11

Acrobatics +16 = +11 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill
Climb +10 = +0 ranks, +2 Str, +8 extra mods
Escape Artist +6 = +0 ranks, +2 Dex, +4 extra mods

wonder if acrobatics should be +6 (1 rank, +2 dex, +3 class skill)

And since I've not said it, thanks for doing all the work on these Chopswill.

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Matthew Morris wrote:

wonder if acrobatics should be +6 (1 rank, +2 dex, +3 class skill)

And since I've not said it, thanks for doing all the work on these Chopswill.

no problem

just a thought, I know space is at a premium but if you could write the skill as Acrobatics +6:1, where the number after the colon is the rank.


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chopswil wrote:
chopswil wrote:

Nightshade, Nightcrawler p. 200, all saves off by 2

HD 25
Fort 8 (poor) +6 = 14
Ref 8 (poor) + 0 = 8
Will 14 (good) +5 + 2 (iron will) = 21

SB: Fort +16, Ref +10, Will +23

ahh, nightshade gets +2 to all saves; my bad

Additionally:

hp: 25 Undead hit dice (4.5*25=113)+ Cha modifier per level (6*25=150) = 25d8+150=262
SB claims 25d8+200=312. That's correct, but +200 is not.


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chopswil wrote:

Ogrekin p. 204, minor typo

should be be Init +5 instead of Int +5

Additionally:

Skill points don't add up
Climb +9 = +1 ranks, +5 Str, +3 Class skill
Swim +9 = +1 ranks, +5 Dex, +3 class skill

SB lists both as +7, an impossible number.

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Soulbound Doll p. 255, no Statistics Heading

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Spider, Giant Black Widow p. 256, skill point issue

not sure how Climb can be +20 like SB says

skill points = 0 vermin

Climb +12 = +0 ranks, +4 Str, +8 extra mods
Perception +4 = +0 ranks, +0 Wis, +4 extra mods

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Spider, Giant Tarantula p. 256, many skill point issues

not sure how Climb can be +28 like SB says

skill points = 0 vermin

Climb +20 = +0 ranks, +12 Str, +8 extra mods
Perception +4 = +0 ranks, +0 Wis, +4 extra mods
Stealth -7 = +0 ranks, +1 Dex, -8 extra mods

Racial Modifiers need commas between them "+8 Climb+4 Perception+4 Stealth (+8 in webs)"

If racial mod for Stealth in webs is +8 and Stealth is normally -7 how can Stealth in web be -3?


Drakir2010 wrote:

Additionally:

Skill points don't add up
Climb +9 = +1 ranks, +5 Str, +3 Class skill
Swim +9 = +1 ranks, +5 Dex, +3 class skill

SB lists both as +7, an impossible number.

No armor check penalty?

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Tenebrous Worm p. 260,

missing comma between skills

Will is off by 2, missed Iron Will mod


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chopswil wrote:

Scylla p. 241, unused skills points

skill points = 180
used = 178

Acrobatics +34 = +20 ranks, +11 Dex, +3 class skill
Bluff +26 = +20 ranks, +6 Cha
Fly +35 = +21 ranks, +11 Dex, +3 class skill
Knowledge (nature) +25 = +17 ranks, +5 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +29 = +20 ranks, +6 Wis, +3 class skill
Sense Motive +26 = +20 ranks, +6 Wis
Stealth +26 = +20 ranks, +11 Dex, +3 class skill, -8 extra mods
Swim +39 = +20 ranks, +8 Str, +3 class skill, +8 extra mods
Use Magic Device +26 = +20 ranks, +6 Cha

Corrected the monster name when I quoted you.

Additionally: AC lists a Dex bonus of +12, however a Dex of 32 is only a +11 (I think this is also why the Fly skill requires more ranks than the Scylla has hit dice; it was calculated with a +12 Dex modifier)


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hogarth wrote:
Drakir2010 wrote:

Additionally:

Skill points don't add up
Climb +9 = +1 ranks, +5 Str, +3 Class skill
Swim +9 = +1 ranks, +5 Dex, +3 class skill

SB lists both as +7, an impossible number.

No armor check penalty?

Considered that. They're not listed as wearing armor.

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Toad, Giant p. 268 skill points issue, Stealth incorrect
forgot stealth size mod?

skill points = 3

Acrobatics +5 = +0 ranks, +1 Dex, +4 extra mods
Perception +8 = +3 ranks, -1 Wis, +3 class skill, +3 extra mods
Stealth +1 = +0 ranks, +1 Dex +4 racial mod - 4 large
Swim +12 = +0 ranks, +4 Str, +8 extra mods

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Glacier Toad p. 268 skill points issue, Swim incorrect
supposed to have swim speed? would give it +8

skill points = 7

Acrobatics +9 = +1 ranks, +1 Dex, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Perception +11 = +4 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +3 extra mods
Stealth +6 = +2 ranks, +1 Dex, +3 class skill
Swim +6 = +0 ranks, +6 Str


Zen79 wrote:

Sard, page 237:

the ranged thorn attack doesn't list a range increment, or am I missing something?
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Some of the reported issues aren't errors at all, and stem from a reader not noticing or remembering a key rule or ability that means the monster is actually correct as written.

...
If you notice something that looks like an error in the book, please verify to the best of your ability that it is an error--and if so, let us know about it here.

If this was a response to my question, I DID verify to the best of my humble abilities that it is an error. I couldn't find any default range increment or something.

I'm not a game designer, just a DM planning to use this monster in his campaign.

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Undine p. 275, incorrect Init

with Dex 14 Init should be +2

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Undine p. 275, skill points issues

If I add a rank to Knowledge (dungeoneering) it will add +4 due to class skill and make it +6, SB says +5.
Same basic issue for Ride, add rank , class skill +4 total +5, SB says +4

skill points = 24
used so far = 21

Intimidate +8 = +3 ranks, +2 Cha, +3 class skill
Knowledge (dungeoneering) +2 = +0 ranks, +2 Int
Knowledge (planes) +8 = +3 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Knowledge (religion) +8 = +3 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +7 = +3 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill
Ride +1 = +0 ranks, +1 Dex
Sense Motive +7 = +3 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill
Survival +7 = +6 ranks, +1 Wis

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Vampiric Mist p. 277, clarification

I'm guessing that Misty Form (Ex) means no CMD and CMD, maybe some verbiage there to make this clearer?

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Wendigo p. 281, unused skill points

everything seems to add up but there are points left over

skill points = 252
used = 240

Acrobatics +27 = +15 ranks, +9 Dex, +3 class skill
Bluff +28 = +18 ranks, +7 Cha, +3 class skill
Diplomacy +9 = +0 ranks, +7 Cha, +2 extra mods
Fly +33 = +15 ranks, +9 Dex, +3 class skill, +6 extra mods
Intimidate +29 = +15 ranks, +7 Cha, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Knowledge (arcana) +26 = +15 ranks, +8 Int, +3 class skill
Knowledge (geography) +26 = +18 ranks, +8 Int
Knowledge (nature) +26 = +18 ranks, +8 Int
Knowledge (religion) +26 = +18 ranks, +8 Int
Knowledge (planes) +29 = +18 ranks, +8 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +26 = +18 ranks, +5 Wis, +3 class skill
Sense Motive +26 = +18 ranks, +5 Wis, +3 class skill
Spellcraft +26 = +18 ranks, +8 Int
Stealth +26 = +18 ranks, +9 Dex, +3 class skill, -4 extra mods
Survival +23 = +18 ranks, +5 Wis

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Witchfire p. 284, minor formatting

semicolon between items not comma

"Defensive Abilities incorporeal, witchflame, Immune fire,
undead traits"

should be
"Defensive Abilities incorporeal, witchflame; Immune fire,
undead traits"


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chopswil wrote:

Spider, Giant Black Widow p. 256, skill point issue

not sure how Climb can be +20 like SB says

skill points = 0 vermin

Climb +12 = +0 ranks, +4 Str, +8 extra mods
Perception +4 = +0 ranks, +0 Wis, +4 extra mods

They have both a racial +8 and a +8 from climb speed. Add the +4 from Strength and you get 20.

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Drakir2010 wrote:
chopswil wrote:

Spider, Giant Black Widow p. 256, skill point issue

not sure how Climb can be +20 like SB says

skill points = 0 vermin

Climb +12 = +0 ranks, +4 Str, +8 extra mods
Perception +4 = +0 ranks, +0 Wis, +4 extra mods

They have both a racial +8 and a +8 from climb speed. Add the +4 from Strength and you get 20.

but having a climb speed gives you a +8 racial bonus.

are you saying there is an additional +8 racial?


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chopswil wrote:

Spider, Giant Tarantula p. 256, many skill point issues

not sure how Climb can be +28 like SB says

skill points = 0 vermin

Climb +20 = +0 ranks, +12 Str, +8 extra mods
Perception +4 = +0 ranks, +0 Wis, +4 extra mods
Stealth -7 = +0 ranks, +1 Dex, -8 extra mods

Racial Modifiers need commas between them "+8 Climb+4 Perception+4 Stealth (+8 in webs)"

If racial mod for Stealth in webs is +8 and Stealth is normally -7 how can Stealth in web be -3?

This is the same as the Giant Widow. (Saw your post above. Replying to it here) The +8 from having a climb speed is an inate racial bonus and is never explicitly spelled out in stat blocks. These two have an additional +8 racial bonus to their climb skill. (I realize that means stacking two like named bonusses.)

When not in a web, a Giant Tarantula has a +4 racial bonus to Stealth. When he's in a web, that racial bonus becomes +8 (it doesn't stack). That's why it goes from -7 to -3 in webs.


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Drakir2010 wrote:


This is the same as the Giant Widow. (Saw your post above. Replying to it here) The +8 from having a climb speed is an inate racial bonus and is never explicitly spelled out in stat blocks. These two have an additional +8 racial bonus to their climb skill. (I realize that means stacking two like named bonusses.)
When not in a web, a Giant Tarantula has a +4 racial bonus to Stealth. When he's in a web, that racial bonus becomes +8 (it doesn't stack). That's why it goes from -7 to -3 in webs.

That's the way I read it as well, and it makes sense. The fact they have a climb speed gives them a +8 bonus to climb. That's not a racial bonus. It's an inherent bonus (despite what it might be called, since you get it if you gain a climb speed via template etc).

The fact is, an 8-legged spider has a racial bonus as well, all those legs are designed to hook onto anything and hold it's weight up. So, an additional +8 based on the fact they are 8 Legged Freaks (loved that movie). I would always expect a spider to have a better climb than a monkey, for example, despite both having climb.


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chopswil wrote:

Undine p. 275, incorrect Init

with Dex 14 Init should be +2

Additionally:

Feat choice is illogical and illegal. Weapon Focus requires a BAB of +1, which a Cleric 1 does not have, and since he's wielding a trident, why would he focus on heavy mace?


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chopswil wrote:

Urdefhan p. 276, skill points issues

If I add a rank to Knowledge (dungeoneering) it will add +4 due to class skill and make it +6, SB says +5.
Same basic issue for Ride, add rank , class skill +4 total +5, SB says +4

skill points = 24
used so far = 21

Intimidate +8 = +3 ranks, +2 Cha, +3 class skill
Knowledge (dungeoneering) +2 = +0 ranks, +2 Int
Knowledge (planes) +8 = +3 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Knowledge (religion) +8 = +3 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +7 = +3 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill
Ride +1 = +0 ranks, +1 Dex
Sense Motive +7 = +3 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill
Survival +7 = +6 ranks, +1 Wis

Corrected the name and page number when I quoted you.

You haven't included the armour check penalty in your calculations, but things still don't add up.

If I set 4 "theme appropriate" class skills are Intimidate, Knowledge (Religion), Ride and Survival:

Intimidate +8 = +3 ranks, +2 Cha, +3 class skill
Knowledge (dungeoneering) +5 = +3 ranks, +2 Int
Knowledge (planes) +8 = +3 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Knowledge (religion) +8 = +3 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +7 = +3 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill
Ride +4 = +1 ranks, +1 Dex, +3 class skill, -1 ACP
Sense Motive +7 = +3 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill
Survival +7 = +3 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill

Which means only 22 of 24 skill points have been spent.


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chopswil wrote:

Witchfire p. 284, minor formatting

semicolon between items not comma

"Defensive Abilities incorporeal, witchflame, Immune fire,
undead traits"

should be
"Defensive Abilities incorporeal, witchflame; Immune fire,
undead traits"

Additionally:

CMB = +7 BAB
SB lists +13
Is there a rule I'm not aware of that lets incorporeal creatures calculate CMB using their Dexterity modifier? That would account for the difference.

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Drakir2010 wrote:
chopswil wrote:

Witchfire p. 284, minor formatting

semicolon between items not comma

"Defensive Abilities incorporeal, witchflame, Immune fire,
undead traits"

should be
"Defensive Abilities incorporeal, witchflame; Immune fire,
undead traits"

Additionally:

CMB = +7 BAB
SB lists +13
Is there a rule I'm not aware of that lets incorporeal creatures calculate CMB using their Dexterity modifier? That would account for the difference.

yep

"It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to its melee attacks, ranged attacks, and CMB"

Contributor

Zen79 wrote:
If this was a response to my question, I DID verify to the best of my humble abilities that it is an error. I couldn't find any default range increment or something.

It wasn't a response to you, it was a response to certain other posts in this thread that the poster has to redact because they forgot a relevant rule.


OK.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

The Umbral Dragon has cleric spells. In 3.5 certain dragons could do this, but it is listed as an exception to the rules. Are these specific spells exception or can it learn any cleric spells?

The specific spells I noticed are destruction and harm.

The Cloud Dragon also has control weather. I understand it fits thematically, but there is no rule listing what other spells it should be able to choose.


Page 95, Ancient Brine Dragon.

Under spell-like abilities it is listed as having tsunami 3/day but brine dragons do not get that spell-like ability until they become a great wyrm (as described on page 94).


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Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Zen79 wrote:
If this was a response to my question, I DID verify to the best of my humble abilities that it is an error. I couldn't find any default range increment or something.
It wasn't a response to you, it was a response to certain other posts in this thread that the poster has to redact because they forgot a relevant rule.

Sean,

I don't know about my fellow posters, but this thread for me is serving as a bit of a proving ground for a stat-generator I've been working on for quite a while now. Rest assured that every time you point out to us the more obscure rules we're overlooking, those rules are going into the generator and won't come up again (Subtype giant's free class skills comes to mind as an example).


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chopswil wrote:
Drakir2010 wrote:
chopswil wrote:

Witchfire p. 284, minor formatting

semicolon between items not comma

"Defensive Abilities incorporeal, witchflame, Immune fire,
undead traits"

should be
"Defensive Abilities incorporeal, witchflame; Immune fire,
undead traits"

Additionally:

CMB = +7 BAB
SB lists +13
Is there a rule I'm not aware of that lets incorporeal creatures calculate CMB using their Dexterity modifier? That would account for the difference.

yep

"It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to its melee attacks, ranged attacks, and CMB"

Where is that from? I can't see it in either the Incorporeal subtype description or the Witchfire's bestiary page.

The Exchange

Universal Monster Rules for Incorporeal monster ability.

It's one of the downsides to having rules scattered in multiple locations. It'd be alright if the entirety of the rule was in multiple locations but its only a piece here and a piece there.


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d20pfsrd.com wrote:

Universal Monster Rules for Incorporeal monster ability.

It's one of the downsides to having rules scattered in multiple locations. It'd be alright if the entirety of the rule was in multiple locations but its only a piece here and a piece there.

*facepalm* Yet another error I won't make again... :)


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Worm That Walks p. 286

Has 5 cantrips prepared. A wizard never has more than 4 cantrip slots. Being a specialist does not grant an extra slot.

skill points = 104
used = 107

Craft (Alchemy) +21 = +13 ranks, +5 Int, +3 class skill
Fly +20 = +13 ranks, +4 Dex, +3 class skill
Intimidate +16 = +16 ranks, +0 Cha (is this supposed to be made class?)
Knowledge (arcana) +21 = +13 ranks, +5 Int, +3 class skill
Knowledge (dungeoneering) +21 = +13 ranks, +5 Int, +3 class skill
Knowledge (the planes) +21 = +13 ranks, +5 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +22 = +13 ranks, +1 Wis, +8 racial bonus
Sense Motive +9 = +1 Wis, +8 racial bonus
Spellcraft +21 = +13 ranks, +5 Int , +3 class skill
Stealth +12 = +4 Dex, +8 racial bonus

Additionally, CMD seems wrong:

CMD: 26 = 10 + BAB (6) + Str (-1) + Dex (4) + insight (2) + racial bonus (4) + Dodge (1)
SB says 24.

Lastly, hit points seem off.

hp: 113 = first level wizard hit die (6) + 12 normal wizard hit dice (3.5*12=42) + Con per hit die (3*13=39) + favoured class bonus (13) + toughness (13). This would read as 13d6+65
SB says 123= 13d6+78

Contributor

Drakir2010 wrote:
I don't know about my fellow posters, but this thread for me is serving as a bit of a proving ground for a stat-generator I've been working on for quite a while now. Rest assured that every time you point out to us the more obscure rules we're overlooking, those rules are going into the generator and won't come up again (Subtype giant's free class skills comes to mind as an example).

Sure, but

(1) Those are things you could learn by reading the book.
(2) They're things I've already run into with my spreadsheet that we've been using since 12/2008.
(3) When you post an error, I have to go look it up and verify that my information is correct, and in the case of issues where you post that something is an error and someone else posts that it's not an error, it means I'm wasting time checking errors that aren't errors. This thread is turning into "do an entire development pass on every monster in the book, again."

So maybe you can see why this gets me frustrated.

(And mind you, I haven't checked any of these issues posted Friday or later, as I've been busy trying to get all of Ultimate Magic over to the editors and don't have time to re-check my files on every single monster right now.)


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This is why I think it would be good to have two tiers of threads. One where the posters try to hash out if something is correct or not, and one where once everyone gives up and thinks something is wrong, they post it to the "hey Sean, none of us can seem to see how this adds up" then you aren't going over every single conversation, only the ones that communally people throw their hands up in the air and say "yeah we aren't sure how that got like that"

So one thread is "the fans try to figure it out" and the other is "they couldn't, among themselves, determine how something happened so now the question graduates to the "no really, we don't get it" thread.

just my 2 cents.

Contributor

Yes, that would be very helpful! To me, at least. ;)


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jreyst wrote:

This is why I think it would be good to have two tiers of threads. One where the posters try to hash out if something is correct or not, and one where once everyone gives up and thinks something is wrong, they post it to the "hey Sean, none of us can seem to see how this adds up" then you aren't going over every single conversation, only the ones that communally people throw their hands up in the air and say "yeah we aren't sure how that got like that"

So one thread is "the fans try to figure it out" and the other is "they couldn't, among themselves, determine how something happened so now the question graduates to the "no really, we don't get it" thread.

just my 2 cents.

Simple and elegant.

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Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Yes, that would be very helpful! To me, at least. ;)

new thread created.

Sean, nothing to see here, move along.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Renamed this thread for clarity... it might take a while for everyone to see that, though.

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to all who posted here...
if you still think your original error post is valid please repost on the other thread please

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chopswil wrote:

to all who posted here...

if you still think your original error post is valid please repost on the other thread please

If I'm correctly understanding the point of the other thread, you shouldn't repost there until other posters have had a chance to examine and debate your post here (or if you're reporting an obvious typo instead of a stat block error). Only after several other posters agree that you've found a stat block error should you repost it in the other thread.

(If people just repost stat block errors in the other thread without waiting for a second opinion here, we run the risk of the second thread also getting relabeled "possible errors" and ignored.)

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